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Shirley you mean Romneycare?
Don't call me Shirley!
No, I meant Obamacare.
We have a healthcare problem, Obamacare is not the solution.
Yes, but he compromised (as usual) and went with the Republican plan.
Of course, it stopped being the Republican plan then.
Lying doesn't help your case. That obviously never stops lefties,
though.
On 10/24/2013 9:39 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 05:19:50 -0700, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
..snip...excellent detail, but still required by AIOE
Did I answer your question?
Do you have any comments?
Mikek
Interesting facts flying around here. People are spending more than
their food budget on betting they won't get sick. Laws in place to
enrich insurance companies [not medical service providers], and
encourage people to save [that's good, but also not good, since people
can dip into that cash pool the same way govt has dipped into the SS
pool] Ok, ok, companies and banks can make profits, as long as *I* come
out ahead, I don't care, right?
Can't find the post, but someone said 160,000 policies cancelled in CA
[a Democratic Party controlled state] and in Florida [an RP controlled
state(?)] It appears that even though YOU can choose to keep your old
insurance policy you may not be able to. and working the numbers in CA,
if those polices are at least $520/mo each that represents 'lost'
revenue of $1B per year!!, which is a serious chunk of change, even to
an insurance firm. And Florida too? But, more! One has to ponder the
significance of a firm willing to cut off that much income, throw it out
for competitors to be able to grab, realizing these companies have the
business sense to understand that by cancelling all these policies they
will somehow come out better in the finals.
After all these, apparently more expensive, plans are signed up for;
[understanding 'individual' policies cannot be cancelled] is there any
provision in the ACA to prevent cancellation across a broad plain of
holders, or prevention of increases, also across a broad plain?
Justified by the whining. "We just can't afford to do this, help us
govt"? It seems a reasonable scenario to expect an industry that already
has the ear of the govt to continue in that vein.
..snip...excellent detail, but still required by AIOE
Could you explain that to me? I suspect some internet organization.
The companies below are dropping hundreds of thousands from coverage.
Probably 1,000,000 people just in this list. I'm sure there are more, I
only gabbed the first Google hit.
What is the chance that the these are low profit or no profit
producing customers?
What is the chance those dropped are sicker people?
What is the chance those dropped are likely to sign up for Obamacare?
Is it good for Obamacare to get the sicker people?
Since the companies are dropping the sicker people will Obamacare make
the insurance companies more profitable?
Should I buy insurance stock now?
Insurance companies dropping customers.
Florida Blue is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80
percent of its individual policies in the state.
Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people,
about half of its individual business.
Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its
individual market customers.
Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is
dropping about 45 percent.
KHN said Blue Shield of California sent about 119,000 cancellation
notices out in mid-September, about 60 percent of its individual business.
..snip...excellent detail, but still required by AIOE
Could you explain that to me? I suspect some internet organization.
The companies below are dropping hundreds of thousands from coverage.
Insurance companies dropping customers.
...snip...
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:36:17 -0700, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
..snip...excellent detail, but still required by AIOE
Could you explain that to me? I suspect some internet organization.
I used to use google, groups, which I liked. then google 'improved' their
groups, causing me to use a workaround that wasn't too bad, but slowing
down access to almost 60 minutes to just scan through six usenet groups -
On 25/10/2013 6:02 a.m., krw@attt.bizz wrote:
Shirley you mean Romneycare?
Don't call me Shirley!
No, I meant Obamacare.
We have a healthcare problem, Obamacare is not the solution.
Yes, but he compromised (as usual) and went with the Republican plan.
Of course, it stopped being the Republican plan then.
Lying doesn't help your case. That obviously never stops lefties,
though.
Where do you think Obamacare came from? Are you aware of what Romney
instituted in Mass.?
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:16:24 -0700, RobertMacy
robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:36:17 -0700, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
..snip...excellent detail, but still required by AIOE
Could you explain that to me? I suspect some internet organization.
