Driver to drive?

[legg]

On 30 Oct 2004 18:40:55 -0700, david.pariseau@sbcglobal.net (David
Pariseau) wrote:

I'm using an LM4040-5.0 as a 5 volt reference in a circuit tied to the
AC mains that has to be able to run from 80-264VAC.

___ ___
Line ------>|-------|___|---+--|___|------+---+
1N4005 1K | 450K | |
| | |
--- - ---
3.3uf --- LM4040-5.0 ^ --- 0.1uf
| | |
| | |
Neutral -----------------------+-------------+---+

For some reason the LM4040 fails when I apply power to the circuit
(I'm currently using ~120VAC). The 450K resistor should be limiting
the current into the reference to 377ua (170VDC / 450K), well below
the maximum reverse current of 20ma and above the minimum operating
current of 70ua.

Your circuit is tied to the mains - what else is it tied to?

Are you observing surface-mount part advisory re connections to pin2?

Are you making measurements with other mains-powered equipment when
the circuit is live?

Are you correctly identifying L and N?

If external (output) connections to the reference are intermittent,
are you sure that the common line is mating first and opening last on
each and every make/break event?

RL

 

[Rich Grise]

Damn, So much double-talk mumbo-jumbo there that you could qualify as
a Democrat on this side of the pond ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Oh, my holy Christ in Heaven, somebody shoot me. I actually find
myself in the untenable situation of actually agreeing with the
famous nazi sympathizer, Jim Thompson.

Thanks,
Rich & Mr. Taaka

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:37:13 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

He would not be on the payroll of the multinationals and oil companies if
he had an IQ less than 75.

The following story has appeared in Forbes magazine:

....

[David Rubenstein, co-founder and Managing Director of The Carlyle Group, the
"world's largest private equity firm," recently recounted his first meeting the
current president and Bush's days on the Carlyle board in a speech to the Los
Angeles County Employees Retirement Association. LACERA has invested $95 million
in Carlyle, now the 11th largest defense contractor in America as majority
shareholder in United Defense. For ethical reasons, many in the association
would like to see LACERA funds pulled and invested elsewhere.

In the speech Rubenstein also touched on company ethics - under intense scrutiny
since 9/11 - including widely reported stories about Carlyle operating as a
shadow government. He assured investors that "making money is nice" but Carlyle
is "first and foremost" concerned with ethics.]

.... David Rubenstein speaking:

"But when we were putting the board together, somebody [Fred Malek] came to me
and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He's kind of
down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board
positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he'll be a good
board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

"I said well we're not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy.
I met the guy. I said I don't think he adds that much value. We'll put him on
the board because - you know - we'll do a favor for this guy; he's done a favor
for us.

"We put him on the board and [he] spent three years. Came to all the meetings.
Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said
to him, after about three years - you know, I'm not sure this is really for you.
Maybe you should do something else. Because I don't think you're adding that
much value to the board. You don't know that much about the company.

"He said, well I think I'm getting out of this business anyway. And I don't
really like it that much. So I'm probably going to resign from the board.

And I said, thanks - didn't think I'd ever see him again. His name is George W.
Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me,
name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he
wouldn't have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven't been
invited to the White House for any things."

....

So there you have a story about how someone incapable of really running anything
gets to appear to run things.

Jon

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:09:24 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

Have a wee think.
Are you, John Larkin, being fair minded here?

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

ROFLMAO!

No, he's playing us like a fuckin guitar.

Cheers!
Rich

It's a pickup game; anybody can play.

John

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:44:27 +0000, John S. Dyson wrote:

In article <aC_gd.444451$mD.146769@attbi_s02>,
Robert Monsen <rcsurname@comcast.net> writes:

Just saying Moore is a liar because of his opinions is irresponsible,
and shows a lack of judgement, and indeed shows the sort of inability to
discriminate fact from opinion that the right wing political pundits,
and perhaps even the Bush administration, depend on for their survival.

