Driver to drive?

Rich Grise · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:26:50 -0500, Chuck Harris wrote:

Stuart Brorson wrote:
....
* pkg-config. Pkg-config is a configuration utility which reports
back info about what compile and load flags should be set when
building a package. It is not new, nor specific to any distribution.
It's used by configure and make when doing a build. I think it was
introduced by the gtk folks themselves. Here's an example
run, for a totally random package, openssl:

[sdb@localhost /etc]$ pkg-config openssl --cflags
-I/usr/kerberos/include

It returns the compiler flag -I/usr/kerberos/include, which tells gcc
where to find my kerberos/include stuff.

Pkg-config should live on your system too. It calls the gtk2 stuff
"gtk+-2.0", and returns the following:

[sdb@localhost /etc]$ pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --cflags
-I/usr//include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr//lib/gtk-2.0/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0
-I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr//include/glib-2.0
-I/usr//lib/glib-2.0/include

Try that out on your system too. You should get a similar result.

Pkg-config does live on my system, but it does nothing interesting
because there are no .pc files on my RH9 system. AFAIK there never were.
I have compiled numerous packages, and gEDA is the first I have found
that requires pkg-config. Further, your detection of gtk2 is the only
package in gEDA that ./configure misses. Until I built my first version
of gEDA, PKG_CONFIG_PATH wasn't even set on my machine. (I cannot prove
it, but I don't think it is set by any RH9 system)

Here's part of why I don't like Redmond^H^H^H^HHat:
richgrise@thunderbird:/opt/gEDA/Source/glib-2.4.8
$ cat /etc/slackware-version
Slackware 10.0.0
richgrise@thunderbird:/opt/gEDA/Source/glib-2.4.8
$ uname -a
Linux thunderbird 2.4.26 #6 Mon Jun 14 19:07:27 PDT 2004 i686 unknown unknown GNU/Linux
richgrise@thunderbird:/opt/gEDA/Source/glib-2.4.8
$ find / -name "*.pc" -print 2> /dev/null | wc
120 120 4470
richgrise@thunderbird:/opt/gEDA/Source/glib-2.4.8
$ ls -l /var/log/packages/gtk*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10282 2004-06-26 09:13 /var/log/packages/gtk+-1.2.10-i386-3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 45775 2004-06-26 09:13 /var/log/packages/gtk+2-2.4.3-i486-1
richgrise@thunderbird:/opt/gEDA/Source/glib-2.4.8

I'd never heard of .pc files until I stumbled onto this thread, and I've
been a Slacker for a number of years.

But I have heard that Redmond^H^H^H^HHat changes configurations from what
works out of the box, such that you have to use Redmond^H^H^H^HHat RPM's
or it won't install right. There are Slack precompiled packages, or at
least they come with an install script that results in a binary and
configs that are the same as if you'd run ./configure, make, and install
from source. From what I've heard, RH doesn't do it that way. They modify
everything.

This is much too close to the Gates of hell for comfort, for me.

Thanks,
Rich

Robert Baer · Jan 17, 2005

Kevin wrote:

Hi Group,

Let me pick your collective brains to see if I'm on the right track
here:

The situation:
I'm designing a microcontroller-based data logger (don't yawn...yet)
that will interface to a piece of equipment and keep track of when
certain events occur. These details are kept in microcontroller ram
and must be maintained even through power loss / daily shutdown
without corruption or loss of data.

Microcontroller is the ever popular PIC16LF628A (Nanowatt/low voltage)
using the 4 MHz Internal RC oscillator. I also plan to use a 32.768
KHz watch crystal to drive Timer1 so that the PIC can periodically
wake and check if power has returned and resume normal operation. I
need to preserve data in the PIC's ram during a power failure but due
to reliability concerns I think powering the PIC from battery during
loss of power is the safest solution versus using EEPROM etc.

I plan to power the PIC16LF628A using power from both the machine
(tapping into 12VDC power and regulating that to 3.3V for
power/charging) as well as a rechargeable lithium 3V battery (see
crude ASCII schematic below):

1N5817
IN4001 3.3V Reg Schottky Diode
12V *--->|---+----[LM2950-3.3]--->|-----------+------+----- To PIC VDD
from | | | |
equipment | | | |
| | \ | +
| | 390 / |
==== 220uF | Ohms \ ==== 33uF
16V | / 6V
==== | | ==== Electrolytic
| | Panasonic ----- |
| | ML1220 battery --- |
| | 17 mAH 3V | |
| | | |
GND *--------+---------+----------------------+------+
from
equipment

1. Any recommendation for the Schottky diode? (through hole package -
no SMD parts). I'm thinking of something with a low Vf (so far the
best I've come up with is a 1N5817 - approx 0.4V) but are there any
other concerns I should be aware of?
The battery spec sheet mentions the charging voltage range should be
2.8V to 3.2V to achieve the rated mAH capacity. (I am pretty close to
the low side of this range as 3.3 - 0.4 = 2.8V). If I could use a
diode with a lower Vf it would help raise the charging voltage.

