Driver to drive?

[Eeyore]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:40:33 +0100) it happened Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
49009AF1.493247A2@hotmail.com>:

And 3dB is easily corrected with a graphic equaliser no?

Graphics are crap. It's like trying a crappy way to fix something that's
fundamentally broken.

Care to tell me why graphic equalisers are crap?
I wrote one that seems to work just fine (actually copied some of that code
from xine).

Do you want me to write a lecture ?


Graham

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:40:02 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote

How about flatness in the audio band ?

absence of content

JF

Did you have something useful to contribute or were you simply dumbstruck by a very
simple question ?

---
More than likely I just thought the question wasn't worth answering.

So you'd be happy with the -3dB @ 20Hz and 20kHz of the 60s and 70s ?

---
Still isn't.

Isn't what you POS ?

---
Isn't worth answering, poopy-head!

JF

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:38:55 +0100) it happened Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
<4900B6AF.7DA24572@hotmail.com>:

So you'd be happy with the -3dB @ 20Hz and 20kHz of the 60s and 70s ?

Graham

As you cant hear the quality difference anyway,
why not???
Oh I forgot those people with VULCAN ears, who can hear
the difference beween oxygen content in cables.......
or gold plated mains sockets.....

Whilst your examples are inderd absurd, a flat frequency repsonse is not.

I work in pro-audio - you don't.

So far so good.

I hear things you can't.

That remains to be seen, 'hearing' is for the largest part the processing in the brain.
Now that makes me wonder ....

To me you're simply a deaf cunt

Now it gets really bad, dinner was burned?

and competely irrelevant.

You decisively won the unpopularity contest again.

Graham

I wonder, if any of your customers put up with all that.
You are not involved in sales I guess.

Sales person: Our engineer says: "To me you're simply a deaf cunt and competely irrelevant.'
That will do it.
Print it on the front of your amps.
LOL

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:44:33 +0100) it happened Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
<4900B801.9A549911@hotmail.com>:

Piezos are shit. Check their voltage input.

Graham

Yes they are not hifi.
But I bought them for acoustic experiments, like chasing away rabbits.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:45:27 +0100) it happened Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
<4900B836.BBE4003D@hotmail.com>:

Care to tell me why graphic equalisers are crap?
I wrote one that seems to work just fine (actually copied some of that code
from xine).

Do you want me to write a lecture ?

No, just simply answer the question,
maybe I can use your input to improve the code.
Maybe not....

 

[Eeyore]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:38:55 +0100) it happened Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
4900B6AF.7DA24572@hotmail.com>:

So you'd be happy with the -3dB @ 20Hz and 20kHz of the 60s and 70s ?

Graham

As you cant hear the quality difference anyway,
why not???
Oh I forgot those people with VULCAN ears, who can hear
the difference beween oxygen content in cables.......
or gold plated mains sockets.....

Whilst your examples are inderd absurd, a flat frequency repsonse is not.

I work in pro-audio - you don't.

So far so good.

I hear things you can't.

That remains to be seen, 'hearing' is for the largest part the processing in the brain.
Now that makes me wonder ....

To me you're simply a deaf cunt

Now it gets really bad, dinner was burned?

and competely irrelevant.

You decisively won the unpopularity contest again.

Graham

I wonder, if any of your customers put up with all that.
You are not involved in sales I guess.

Sales person: Our engineer says: "To me you're simply a deaf cunt and competely irrelevant.'
That will do it.
Print it on the front of your amps.

Well, I'm in high demand in the audio sector (amongst others).

There must be SOME reaon for that whether it it be my intellect, hearing or both.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:44:33 +0100) it happened Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
4900B801.9A549911@hotmail.com>:

Piezos are shit. Check their voltage input.

Graham

Yes they are not hifi.
But I bought them for acoustic experiments, like chasing away rabbits.

Jolly Good.

 

[Eeyore]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:45:27 +0100) it happened Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
4900B836.BBE4003D@hotmail.com>:

Care to tell me why graphic equalisers are crap?
I wrote one that seems to work just fine (actually copied some of that code
from xine).

Do you want me to write a lecture ?

No, just simply answer the question,
maybe I can use your input to improve the code.
Maybe not....

You're a twat.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:40:02 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote

How about flatness in the audio band ?

absence of content

JF

Did you have something useful to contribute or were you simply dumbstruck by a very
simple question ?

---
More than likely I just thought the question wasn't worth answering.

So you'd be happy with the -3dB @ 20Hz and 20kHz of the 60s and 70s ?

---
Still isn't.

Isn't what you POS ?

---
Isn't worth answering, poopy-head!

You've been reduced to that level have you ?

Yes, a GREAT way to denigrate a superior designer. Let's see how many believe you since AFAIK
you never desisigned a commercial audio power amp that can regulsrly be found on ebay.

