Dirty Electricity

[TonyS]

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

"Independent testing so far shows promising results. Electrical Engineer
Greg Paxton has worked with the CSIRO and federal and state governments,
which are interested in the Power Saver's potential. Greg's very
optimistic. "I've seen the clear evidence that it actually does work.
Anyone can see that it reduces the current used by the apparatus that is
consuming the power", he said."

The device is said to have the blessing of Panacea University
(http://www.panaceauniversity.org/index.htm)

Here the TT report link:
http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-tonight-articles/today-tonight-power-device/

One can save up to 35% electricity when using the power factor
correction device.
(somehow I always thought that a power factor other than 1 rather saves
you money since the meter only counts real power?)

There is also a list of ailments linked to "dirty electricity" on the
Earthwise site:

* Autism
* Breast Cancer
* Headaches
* Ringing in the ears / Tinnitus
* Type 3 diabetes
* ADD/ADHD
* Multiple sclerosis
* Chronic fatigue
* Fibromyalgia
* Childhood Leukemia
* Asthma
* Skin irritations
* Mood's
* Depression
* Anxiety
* Body aches, and pains
* Dizziness
* Impaired sleep
* Memory loss

Your thoughts invited

Cheers

Tony

 

[Trevor Wilson]

TonyS wrote:

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves
up to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

**It's from Queensland, right?

Kinda says it all really.

What an absolute load of crap. I hope the ACCC crucifies these bastards.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/02/2011 11:01 AM, TonyS wrote:

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

"Independent testing so far shows promising results. Electrical Engineer
Greg Paxton has worked with the CSIRO and federal and state governments,
which are interested in the Power Saver's potential.

It certainly has the potential to reduce the need to increase
transmission capacity, and the need to build power factor correction
infrastructure, so it's understandable that the CSIRO and governments
would be interested, particularly if consumers can be duped into paying
for the devices themselves.

I doubt their interest derives from a belief that it will directly
reduce electricity bills.

I was unsucessful in finding the origin of the quote

"Over $80 billion dollars of electricity is unusable energy, but
billable in the U.S"

so its context is entirely unclear.

Greg's very

optimistic. "I've seen the clear evidence that it actually does work.
Anyone can see that it reduces the current used by the apparatus that is
consuming the power", he said."

The device is said to have the blessing of Panacea University
(http://www.panaceauniversity.org/index.htm)

Here the TT report link:
http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-tonight-articles/today-tonight-power-device/


One can save up to 35% electricity when using the power factor
correction device.
(somehow I always thought that a power factor other than 1 rather saves
you money since the meter only counts real power?)

Well, yes, it's true that it only counts real power, but what exactly
does "saving electricity" mean? The current is reduced, for sure.

On the Earthwise site it says you can "save up to 35% or more on your
electric bill each month". (What does "up to X or more" mean?)

Maybe you can, if you have nothing but reactive loads running, right off
the output from the Earthwise device, with the result that the only
energy you're consuming is the heat loss in meter and wires leading to
the device.

There is also a list of ailments linked to "dirty electricity" on the
Earthwise site:

* Headaches
* Body aches, and pains

Ah - finally an explanation. If only I'd been using clean power all
these years.

* Memory loss

Er, what?

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

TonyS wrote:

The device is said to have the blessing of Panacea University
(http://www.panaceauniversity.org/index.htm)

Very credible NOT. Real universities have a url ending in .edu*USA( or
..edu.(country code).

Here the TT report link:

Another mates product being promoted.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/02/2011 11:54 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

TonyS wrote:
Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves
up to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/


**It's from Queensland, right?

Kinda says it all really.

What an absolute load of crap. I hope the ACCC crucifies these bastards.


You may hope, but don't hold your breath. I've sent off a complaint, but

I expect it'll be filed in the "too hard" basket. Some of the technical
statements are completely untrue, and some are half-truths, but the
claims about monetary savings contain weasel words.

Sylvia.

 

[Tom]

On 2/02/2011 1:10 PM, David L. Jones wrote:
....

It's just a PF correction cap in a fancy case for $1300
What a hoot.

You can buy them on Ebay from $30 (in fancy case), no need to spend
$1300-1700.

Tom

 

TonyS <nospam@mymail.com> wrote:
I was suspicious the minute I saw the mains input. For a second
there I thought it might be a solar panel/wind generator controller.

"Panacea university". LOL.

--
[the diff between proving a positive and negative:]

Naive studies may be evidence of a kind, but really all they can do is
re-inforce studies already published. If one can fit a regression
line through some published data and it seems to show a statistically
significant connection, and it predicts much the same thing as in
published work, then we have evidence to accept the published work[...]
OTOH, if [you] get a different answer [you] are [most likely in error].
[...]

