Driver to drive?

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 08:50:48 -0800, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 01:09:21 -0800, Greegor wrote:

Fine irked them off by pointing it out. California had to pass an
ex-post-facto law making it legal retroactively.

What about Article 1, sections 9, and 10, of the US Constitution?

Google "retroactive tax".

>Calder v. Bull notwithstanding.

Rather a different issue.

 

[Fred Abse]

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 12:09:36 -0500, krw wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 08:50:48 -0800, Fred Abse
excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 01:09:21 -0800, Greegor wrote:

Fine irked them off by pointing it out. California had to pass an
ex-post-facto law making it legal retroactively.

What about Article 1, sections 9, and 10, of the US Constitution?

Google "retroactive tax".

What was described was not a tax.

--
"Design is the reverse of analysis"
(R.D. Middlebrook)

 

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 11:28:49 -0800, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 12:09:36 -0500, krw wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 08:50:48 -0800, Fred Abse
excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 01:09:21 -0800, Greegor wrote:

Fine irked them off by pointing it out. California had to pass an
ex-post-facto law making it legal retroactively.

What about Article 1, sections 9, and 10, of the US Constitution?

Google "retroactive tax".

What was described was not a tax.

Are taxes not authorized by laws?

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 12/31/2013 10:34 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Greegor wrote:

[snip]

But why the United Nations?

They need to concentrate on things like conflict-free diamonds. I bought
one for the wife, but she still picks fights.


Next time buy a bigger one.

Bigger wife?

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
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[Maynard A. Philbrook Jr.]

In article <zZGdndlXbPWX41nPnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
paul@hovnanian.com says...

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 12/31/2013 10:34 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Greegor wrote:

[snip]

But why the United Nations?

They need to concentrate on things like conflict-free diamonds. I bought
one for the wife, but she still picks fights.


Next time buy a bigger one.

Bigger wife?

Now now....

Jamie

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 1/1/2014 3:46 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 12/31/2013 10:34 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Greegor wrote:

[snip]

But why the United Nations?

They need to concentrate on things like conflict-free diamonds. I bought
one for the wife, but she still picks fights.


Next time buy a bigger one.

Bigger wife?

Your call. Next time get the extended warranty.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(Married for 30 years to the same woman, and liking it)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:48:36 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 1/1/2014 3:46 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 12/31/2013 10:34 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Greegor wrote:

[snip]

But why the United Nations?

They need to concentrate on things like conflict-free diamonds. I bought
one for the wife, but she still picks fights.


Next time buy a bigger one.

Bigger wife?

Your call. Next time get the extended warranty.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(Married for 30 years to the same woman, and liking it)

Married to the same woman for just shy of 54 years and liking it. Pick
someone you _like_, and make sure you like her mother as well >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Don Y]

Hi Mike,

On 12/29/2013 3:34 PM, Mike Perkins wrote:

On 24/12/2013 23:53, Don Y wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 11:28:01 -0700, Don Y<this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Are there any tools (interactive or batch) that will
accept a high resolution scan (this shouldn't matter!)
and produce a "normalized" Gerber photoplot format
(that I can subsequently post-process) from existing
films or an actual (bare) board?

What I want is to get to valid gerbers and, from there,
rebuild the connectivity map (netlist) and, eventually,
schematic.

Many years ago I recall a package that could rebuild a netlist from a
Gerber. Not sure if this is the one though, or if it can accept other
formats associated with scans:

http://numberone.com/intellgerber.asp

Yes, this looks like it does the "back end" of the process.
But, it expects a "gerber" as inputs. I.e., there's already
some connectivity information present in the photoplot file.
It doesn't appear that it would be able to take a "bitmap"
(e.g., TIFF) and deduce the connectivity from that -- essentially
build a gerber from a TIFF. Then, the netlist from the gerber.

But, it looks promising! I will DL their trial if only to see
how well it does what it actually does do!

Thanks!
--don

 

[Mike Perkins]

On 02/01/2014 17:37, Don Y wrote:

Hi Mike,

On 12/29/2013 3:34 PM, Mike Perkins wrote:
On 24/12/2013 23:53, Don Y wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 11:28:01 -0700, Don Y<this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Are there any tools (interactive or batch) that will
accept a high resolution scan (this shouldn't matter!)
and produce a "normalized" Gerber photoplot format
(that I can subsequently post-process) from existing
films or an actual (bare) board?

What I want is to get to valid gerbers and, from there,
rebuild the connectivity map (netlist) and, eventually,
schematic.