Graham

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:48:32 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:40:02 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote

How about flatness in the audio band ?

absence of content

JF

Did you have something useful to contribute or were you simply dumbstruck by a very
simple question ?

---
More than likely I just thought the question wasn't worth answering.

So you'd be happy with the -3dB @ 20Hz and 20kHz of the 60s and 70s ?

---
Still isn't.

Isn't what you POS ?

---
Isn't worth answering, poopy-head!

You've been reduced to that level have you ?

---
I always have to dumb down the conversation when you're on the other end
in order to keep you afloat.
---

Yes, a GREAT way to denigrate a superior designer.

---
It certainly doesn't apply to the likes of you, then, does it?
---

Let's see how many believe you since AFAIK
you never desisigned a commercial audio power amp that can regulsrly be found on ebay.

---
Nor would I have wanted to since I've been fortunate enough, over the
length of my career, to have designed equipment for anti-submarine
warfare, electronics countermeasures, oceanography (including deep-sea
probes and shipboard instrumentation), data communications, and on and
on instead of having been stuck doing the same thing year in and year
out with maybe something interesting happening every six months or so.

Variety and new challenges are what keep me going, but if being tied to
a single "discipline" is what floats your boat, then go for it and don't
worry about what people think.


JF

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:24:51 +0100) it happened Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
<4900C173.B86C3FA6@hotmail.com>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:45:27 +0100) it happened Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
4900B836.BBE4003D@hotmail.com>:

Care to tell me why graphic equalisers are crap?
I wrote one that seems to work just fine (actually copied some of that code
from xine).

Do you want me to write a lecture ?

No, just simply answer the question,
maybe I can use your input to improve the code.
Maybe not....

You're a twat.

Graham

So you have no clue!
I am beginning to think John Lurkin's remarks about you are correct.
You do not deliver when it gets real.

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Eeyore wrote:

I don't disagree with you overall Kevin. I keep a little trick up my
sleeve with power amps that changes the game somewhat and eliminates
any such 'expenses'. However it's absurdly obvious (when you think
about it) and consequently couldn't be patented I'm sure and the
moment the 'secret' gets out everyone will be doing it. It's
insanely simple too. You just have to have the wits to think of it.

Note, as in the mosfet 1000, basically a stolen idea from Hitachi.
The second stage is a diff pair. This diff pair has less distortion
inherently. Don't know why D.Self don't use it in his Blameless amp.
Keep everything differential is one of my mottos.

Ditto. It's crazy to throw away that advantage.


The current mirror load gives the prior
post mentioned push/pull drive to the output buffer. The current
source loads (CMFB) on the 1st stage, rather than resisters, makes
the total LF loop gain, truly huge, making LF distortion, vanishing
small.

Indeed so. Mind you, I actually *limited* my LF gain because it was
so huge already ! It didn't need any more. THD didn't start to climb
on the 1200B design until about 2-3 kHz. Knowing what I do now, I'm
sure I could do better than that. This was 20 years ago you know.

Yeah, I was only a young pup at 21 in 1982. Obviously the err.. new bit in
the mosfet 1000 was err.. my idea to include the extra emitter follower
buffer from the hitachi design. It took me 3 weeks to realise this rather
obvious bit, for subtle reasons. Like:

Consider adding more and more output devices. Say the nchan is 600pf gate
souce, with 40pf gdrain. So, ignore the 40pf as an approximation. Now actual
capacitance is approx Cgs/(gmRL) and now inconvieniantly forget that the
approximation is now suspect with this new value. Now mentally keep adding
|| devices without actually doing the bloody sums...like oh.. gm goes up
with cap.. so er..net cap stays the same...me thinks, so drive current and
gain loading stays the say, ...f&**S*&^% forgot the approximation of Cgd now
fails and keeps adding on right on up there...


Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.blonddee.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

[Kevin Aylward]

John Larkin wrote:

"Pro" audio design seems like an infinite chain of stolen circuits.

Lets not kid ourselves, "all" circuits are stolen, whatever the
field. Its that simple. Show me *any* design, and I will show you a
bit of is in a prior design.

With the qualifier "a bit of", sure. So there are now, and never have
been, any original circuits.


Like diff pairs, current mirrors, cascodes, are all the same
building blocks we all use. However, designing say a cmos opamp,
even with a standard topology, can take considerable time in getting
just the right combination of W, L and M to satisfy a particular
specification.

The only way to make production designs reliable, is to use what is
already known to work, and only add the minimal of new additions.

To get extreme performance, and to sell things for big multiples of
cost, you have to do something new and take some risks. The risks
should be concentrated only in the places where there is payoff. The
scut stuff, power supplies and firmware and cooling and simple
controls, should indeed be as low risk as possible.

YES.

Incremental fiddling of existing technology is a good way to get
bare-survival levels of margin, and even that takes luck.