People dont' say that Moore is a liar because of his opinions, but because
of his expert ability to make his opinions appear to be factual instead of
being crafted assertions (superficial lies, in sync with the leftist
superficiality in general.) When seeing the Moore hit-pieces, it is
important to see them in the eyes of an intelligent person (my own
position),

Well, I guess "intelligence" is no guarantee of "sense."

You're a tool.

Remember, John S. Dyson is a nazi sympathizer.

Thanks,
RIch

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:10:54 +0000, Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:43:11 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:56:57 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:

Scott Stephens wrote:
Once one realizes one has been taken as a sucker, how much more shall
one demand in recompense? How less can one be trusted to deliver
value for value in light of being pain in hurt for value?

The presumption that those that behave altruistically are moral fools
in a cynical world can only result in the degradation and destruction
of that world.

May God answer prayers, Jews and Gentiles, Protestant and Catholics,
Theist and Atheist. Its all the same - Predators and Prey playing
silly name-games.

Indeed. Its all Darwinian Evolution.

"That which is mostly observed, is that which replicates the most."

http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

I really doubt Mr. Darwin had any more of a hand in how the system was
designed than you or I.

I don't understand the relevance of your comment. No one designed the
system. It just evolved.

I suspect Rich was "playing" on what could __appear__ to be the possessive
form of 'Darwinian.' In other words, "Darwinian Evolution" could be read
as meaning "Darwin's Evolution," as though the very processes of nature
were his own.

I think you're pretty close, plus I like to needle anybody who says,
"It's this way, because that's the way it is, and that's that."

I'm more interested in, howcome evolution works the way it does? What's
the motive force that induces subatomic particles to reverse entropy
and achieve a more highly-organized form?

I seem to encounter an uncomfortable silence when I ask things like
that.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Ban]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:12:20 GMT, "Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote:

Alessandro Convertino wrote:
Hi to all,
I would like to know some informations about bandpass filtering on
frequency range between 0.05-30 Hz. In the past I've used a
Sallen-key active filter, and I would like to find a more
performing solution. What IC can I use to implement it?

Thanks for your attention.

Alessandro

With this broad range you can only cascade a highpass with a lowpass
filter.

"...only..."?? Not so.

Well, with a bandwidth 500 times the center frequency you will be much more
flexible with separate filters, it might be done with a bandpass design, but
there will be no advantage.

[snip]

Sallen-Key is indeed the most suitable
topology, but keep resistors low and (unfortunately) capacitors high.

[snip]

Sallen-Key sucks... why do you declare it "most suitable topology"?

You only need 1opamp per filter, which is favourable when the opamp costs
several $$. The size of the caps will be the same with all topologies, exept
when you use a capacitor multiplier, in which case it is favourable when
they are grounded. Since the poles are not to be adjusted, S-K should be
perfectly OK. He asked for higher performance, which I translated into "less
noise".

--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Ban]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:07:02 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:


Making a low noise high performance analog filter near 0.05 is next
to imposible. The capacitors you need to use are large and costly.
If this is just a one-off or cost is no object, There are 2 and 3
op-amp circuits you may want to consider.

0.05 Hz is an omega of 0.3, so 1 uF and 3 megs is the ballpark RC. Or
0.33 uF and 10M. Those are perfectly happy numbers to work around a
fet opamp. Sounds easy to me.

John

John, the noise will be 100 times higher with 10M/1k design plus the popcorn
noise of the fet-opamp with 1/f corners and noise performance at least 10
times of the AD797 at 0.05Hz, where it has less than 3nV/sqrt Hz. Look also
at the peak to peak noise diagramm from 0.1 to 10Hz, the AD797 has only
40nV.

--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Ban]

Tim Wescott wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Hello Alessandro,

This could be nicely done with a DSP. ADC and DAC for data conversion
are cheap and plentiful, and so are DSP.