You do realise that what you have described is "an appeal to authority" -
the authority in the case being some unnamed journals - and not the
scientific method.
-- Peter Webb <webbfamily@optusnet.com.au>, 23 Nov 2010

 

[David L. Jones]

On Feb 2, 11:01 am, TonyS <nos...@mymail.com> wrote:

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

"Independent testing so far shows promising results. Electrical Engineer
Greg Paxton has worked with the CSIRO and federal and state governments,
which are interested in the Power Saver's potential. Greg's very
optimistic. "I've seen the clear evidence that it actually does work.
Anyone can see that it reduces the current used by the apparatus that is
consuming the power", he said."

The device is said to have the blessing of Panacea University
(http://www.panaceauniversity.org/index.htm)

Quote:
"Welcome to Panacea University and the faculty section of the main
Panacea-BOCAF website. Here you will find, via free access, the most
current versions of educational semi-textbooks and reports of
experiments having to do with alternative engineering that are not
currently taught in the accepted universities. Our aims are to protect
and provide studies and archives of information dealing with, for
instance, free energy technology, suppressed energy technology,
mileage boosting, lowering emissions, alternative fuels, interesting
motor modifications and studies in rotors and magnets—sometimes called
experimental magnetic motors or experimental magnetic generators."

It's just a PF correction cap in a fancy case for $1300
What a hoot.

Dave.
www.eevblog.com

 

[John Tserkezis]

terryc wrote:

Very credible NOT. Real universities have a url ending in .edu*USA( or
.edu.(country code).

Have you seen their web site? Kook central. No really, it's one thing
to say it, and another to see there's that large a collection of nutjobs
who actually believe it.
--
There's no future in time travel

 

[TonyS]

I was unsucessful in finding the origin of the quote

"Over $80 billion dollars of electricity is unusable energy, but
billable in the U.S"

I googled the above expression and found more such devices, like:

http://www.greenteamplus.com/
http://www.amerigreencorps.com/testimonials.html
http://glennbolton.com/2010/12/18/instantly-save-35-on-your-electricity-power-bills/

lol

 

[TonyS]

On 2/02/2011 11:18 AM, Tom wrote:

On 2/02/2011 1:10 PM, David L. Jones wrote:
...
It's just a PF correction cap in a fancy case for $1300
What a hoot.

You can buy them on Ebay from $30 (in fancy case), no need to spend
$1300-1700.

Tom

Yep, just checked that out.
Also, there was already such a device reported to the ACCC:
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/952221/fromItemId/142


"Federal Court declares consumers misled over Power Saver device

Auscha Corporation Pty Ltd and its former marketing manager Nagarajah
Rajkumar made misleading claims about the power-saving ability of its
Enersonic Power Saver device, the Federal Court has found.

In 2008 and 2009, Auscha marketed and sold the Power Saver, a device
which plugs into a standard electricity outlet and which was purportedly
designed to reduce the user's electricity consumption.

In court proceedings instituted in July 2010, the Australian Competition
and Consumer Commission alleged that Auscha had made a number of false
or misleading representations about the Power Saver in breach of the
Trade Practices Act 1974.

The ACCC's case centred on the fact that the Power Saver, a power factor
correction capacitor, does not actually reduce the real electrical power
consumed by a domestic user. Retail electricity suppliers generally only
charge domestic consumers for their use of real electrical power (also
known as active power), as recorded by domestic electricity meters. As
the Power Saver is not capable of reducing the amount of real electrical
power consumed by domestic consumers, domestic consumers cannot save
money by using the Power Saver.

The court declared by consent that Auscha contravened sections 52 and
53(c) of the Act, by representing in promotional material to customers
that :

* by using the Power Saver, domestic consumers could save up to 24%
on their electrical power consumption
* by using the Power Saver and saving on their electrical power
consumption, domestic consumers would thereby save money, and
* the Power Saver was designed and engineered in Australia,

when in fact:

* the Power Saver was not capable of reducing the amount of
electrical power consumed by domestic consumers as measured by retail
electricity suppliers, and therefore domestic consumers could not save
up to 24% on their electrical power consumption by using the Power Saver
* use of the Power Saver could not lead to domestic consumers
saving on their electrical power consumption as measured by retail
electricity suppliers, and therefore domestic consumers could not save
money by using the Power Saver, and
* the Power Saver was not designed and engineered in Australia.

The court also declared by consent that Mr Rajkumar was knowingly
concerned in each of the contraventions.

