Diodes, Inc...

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s.

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins.

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage.
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.
Click to expand...

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
 
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s.

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins.

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage.
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
Click to expand...

which is never even hinted it.

I buy parts and test them. Sometimes that\'s really interesting. Some
parts are fine at 5x abs max voltage, some blow up at 10% over.
 
fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 13.49.55 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s..

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers.. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins.

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage.
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
which is never even hinted it.
Click to expand...

\"The back‐to‐back Zener stack, shown in figure 2, between the MOSFET’s gate and drain connections, is the key
component in this low‐side, active clamp configuration. The clamp voltage is set by the Zener stack voltage and
is designed to be less than the avalanche breakdown voltage of the MOSFET’s drain to source junction but high
enough not to be triggered in normal operation.\"

I buy parts and test them. Sometimes that\'s really interesting. Some
parts are fine at 5x abs max voltage, some blow up at 10% over.
Click to expand...

and sometimes the damage doesn\'t show up until later, it all depends on what you are doing
 
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 5:16:19 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 13.49.55 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s.

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins.

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage..
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
which is never even hinted it.
\"The back‐to‐back Zener stack, shown in figure 2, between the MOSFET’s gate and drain connections, is the key
component in this low‐side, active clamp configuration. The clamp voltage is set by the Zener stack voltage and
is designed to be less than the avalanche breakdown voltage of the MOSFET’s drain to source junction but high
enough not to be triggered in normal operation.\"

I buy parts and test them. Sometimes that\'s really interesting. Some
parts are fine at 5x abs max voltage, some blow up at 10% over.
and sometimes the damage doesn\'t show up until later, it all depends on what you are doing
Click to expand...

I would not rely on internal zeners. I have 2x 13V 10W zeners on my 24V relay driver. Probably overkill, but zeners are cheap.
 
On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:16:14 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 13.49.55 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s.

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins.

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage.
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
which is never even hinted it.

\"The back?to?back Zener stack, shown in figure 2, between the MOSFET’s gate and drain connections, is the key
component in this low?side, active clamp configuration. The clamp voltage is set by the Zener stack voltage and
is designed to be less than the avalanche breakdown voltage of the MOSFET’s drain to source junction but high
enough not to be triggered in normal operation.\"
Click to expand...

Why isn\'t that voltage on the data sheet?


I buy parts and test them. Sometimes that\'s really interesting. Some
parts are fine at 5x abs max voltage, some blow up at 10% over.

and sometimes the damage doesn\'t show up until later, it all depends on what you are doing
Click to expand...

I tested a bunch of polymer electrolytics at reverse voltage for over
a month. That\'s not specified. Leakage current very gradually
declined, so they looked OK for production.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hcoobynzsh4wonv/Polymer_Rev_Test.JPG?raw=1

I also tested some $300 distributed amps for max voltage. They started
leaking but didn\'t fail at 16 volts, so we run them at 12, very
current limited, in what might be called a \"novel\" bias circuit.
 
fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 17.56.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:16:14 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 13.49.55 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s.

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins..

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage.
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
which is never even hinted it.

\"The back?to?back Zener stack, shown in figure 2, between the MOSFET’s gate and drain connections, is the key
component in this low?side, active clamp configuration. The clamp voltage is set by the Zener stack voltage and
is designed to be less than the avalanche breakdown voltage of the MOSFET’s drain to source junction but high
enough not to be triggered in normal operation.\"
Why isn\'t that voltage on the data sheet?
Click to expand...

60V ...
 
On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:11:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 17.56.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:16:14 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 13.49.55 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a
spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does
a lot more now.

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping
parts in production? Any horror stories?



We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for
good or ill.

Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the
onsemi version.

Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s.

Haven’t used any of their switcher parts.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
That switcher looks fabulous. I\'m designing a board with maybe 125
12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about
no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old
LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic.

How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils.
Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect?

One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while
whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the
guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will
only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so
that\'s not worth the hassle here.