A microcontroller solution might work as well if it has to be rock
bottom in cost. Some MSP430 versions contain a 16 bit multiplier.
However, it can be a hassle to pipe the data in and out through the
ports. Ciao, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Sampling at 150Hz will make the anti-aliasing easy, and even an 8051
ought to be able to make a pretty credible filter at that sample rate.
There are some very good 24-bit Sigma-Delta ADCs that have output
sample rates that fast, and input sample rates high enough that you
anti-alias with any R and C you find kicking around on the floor.

You still need an anti-aliasing filter, though. The advantage to
doing it with digital hardware is your frequencies are set by the uP
oscillator frequency, which will be pretty darn stable.

I think the digital approach is very valid in this case, but there will be a
I/O delay higher than with an analog filter. This might have to be
considered depending on the application. Certainly the capacitors will be
nice and small for a 30Hz LP compared to a 0.05Hz HP. But you will need
quite a high order filter to avoid aliasing. Maybe the signal is already
band limited so that will help.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:07:28 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:09:24 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

Have a wee think.
Are you, John Larkin, being fair minded here?

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

ROFLMAO!

No, he's playing us like a fuckin guitar.

Cheers!
Rich

It's a pickup game; anybody can play.

;-)

 

[John Smith]

"Tim Wescott" <tim@wescottnospamdesign.com> wrote in message
news:10oa7n9kg6jv9f9@corp.supernews.com...

John Smith wrote:
"Al Borowski" <al.borowski@EraseThis.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4184ee9d$0$31908$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

terry wrote:

Hi,

What is the difference between flash memory and eeprom?

As far as I know, with EEPROM you can erase/reprogramme individual bytes.
You can only erase/reprogramme Flash in banks of many bytes. Use google
for more details.


Which one is more reliable?

No idea - look at some datasheets.

cheers,

Al


Thanks!



Also, if what I've been using is typical, flash has a write-life. That
is, after so many erase/write cycles (50,000) it may begin to fail.

John
Both flash and EEPROM have write lives (in cycles) and data retention
lives (in years). The basic cell AFAIK is the same, so for recent
technology devices they will have comparable lives. The difference is
that the flash part saves a lot of real estate with it's block erase, so
in general if the chip has a lot of memory it'll be flash and if it has
only a little it'll be EEPROM.

In fact, for "big" chunks of memory I don't know of anything _but_ flash
being currently available, and the little 256-byte 8-pin parts are all
EEPROM for convenience in parameter storage. There are older EEPROM
chips, but that's only because EEPROM came along several years before
flash did.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Thanks, Tim. I didn't know that.

John

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:26:51 +0000, dd wrote:

A replacement, the James Webb Space Telescope, is planned for 2011, but,
well ... http://jwstsite.stsci.edu/ Although the JWST will be a larger
telescope than the HST, it's expected to be half the weight. Also,
there's this on the website: "Mission planners want to place the JWST in
an orbit well beyond Earth's Moon at a place called the Second Lagrange
Point (L2) - a challenging orbit for a NASA space astronomy mission."
Hah! We'll have to wait and see what happens.




The value of that mass with its value in the low orbit now! should not be
underestimated.
A future telescope is always uncertain . I note that spinning gyros are a
major source of lifetime limit. Hemispherical vibrating gyros have now
been space tested and are hardly inferior in drift performance they could
be retro fitted in any new update.
Time to upgrade by any means.

Now that some serious money is interested in civilian space travel,
how much do you think it would cost to periodically ship some supplies
and stuff up to Hubble?

It sure sounds like Virgin Galactic intends to go to orbit with a craft
that has some respectable capability - it's gotta be cheaper than a
shuttle flight!

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Tim Wescott]

Joerg wrote:

BTW, I think your new paper on your web site about block diagrams in
control systems is great.

Thanks. I think very highly of that whole project, but but it's always
hard to rate one's own work.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 04:26:36 GMT, john_c@tpg.com.au (John Crighton)
wrote:

I say again, how can two dozen or so people working
in a union head office deliberately stuff up anyone's
business. If the employees in the head office of a
plumbers union go on strike, as you suggest, then they
would be letting down the plumbers that they are supposed
to represent and that would be silly now, wouldn't it?