2. Although it's not on the schematic above I plan to detect whether
12V is present via an 4n25 optoisolator & zener diode ("power fail
signal") to determine whether power is failing/failed (and if so go to
sleep). As stated above the PIC will periodically wake from sleep and
check if power has returned (so it can continue monitoring). This
sounds reasonable, right?

3. Should I be concerned about leakage from the 1N5817 diode when 12V
is absent and the PIC is on battery power? If this leakage is a
problem then what other charging circuit design should I use? I'd like
to keep things simple and use only fairly common inexpensive parts
(nothing that you couldn't get from Digikey). Similarly, would leakage
from the 33uF cap pose a problem?

4. Another thing I'm concerned about is battery life regarding
charge/discharge cycles. The battery specs list these as 1000 cycles.
Now the application shouldn't even remotely come close to draining the
battery in daily usage but I'm just wondering about this. (I
understand that the datasheet is probably on the conservative side).
An alternative might be one of those large close-to-a-farad supercaps
but again I don't know how long the PIC will run off of one of these.

5. Because the PIC Vdd voltage is 3.3v input PIC pins will no longer
be to TTL specs in terms of voltage levels, correct?

6. Finally, is there anything I might have missed with regards to low
power design? (Already checked PIClist.com & read Microchip's "Power
Managed Tips N Tricks" app note (41200B).

Thanks for your assistance.

Kevin.

1) There are no decent diodes with a lower Vf. Germanium diodes are a
bit lower, but the leakage is a killer. And a tunnel rectifier has
almost zero volts Vf, but the reverse is nasty: like a forward biased
diode.
Put a diode in the ground leg of the regulator, to raise the output
voltage about 600mV. Granted the regulation is worse and temperature
sensitive, but those may be acceptable tradeoffs.
3) Select that diode for low leakage at the highest temperature "of
interest"; that may or may not force you to use a standard silicon diode
- hence the suggestion in #1 above.
The capacitor leakage needs to be tested; get various brands and
series in each brand. Try 16V or 25V capacitors once a lowest leakage
one is found - it may or may not help.
It has been too long since i have done this; the better ones 20 years
ago may not qualify now as manufacturing methods have changed so much.
5) Obviously, the signal outputs of any logic device cannot be higher
than its supply (if TTL like output). However, some are designed to
allow up to 5V in with a 3.3V supply, and "open collector" outputs can
go higher - depending on the process brekdown specs.

j.b. miller · Jan 17, 2005

I've given up trying to fix monitors. ANything out of warranty isn't worth a
penny and the really new ones only have SMT on board. The garbage guys just
left with 10 SVGA types, all 15 or 17".
Sign of the times.
As to TVs, heck I don't even bother taking a look. the rest of the consumer
stuff is the same. hace 2 'offshore,what isn't ?) DVD players, less than 1
year old(90 day war), both need new transports. Let's see $30 for the parts,
$50 for labour,$20 taxes and some gas = $100. For $50 you can get another
New DVD player with 'more features', OK, more landfill.....Ok I've
ranted....
Some things just aren't worth fixin'..

Rhyanon · Jan 17, 2005

Slow learners, eh?

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news

an.2005.01.15.16.19.37.381893@att.bizzzz...

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:01:34 -0600, Rhyanon wrote:

No. We didn't start this little Xpost affaire, but we will certainly
stay on
until you are all thoroughly cowed. You will learn your place.

We're going to be here a while. I'll get the popcorn.

--
Keith

Kevin · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:50:21 GMT, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@earthlink.net> wrote:

Put a diode in the ground leg of the regulator, to raise the output
voltage about 600mV. Granted the regulation is worse and temperature
sensitive, but those may be acceptable tradeoffs.

I forgot about this trick, thanks!

If I use this trick will a schottky work for the ground lead diode?
The battery charging voltage range must be 2.8 to 3.2v (any higher and
it'll cause battery deterioration).

So I'm thinking about using a 3v regulator (instead of a 3.3v one)
with a schottky diode in the ground path (which will raise voltage
about 0.4v) then another schottky diode for the regulator output
(drops about 0.4v) so the charging voltage should be close to 3v.