I\'m thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.

this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
We use that part in some other places. But it\'s physically big and
they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can
squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins.

Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too.

A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I\'d need a catch
diode or an avalanche-rated part.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
It avalanches but they don\'t specify the voltage!

the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at.

Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage.
Grrrr.

https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf

page 2


Lots of words, no numbers.

atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
which is never even hinted it.

\"The back?to?back Zener stack, shown in figure 2, between the MOSFET’s gate and drain connections, is the key
component in this low?side, active clamp configuration. The clamp voltage is set by the Zener stack voltage and
is designed to be less than the avalanche breakdown voltage of the MOSFET’s drain to source junction but high
enough not to be triggered in normal operation.\"
Why isn\'t that voltage on the data sheet?

60V ...
Click to expand...

No. It doesn\'t zener at 60. What would the flyback voltage actually
be? It might be sorta guessed from the abs max flyback energy, but I\'d
like to know the decay time when driving a relay. All the curves,
including SOAR, end at 60 volts.

The pattern I\'ve seen in discretes is breakdown voltages between 1.5
and 2.0 x specified abs max. Most go into soft conduction (like the
EPC GaN parts) and some fail and die hard, even current limited.

I want to know that.

I\'ve seen some ICs, like LM1117, that work at 5x rated abs max. One
opamp wasn\'t even reliable at abs max.
 
John Larkin wrote:

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.
Click to expand...

What makes them dynamite as compared to, say, TPS564201?
Looks like a boring synchronous buck. What do I miss?

Best regards, Piotr
 
søndag den 30. juli 2023 kl. 10.42.09 UTC+2 skrev Piotr Wyderski:
John Larkin wrote:

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.
What makes them dynamite as compared to, say, TPS564201?
Looks like a boring synchronous buck. What do I miss?
Click to expand...

maybe not much, but the AP66200 can take 60v input
 
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:42:02 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<bombald@protonmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.

What makes them dynamite as compared to, say, TPS564201?
Looks like a boring synchronous buck. What do I miss?

Best regards, Piotr
Click to expand...

I love those little TI switchers. We use tons of them. But the best
they can do on input voltage is 28, and their current rating is
optimistic, in my opinion.

I have 48 volts and need to make 12 to power a brickwall of relays.
HV-input switchers are rare. I\'d use the trusty old LM2576HV but I
don\'t have room for it and its giant catch diode and inductor and
caps. It switches at 50 KHz!

Pulse skip mode is fine for powering relays but can cause problems in
analog circuits, so we prefer to stock parts that don\'t do that. The
TIs do have spread-spectrum, which is cool for EMI tests and somehow
doesn\'t seem to get into the DC output. Clever.

SRH05 is a very cool part, but only good for 500 mA out. I guess I
could use four of them.

48 volts is pretty common lately, PoE and such and maybe even in cars.
I expect more HV-input switchers in the future.

(Being a Red-Blooded Real American, I say \"the future.\")
 
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

> maybe not much, but the AP66200 can take 60v input

OK, that\'s something! Some of the TI parts can take 38V at most.

Best regards, Piotr
 
John Larkin wrote:

I love those little TI switchers. We use tons of them. But the best
they can do on input voltage is 28, and their current rating is
optimistic, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the 60V capability makes them worth attention. Thanks for
sharing the parts.

Best regards, Piotr
 
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
søndag den 30. juli 2023 kl. 10.42.09 UTC+2 skrev Piotr Wyderski:
John Larkin wrote:

Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I\'d
like to use.
What makes them dynamite as compared to, say, TPS564201?
Looks like a boring synchronous buck. What do I miss?

maybe not much, but the AP66200 can take 60v input
Click to expand...

Which is super handy for inverting bucks. Making -16 from +24 is too sporty
with a 42-volt abs max.

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
 
48 volts is pretty common lately, PoE and such and maybe even in cars.
I expect more HV-input switchers in the future.
Click to expand...

I agree, at least for my car. I have 12V and 16V modules; so, the common storage is good at 48V. It\'s not too low for power and not too high for balancing problem.
 
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