The co-founder of my company used to be an international organizer for
the Teamsters' Union. They had their own "office workers" union, and
used to go on strike against the Teamsters. The battles got pretty
intense some times; she has some great stories. She said that the
Teamsters acted just like "bosses." Funny.

John

 

[Ban]

Tim Wescott wrote:

Ban wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

- snip -

I think the digital approach is very valid in this case, but there
will be a I/O delay higher than with an analog filter.

If you use an IIR filter the system delay won't be much more than an
analog filter (the filter itself will be comparable, any excess will
just be from the acquisition and output sample time).

This might have to be
considered depending on the application. Certainly the capacitors
will be nice and small for a 30Hz LP compared to a 0.05Hz HP. But
you will need quite a high order filter to avoid aliasing. Maybe the
signal is already band limited so that will help.

The ADC I had in mind is a sigma-delta type, the AD7711 or others of
it's ilk. It samples the input signal at up to 40kHz if I read the
data sheet correctly (more if I don't), so you don't need much
anti-alias on the input. If you can't stand the aliasing products on
the output you'll need anti-aliasing there, or you need to have a
digital reconstruction filter running on the uP, which will get you
out of the 8051 class fairly quickly.

Well I was referring to the before mentioned 150Hz sample rate. If you
oversample a lot more(with 40k sample 0.05Hz is almost 1/1mio!) the analog
filter gets relaxed specs, but the precision of the IIR coefficients require
more and more effort (float, double precision) so there will be an optimum
depending on your MCU/DSP.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Terry Given]

Ban wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:12:20 GMT, "Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote:


Alessandro Convertino wrote:

Hi to all,
I would like to know some informations about bandpass filtering on
frequency range between 0.05-30 Hz. In the past I've used a
Sallen-key active filter, and I would like to find a more
performing solution. What IC can I use to implement it?

Thanks for your attention.

Alessandro

With this broad range you can only cascade a highpass with a lowpass
filter.

"...only..."?? Not so.


Well, with a bandwidth 500 times the center frequency you will be much more
flexible with separate filters, it might be done with a bandpass design, but
there will be no advantage.


[snip]


Sallen-Key is indeed the most suitable
topology, but keep resistors low and (unfortunately) capacitors high.

[snip]

Sallen-Key sucks... why do you declare it "most suitable topology"?



You only need 1opamp per filter, which is favourable when the opamp costs
several $$. The size of the caps will be the same with all topologies, exept
when you use a capacitor multiplier, in which case it is favourable when
they are grounded. Since the poles are not to be adjusted, S-K should be
perfectly OK. He asked for higher performance, which I translated into "less
noise".

I think things are different when you have to place an IC every time you
want an opamp (interesting how quads are often cheaper than duals), then
have to place all the discretes. But S-K filters certainly are crappy
(sensitivity, etc).

I have also watched 4 different engineers (in 4 different companies) try
to build PWM filters using S-K LP topologies, only to discover that
square waves have sharp edges, and S-K filters tend to provide a direct
capacitive path from input to output, thereby ensuring that the required
opamp GBW >> that which you thought you needed..... I hereby confess to
being the first engineer I ever saw do that. I felt a lot better when I
saw others (much smarter than I) doing it - my solution was a slight
topology change (split Rin in two, with a shunt cap in the middle),
theirs was buy a much more expensive opamp. Pspice found my problem for
me (only because I looked), so I changed it before the pcb layout

Cheers
Terry

 

[Scott Stephens]

Mark Fergerson wrote:

Scott Stephens wrote:

Once one realizes one has been taken as a sucker, how much more shall
one demand in recompense?

One does not demand extra compensation for being taught a harsh truth;
one rewards it. For best effect, the "reward" must be of the same flavor
as the "lesson", frinst a term in a truly unpleasant prison. That way
the other guy also learns a valuable lesson.