Assuming both schottky diodes shift approx the same with temperature
changes the reg output voltage should still be the same (yeah, that's
probably a big if). Still, once the output voltage doesn't cross 3.2v
things should be OK.

Spehro Pefhany · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 04:00:31 -0800, the renowned mike
<spamme0@netscape.net> wrote:

I'm too lazy to look up the spec. Don't all recent PICs have flash memory?
Does the thing have to log while the power is off? If not, might think
about using a super-cap.

Another possibility the OP should look at is to tack an external
serial (I^2C or SPI) FRAM memory onto the micro. Fast write,
nonvolatility without batteries or long write cycles, and a lot more
storage capacity than the very limited PIC RAM.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

John Woodgate · Jan 17, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Kryten <kryten_droid_obfusticator@
ntlworld.com> wrote (in <siRGd.591$nP2.511@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net&gt

about
'Cambridge (UK) engineer seeking job and home in Cambridge', on Mon, 17
Jan 2005:

Mind you, if there's a permie job not in the town itself, I can
relocate.

There may be something keeping you in Cambridge, but if not, I'd say 'Go
North, young android!' (;-) Prices 50% lower. Salaries maybe lower, by
not by as much.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Rick Thompson · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:00:24 GMT, "Kryten"
<kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Hi all.

I'm currently looking for new work and accommodation in Cambridge UK.

Recent contract work finished and looking for work in mainly digital / some
analogue.
Have recently designed a PC104 RS232 board, and a small Bell202 modem.
Have designed with CPU/MPU up to c. 20 MHz so far, some VHDL experience.
Low/medium complexity stuff, but the spectrum of jobs in Cambridge stretches
into the high-end stuff like designing custom silicon chips.

Job market and the economy finally seems to be recovering from 9/11.
In 1999 I got 4 interviews/week, in 2002 things had all but dried up.
Anyone else agree/disagree?

Should be easy to get a job in Cambridge, though not as a contractor.
Things have been pretty good for the last couple of years, but you're
a bit short of experience for contracting (sorry!). Try the Cambridge
Network site (www.cambridgenetwork.co.uk) for starters. There's at
least one hi-tech agency covering Cambridge (www.ecmselection.co.uk),
but employers will prefer it if you go direct.

Looking for accommodation too. So far Ł70/week seems the lowest price for
one room in shared house, and rather depressing houses at that (mouldy smell
in hall, cracking lino in kitchen, grubby beds).

Anyone got any tips/experiences on good places to look?

Arbury has a reputation as the worst bit.
Cost rockets approaching the centre.

You'd be crazy to get a room in Arbury. Anything off Mill Road should
be the same price, and would be much better. There used to
half-a-dozen letting agencies on Regent St. - just walk up and down
it.

Forget about paying Ł70/wk, though. It's 10 years since I've been in
shared houses, but 300-400 pcm was the going rate then. There's an alt
Cambridge newsgroup somewhere - ask in there.

My secondary job is on Clifton Road industrial estate so I don't want to be
too far from that.
Somewhere on the south-east side of Cambridge would be preferable,
I can provide my own desk/bed/chair etc.
I have no car yet so needs to be cycling distance.

Best places: anywhere near the river, Mill Rd (cheap/ethnic), nothern
side - (Milton Rd, exc. Arbury, nr the Science Park). South-east is
too far from anywhere.

Rick

Rick Thompson · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:08:42 +0100, Rene Tschaggelar <none@none.net>
wrote:

Na, it is not 9/11 over here. It the endless export
of jobs to cheaper places. Since the jobs apparently
prefer cheaper places, they didn't come back yet.
I tend to think they're gonna stay there until we
also drop the costs to compete again. Lets devaluate
our currency down to 10% or so.

Cambridge is IP-driven and, IMO, has seen very little off-shoring. The
only exception I'm aware of is some digital IC verification which has
gone to Bangalore, but I would be surprised if this was more than 20
jobs. A bigger problem is, I think, offshoring to the US. Companies
get taken over, and the jobs eventually go with them.

I'm not sure that 9/11 made any difference at all here. The economy
here has been on a high for the last 12 to 18 months. The next
downturn is already here, but most people think it should be pretty
minimal.

Rick

Leon Heller · Jan 17, 2005

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:e4pnu0pbf4dgqvg0l33k880191cm5tldbu@4ax.com...

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:00:24 GMT, "Kryten"
kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Hi all.

I'm currently looking for new work and accommodation in Cambridge UK.