Furthermore, the court issued injunctions restraining Auscha and Mr
Rajkumar from engaging in similar conduct in the future and made orders
that Auscha:

* publish a corrective notice on its website (www.auscha.com.au)
* send a letter to customers affected by the conduct, and
* pay a contribution towards the ACCC's court costs.

Earlier this month the ACCC accepted a court enforceable undertaking
from Bronze Swan Pty Ltd, a reseller of the Power Saver, in relation to
similar misrepresentations made by Bronze Swan about the Power Saver device.

ACCC Chairman Graeme Samuel said today: "These actions demonstrate the
ACCC's concern to ensure that consumers are not misled into believing
that products will save them money on energy costs when this is untrue.
Suppliers of these types of devices are on notice that the ACCC is on
the look-out for those who want to make spurious energy saving claims
and should take immediate steps to review their marketing material or
they may face similar action."

 

[Phil Allison]

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive "

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

It certainly has the potential to reduce the need to increase transmission
capacity, and the need to build power factor correction infrastructure,

** Absolute bollocks.

If applied to every house in Australia, the AC supply system would collapse
from all the extra ( reactive) current being drawn.

On the Earthwise site it says you can "save up to 35% or more on your
electric bill each month".

** That is a massive lie.

Maybe you can, if you have nothing but reactive loads running, right off
the output from the Earthwise device,

** No one cent in savings even then.

Cos domestic customers here are only charged for actual energy consumption -
and the devices offered do nothing to reduce that.


..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Tom"

You can buy them on Ebay from $30 (in fancy case), no need to spend
$1300-1700.

** No Australian approval for permanent connection to the AC supply - so no
electrician can install one legally nor you.


...... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/02/2011 5:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

It certainly has the potential to reduce the need to increase transmission
capacity, and the need to build power factor correction infrastructure,

** Absolute bollocks.

If applied to every house in Australia, the AC supply system would collapse
from all the extra ( reactive) current being drawn.

Why would it increase the current. It's intended to do the opposite. I
doubt it's as simple as sticking a supercap across the mains.

On the Earthwise site it says you can "save up to 35% or more on your
electric bill each month".

** That is a massive lie.


Maybe you can, if you have nothing but reactive loads running, right off
the output from the Earthwise device,

** No one cent in savings even then.

If the device presents equal but opposite reactance to that of the load,
then it forms a parallel turned circuit, which presents infinite
impedance. So no current will pass through the meter, and there will be
no power bill.

Without the device, there is current passing through the meter, but it's
not exactly 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage because of the
resistance of the meter winding. So power is dissipated in the meter
itself, and the meter measures it, thus creating a non-zero power bill.

Whether it amounts to a 1 cent saving over a billing period, I don't
know, but it would be some amount, which given that the bill would be
zero with the device present, represents a huge (indeed infinite)
proportional saving.

So their 35% claimed saving (on power charges, not the availability
charge) might be supportable, albeit in a totally unrealistic scenario.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

If applied to every house in Australia, the AC supply system would
collapse
from all the extra ( reactive) current being drawn.

Why would it increase the current.

** Learn some simple electrical theory - bitch face.

On the Earthwise site it says you can "save up to 35% or more on your
electric bill each month".

** That is a massive lie.


Maybe you can, if you have nothing but reactive loads running, right off
the output from the Earthwise device,

** No one cent in savings even then.

If the device presents equal but opposite reactance to that of the load,
then it forms a parallel turned circuit, which presents infinite
impedance. So no current will pass through the meter, and there will be no
power bill.

** There is no power bill for reactive current at all.

You fucking idiot !!!!!!!!!!!!

Without the device, there is current passing through the meter, but it's
not exactly 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage because of the
resistance of the meter winding. So power is dissipated in the meter
itself, and the meter measures it, thus creating a non-zero power bill.

** My god - is there no limit this crazy bitch's insanity.

So their 35% claimed saving (on power charges, not the availability
charge) might be supportable,

** Complete bollocks.


..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/02/2011 6:53 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

If applied to every house in Australia, the AC supply system would
collapse
from all the extra ( reactive) current being drawn.

Why would it increase the current.

** Learn some simple electrical theory - bitch face.

I know enough theory to know that power factor correction will no
increase the current.

On the Earthwise site it says you can "save up to 35% or more on your
electric bill each month".

** That is a massive lie.


Maybe you can, if you have nothing but reactive loads running, right off
the output from the Earthwise device,

** No one cent in savings even then.

If the device presents equal but opposite reactance to that of the load,
then it forms a parallel turned circuit, which presents infinite
impedance. So no current will pass through the meter, and there will be no
power bill.