There is some delightful Buddhist proverb about a teacher that burns a
servants dress with a coal, so she can reciprocate by offering him a
coal to light his cigarette. I think it was a kind of metaphor for
justice and reciprocity, IIRC. Perhaps someone will post a link to it,
because I'd like a copy.

How less can one be trusted to deliver value for value in light of
being pain in hurt for value?

Sigh. You trust a snake to bite you, not kiss you. The problem is
learning to identify and avoid snakes.

I'm working on defining that better. Predators don't come with warning
labels, and I'm near-sighted anyways. Perhaps I'll post a rule set for
playing corrupt games in corrupt systems I'm working on...

If you simply kill those who offend you, they learn nothing. If you
teach them not to offend, you have added a valuable member to society.
If they prove incapable of learning, a little genetic pool skimming may
be indicated.

There are nuclear, molecular and lattice scale et. et. dynamics at work.
There is a time and place to identify a population as guilty for
harboring criminal beliefs, and inflict collective correction.

May God answer prayers, Jews and Gentiles, Protestant and Catholics,
Theist and Atheist. Its all the same - Predators and Prey playing silly
name-games.

Deities are, on the whole, infinitely more bloodthirsty than any
mortal could dream of being.

Indeed. In one documentary about 9/11, a priest interviewed said that
when he saw the jet crash into the tower, he knew instantly that
religion was involved, because only religion could motivate man to such
extremes. But unless you believe in deities with independent volition
(angels, demons, ghosts, et.) then you're stuck accepting religion as a
form of philosophy or meme that affects the minds of men. Have
communists been any less successful in brainwashing than any other cult
or religion? When soldiers are put into combat, do the sacrifice
themselves for one another less readily than suicide bombers?

****
My rough outline of a rule-set for sick games (political, religious,
philosophical et.):

division & specialization of labor in a competitive context vs games and
schemes to make others work for you. Industry vs. piracy

(this is a statement of systemic dynamics; not a moral imperative but a
consequence of intelligence, least-action conservation, and tradition -
fundamental identities. The "shoulds" and "aughts" are aesthetic
judgements; our minds recognize patterns and finding it interesting,
tend to think its appropriate, not cognitively dissonant)

Justice - cooperation & competition in a defined, reciprocal context
To the end values are established and promoted (life, flourishing)

Injustice, fraud, deception, cheating, "gaming" system, profiting
individual or gang at expense of system/social order

Examples & instances of cheating encourage others to cheat

Don't be the last one to start looting - you get less, likely to get caught

Kleptocrasy - pervasiveness of cheating based on the motives of game
players;
cheater 1:10, shame on you for cheating;
cheater 1:3 shame on you for getting caught -

Honest people desiring an honest system will find, or contrive reasons
to clean up the corruption and stop cheating. Someone in good faith will
start, others will follow the lead and stop cheating also. Dishonest
people will find excuses to blame others and demand they stop first and
pay, so they can get in the last hit.

Cheaters sanction cheating each other - reciprocity

There are no thieves in a kleptocrasy, just better or worse cheaters

Corrupt systems can't tolerate non-cheaters; they shame the cheaters by
invalidating systemic cheating/deception

Kleptocracies seek to corrupt any players by making dishonesty a
requirement of getting in the game.

If they can't do that, they will cheat and beat on non-cheaters until
becoming embittered and discouraged, their patience with honesty is
depleted, then they can accuse them of cheating and justify cheating them.

Kleptocrasy rule-makers make rule-sets to maintain status quo, increase
power of authority

Just systems put individuals/groups in mutually accountable roles. "I'll
keep you honest, & audit you, you keep me honest and audit me".
Kleptocracies enable corruption: "don't cast stones at me, and I won't
cast stones at you". "Forgive and be forgiven; don't spoil a good thing".

