Do switch mode power supplies flicker in time with mains?

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zujwcvx8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:07:07 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zujsl7l2o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 02:20:29 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zuh3rp1yo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 22:28:10 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zuhu0clho5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 17:38:42 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zuhjls2do5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:33:40 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zuf5f9ayo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:01:40 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:

If half could actually see car lights flicker, the
designers wouldn't have designed them like that.

Economy.

Doesn't cost anymore to say double the pulse
rate so that even freaks like you can't see it.

I assume the higher switching speed needs better transistors etc.

You're wrong with the rates involved.

Funny how they don't all do it.

Because the designers can't see it and didn’t bother to research
what flicker fusion thresholds are out there with you freaks.

A designer who only designs something to be suitable for himself

They aint doing anything even remotely like that.

is an idiot.

Freaks that demand that everything must be designed
for the most extreme freaks are terminal fuckwits.

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-14/issue-4/features/flicker-ac-driver/understand-a-new-flicker-metric-and-its-application-to-ac-led-light-engines.html

"Human vision is adversely affected by light fluctuations at frequencies
up to 200 Hz, even though people can only directly perceive fluctuations
at frequencies up to about 70 Hz.

You're free to only buy what you like to use.

And you're free to be ignorant and believe that only a very small number
of people are affected.

That was a comment about car lights, fuckwit.

> However, I'm not free to make everyone else's car have decent lighting.

Yep, no one is silly enough to pander to freaks.

I have to put up with inferior shit by designers without a fucking clue
how the human eye works.

No you don’t, you are free to top yourself any time you like.

The fundamentals of the sensitivity of the human eye to rapidly changing
light (transient light artifacts or TLAs) as a function of frequency
have
been well known to science for a decade or more. Despite this, the
lighting industry has so far limited itself to only characterizing light
sources over the range of frequencies which the human eye can perceive
directly. This range is below 100 Hz. However, it is well documented
that
human visual performance is degraded by the presence of light
fluctuations
at frequencies in the range from 100 to 200 Hz. Here we will describe a
new flicker metric/tool that includes consideration of higher
frequencies
and further discuss an AC-LED light engine relative to performance
against
the new metric."

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 00:11:56 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zujwcvx8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:07:07 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zujsl7l2o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 02:20:29 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zuh3rp1yo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 22:28:10 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zuhu0clho5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 17:38:42 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zuhjls2do5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:33:40 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zuf5f9ayo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:01:40 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:

If half could actually see car lights flicker, the
designers wouldn't have designed them like that.

Economy.

Doesn't cost anymore to say double the pulse
rate so that even freaks like you can't see it.

I assume the higher switching speed needs better transistors etc.

You're wrong with the rates involved.

Funny how they don't all do it.

Because the designers can't see it and didn’t bother to research
what flicker fusion thresholds are out there with you freaks.

A designer who only designs something to be suitable for himself

They aint doing anything even remotely like that.

is an idiot.

Freaks that demand that everything must be designed
for the most extreme freaks are terminal fuckwits.

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-14/issue-4/features/flicker-ac-driver/understand-a-new-flicker-metric-and-its-application-to-ac-led-light-engines.html

"Human vision is adversely affected by light fluctuations at frequencies
up to 200 Hz, even though people can only directly perceive fluctuations
at frequencies up to about 70 Hz.

You're free to only buy what you like to use.

And you're free to be ignorant and believe that only a very small number
of people are affected.

That was a comment about car lights, fuckwit.

What makes you think I don't know that? Are you really that incapable of following a conversation?

However, I'm not free to make everyone else's car have decent lighting.

Yep, no one is silly enough to pander to freaks.

Your jealousy is incredible. I can see what you can't, that makes ME superior, idiot.

I have to put up with inferior shit by designers without a fucking clue
how the human eye works.

No you don’t, you are free to top yourself any time you like.

And the driver of the car I collide with when distracted by the flashing LEDs.