Many years ago I recall a package that could rebuild a netlist from a
Gerber. Not sure if this is the one though, or if it can accept other
formats associated with scans:

http://numberone.com/intellgerber.asp

Yes, this looks like it does the "back end" of the process.
But, it expects a "gerber" as inputs. I.e., there's already
some connectivity information present in the photoplot file.
It doesn't appear that it would be able to take a "bitmap"
(e.g., TIFF) and deduce the connectivity from that -- essentially
build a gerber from a TIFF. Then, the netlist from the gerber.

But, it looks promising! I will DL their trial if only to see
how well it does what it actually does do!

Thanks!
--don

Pleasure, although I know of some who have used this package I haven't
myself.

It used to be very popular and I guess still has a loyal following.

Some time ago, I wrote a program that converted from various plotter
formats. I know very little about the TIFF format, but there are such a
plethora of free programs out there, I'm sure a search will come up with
some conversion software that you need.

--
Mike Perkins
Video Solutions Ltd
www.videosolutions.ltd.uk

 

[Greegor]

I thought that Fred Abse was pointing out
that states are NOT supposed to pass
ex-post-facto or retroactive laws.

US Article 1 Section 10:
No State shall pass any [...] ex post facto Law

Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. 386 (1798),[1] is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court examined its authority to review state legislature decisions.

Dr. Fine exposed a widespread and systemic
corruption in California. How did the
"double dipping" pay arrangement come to
exist in the first place?

It's strange and improper because of the way
it can bias Judges.

Judges are supposed to avoid even the
appearance of impropriety.

 

[Greegor]

krw > I was pointing out that the government
krw > has, long ago, passed the point of caring
krw > what the Constitution clearly says.

Tragically so.
Legal sophistry has become commonplace.

 

On Fri, 3 Jan 2014 02:24:50 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com>
wrote:

I thought that Fred Abse was pointing out
that states are NOT supposed to pass
ex-post-facto or retroactive laws.

I was pointing out that the government has, long ago, passed the point
of caring what the Constitution clearly says. There are *many* cases
of ex post facto tax laws.

US Article 1 Section 10:
No State shall pass any [...] ex post facto Law

Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. 386 (1798),[1] is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court examined its authority to review state legislature decisions.

Dr. Fine exposed a widespread and systemic
corruption in California. How did the
"double dipping" pay arrangement come to
exist in the first place?

As I read it, the "law" was directing the courts to review that
particular case, which is *not* ex post facto.

It's strange and improper because of the way
it can bias Judges.

Judges are supposed to avoid even the
appearance of impropriety.

Not issues relevant to this discussion.

 

[No News]

On 27/12/2013 21:19, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:

In article <ucudnW0jjZ5tVyDPnZ2dnUVZ7rSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
news@nulstep.plus.com says...

About a week ago Don Kuenz asked a question about relays.

Does anyone in here consider a relay to be an active device?
A 1-liner on why, or why not, would probably be interesting.
More if you feel like it!

Thanks!

just think about what constitutes an ACTIVE device!

Jamie

I know what *I* think 'active' means, but I would like to know what
practising EEs think.

By a narrow margin I think that you are a "yes".

 

[No News]

On 28/12/2013 16:04, Don Kuenz wrote:

An entry for "active device" is missing from my _IEEE Standard
Dictionary_. _The Art of Electronics_ mentions, in passing, "The
transistor is our most important example of an 'active' component."
That's it. My textbooks also contain no definition so it seems that one
must use the Inet to find a working definition.

Indeed! These are the reasons for my question.

An active device is any type of circuit component with the
ability to electrically control electron flow (electricity
controlling electricity).

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html

Thanks for this. Unfortunately they go on:

'for a circuit to be properly called electronic,
it must contain at least one active device.'

and I disagree!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivity_%28engineering%29

is worth reading. It complicates the topic, but there are some good
points on the Talk page.

A relay certainly controls electron flow as much as a transistor switch.
As mentioned previously, _The Art_ says that a transistor is an active
component. Ergo, my vote on the matter is also, "Yes."

I would say so too, FWIW; others would demur.

I will start another thread rather than hijack yours.

 

[No News]

On 27/12/2013 21:22, Joe Gwinn wrote:

In article <ucudnW0jjZ5tVyDPnZ2dnUVZ7rSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, No News
news@nulstep.plus.com> wrote:

About a week ago Don Kuenz asked a question about relays.

Does anyone in here consider a relay to be an active device?
A 1-liner on why, or why not, would probably be interesting.
More if you feel like it!

Thanks!

Relays are not usually considered to be active devices. Even though
they do have significant power gain, they are binary.

However, one can make electromechanical analog amplifiers.

There is some uncertainty about the meaning of 'active'.

The more usual definition is that they are electron devices, which
includes tubes and semiconductors (holes being honorary electrons for
the purpose). This covers most applications, but ...

What about such things as parametric amplifiers?