I used to use google, groups, which I liked. then google 'improved' their
groups, causing me to use a workaround that wasn't too bad, but slowing
down access to almost 60 minutes to just scan through six usenet groups -
I'm beginning to hate Google.
On 24/10/2013 7:40 a.m., amdx wrote:
I went back and read what I wrote, yes I did use copay, when I meant
deductible. Odd for me because I haven't paid a copay for over 6 years,
because of my high deductible.
I know you want to defend Obamacare, but using my misplaced word is
not going to make Obamacare any better.
Shirley you mean Romneycare?
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l495hl$jq1$1@dont-email.me...
On 10/23/2013 1:20 PM, NotMe wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l4902t$fdb$1@dont-email.me...
I saw Obama on TV, he has ask that we tell others what Obamacare has
meant
me.
I has meant my insurance premium has went up by 44.4% in the last
17 months. I will see the next increase in May 2014.
I checked on the price of Obamacare, the silver plan
is comparable in price, but the copay is about $2000 higher
then the $10,000 copay I have.
Note the low priced policy I had, increased to be as expensive as
Obamacare.
Seems to me you should be shopping insurance. I have interest in a
number
of small businesses. Our cost have gone up but not nearly (by half) what
they have over the past 20+ years.
I don't believe you have a health insurance policy that increased less
than 50% in 20+ years. MY BCBS is up 44.5% in 17 months.
I had more to say but, you need to qualify and defend such a wild story.
I'm very interested in your response.
Not one policy but many via multiple small businesses. Granted we shopped
carefully to the point of getting to know the agents and the underwriters.
To be specific the increases in the previous 10 years were on the order of
10%/ year, in the past 3 were 4%.
This year we received various rebates
under the 80% rule.
Some I know personally who are basically self employed or did not have
employer based insurance have likewise done better in the past two years or
so.
On 23/10/2013 19:30, amdx wrote:
On 10/23/2013 12:53 PM, Jim Whitby wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:15:00 +0000, F.O.A.D. wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
I saw Obama on TV, he has ask that we tell others what Obamacare has
meant me.
I has meant my insurance premium has went up by 44.4% in the last
17 months. I will see the next increase in May 2014.
I checked on the price of Obamacare, the silver plan
is comparable in price, but the copay is about $2000 higher then the
$10,000 copay I have.
Note the low priced policy I had, increased to be as expensive as
Obamacare.
Mikek
Bullshit.
It is probably true if you have a health insurance policy that never
pays out unless you are missing several major limbs at the same time!
Now that's an interesting and really informative comment!
I wonder how you know so much about someone's insurance. Did you write
the policy for him or steal his mail or ???.
Sounds like typical liberal stuff. Can't compete on facts, so start name
calling.
You might be able to afford a Ł10k hit and most professionals probably
could too, but do you not think that the poor deserve access to
healthcare or do you prefer to step over them as they die in the gutte
America is a great place to be healthy, wealthy and fit, but lose any
one of these key components and you will surely lose *all* the others.
I was just on the Obamacare site, They have a new box that you can
click to get prices without signing up. Before you get the prices there
are seven pages with a note telling you that the price doesn't reflect
the price because you may qualify for a subsidy, 7 pages telling you
this! Then when you get the price for the plan, they don't tell you
how high your deductible is.
Why, because for most people the large deductibles are earth shaking!!!!
For years when I told people I had a $10,000 deductible they always
thought it was terrible, I thought it was the best plan. Now Obamacare
has found, they huge deductibles to keep the premiums from being
completely unworkable. And even then they need to subsidize the premiums
for most.
Mikek
We have a problem, Obamacare is not the answer.
Are Americans really so overweight, unfit and hypochondriachal that the
only way you can offer universal healthcare is to have insanely high
deductables that most working class people cannot possibly afford?