** There is no power bill for reactive current at all.

No there isn't, but you cannot succeed in drawing purely reactive
current because the meter windings have resistance. Not much, I'll grant
you, but some.

You fucking idiot !!!!!!!!!!!!


Without the device, there is current passing through the meter, but it's
not exactly 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage because of the
resistance of the meter winding. So power is dissipated in the meter
itself, and the meter measures it, thus creating a non-zero power bill.

** My god - is there no limit this crazy bitch's insanity.

Which specific point do you disagree with?

So their 35% claimed saving (on power charges, not the availability
charge) might be supportable,

Aren't you the one who gets upset by what you consider inappropriate
snipping, yet you feel able to dish it out.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

Why would it increase the current.

** Learn some simple electrical theory - bitch face.

I know enough theory to know that power factor correction will no increase
the current.

** Wrong.

Applied in the absurd and crude way that the scam device is intended to -
it will.

** There is no power bill for reactive current at all.

No there isn't, but you cannot succeed in drawing purely reactive current
because the meter windings have resistance.

** My god you are TOTALLY INSANE.

Should be put down like a mad dog.



...... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/02/2011 7:30 PM, kreed wrote:

On Feb 2, 10:01 am, TonyS<nos...@mymail.com> wrote:
Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

"Independent testing so far shows promising results. Electrical Engineer
Greg Paxton has worked with the CSIRO and federal and state governments,
which are interested in the Power Saver's potential. Greg's very
optimistic. "I've seen the clear evidence that it actually does work.
Anyone can see that it reduces the current used by the apparatus that is
consuming the power", he said."


If it does reduce the current used by an appliance, it will also
reduce its efficiency at what it does,

Well, it's not reducing the current used by the appliance, it's merely
correcting the power factor, which necessarily reduces the current
upstream of the correction circuit (otherwise energy would not be
conserved). That is, the currents upstream and downstream of the device
are different.

and it will likely have to be used longer to get the same result,
negating any "savings".
(Ie if you reduce the energy available to your fridge, it will have to
run longer to maintain the same temperature.)

Excepting maybe incandescent bulbs - if you are happy to put up with
the reduced brightness - but it would be cheaper to use a dimmer, or a
lower wattage bulb.

It won't do anything when loads are resistive.

Power factor correction is worthwhile when considered from the
perspective of the overall system. But as things stand, a consumer who
installed one would pay the cost of the device, but the benefits would
accrue to the power supplier in the form of reduced infrastructure
requirement and lower resistive losses in supply cables.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/02/2011 11:01 AM, TonyS wrote:

Today Tonight has done it again.

Shame they didn't try this first

http://www.google.com.au/#q=power+saving+scam

 

[kreed]

On Feb 2, 10:01 am, TonyS <nos...@mymail.com> wrote:

Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au/

"Independent testing so far shows promising results. Electrical Engineer
Greg Paxton has worked with the CSIRO and federal and state governments,
which are interested in the Power Saver's potential. Greg's very
optimistic. "I've seen the clear evidence that it actually does work.
Anyone can see that it reduces the current used by the apparatus that is
consuming the power", he said."

If it does reduce the current used by an appliance, it will also
reduce its efficiency at what it does,
and it will likely have to be used longer to get the same result,
negating any "savings".
(Ie if you reduce the energy available to your fridge, it will have to
run longer to maintain the same temperature.)

Excepting maybe incandescent bulbs - if you are happy to put up with
the reduced brightness - but it would be cheaper to use a dimmer, or a
lower wattage bulb.

The device is said to have the blessing of Panacea University
(http://www.panaceauniversity.org/index.htm)

Here the TT report link:http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-tonight-articles/today-tonight-po...

One can save up to 35% electricity when using the power factor
correction device.
(somehow I always thought that a power factor other than 1 rather saves
you money since the meter only counts real power?)

There is also a list of ailments linked to "dirty electricity" on the
Earthwise site:

     * Autism
     * Breast Cancer
     * Headaches
     * Ringing in the ears / Tinnitus
     * Type 3 diabetes
     * ADD/ADHD
     * Multiple sclerosis
     * Chronic fatigue
     * Fibromyalgia
     * Childhood Leukemia
     * Asthma
     * Skin irritations
     * Mood's
     * Depression
     * Anxiety
     * Body aches, and pains
     * Dizziness
     * Impaired sleep
     * Memory loss

Your thoughts invited

Cheers

Tony

Many of which are caused by other factors - including ageing.
Would be easy enough to prove by testing for these things in countries
that have limited or
no electricity - though
under such conditions you would probably find other nastier diseases
and hunger related issues.