Dynamics of games are non-linear; corruption is path of least action.
having power is path of least action to getting more power, up to limit
cycle where the kleptocrasy disintegrates (loser pulls a gun at the
poker game)

"Stupid", "Good" people willfully refuse to see they are being abused &
cheated, to avoid admission of shame, consequent necessity to either
retaliate (pitifully against overwhelming force results in more
self-harm than enemy-harm), avoidance of motivation to cheat back and
hurt self-esteem, avoidance to realized one's
family/friends/countrymen/world are dirty cheaters. - Ignorance is bliss
when one can believe that existence is not a zero-sum kleptocrasy.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************

 

[Scott Stephens]

Rich Grise wrote:

Why do people insist on following religions that teach, "When a man
kicks you, turn over and let him kick you some more, and be grateful
for the valuable lesson. If you rise up to defend yourself, you are
sinning against God, and will be punished mercilessly."

I don't think Jesus or Buddha had that in mind, and I won't waste a
sermon on you. But no doubt paid professors of their philosophy employed
by tyrants wanted the peasantry to buy into that.

Sorry, that's the god of the nazis, and I have no use for him in
my Universe. In fact, it's time for him to leave, permanently.

You are spouting ignorance again. Nietzsche was the saint of the Nazis.
Nietzsche inspired Nazis with fascism, the domination of the inferior to
the superior, and cultural double-standards based on class. Nietzsche
who proclaimed "God is Dead" and railed about the perversion of
Christian morality in advocating mercy for the pathetic and weak.

You, the the liberal leftists you've been heading, are deceivers who
worship Nietzsche and practice his philosophy in secret.

The only thing Christian about Nazi fascism is the subjection and
self-sacrifice preached of the individual to the collective, and that
self-sacrifice was the low-caste peasant philosophy, not the high-caste
philosophy, in the double-standard philosophic culture Nietzsche advocated.

Nietzsche was quite an individualist himself. He probably catalyzed WW2.
But if Europe wasn't a powder keg, he couldn't have inspired Hitler
and his fellow thugs. It sure as hell wasn't Jesus that inspired the Nazis.

You should study some history and philosophy, and stop reading the New
York Times so much. But go ahead and bash Christians, they won't fight
back, and when their moderating influence is gone, there won't be any
more compassion to stop malice and greed from making our system go critical.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tom Seim wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<4184533F.4030402@nospam.com>...

Tom Seim wrote:

The bottom line in all of this was that Holbrooke was honest in his
statement that he didn't know what happened to the weapons.

That is usually translated into *knowing* they are *missing*- so what is
your point. We *know* the US has no record of possession- and *that* is
the most important thing.


Contrast that to Kerry's statement that the weapons had been
absolutely stolen by Al Quaeda, right from under Bush's nose. Kerry's
REPEATED charges where, and are, irresponsible. This is vintage Kerry.

Absolutely untrue- it is almost a necessity to assume the explosives are
at the disposal of AlQaeda until you can prove they are in US
possession. No ally of the US would own them, and because of Bush,
anyone who is not with us is against us. This is another colossal
incompetence of the Bush administration- no and's, if's, or but's about it.


Now it is very apparent that there is no way that terrorists could
have moved even a fraction of this ammo could have been moved.

Where do you get that from- you either have a 40 x 10 ton trucks or one
10 ton make 40 trips or something else. You morons have lost the war
with your lack of imagination so far, so why is it so incredible you are
dead wrong about saying it is impossible for Al Qaeda to have moved them
by some means you can't think of?


And guess what, Kerry has stopped talking about it.

How would you know- you lack the guts to listen to anything he says.

...snip more your worthless and moronic rubbish... you are a sickening
piece of garbage who should just die.


[...re-snipped worthless Bush garbage...]

And yes I DO listen to what Kerry says- and he ain't saying shit about
this, which is TOO BAD! You guys are STILL missing the big picture!
When will you learn! Probably not until well after the election is
over and people have forgotten Kerry's name. Maybe you'll listen to
Dick Morris then.

Hope you don't get TOO sick.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah- the big superior Seim pile of crap is damned
all-knowing and wise. Take your pompous bs and go die someplace. It is
now E-1 and counting- we will not be hearing much from your kind soon-
go slither away to your wet hole, lurking parasite. All you have done is
damage this newsgroup- but you don't care- it has been all about
advertising yourself. I do want to thank you for illustrating to people
how worthless, ignorant, and stupid the typical Bush supporter is.

