Defective meter?

[Arfa Daily]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:c4knf49bf9j21aqu2dtdafura8eo3sut1h@4ax.com...

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:55:50 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Since the power and gas utility companies told us
that the 30% hikes in the retail prices of their products were due to the
wholesale cost to them being based on the price of oil, now that this has
come back down to a 5 year low at around $62 a barrel, why are the
companies
not now re-cutting our bills by 30% ? Either their prices, and hence ours,
*are* based on the price of oil, or they're not. They can't have it both
ways.

Power companies buy fuel with long term contracts. If they negotiated
a 5 year contract for a fixed price when the price of fuel was high,
because they were afraid they wouldn't be able to get it at any price,
then their costs will remain high for 5 years. This happens every few
years and makes a great conspiracy theory for market manipulation by
suppliers.


Well, if that's the case - and with the price of crude being so variable,

I'm not sure that the OPEC countries would allow them to buy that far ahead
at a fixed tariff - how come they are managing to put the price of petrol
back down now ? Conspiracy theory, or not, it seems that everyone who has
financial control over our lives, makes sure that everything is on their
side under all circumstances, and it is in the government's interests to let
them do so, because of the tax revenue they collect. Whenever the base bank
rate goes up, all my bank borrowing - especially my home loan - goes up
overnight by at least as much as the bank rate has gone up, and usuall more.
Likewise petrol, when the oil rate goes up. But when base rates and oil go
back down ? We're still waiting three - four - five months later to get a
reduction of half what it went up by. The cost of heating and lighting our
homes - especially this side of the pond - has been hiked to levels
bordering on insane, and someone, somewhere, must have an agenda that is
keeping it so ...

Arfa
--

Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[greenpjs]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:08:11 +0100, "Jeff Layman"
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

CJT wrote:

Mine doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too stupid
to make the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive
inactivity. All the more reason to spend $500 on a computer-based
DVR project.

Most computers will also draw power even when off.

Depends what you mean by "off".

IMHO, "off" doesn't mean "standby", "sleep","hibernate", or anything else
other than "off". And "off" means just that - no power consumption at all.
If you can't get "off" with a switch on the PC case, just pull the power
plug from the mains supply socket.
Don't lump hibernate in with the rest. Hibernate is really off but it

saves RAM contents to disk first so startup will be faster.

 

[Puckdropper]

glenzabr@nospam.xmission.com (GMAN) wrote in
news:gdhag8$ia6$2@news.xmission.com:

In article <48fbf6f9$0$10429$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

Mine [DVR] doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too
stupid to make the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive
inactivity. All the more reason to spend $500 on a computer-based DVR
project.

Its needed to run constantly on Tivo's and other similar dvr's so that
the 30 minute buffer can record.

How do you think you can pause, rewind and fast forward with these
units?

At least it's doing something. Mine's basically a VCR with a hard disk
instead of a tape. There's no reason for the hard disk to be running
all the time, if instant record is desired than a sizeable RAM buffer
should be used.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

 

[Samuel M. Goldwasser]

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> writes:

glenzabr@nospam.xmission.com (GMAN) wrote in
news:gdhag8$ia6$2@news.xmission.com:

In article <48fbf6f9$0$10429$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

Mine [DVR] doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too
stupid to make the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive
inactivity. All the more reason to spend $500 on a computer-based DVR
project.

Its needed to run constantly on Tivo's and other similar dvr's so that
the 30 minute buffer can record.

How do you think you can pause, rewind and fast forward with these
units?

At least it's doing something. Mine's basically a VCR with a hard disk
instead of a tape. There's no reason for the hard disk to be running
all the time, if instant record is desired than a sizeable RAM buffer
should be used.

And it wouldn't take much of a microbrain to figure out that it needed
to spin up 30 minutes before the record time.

They may feel that it's more reliable to keep the drive spinning all the
time.

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[Claude Hopper]

CJT wrote:

Claude Hopper wrote:

CJT wrote:

Claude Hopper wrote:

I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100
kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow.
So I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker
and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

Look inside your breaker box for lizards, bugs, surge arrestors,
carbonized patches, moisture, etc. on the upstream side of the main
breaker. You could also try snapping the main breakers out completely.

Is it an "old-style" meter or a newer electronic one?



I bought this house 2 years ago which had all new wiring, new panel and
everything is shiny new inside the box. It's a 'spinning disk meter'.
A digital might not even show this leakage.

If it's that new, it probably has (as another poster noted) remote
readout so they don't have to send out a meter reader. That consumes
power.

No, the meter guy get out of his truck and comes up to the house every
month. It's a spinning disk meter, not a digital.

 

[Claude Hopper]

Jeff Layman wrote:

CJT wrote:
Mine doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too stupid
to make the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive
inactivity. All the more reason to spend $500 on a computer-based
DVR project.
Most computers will also draw power even when off.