Recent contract work finished and looking for work in mainly digital /
some
analogue.
Have recently designed a PC104 RS232 board, and a small Bell202 modem.
Have designed with CPU/MPU up to c. 20 MHz so far, some VHDL experience.
Low/medium complexity stuff, but the spectrum of jobs in Cambridge
stretches
into the high-end stuff like designing custom silicon chips.

Job market and the economy finally seems to be recovering from 9/11.
In 1999 I got 4 interviews/week, in 2002 things had all but dried up.
Anyone else agree/disagree?

Looking for accommodation too. So far Ł70/week seems the lowest price for
one room in shared house, and rather depressing houses at that (mouldy
smell
in hall, cracking lino in kitchen, grubby beds).

Anyone got any tips/experiences on good places to look?

Arbury has a reputation as the worst bit.
Cost rockets approaching the centre.

My secondary job is on Clifton Road industrial estate so I don't want to
be
too far from that.
Somewhere on the south-east side of Cambridge would be preferable,
I can provide my own desk/bed/chair etc.
I have no car yet so needs to be cycling distance.

Mind you, if there's a permie job not in the town itself, I can relocate.

Ł70/week?!?!?!?

Wow!

Ł70/week comes out to about US$565/month.

You could rent a fairly fine place for that here in Phoenix ;-)

Ł70 a week is cheap, especially for Cambridge.

Leon

Fred Bloggs · Jan 17, 2005

uvcceet@juno.com wrote:

The circuit I am looking at works, but I would prefer to understand why
the values are what they are, as opposed to just going through life always
using a 680 ohm feedback resistor, and one day, having a problem and not
being able to understand it

This probably shows that I am not an expert in OpAmp theory <g

This application goes beyond opamp theory. The EL2244 boasts extremely
good differential gain/phase performance, a measure of transfer function
deviation with DC offset, and it is for this reason that the RC time
constants at both inputs must be matched at least throughout a 5MHz
video bandwidth. Use the 680 ohm if that's what Intersil recommends.
Also, the 75 ohm series termination is a convenient way of eliminating
the scourge of wideband linear cable drivers, indeterminate capacitive
loading, in addition to providing attenuation/elimination of
reflections. You know that the series termination->cable->terminated
load is a net gain of 1/2, so it is no leap to conclude you need a gain
of x2 prior to or at this stage, you could make the driver itself a gain
of two also. Your circuit description suggests that Intersil is using
the low impedance load driver configurations with the least gain, x1, to
maximize the feedback and thereby minimize resulting waveform distortion
where the amplifier is under the most stress, reserving the x2 gain
elements for high impedance constant and determinate loads like the line
buffer input. This explains the x1 buffer splitter that drives across a
large board ( into a termination?), followed by the x2 and into the line
buffer again at x1.

Jim Thompson · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:56:15 -0000, "Leon Heller"
<leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:e4pnu0pbf4dgqvg0l33k880191cm5tldbu@4ax.com...
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:00:24 GMT, "Kryten"
kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Hi all.

I'm currently looking for new work and accommodation in Cambridge UK.

Recent contract work finished and looking for work in mainly digital /
some
analogue.
Have recently designed a PC104 RS232 board, and a small Bell202 modem.
Have designed with CPU/MPU up to c. 20 MHz so far, some VHDL experience.
Low/medium complexity stuff, but the spectrum of jobs in Cambridge
stretches
into the high-end stuff like designing custom silicon chips.

Job market and the economy finally seems to be recovering from 9/11.
In 1999 I got 4 interviews/week, in 2002 things had all but dried up.
Anyone else agree/disagree?

Looking for accommodation too. So far Ł70/week seems the lowest price for
one room in shared house, and rather depressing houses at that (mouldy
smell
in hall, cracking lino in kitchen, grubby beds).

Anyone got any tips/experiences on good places to look?

Arbury has a reputation as the worst bit.
Cost rockets approaching the centre.

My secondary job is on Clifton Road industrial estate so I don't want to
be
too far from that.
Somewhere on the south-east side of Cambridge would be preferable,
I can provide my own desk/bed/chair etc.
I have no car yet so needs to be cycling distance.

Mind you, if there's a permie job not in the town itself, I can relocate.

Ł70/week?!?!?!?

Wow!

Ł70/week comes out to about US$565/month.

You could rent a fairly fine place for that here in Phoenix ;-)

Ł70 a week is cheap, especially for Cambridge.

Leon

And the quality of life ?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Woodgate · Jan 17, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <gubou09td5nmr87226o3ji70dn649pr6dj@
4ax.com&gt

about 'Cambridge (UK) engineer seeking job and home in
Cambridge', on Mon, 17 Jan 2005:

And the quality of life ?

