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Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
On 12/11/2022 9:00 am, Ricky wrote:
I just thought by now, there might be lower cost units that don\'t drain
the battery. It\'s a damn simple circuit to implement that. I don\'t
even think it requires a separate part. It\'s just a p-channel pass
transistor with the switch as a bypass. Can\'t they put that on the
chip and bring out a pin for the push button switch to bypass the pfet?
I guess it\'s a matter of them selling a bazillion of the ones they are
making now. Why would they change?
But once one of the low cost devices starts bragging about not draining
the battery, they will all have to switch. It doesn\'t take much sales
pressure when you are only making a few cents per device.
Yes. The actual circuitry required is really simple. I think it\'s not
included because if the thing is powered down, it loses its zero
position (there are more advanced designs that have absolute
positioning, but they probably cost more to make).
So it may come down to that. People would notice the loss of zero and
complain before they realise that the batteries run down quickly.
For me, I\'d probably zero it out of habit when I turn it on and not even
notice the loss, but perhaps people differ.
Sylvia.
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 8:48:21 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
søndag den 13. november 2022 kl. 00.37.37 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:22:03 PM UTC-4, Bertrand Sindri wrote:
Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:02:46 PM UTC-4, legg wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:40:06 -0800 (PST), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery
while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be
removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some
time ago about this and some had found different brands that
worked better than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
Two sets here in two tool boxes. I keep a spare battery in their
cases - expect to have to change at least annually. If you only
pick them up once, every year or two, then dead batteries will be
no surprise.
Think about that for a minute. If I can\'t expect a battery in an
unused device to last a year sitting in the case, why would I expect
an extra battery to be good?
A disconnected battery will last significantly longer than one that is
being actively drained because the \'off\' button was interpreted by the
Chinese engineer as \"turn off the display\" instead of as \"use as little
quiescent current as possible\".
That doesn\'t take a year, and I have no use for such a device. That\'s my point. I\'m looking for a device that won\'t drain the battery, because it actually turns off.
a genuine Mitutoyo doesn\'t really turn off it doesn\'t need to, it uses so little current it doesn\'t matter, something like less than a 1 uA
it\'ll last years on a battery
I don\'t know why you say it doesn\'t turn off. The oscillator stops running, I\'m sure. The LCD is not being driven. The sensors are not being checked.. In short, every part of the design is not functioning, and being CMOS, draws infinitely little power. Or, they may have a p-fet in series with the power, either internal to the chip, or external to the chip. None of this matters, because they have effectively stopped the power drain by actually ceasing to operate.
Do you have any info on the actual design?
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 8:48:21 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
søndag den 13. november 2022 kl. 00.37.37 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:22:03 PM UTC-4, Bertrand Sindri wrote:
Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:02:46 PM UTC-4, legg wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:40:06 -0800 (PST), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery
while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be
removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some
time ago about this and some had found different brands that
worked better than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
Two sets here in two tool boxes. I keep a spare battery in their
cases - expect to have to change at least annually. If you only
pick them up once, every year or two, then dead batteries will be
no surprise.
Think about that for a minute. If I can\'t expect a battery in an
unused device to last a year sitting in the case, why would I expect
an extra battery to be good?
A disconnected battery will last significantly longer than one that is
being actively drained because the \'off\' button was interpreted by the
Chinese engineer as \"turn off the display\" instead of as \"use as little
quiescent current as possible\".
That doesn\'t take a year, and I have no use for such a device. That\'s my point. I\'m looking for a device that won\'t drain the battery, because it actually turns off.
a genuine Mitutoyo doesn\'t really turn off it doesn\'t need to, it uses so little current it doesn\'t matter, something like less than a 1 uA
it\'ll last years on a battery
I don\'t know why you say it doesn\'t turn off. The oscillator stops running, I\'m sure. The LCD is not being driven. The sensors are not being checked.. In short, every part of the design is not functioning, and being CMOS, draws infinitely little power. Or, they may have a p-fet in series with the power, either internal to the chip, or external to the chip. None of this matters, because they have effectively stopped the power drain by actually ceasing to operate.
Do you have any info on the actual design?
On 11/11/2022 23:42, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 1:03:14 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/11/2022 15:40, Ricky wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some time ago about this and some had found different brands that worked better than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
The ones with an on/off switch!
Actually mine just has an on switch and times out after a few minutes.