Depends what you mean by "off".

IMHO, "off" doesn't mean "standby", "sleep","hibernate", or anything else
other than "off". And "off" means just that - no power consumption at all.
If you can't get "off" with a switch on the PC case, just pull the power
plug from the mains supply socket.

I have everything on power strips that have OFF switches. That's what I

turn off.

 

[Claude Hopper]

greenpjs wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:08:11 +0100, "Jeff Layman"
jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

CJT wrote:
Mine doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too stupid
to make the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive
inactivity. All the more reason to spend $500 on a computer-based
DVR project.
Most computers will also draw power even when off.
Depends what you mean by "off".

IMHO, "off" doesn't mean "standby", "sleep","hibernate", or anything else
other than "off". And "off" means just that - no power consumption at all.
If you can't get "off" with a switch on the PC case, just pull the power
plug from the mains supply socket.
Don't lump hibernate in with the rest. Hibernate is really off but it
saves RAM contents to disk first so startup will be faster.

Seems like if you don't load up ram it would be faster.

 

[Claude Hopper]

GMAN wrote:

In article <48fbf6f9$0$10429$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in
news:a46dnWwerdL9V2bVnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@giganews.com:

I noticed that my DVR harddrive NEVER spins down even in standby. I
can hear it spin down when I hit the power strip off button. That
should be part of standby, powering down the HD. If their junk can't
stand being shut down and breaks they will just have to replace it.
When I want something off I mean off, not half off, not one quarter
off, I MEAN OFF.

Mine doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too stupid to make
the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive inactivity. All the more
reason to spend $500 on a computer-based DVR project.

Its needed to run constantly on Tivo's and other similar dvr's so that the 30
minute buffer can record.

How do you think you can pause, rewind and fast forward with these units?

All that shit works when I have it on. I only watch TV between 7 and
11pm. Turn the dvr on at 6. Why have it on from 11pm to 6 pm the next
day for nothing? That's 19 hours of wasted energy.

Off should mean off, as in no current draw. Plugging in a device should
never mean "turn on" either.

Puckdropper

 

[Claude Hopper]

GMAN wrote:

In article <jdRKk.3061$W06.3029@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>, Bennett Price <""bjpriceNOSPAM\"@NOSPAMcal berkeley.edu"> wrote:
Claude Hopper wrote:
I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow. So I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.
Can't help with usage despite main breaker off but with it on you've
probably got a doorbell xformer and perhaps a furnace/AC xformer. Any
light switches with neon glow in the dark features? electric clocks
that don't run on batteries?

Whole house fire detecters?
None of that crap is on when the MAIN BREAKER IS OFF, get it?

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:a46dnWwerdL9V2bVnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@giganews.com...

Arfa Daily wrote:
"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:K4KdnaQdINVA-mbVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...
I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc..

As I've commented on here before, you may come to regret that. Switch
mode
power supplies do not like being fired from a cold start all the time.
They
are designed these days with standby efficiency in mind, and the
manufacturers' choices of components, assume that they will be left
running
continuously. Most either make use of a 'burst' mode that actually
results
in a very low overall standby consumption, or have a separate section
which
is just a tiny and very efficient standby supply. Standby modes often
also
'mask' important housekeeping tasks, as well as being there to satisfy
our
fundamental laziness ...

Most 'secret' power consumption comes from much more power-hungry devices
than these, such as fridges, freezers, central heating pumps, and so on,
but
here's a question for you. Since the power and gas utility companies told
us
that the 30% hikes in the retail prices of their products were due to the
wholesale cost to them being based on the price of oil, now that this has
come back down to a 5 year low at around $62 a barrel, why are the
companies
not now re-cutting our bills by 30% ? Either their prices, and hence
ours,
*are* based on the price of oil, or they're not. They can't have it both
ways.

Arfa





I noticed that my DVR harddrive NEVER spins down even in standby. I can
hear it spin down when I hit the power strip off button. That should be
part of standby, powering down the HD. If their junk can't stand being
shut down and breaks they will just have to replace it.

Ah yes. I completely forgot that manufacturers and their sales agents are
really willing to replace something that has failed 1 month outside its
warranty ...

When I want something off I mean off, not half off, not one quarter off, I
MEAN OFF.

Well then, don't buy equipment that has no proper facility to be turned all
the way off. I've explained to you why this is the case with a lot of items.
If you choose to ignore that you might be compromising the equipment's
reliability, that's up to you. I mend this stuff for a living, and see
failed smps all the time, and the failures have very often taken place after
repowering from a full cold switch off, like "It worked fine before I went
on holiday, then when I returned and plugged it back in, it went bang /
smoked / never came back on ... "

Arfa

 

[PeterD]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:12:03 -0400, Claude Hopper
<boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:

CJT wrote:
Claude Hopper wrote:
I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow. So I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

Look inside your breaker box for lizards, bugs, surge arrestors,
carbonized patches, moisture, etc. on the upstream side of the main
breaker. You could also try snapping the main breakers out completely.