Most of the ROW manages with deductables ranging from Ł100 to Ł5000
depending on what you want to opt in for. European health insurance
typically gives you the option to PAYG for small items and then caps the
drugs cost for long term conditions at Ł200 pa or thereabouts.
The whole purpose of a universal healthcare system is that you pay in to
have the services available and be glad if you never need them.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 05:19:50 -0700, amdx wrote:
..snip...excellent detail, but still required by AIOE
Did I answer your question?
Do you have any comments?
Interesting facts flying around here. People are spending more than their
food budget on betting they won't get sick. Laws in place to enrich
insurance companies [not medical service providers], and encourage people
to save [that's good, but also not good, since people can dip into that
cash pool the same way govt has dipped into the SS pool] Ok, ok, companies
and banks can make profits, as long as *I* come out ahead, I don't care,
right?
Can't find the post, but someone said 160,000 policies cancelled in CA [a
Democratic Party controlled state] and in Florida [an RP controlled
state(?)] It appears that even though YOU can choose to keep your old
insurance policy you may not be able to.
and working the numbers in CA, if
those polices are at least $520/mo each that represents 'lost' revenue of
$1B per year!!, which is a serious chunk of change, even to an insurance
firm. And Florida too? But, more! One has to ponder the significance of a
firm willing to cut off that much income, throw it out for competitors to
be able to grab, realizing these companies have the business sense to
understand that by cancelling all these policies they will somehow come
out better in the finals.
After all these, apparently more expensive, plans are signed up for;
[understanding 'individual' policies cannot be cancelled] is there any
provision in the ACA to prevent cancellation across a broad plain of
holders, or prevention of increases, also across a broad plain? Justified
by the whining. "We just can't afford to do this, help us govt"? It seems
a reasonable scenario to expect an industry that already has the ear of
the govt to continue in that vein.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 18:42:25 +1300, Gib Bogle wrote:
On 24/10/2013 9:19 a.m., amdx wrote:
On 10/23/2013 2:17 PM, Gib Bogle wrote:
On 24/10/2013 7:40 a.m., amdx wrote:
On 10/23/2013 1:16 PM, fredbloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:12:58 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
Okay, so you don't know the difference between a copay and a
deductible, that makes you ignorantly unreliable.
I went back and read what I wrote, yes I did use copay, when I meant
deductible. Odd for me because I haven't paid a copay for over 6 years,
because of my high deductible.
I know you want to defend Obamacare, but using my misplaced word is
not going to make Obamacare any better.
Shirley you mean Romneycare?
Don't call me Shirley!
No, I meant Obamacare.
We have a healthcare problem, Obamacare is not the solution.
Yes, but he compromised (as usual) and went with the Republican plan.
Of course, it stopped being the Republican plan then.
Lying doesn't help your case. That obviously never stops lefties,
though.
On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 06:56:21 -0700, dagmargoo... wrote:
...snip.....
Obamacare forces you to buy "insurance" for all your everyday
medical needs, *guaranteeing that you'll need it*, adding four
layers of middlemen, and making it in everyone's interest to
consume as much as possible so they get back at least *something*
from all their forced contributions.
I did catch the false sense of 'cost' by having the govt give a sense of
cheapness by providing 'rebates'. But, costs are still costs.
Interesting point about how care will be used. Wish I'd seen that. You are
correctly pointing out that after paying in, the consumer wants something,
some service, something tangible, and therefore will tend towards
frivolously using the system. That is a major flaw in incentives. It's a
fact that improperly placed 'incentives' distort.
To 'correct' that distortion, how about do NOT pay in, reasonable
deductibles, small copays? Then the incentive would be don't use but once
threshold is reached; still pay a bit, so there is incentive to NOT use
the system, unless necessary. But that doesn't lend itself to 'preventive'
care. For preventivecare, need the sense that *IF* you don't participate,
you've lost something and cannot accumulate that something, simply lost.