The fundamentals of the sensitivity of the human eye to rapidly changing
light (transient light artifacts or TLAs) as a function of frequency
have
been well known to science for a decade or more. Despite this, the
lighting industry has so far limited itself to only characterizing light
sources over the range of frequencies which the human eye can perceive
directly. This range is below 100 Hz. However, it is well documented
that
human visual performance is degraded by the presence of light
fluctuations
at frequencies in the range from 100 to 200 Hz. Here we will describe a
new flicker metric/tool that includes consideration of higher
frequencies
and further discuss an AC-LED light engine relative to performance
against
the new metric."

 

[William Gothberg]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid> wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with LEDs. With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they are capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the brightest part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the LED is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this? Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area? Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand - because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such lamps with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to each other to make the headlamp.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:16:35 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:21:41 -0600, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon wheels
in movies.

[snip]
Very obvious with flourescents.

Fluorescents can operate from DC, but you'd need a resistive ballast, which wastes energy. But you could use an invertor to make very high frequency AC to stop visible flicker.

 

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

> I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

> Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

> Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

> If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such lamps
with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to each
other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong, just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

They don't annoy YOU. They probably annoy others.

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such lamps
with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to each
other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

A car headlight SHOULD be 60W equivalent. So 6W of LEDs, or a few of my torches per lamp. Quite possible to just have three reflectors just like my torch, mounted together.

 

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

> just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

They don't annoy YOU. They probably annoy others.

You wont find anyone saying that they annoy them on the net.

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such
lamps
with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to each
other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

A car headlight SHOULD be 60W equivalent.

Wrong, as always.

> So 6W of LEDs, or a few of my torches per lamp.

Your torches are lying about them being 20W equivalents.

Quite possible to just have three reflectors just like my torch, mounted
together.

Yes, but that's nothing like what real headlights produce light wise.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked) wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and studies into it. It is a large percentage of the population that can see it. Way more than the percentage of vegetarians and disabled, yet they both get catered for.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

They don't annoy YOU. They probably annoy others.

You wont find anyone saying that they annoy them on the net.

Depends just how flickery they are. If the frequency is high enough, they won't bother anyone. Can you set something up to test the light output (or the voltage to the LEDs) with a scope?

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such
lamps
with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to each
other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

A car headlight SHOULD be 60W equivalent.

Wrong, as always.

Back in the days of incandescent lights on cars, every single car had a 55W/60W bulb for it's headlights. 55W for dip and 60W for full.

So 6W of LEDs, or a few of my torches per lamp.

Your torches are lying about them being 20W equivalents.

Actually the lie says they're 60W. I measured them as 20W. They consume 2W and give out 20W equivalent.

Quite possible to just have three reflectors just like my torch, mounted
together.

Yes, but that's nothing like what real headlights produce light wise.

A real headlight should produce the same amount of light as a 55W incandescent, which requires about 5.5W of LEDs. Easy to arrange that with reflectors and cooling without pulsing.

 

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

> It is a large percentage of the population that can see it.

Easy to claim.

> Way more than the percentage of vegetarians and disabled,

Easy to claim.

> yet they both get catered for.

Because in the case of the disabled, it stops them getting
around. Being a freak that sees some car lights flicker doesn't.

In the case of vegetarians, pandering to them sees them
buy what you are flogging and avoids them going to
some other place that does pander to their freakishness.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

They don't annoy YOU. They probably annoy others.

You wont find anyone saying that they annoy them on the net.

Depends just how flickery they are. If the frequency is high enough, they
won't bother anyone.

I meant that you wont be able to find anyone saying
that the Hue bulbs annoy them by flickering on the
net. Philips must have designed them properly.

Can you set something up to test the light output (or the voltage to the
LEDs) with a scope?

Not easily. The scope probes are hiding
and the scope is too, even tho its pretty big.

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such
lamps with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to
each other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

A car headlight SHOULD be 60W equivalent.

Wrong, as always.

Back in the days of incandescent lights on cars, every single car had a
55W/60W bulb for it's headlights.

That's a lie too.

55W for dip and 60W for full.

So 6W of LEDs, or a few of my torches per lamp.

Your torches are lying about them being 20W equivalents.

Actually the lie says they're 60W. I measured them as 20W. They consume
2W and give out 20W equivalent.