Ah! I hadn't thought of those. Lasers & masers too, I suppose.
The essence is "power gain", so they probably need not be electronic.

I will start a new thread.

Cheers!

 

[Greegor]

Chances are, you have a 12V coil.

The relay case clearly says 24V. It
surprises me that a mere 11 VDC
energizes it.

Wasn't there a "rule of thumb" for
voltage rating relays yourself?

I seem to recall 1.5 times the voltage
that barely actuates it, but it could
have been double just for reliability.

How did they figure the top end of
the voltage range?

I seem to recall some relays marked
with resistance and a current but
no voltage specified.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 1/4/2014 12:27 AM, No News wrote:

On 27/12/2013 21:19, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
In article <ucudnW0jjZ5tVyDPnZ2dnUVZ7rSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
news@nulstep.plus.com says...

About a week ago Don Kuenz asked a question about relays.

Does anyone in here consider a relay to be an active device?
A 1-liner on why, or why not, would probably be interesting.
More if you feel like it!

Thanks!

just think about what constitutes an ACTIVE device!

Jamie

I know what *I* think 'active' means, but I would like to know what
practising EEs think.

By a narrow margin I think that you are a "yes".

Carson's "High Frequency Amplifiers" (great RF book btw) defines an
active circuit as one that can amplify power or oscillate continuously.

Active vs. passive is a property of a circuit, rather than just a
device. It's usually defined in a small signal context, or at least
referring to small perturbations around a steady state situation (as in
a class-C amplifier). A given device operated at a given bias can
easily be active at one frequency and passive at another.

"Active device" is a much vaguer term, IIUC, and means something like "a
device capable of amplifying or oscillating under some circuit
conditions". I normally think of this in small-signal terms, so I'd
say that a relay is passive, but other folks will probably point out
that it's easy to make a relay oscillate by having it switch its own
coil, like a buzzer, or to switch some much larger signal.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-01-04, Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

Chances are, you have a 12V coil.

The relay case clearly says 24V. It
surprises me that a mere 11 VDC
energizes it.

Wasn't there a "rule of thumb" for
voltage rating relays yourself?

I seem to recall 1.5 times the voltage
that barely actuates it, but it could
have been double just for reliability.

How did they figure the top end of
the voltage range?

A bit less than what melts it? *


(*)
or degrades plastic parts too quickly etc
at max rated ambient temperature




--
For a good time: install ntp

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

Em segunda-feira, 13 de novembro de 2000 03h00min00s UTC-5, Aleksandar Veselinovic escreveu:

I'm trying to make my first PCB, but I have problem finding proper
footprints. Is there any standardized footprint for:

1. 78L05 --- voltage stabilizer

2. potentiometer---
| P
+-+
| |
| |<----
| | 5k
+-+
|
I was told to use footprint that looks like:
+--+
| o|
| o|
|o |
+--+
but don't know dimensions...
?

I would appreciate your help...

Greetings,
Aleksa

--
Aleksandar Veselinovic <alexa/cliffhanger.com
Public key: http://solair.eunet.yu/~aleksav/alexa.asc
Fingerprint = FF7E B09A 50B7 6E5F 6E65 B063 AECA C850 50ED 11BB
NOTE: remove .X. before replying

Hi, Aleksa[ander].
LM78L05 is a TO-92 (as it if was a common signal transistor. See datails, please, at: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/ThePowerSupply/imagesP79/P79Fig39.gif). I do not know EDA you are using, but, in gEDA, I use POT__CTS_296X-Series (NewLib FootPrint, not M4) as a mid-size Pot.
Anything, you can ask me and I will try to answer; Best regards,
Morvan

 

[Don Y]

Hi Mike,

On 1/2/2014 11:45 AM, Mike Perkins wrote:

Pleasure, although I know of some who have used this package I haven't
myself.

It used to be very popular and I guess still has a loyal following.

Some time ago, I wrote a program that converted from various plotter
formats. I know very little about the TIFF format, but there are such a
plethora of free programs out there, I'm sure a search will come up with
some conversion software that you need.

TIFF is essentially a compressed bitmap. So, not a straightforward
conversion to a vector-oriented format (which I think is true of
most plotter formats, e.g. Gerber) where they are actually trying
to "steer" a marking element (aperture) around a surface.

[Of course, that's not to say there aren't algorithms to do exactly
this sort of conversion]

I think what makes Gerber to netlist/schematic much easier is
that you already have the connectivity implicit in the "motions"
of the plotter (i.e., if it never goes to a certain (x,y), then
there is no connection to the object located at that (x,y)!)

Thanks, I'll investigate (busy trying to finish up "year end"
stuff... always too much to get done in too short of a window!)

--don