By attaching copay rates to evidence of preventation, [as in, participate
in prevention program, copay is low. Don't participate in prevention,
copay is high. But that's much like what people are doing now - don't go
to a doctor til deathbed. Still to get people to take part in
preventioncare, need the sense of getting something for free and not doing
so, miss out on something of value, a right] could further encourage
people to take care of themselves.
Ok, now you've solved the 'consumer' side of medicine.
One big item missed here, is the importance of alternative care which is
sometimes more effective. yet, ACA is set up to help obtaining only
traditional medicine. That's a tough one to sort out.
Whatever is supplied, how do you propose to lower/control costs on the
'supply' side?
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:59:57 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:
Charlie E. wrote:
Bob,
Just out of curiousity, is that before or after the subsidy?
After.
Ok, so your actual premium probably went up big time, but the
government is 'making up' for the difference - i.e. stealing from the
taxpayer to make you feel like you got a bargain. What was the
difference in the pre-subsidy premium!
...snip.....
Obamacare forces you to buy "insurance" for all your everyday
medical needs, *guaranteeing that you'll need it*, adding four
layers of middlemen, and making it in everyone's interest to
consume as much as possible so they get back at least *something*
from all their forced contributions.
Cheers,
James Arthur
...snip...
Just a couple of those ideas turns the whole thing around.
If you let 315 million people choose what works best for
them billions of times a day, they quickly optimize anything.
Medical care could easily cost half of what it does today.
Cheers,
James Arthur
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:02:48 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 18:42:25 +1300, Gib Bogle wrote:
On 24/10/2013 9:19 a.m., amdx wrote:
On 10/23/2013 2:17 PM, Gib Bogle wrote:
On 24/10/2013 7:40 a.m., amdx wrote:
On 10/23/2013 1:16 PM, fredbloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:12:58 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
Okay, so you don't know the difference between a copay and a
deductible, that makes you ignorantly unreliable.
I went back and read what I wrote, yes I did use copay, when I meant
deductible. Odd for me because I haven't paid a copay for over 6 years,
because of my high deductible.
I know you want to defend Obamacare, but using my misplaced word is
not going to make Obamacare any better.
Shirley you mean Romneycare?
Don't call me Shirley!
No, I meant Obamacare.
We have a healthcare problem, Obamacare is not the solution.
Yes, but he compromised (as usual) and went with the Republican plan.
Of course, it stopped being the Republican plan then.
Lying doesn't help your case. That obviously never stops lefties,
though.
Besides it not being true. Romneycare was a crap plan, and
the reason there wasn't much reason to vote for R over O.
Meanwhile, MAians love it, but wonder why their rates skyrocketed,
wait times are up to ~26 weeks to get a new internist, and their
Gov. is having to raise taxes to pay for it (aka, 'dole').
(They haven't figured out cause and effect yet--the delay confuses
them. Next, they'll figure out what causes babies.)
On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 11:09:22 -0700, <dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com> wrote:
...snip...
Just a couple of those ideas turns the whole thing around.
If you let 315 million people choose what works best for
them billions of times a day, they quickly optimize anything.
Medical care could easily cost half of what it does today.
Cheers,
James Arthur
Open pricing policies.
Interesting concept, as in "Shine a bright light on it. If it should
exist, it will flourish. If it should NOT exist, it will wither and die"
Plus, people will start asking WHAT?! how can THAT simple such-and-such
cost THAT much?
Nice concept, make the 'pressures' of a free economy regulate the pricing.
So requires competition and the flow of truthful information.
On 10/23/2013 1:16 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:12:58 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
Okay, so you don't know the difference between a copay and a deductible, that makes you ignorantly unreliable.
I went back and read what I wrote, yes I did use copay, when I meant
deductible. Odd for me because I haven't paid a copay for over 6 years,
because of my high deductible.
I know you want to defend Obamacare, but using my misplaced word is
not going to make Obamacare any better.