You don't know that last.

Quite possible to just have three reflectors just like my torch, mounted
together.

Yes, but that's nothing like what real headlights produce light wise.

A real headlight should produce the same amount of light as a 55W
incandescent,

They don't all produce the same.

> which requires about 5.5W of LEDs.

There you go, mangling the real story, as always.

> Easy to arrange that with reflectors and cooling without pulsing.

Yeah, yeah, none of the designed of car headlights
have a fucking clue. Some unemployable drunken
druggy chav knows it all. Yeah, right.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD) 25fps interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images? Can you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across the screen?

 

[%]

On 2018-12-25 2:33 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude.  I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films.  How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that.  Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out.  I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time.  Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

 That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
 THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD)
25fps interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images?  Can
you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across the
screen?

if the dope is good enough

 

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulktmp2o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD) 25fps
interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images?

Meaningless question.

Can you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across
the screen?

Never seen that happen.

 

[%]

On 2018-12-25 2:55 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulktmp2o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude.  I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the
wrong >> way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films.  How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that.  Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out.  I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power
supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time.  Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter
than the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

 That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
 THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a
"significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles
and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD)
25fps interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images?

Meaningless question.

Can you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time
across the screen?

Never seen that happen.

it was a popular item on the ol black n whites , westinghouse

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant" dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

It is a large percentage of the population that can see it.

Easy to claim.

Way more than the percentage of vegetarians and disabled,

Easy to claim.

yet they both get catered for.

Because in the case of the disabled, it stops them getting
around. Being a freak that sees some car lights flicker doesn't.

It causes distraction while driving. Even a fuckwit like yourself should realise that's a bad thing for everyone.

In the case of vegetarians, pandering to them sees them
buy what you are flogging and avoids them going to
some other place that does pander to their freakishness.

Please at least try to get your negatives right in sentences.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

They don't annoy YOU. They probably annoy others.

You wont find anyone saying that they annoy them on the net.

Depends just how flickery they are. If the frequency is high enough, they
won't bother anyone.

I meant that you wont be able to find anyone saying
that the Hue bulbs annoy them by flickering on the
net. Philips must have designed them properly.

With a higher frequency above what us superior beings can see.

Can you set something up to test the light output (or the voltage to the
LEDs) with a scope?

Not easily. The scope probes are hiding
and the scope is too, even tho its pretty big.

You lost an entire oscilloscope?!

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such
lamps with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next to
each other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

A car headlight SHOULD be 60W equivalent.

Wrong, as always.

Back in the days of incandescent lights on cars, every single car had a
55W/60W bulb for it's headlights.

That's a lie too.

Nope.

55W for dip and 60W for full.

So 6W of LEDs, or a few of my torches per lamp.

Your torches are lying about them being 20W equivalents.

Actually the lie says they're 60W. I measured them as 20W. They consume
2W and give out 20W equivalent.

You don't know that last.

I looked up the specs for the LED it uses. I measured the current it consumes.

Quite possible to just have three reflectors just like my torch, mounted
together.

Yes, but that's nothing like what real headlights produce light wise.

A real headlight should produce the same amount of light as a 55W
incandescent,

They don't all produce the same.

They should. There is an optimum brightness, above which you dazzle other drivers, and below which you cannot see as well.

which requires about 5.5W of LEDs.

There you go, mangling the real story, as always.

Then state what the real story is.

Easy to arrange that with reflectors and cooling without pulsing.

Yeah, yeah, none of the designed of car headlights
have a fucking clue. Some unemployable drunken
druggy chav knows it all. Yeah, right.

No, most car designers did it right, I'm talking about approximately 1 in 5 cars are done wrongly.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:51:13 -0000, % <persent@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2018-12-25 2:33 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD)
25fps interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images? Can
you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across the
screen?


if the dope is good enough

Don't need dope to see the TV for what it really is. A series of still images intended to fool those with slow eyesight. That's why HD has progressive encoding, doubling the frame rate.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:55:16 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulktmp2o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD) 25fps
interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images?

Meaningless question.

It would show us whether our eyes are inferior or not.