 

[Reg Edwards]

"Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41861536$0$15428$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com> wrote in message
news:10ob34el5gq4t7f@corp.supernews.com...

I am putting together a table of prefixes and suffixes used to
designate named powers of ten. I would very much appreciate it
if someone would look the table over and see if I made any
silly errors, and would especially appreciate any suggestions
for filling in the entries marked "???". Thanks!


NAMED POWERS OF TEN - US VERSION
--------------------------------
U ??? 1.0E+36 ??? 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
000 000 000
V vendeka- 1.0E+33 decillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
000 000
W ??? 1.0E+30 ??? 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
000
X xenna- 1.0E+27 octillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
Y yotta- 1.0E+24 septillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
Z zetta- 1.0E+21 sextillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
E exa- 1.0E+18 quintillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000
P peta- 1.0E+15 quadrillion 1 000 000 000 000 000
T tera- 1.0E+12 trillion 1 000 000 000 000
G giga- 1.0E+9 billion 1 000 000 000
M mega- 1.0E+6 million 1 000 000
k kilo- 1.0E+3 thousand 1 000
h hecto- 1.0E+2 hundred 100
da deca- 1.0E+1 ten 10
d deci- 1.0E-1 tenth 0.1
c centi- 1.0E-2 hundredth 0.01
m milli- 1.0E-3 thousandth 0.001
ľ micro- 1.0E-6 millionth 0.000 001
n nano- 1.0E-9 billionth 0.000 000 001
p pico- 1.0E-12 trillionth 0.000 000 000 001
f femto- 1.0E-15 quadrillionth 0.000 000 000 000 001
a atto- 1.0E-18 quintillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 001
z zepto- 1.0E-21 sextillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 001
y yocto- 1.0E-24 septillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001
x xenno- 1.0E-27 octillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001
w ??? 1.0E-30 ??? 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
001
v vendeko- 1.0E-33 decillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
000 001
u ??? 1.0E-36 ??? 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
000 000 001


NAMED POWERS OF TEN - UK VERSION
-------------------------------
U ??? 1.0E+36 sextillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
000
000 000
V vendeka- 1.0E+33 ??? 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
000
000
W ??? 1.0E+30 quintillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
000
X xenna- 1.0E+27 ??? 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000000
Y yotta- 1.0E+24 quadrillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
Z zetta- 1.0E+21 ??? 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
E exa- 1.0E+18 trillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000
P peta- 1.0E+15 ??? 1 000 000 000 000 000
T tera- 1.0E+12 billion 1 000 000 000 000
G giga- 1.0E+9 milliard 1 000 000 000
M mega- 1.0E+6 million 1 000 000
k kilo- 1.0E+3 thousand 1 000
h hecto- 1.0E+2 hundred 100
da deca- 1.0E+1 ten 10
d deci- 1.0E-1 tenth 0.1
c centi- 1.0E-2 hundredth 0.01
m milli- 1.0E-3 thousandth 0.001
ľ micro- 1.0E-6 millionth 0.000 001
n nano- 1.0E-9 milliardh 0.000 000 001
p pico- 1.0E-12 billionthh 0.000 000 000 001
f femto- 1.0E-15 ??? 0.000 000 000 000 001
a atto- 1.0E-18 trillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 001
z zepto- 1.0E-21 ??? 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 001
y yocto- 1.0E-24 quadrillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001
x xenno- 1.0E-27 ??? 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001
w ??? 1.0E-30 quintillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
001
v vendeko- 1.0E-33 ??? 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
000 001
u ??? 1.0E-36 sextillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
000 000 001

IIRC, milliard is french, not UK english.

Leon

=========================================

I vaguely remember seing "femto", as in very teeny femto-farads.

What happened to that nice-sounding name? How many tens?
----
Reg