Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?

using Ctek with Optima batts...one Ctek-one Optima...excellent results...super super...

have a simpler n less expensive device from Powerstream for 6V.

tried rechargeable AA batts.....shoot on site.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

In rec.crafts.metalworking Ignoramus7945 <ignoramus7945@nospam.7945.invalid> wrote:

I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I
have a lot of battery chargers.

My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the
so called "smart" chargers.

The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go
crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries.
Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or
whatever, things any decently made item should handle.

The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better
off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such.

My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also
had bad experience with battery chargers.

It's pretty safe to say most chargers are just stupid, but lots of
batteries are also garbage, and neither can compensate for each other in
the end.

Apparently the last batteries installed in the UPS at work were total
pieces of garbage and are dying off before 5 years. They're larger than
car battery sized so should last quite some time.

The testing company comes in and does an ESR test on each battery, which
shows faults the charger (it's a 545 volt system) won't ever detect.

The charts for each battery are pretty cool, (sorry, I can't share them).
I can note that one problem battery is about 250mV lower than the rest and
has an ESR of 65,000 microhms vs an average of 15,000 for the rest. One
year ago the bad battery had voltage of 14.00 which is high, so the
failure wasn't sudden and the weird data shows up on various charts.

They've removed the funky battery from the battery string and then dropped
the charger voltage in the UPS to prevent damage to the rest of the
batteries.

Basically, if this battery which might explode under real use was attached
to a 12V float charger all that would happen is more electroylte would
just boil out, it would never finish charging and it wouldn't work right
anyways. The charger would have no idea anything was even wrong without
past performance data or known good specs for the battery being inputted
anyways.

Batteries are can have complex failure modes that you just won't catch
with a volt meter. It looks like full load on these batteries is about
150Amps, so it's any hot spots would get get really interesting buring a
power failure.

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:59:19 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
<rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

On 2016-04-24, Ignoramus7945 <ignoramus7945@NOSPAM.7945.invalid> wrote:
My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the
so called "smart" chargers.

My best experiences have been with old-school "dumb" chargers. I have
a 4-amp model purchased over 40 years that is still going strong, works
every time. Recently I purchased a modern charger but it would not work
worth a damn even after returning for a replacement. So I went back to
the old standby and picked up another similar charger at a flea market.
That one also works great.

"New" and "improved" are not always the same thing.

Hear Hear!!

 

[Martin Eastburn]

Right.

I have an old school, run over and bent charger. Heavy due to a
Transformer. It charges.

I have a new school, plastic wonder and Electronic. Light as a box.
It 'measures' the battery and trashes a battery when the old one fixes
it. It will fix sulfur plates by using AC charging. Hard to beat a
transformer.

Martin

On 4/25/2016 12:50 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:59:19 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

On 2016-04-24, Ignoramus7945 <ignoramus7945@NOSPAM.7945.invalid> wrote:
My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the
so called "smart" chargers.

My best experiences have been with old-school "dumb" chargers. I have
a 4-amp model purchased over 40 years that is still going strong, works
every time. Recently I purchased a modern charger but it would not work
worth a damn even after returning for a replacement. So I went back to
the old standby and picked up another similar charger at a flea market.
That one also works great.

"New" and "improved" are not always the same thing.

Hear Hear!!

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 22:29:34 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

** The charges that really "suck" are ones that ruin
the cells in short order by overcharging and hence
overheating them. Ones that rely on sensing the temp
of a cell or run for a fixed time are the main offenders.

The temperature sensing chargers are the worst. I used to deal with
them in Kenwood handheld radios. There was a translucent red window
in the bottom of the radio battery pack and another in the base of the
drop in charger. When the NiCd battery got hot, the IR radiation
would go through the windows to a sensor of some sorts in the charger
and turn off the charging. At least that was the theory.

The problem was that by the time the surface of the NiCd battery cells
were hot enough to register a temperature increase, it was already too
late. For NiCd chemistry, the battery only gets hot AFTER it
overheats. This system was really good for killing battery packs.

However, there was another problem. When the charger recognized that
the battery was hot, it would shut down. After a while, it would cool
down, start charging, and repeat the cycle over and over until the
battery was finally truly and totally dead.

When NiMH arrived, things changed for the worse. Using a temperature
sensor wouldn't work because NiMH normally would get warm while
charging. Instead, there was a tiny drop in voltage just before the
battery reached full charge. The smart charger chip would detect this
drop in voltage and declare the battery to have been successfully
charged. That works well until you drop a fully charged battery into
the charger. There's no drop in voltage and the charger just keeps
charging until the battery overheats and is truly dead.

LiIon chargers are all smart and do a good job of preventing
overcharging. You can create a problem with dirty battery contacts,
but that's rare. However, LiIon cells deteriorate when left at full
charge for too long:
<http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm>
Same with leaving it discharged or too hot. The main culprits are
desktop replacement laptops, which tend to be left on charge 24x7.
Many newer laptop have a charge control that stops charging at 50 to
60% to extend battery life.
<http://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/>
<http://www.howtogeek.com/169669/debunking-battery-life-myths-for-mobile-phones-tablets-and-laptops/>
The next generation of LiIon chargers just might have an adjustable
EoC (end of charge) control.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

AE6KS

following reduce max charge n allow depletion before recharging advice....


Ctek's and Optimas are mated...there's an Optima icon on the Ctek.

'Instead, there was a tiny drop in voltage just before the
battery reached full charge. The smart charger chip would detect this
drop in voltage and declare the battery to have been successfully
charged.'

there is advice on NOT charging gel acids to max as max discharges gases ie depletes batt capacity n longevity. no odor detected.

Ctek's connection seems to declare the batt charged

as switching into SUPPLY after CHARGED produces substantially more running time than CHARGE ...poss 30% more..poss age related

8 year batts used for laptop/emergency auto start/small Holmes hospital clamp fan. Never depleted under 12V

The Odyssey batt connected to truck was good at 5 years but not new. The new one immediately improved ignition quality b a small fraction