YES

That's what being
an engineer is. Maximising profit with the minimum of RISK.

There are two variables in that relationship, not one. Moderate risk
could produce big profits. Everything fun is risky.

Like shagging you best mates wife...indeed.

There are no
brownie points for a novel circuit that achieves no net advantage.
All new design is based on modifications of existing design.

Yours, maybe. Not mine. I hate to copy circuits, even my own.

I don't. I will use anything if it works,and can be shown to be reliable.


Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.blonddee.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Sjouke Burry wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote
How about flatness in the audio band ?
absence of content

JF
Did you have something useful to contribute or were you simply
dumbstruck by a very simple question ?
---
More than likely I just thought the question wasn't worth answering.

So you'd be happy with the -3dB @ 20Hz and 20kHz of the 60s and 70s ?

Graham

As you cant hear the quality difference anyway,
why not???

Of course you can tell 3db at 20khz, unless your 50 and death..shit...I'm
50....

ohh and not deaf...

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.blonddee.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Eeyore wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
"Kevin Aylward" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

I don't disagree with you overall Kevin. I keep a little trick up
my sleeve with power amps that changes the game somewhat and
eliminates any such 'expenses'. However it's absurdly obvious
(when you think about it) and consequently couldn't be patented
I'm sure and the moment the 'secret' gets out everyone will be
doing it. It's insanely simple too. You just have to have the
wits to think of it.

Graham

Note, as in the mosfet 1000, basically a stolen idea from Hitachi.
The second stage is a diff pair. This diff pair has less distortion
inherently. Don't know why D.Self don't use it in his Blameless
amp. Keep everything differential is one of my mottos. The current
mirror load gives the prior post mentioned push/pull drive to the
output buffer. The current source loads (CMFB) on the 1st stage,
rather than resisters, makes the total LF loop gain, truly huge,
making LF distortion, vanishing small.

Kevin Aylward

"Pro" audio design seems like an infinite chain of stolen circuits.

Lets not kid ourselves, "all" circuits are stolen, whatever the
field. Its that simple. Show me *any* design, and I will show you a
bit of is in a prior design. Like diff pairs, current mirrors,
cascodes, are all the same building blocks we all use.

But these are simply 'prior art', not actually 'stolen'.

Oh f&^%. Not you as well... I was speaking metaphorically.The idea is that
there is f&^%. all that is orginal, unless its randam

See link (I cited in other post as well),
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/replicators/intelligence.html

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.blonddee.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

[Kevin Aylward]

John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:41:16 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
kaExtractThis@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

"Pro" audio design seems like an infinite chain of stolen circuits.

Lets not kid ourselves, "all" circuits are stolen, whatever the
field.

---
Not true.

Yes it is, but I truly don't have the time to through this all over again..
Have a read of
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/replicators/intelligence.html, especially at
the end of the page.

In the dim recesses of time, an idea flashed into being which was
unique and was fleshed out electromechanically into our being here,
now, so _that_ circuit wasn't stolen.

On a more mundane level, some of us work through the problems of
design without resorting to directly infringing the work of others,
whether that prior work exists or not.

No. See link above.


Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.blonddee.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Eeyore wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

makes my amps faster and a lot more stable. Your amp (the one you
never built) has a couple of wimpy current sources driving 10 fets
in parallel;

No its doesn't. Its a push/pull class AB current drive to the
mosfets, and secondly, you don't need much. 20ma class drive is way
more than enough for at least 500w at 200Khz power BW.

I thought he was wrong about that. I confess I didn't look it up
again at the time but my 1200B does exactly the same as your approach
Kevin.

Graham

Indeed. ALWAYS use full push pull source and sink. Resisters and current
sources are just not as good. The exception is probably when you are doing
extremely fast comparators when its a good idea to never let currents cut of
to zero. The difference in these cases is that the amp is designed for non
clipping use, the comparators for clipping!

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.blonddee.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:57:47 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:44:33 +0100) it happened Eeyore

Piezos are shit. Check their voltage input.

Yes they are not hifi.
But I bought them for acoustic experiments, like chasing away rabbits.

If you want to keep rabbits out of your garden, then have the family use
a chamber pot, and pour its contents (liquid only!) around the perimeter
of the garden - it sends an odor signal: "Large Carnivore Lives Here!"

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:45:27 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:40:33 +0100) it happened Eeyore

And 3dB is easily corrected with a graphic equaliser no?

Graphics are crap. It's like trying a crappy way to fix something
that's fundamentally broken.

Care to tell me why graphic equalisers are crap? I wrote one that seems
to work just fine (actually copied some of that code from xine).

Do you want me to write a lecture ?

Oh, please. Is there any way to stop you? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:24:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

You're a twat.

Pot-Kettle-Black?

Cheers!
Rich