Can you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across
the screen?

Never seen that happen.

Then your eyesight really sux. I guess you don't bother with HD TV. I guess if you play computer games you don't care if the CPU is slow and the frame rate is abysmal.

 

[%]

On 2018-12-25 3:09 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:51:13 -0000, % <persent@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2018-12-25 2:33 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude.  I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes
around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films.  How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that.  Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money
to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to
smooth
anything out.  I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power
supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than
they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time.  Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

 That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
 THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many
articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD)
25fps interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images?  Can
you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across the
screen?


if the dope is good enough

Don't need dope to see the TV for what it really is.  A series of still
images intended to fool those with slow eyesight.  That's why HD has
progressive encoding, doubling the frame rate.

i like when you show your sense of humor

 

[William Gothberg]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 22:21:27 -0000, % <persent@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2018-12-25 3:09 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:51:13 -0000, % <persent@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2018-12-25 2:33 p.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes
around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money
to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to
smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power
supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than
they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many
articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD)
25fps interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images? Can
you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across the
screen?


if the dope is good enough

Don't need dope to see the TV for what it really is. A series of still
images intended to fool those with slow eyesight. That's why HD has
progressive encoding, doubling the frame rate.

i like when you show your sense of humor

It's spelt humour.

And I wasn't being funny, I was stating a fact - SD TV is shit.

 

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulmf92mo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

It is a large percentage of the population that can see it.

Easy to claim.

Way more than the percentage of vegetarians and disabled,

Easy to claim.

yet they both get catered for.

Because in the case of the disabled, it stops them getting
around. Being a freak that sees some car lights flicker doesn't.

It causes distraction while driving.

Only to freaks. And even you should have noticed
that the regulatory authoritys have not proscribed
car lights that can be seen to flicker by freaks.

Even a fuckwit like yourself should realise that's a bad thing for
everyone.

Even a terminal fuckwit should have noticed that
the regulatory authoritys have not proscribed
car lights that can be seen to flicker by freaks.

In the case of vegetarians, pandering to them sees them
buy what you are flogging and avoids them going to
some other place that does pander to their freakishness.

Please at least try to get your negatives right in sentences.

Nothing wrong the negatives in that sentence.

I wonder why none of my houselights use this?

Hues bulbs do, you can see that by waving something non
transparent past a bulb when looking directly at a lighted bulb.

Your strip house lights have far more leds so don't need to.

Do car lights have to make more brightness from a smaller area?

Corse they do.

Or would flickery houselights annoy people more?

They don't with Hue bulbs.

They don't annoy YOU. They probably annoy others.

You wont find anyone saying that they annoy them on the net.

Depends just how flickery they are. If the frequency is high enough,
they won't bother anyone.

I meant that you wont be able to find anyone saying
that the Hue bulbs annoy them by flickering on the
net. Philips must have designed them properly.

With a higher frequency above what us superior beings can see.

What you freaks whine about, actually.

Can you set something up to test the light output (or the voltage to the
LEDs) with a scope?

Not easily. The scope probes are hiding
and the scope is too, even tho its pretty big.

You lost an entire oscilloscope?!

Not lost, just cant remember where it ended
up and can't be bothered looking for it.

If it's the extra brightness, I don't understand

As always.

because I have a torch with a single LED and parabolic reflector
that
gives out 20W equivalent without overdrive. Simply have three such
lamps with their own little (only 1.5 inches across) reflector next
to
each other to make the headlamp.

Even you should have noticed that car headlights are much brighter.

A car headlight SHOULD be 60W equivalent.

Wrong, as always.

Back in the days of incandescent lights on cars, every single car had a
55W/60W bulb for it's headlights.

That's a lie too.

Nope.

Corse it is with that stupid every single car claim.

My current car, which has incandescent
headlights doesn't have that.

55W for dip and 60W for full.

So 6W of LEDs, or a few of my torches per lamp.

Your torches are lying about them being 20W equivalents.

Actually the lie says they're 60W. I measured them as 20W. They
consume
2W and give out 20W equivalent.

You don't know that last.