Pretty good: that's why it's not cheap.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Jan 17, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:04:06 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <gubou09td5nmr87226o3ji70dn649pr6dj@
4ax.com&gt about 'Cambridge (UK) engineer seeking job and home in
Cambridge', on Mon, 17 Jan 2005:
And the quality of life ?

Pretty good: that's why it's not cheap.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Mark Jones · Jan 17, 2005

Kevin wrote:

If you are talking only a mA or two total current then a set of
Alkaline D cells may last for several years. In that case you might be
able to forget about a rechargable solution.

Well, was aiming for at least 5 years, maybe more (10 is even better).
That's why I was thinking of rechargeable batteries as opposed to
nonrechargeable ones.

I've been working on a PIC design that uses an AA-sized lithium-ion
rechargable cell. From what I've gathered, the specs indicate a cycle
life of 1000 and cell life at 2 years, regardless of use. The
concensus is that storing Li-ion cells in a cool to cold location at
40% charge is best for longetivity.

-- "Pleasantries, aren't they those little apple-filled thingies?" MCJ
200310

richard mullens · Jan 17, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:56:15 -0000, "Leon Heller"
leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:e4pnu0pbf4dgqvg0l33k880191cm5tldbu@4ax.com...

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:00:24 GMT, "Kryten"
kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Hi all.

I'm currently looking for new work and accommodation in Cambridge UK.

Recent contract work finished and looking for work in mainly digital /
some
analogue.
Have recently designed a PC104 RS232 board, and a small Bell202 modem.
Have designed with CPU/MPU up to c. 20 MHz so far, some VHDL experience.
Low/medium complexity stuff, but the spectrum of jobs in Cambridge
stretches
into the high-end stuff like designing custom silicon chips.

Job market and the economy finally seems to be recovering from 9/11.
In 1999 I got 4 interviews/week, in 2002 things had all but dried up.
Anyone else agree/disagree?

Looking for accommodation too. So far Ł70/week seems the lowest price for
one room in shared house, and rather depressing houses at that (mouldy
smell
in hall, cracking lino in kitchen, grubby beds).

Anyone got any tips/experiences on good places to look?

Arbury has a reputation as the worst bit.
Cost rockets approaching the centre.

My secondary job is on Clifton Road industrial estate so I don't want to
be
too far from that.
Somewhere on the south-east side of Cambridge would be preferable,
I can provide my own desk/bed/chair etc.
I have no car yet so needs to be cycling distance.

Mind you, if there's a permie job not in the town itself, I can relocate.

Ł70/week?!?!?!?

Wow!

Ł70/week comes out to about US$565/month.

You could rent a fairly fine place for that here in Phoenix ;-)

Ł70 a week is cheap, especially for Cambridge.

Leon

And the quality of life ?

Cambridge is a great place.

A river to punt on, lots of foreign girls in the summer months, a good selection of pubs and restaurants, lots going on, plenty
of academics & engineering types, some excellent museums, a botanical gardens, academic bookshops, swimming pool, an hour from
London on a fast train (the "Cambridge Flyer").

Not car friendly though.

I don't live there now, but I'd look in the Mill Road area, beyond the railway bridge it may be cheaper.

Kryten · Jan 17, 2005

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:81fou0h58a1sn7bngr7furemljvuug11h2@4ax.com...

The OP opined that he got shabby quarters for Ł70/week.
Is that "pretty good" quality of life?

An excellent point.

Cambridge has many good aspects that improve life.

And I am sure I can find a house that I find nice enough to live in.

However the difficulty is making the compromise between niceness, cost,
location, and proximity to potential employers.

It may well be that it simply isn't possible to rent a nice enough room on
my limited budget here.

In which case I might as well look for a room where it is possible.

I just asked the newsgroup to get an idea of the 'event horizon' where
adequate housing disappears.

Like that round a black hole, it does enlarge over time as housing is sucked
in.

I guess the centre would be somewhere around the market square.

The boundary is not very circular of course, due to the distortion of the
cost-time continuum by places like Arbury, and the sewage works.

However you can detect when shops pass into the boundary, because thrift
shops are turned into Italian restaurants and delicatessens. This process is
called "spaghettification"

keith · Jan 18, 2005

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:16:46 -0600, Rhyanon wrote:

Slow learners, eh?

Driver to drive?

Rich Grise

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Robert Baer

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j.b. miller

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Rhyanon

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Kevin

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Spehro Pefhany

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John Woodgate

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Rick Thompson

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Rick Thompson

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Leon Heller

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Fred Bloggs

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Jim Thompson

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John Woodgate

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Jim Thompson

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Mark Jones

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richard mullens

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Kryten

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keith

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David L. Jones

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