I suppose I was not clear as to my meaning by \"on/off\" switch. They typically have a push button to turn on. I\'ve never seen one with a mechanical switch to directly disconnect the battery. Turning them off by the push button seems to only mute the display.
It does turn off the display and likely puts the MCU into deeper sleep.
I have one of these, needs a new battery every 3-4 years, cost me
something like $10 or $20, don\'t remember. Is quite accurate, I also
have a micrometer (I do have a mechanical workshop, lathe etc. and I
am quite experienced doing that sort of thing, too) and they match
really well, if you know how to use it you can rely on it all the
way down to its 0.01mm resolution.
Keeping a blister of cr2032-s has you covered for at least a decade.
How long do you expect your battery to work?
Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
On 12/11/2022 9:00 am, Ricky wrote:
I just thought by now, there might be lower cost units that don\'t drain
the battery. It\'s a damn simple circuit to implement that. I don\'t
even think it requires a separate part. It\'s just a p-channel pass
transistor with the switch as a bypass. Can\'t they put that on the
chip and bring out a pin for the push button switch to bypass the pfet?
I guess it\'s a matter of them selling a bazillion of the ones they are
making now. Why would they change?
But once one of the low cost devices starts bragging about not draining
the battery, they will all have to switch. It doesn\'t take much sales
pressure when you are only making a few cents per device.
Yes. The actual circuitry required is really simple. I think it\'s not
included because if the thing is powered down, it loses its zero
position (there are more advanced designs that have absolute
positioning, but they probably cost more to make).
So it may come down to that. People would notice the loss of zero and
complain before they realise that the batteries run down quickly.
For me, I\'d probably zero it out of habit when I turn it on and not even
notice the loss, but perhaps people differ.
Sylvia.
I have an Igaging EZ Cal Fractional Digital Caliper. It measures mm, inch,
and fractional inch (128 parts). It has an on/off switch and retains zero
when it is off.
I can turn it off, then extend the caliper several inches. When I turn it
back on, it shows the new reading accurately.
I then turn it back off, and move the caliper back to zero. When I turn it
on, it reads 0.000
The battery lasts forever. I bought a bunch of spare 2032 on amazon
expecting they would only last a few months. It has been years, and the
display is still sharp and clear. I haven\'t had to replace a single
battery.
The company is www.igaging.com, San Clemente, CA
The caliper is CAD$65.33 on Amazon Canada
https://www.amazon.ca/iGaging-0-6-Inch-Display-Digital-
Caliper/dp/B001AQEZ2W/
It is the best caliper I have ever owned.
Thanks for the info. I ordered a similar device.
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:21:44 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
snip
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
That is NOT \'apparent\'.
References in the literature, please.
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 6:27:40 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/11/2022 9:00 am, Ricky wrote:
I just thought by now, there might be lower cost units that don\'t drain the battery. It\'s a damn simple circuit to implement that. I don\'t even think it requires a separate part. It\'s just a p-channel pass transistor with the switch as a bypass. Can\'t they put that on the chip and bring out a pin for the push button switch to bypass the pfet?
I guess it\'s a matter of them selling a bazillion of the ones they are making now. Why would they change?
But once one of the low cost devices starts bragging about not draining the battery, they will all have to switch. It doesn\'t take much sales pressure when you are only making a few cents per device.
Yes. The actual circuitry required is really simple. I think it\'s not
included because if the thing is powered down, it loses its zero
position (there are more advanced designs that have absolute
positioning, but they probably cost more to make).
So it may come down to that. People would notice the loss of zero and
complain before they realise that the batteries run down quickly.
For me, I\'d probably zero it out of habit when I turn it on and not even
notice the loss, but perhaps people differ.
Like you, I always auto zero calipers, including the dial variety if I\'m trying to make a good measurement. It\'s hard to think anyone would expect zero to not drift, but many people don\'t understand electronics and seem to think digital is supposed
to be as accurate as the display can indicate. That is seldom true.
You mean like
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:21:44 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
snip
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
That is NOT \'apparent\'.
References in the literature, please.
On 2022-11-13 15:44, legg wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:21:44 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
snip
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
That is NOT \'apparent\'.
References in the literature, please.