I looked up the specs for the LED it uses. I measured the current it
consumes.

Quite possible to just have three reflectors just like my torch,
mounted
together.

Yes, but that's nothing like what real headlights produce light wise.

A real headlight should produce the same amount of light as a 55W
incandescent,

They don't all produce the same.

They should.

Wrong, as always.

> There is an optimum brightness, above which you dazzle other drivers,

Not possible with high beam, stupid.

> and below which you cannot see as well.

Even sillier than you usually manage,
and that's saying something.

It isnt just the wattage that matters, its also
the beam shape with dipped headlights.

which requires about 5.5W of LEDs.

There you go, mangling the real story, as always.

Then state what the real story is.

There is no nice tidy number like that. Depends
on the beam with dipped lights and the more
the better with high beam lights within reason.
That's why plenty add driving lights.

Easy to arrange that with reflectors and cooling without pulsing.

Yeah, yeah, none of the designed of car headlights
have a fucking clue. Some unemployable drunken
druggy chav knows it all. Yeah, right.

No, most car designers did it right, I'm talking about approximately 1 in
5 cars are done wrongly.

Stupid way for those to do it. Makes a lot more
sense to do it the way those that did it right
did if if you do want to pander to freaks.

 

[Rod Speed]

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulmjwcgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:55:16 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulktmp2o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:00:53 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zulf8qz8o5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:33:27 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zulb102po5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:33:52 -0000, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:



"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in
message
newsp.zukr2cpgo5piw3@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:22:39 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:36:51 -0000, "William Gothberg" <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:47:17 -0000, trader_4
trader4@optonline.net
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-5, William
Gothberg
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:21:41 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not@mail.invalid
wrote:

On 12/19/18 6:01 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

They probably are fairly crude. I know they flicker, for
example
if I
use my cordless drill, the chuck appears to spin the wrong
way
under the
LED lighting.
I remember seeing that with a washing machine (under
fluorescent
lights). As the tub was slowing down, the row of holes
around
the
tub
would appear to reverse direction. Same thing with (spoked)
wagon
wheels
in movies.

It looks absolutely ridiculous with modern cars with LED
headlights
in
films. How hard can it be to put a smoothing capacitor on the
output
of the power supply?

I've never noticed that. Any films come to mind?

A lot of Top Gear programs showing the DRLs of cars fitted with
LEDs.
With a feature film, they might take the time/trouble/money to
do
something to stop it.

It seems especially
weird, since cars have a 12V supply with a big battery to
smooth
anything out. I guess the power supply that reduces that to
whatever
the LED headlights use though might have a switching power
supply
these
days too.

AFAIK it's deliberate, making the LEDs operate brighter than
they
are
capable of, but only 1/4 of the time. Our eyes just see the
brightest
part of the cycle, so we think they're four times brighter than
the
LED
is really capable of, without overheating itself.

That is PWM Overdrive. Peak junction current is over the nominal
rating, but the average power consumption is below nominalmaximum
current - and the peak lumen output is significantly enhanced
without
reducing the junction life appreciably.
THIS would definitely cause flicker as there is a "significant"
dead
period between the "strobe flashes"

Agreed, although Rod thinks only freaks can see it.

Its true with car lights.

You're obviously wrong,

We'll see...

just by the number of articles on the internet about it.

That's just the freaks howling about seeing it.

If it were a small number of freaks, there wouldn't so many articles
and
studies into it.

Bullshit.

Tell me, out of interest, when you watch TV at the usual (before HD)
25fps
interlaced, can you see that it's made up of seperate images?

Meaningless question.

It would show us whether our eyes are inferior or not.

Only if it was actually a viable question.

Can you notice that a moving object jumps a few inches at a time across
the screen?

Never seen that happen.

Then your eyesight really sux.

Nope, those doing the movie have enough of
a clue to film it properly so that doesn't happen.

> I guess you don't bother with HD TV.

Guess again.

I guess if you play computer games you don't care if the CPU is slow and
the frame rate is abysmal.

The only computer game I bother with is Freecell Pro and it
works fine with any cpu and the frame rate is never a problem.