I saw somewhere someone that had bought some batteries, and claimed they
did not last as long (years) as the label said they would, that they
leaked. The manufacturer (Duracell or Energizer) said that as the
batteries had been used for a short time (a day?), the warranty was
void, that the chemical processes had started.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:43:35 -0800 (PST), Lamont Cranston
amd...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 9:40:10 AM UTC-6, Ricky wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some time ago about this and some had found different brands that worked better than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
I don\'t, but that is the reason I buy dial calipers, I buy cheap, but stainless steel calipers (they make plastic dial calipers) .
I misuse them by scribing lines, but that function is so handy, it is worth replacing a set occasionally.
Mikek
The good ones last forever. I like the analog display too.
I scribe lines on copperclad FR4 and that doesn\'t seem top dull the
points. They could be sharpened too.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
Yeah. The expensive ones, like Mitutoyo.
On 11/11/2022 21:42, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 1:03:14 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 11/11/2022 15:40, Ricky wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery
while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be
removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some
time ago about this and some had found different brands that
worked better than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the
battery?
The ones with an on/off switch! Actually mine just has an on switch
and times out after a few minutes.
I suppose I was not clear as to my meaning by \"on/off\" switch. They
typically have a push button to turn on. I\'ve never seen one with a
mechanical switch to directly disconnect the battery. Turning them
off by the push button seems to only mute the display.
Mine seem to last a year or so. LCD display when done in bare metal
takes so little power that muting the display is pointless.
I don\'t see battery life as an issue. YMMV
On 2022-11-12 18:36, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:02:46 PM UTC-4, legg wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:40:06 -0800 (PST), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some time ago about this and some had found different brands that worked better than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
Two sets here in two tool boxes. I keep a spare battery in their
cases - expect to have to change at least annually. If you only
pick them up once, every year or two, then dead batteries will be
no surprise.
Think about that for a minute. If I can\'t expect a battery in an unused device to last a year sitting in the case, why would I expect an extra battery to be good? This is clearly bad product design. End of story.
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:43:57 AM UTC-8, legg wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:21:44 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
snip
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
That is NOT \'apparent\'.
References in the literature, please.
This does happen (battery manufacturers agree) in zinc-air batteries, which are
shipped with a sticker blocking air entry. The warranty on a battery is only for
its storage discharge rate (and is rather on the conservative side, I\'ve actually
measured useful charge in batteries aged 30 years).
On 2022-11-13 15:44, legg wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:21:44 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
snip
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
That is NOT \'apparent\'.
References in the literature, please.
I saw somewhere someone that had bought some batteries, and claimed they
did not last as long (years) as the label said they would, that they
leaked. The manufacturer (Duracell or Energizer) said that as the
batteries had been used for a short time (a day?), the warranty was
void, that the chemical processes had started.
Maybe I saw this on Amazon. Maybe it was a legal claim and that was the
conclusion. Maybe I read it on Usenet.
If you want an exact cite, you will have to google or keep an eye for
it. I saw it long ago and of course I don\'t remember exactly where nor
did I keep the link, sorry.
If you have a channel to ask a manufacturer to confirm or deny, that
would be wonderful.
Searching now, I found a site that says that there are batteries
designed for low drain devices, which would be the case with those calipers.
https://batteryspecialists.com.au/blogs/news/the-complete-guide-to-aaa-batteries
I know from personal experience that white or no name batteries tend to
leak earlier, before they are really spent, when used in things like
clocks or tv remotes.
On 12/11/2022 2:40 am, Ricky wrote:
I, like many others, have digital calipers that drain the battery
while sitting, and have no on/off switch, so the battery must be
removed when not being used. I recall a conversation here some time
ago about this and some had found different brands that worked better
than others, in this regard.
Anyone recall the names of the brands that don\'t drain the battery?
For the record, I got so tired of this problem that I bought a
non-electronic one. There\'s a slight learning curve, but they\'re very
easy to read to the nearest 0.1mm, and can do 0.02mm with a bit of effort.
Sylvia.
The company is www.igaging.com, San Clemente, CA
The caliper is CAD$65.33 on Amazon Canada
https://www.amazon.ca/iGaging-0-6-Inch-Display-Digital-
Caliper/dp/B001AQEZ2W/
It is the best caliper I have ever owned.
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge even if
you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is not valid once
you start using the battery even once, the chemistry inside changes.
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:21:44 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
snip
Apparently, once a battery is \"started\" it starts slowly losing charge
even if you put it again in a box, disconnected. The warranty date is
not valid once you start using the battery even once, the chemistry
inside changes.
That is NOT \'apparent\'.
References in the literature, please.