Is it an "old-style" meter or a newer electronic one?


I bought this house 2 years ago which had all new wiring, new panel and
everything is shiny new inside the box. It's a 'spinning disk meter'.
A digital might not even show this leakage.

Can you get your hands on a clamp-on ampmeter? Try that to see if
there is current being drawn inside on the main breaker leads.

 

[Jeff Layman]

greenpjs wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:08:11 +0100, "Jeff Layman"
jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

CJT wrote:

Mine doesn't either. I guess the DVR manufacturers are too stupid
to make the hard disk spin down after 30 minutes of drive
inactivity. All the more reason to spend $500 on a computer-based
DVR project.

Most computers will also draw power even when off.

Depends what you mean by "off".

IMHO, "off" doesn't mean "standby", "sleep","hibernate", or anything
else other than "off". And "off" means just that - no power
consumption at all. If you can't get "off" with a switch on the PC
case, just pull the power plug from the mains supply socket.
Don't lump hibernate in with the rest. Hibernate is really off but it
saves RAM contents to disk first so startup will be faster.

Hibernate is _not_ "off". See
http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2005/12/09/standby-or-hibernate-xp/

And neither is "Turn off computer" (in XP Home, at least). If I choose
that, all the fans eventually stop, and the screen turns off, and the power
indicator led goes out. BUT the optical mouse led stays on. Only by
switching off the PC does that led go out.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:12:24 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:c4knf49bf9j21aqu2dtdafura8eo3sut1h@4ax.com...
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:55:50 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Since the power and gas utility companies told us
that the 30% hikes in the retail prices of their products were due to the
wholesale cost to them being based on the price of oil, now that this has
come back down to a 5 year low at around $62 a barrel, why are the
companies
not now re-cutting our bills by 30% ? Either their prices, and hence ours,
*are* based on the price of oil, or they're not. They can't have it both
ways.

Power companies buy fuel with long term contracts. If they negotiated
a 5 year contract for a fixed price when the price of fuel was high,
because they were afraid they wouldn't be able to get it at any price,
then their costs will remain high for 5 years. This happens every few
years and makes a great conspiracy theory for market manipulation by
suppliers.

Well, if that's the case - and with the price of crude being so variable,
I'm not sure that the OPEC countries would allow them to buy that far ahead
at a fixed tariff - how come they are managing to put the price of petrol
back down now ?

Oil prices at the pump in the colonies have dropped about 15% in the
last 3 months.
<http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx>
(click on the "1 year" button).

Historical prices back to the stone age:
<http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html>

At the risk of drifting an already off topic discussion in the
quagmire of politics, the length of the contracts is often measured in
decades. They vary from spot oil, which is allegedly for immediate
delivery to futures, which can be many years out.
<http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html>
Why oil prices go up and down are more under the control of the buyer
than the sellers. If the buyers panic and suspect that oil will be
scarce in the future, they tend to buy farther into the future, which
causes a drop in the future available supply for other buyers, which
raises prices.

To make things more complexicated, the major consumers are buying
less. China, which was directly responsible for a dramatic increase
in consumption, has now decreased its imports now that factories are
closing. I'm also seeing that in the price of electronic scrap which
has plunged now that China isn't buying as much.

The price of oil is also heavily dependent on the purchase of oil
futures and contracts, which dramatically decrease in a recession.
Since that's the current universal concern, the price of oil has been
dropping in anticipation of eventual collapse. This article covers
the basics:
<http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24526609-664,00.html>

Lastly, we have an election going in the former colonies. To prevent
rioting in the streets and at the pump, the price of oil has to remain
low and the future optimistic, or the wrong person might get elected.
Can't let that happen. Of course, after the election, it will be
business as usual.

Conspiracy theory, or not, it seems that everyone who has
financial control over our lives, makes sure that everything is on their
side under all circumstances, and it is in the government's interests to let
them do so, because of the tax revenue they collect.

Yep. It should be obvious that the government has no interest in
lowering its own revenue. Never mind that a reduction in taxes have
historically and consistently improved the economy and produced tax
revenue increases. These are the days of short term planning, where
everyone wants their piece of my pie right now, not later. Cutting
taxes to stimulate the economy isn't even in the discussion between
both leading candidates. It's sad.

Whenever the base bank
rate goes up, all my bank borrowing - especially my home loan - goes up
overnight by at least as much as the bank rate has gone up, and usuall more.

Refinance to a fixed rate. I've never even looked at adjustable loans
because I knew that over a 30 year loan period, the rate was sure to
rise at least once. I've had two loans that I carried for 25 and 27
years respectively. A fixed rate loan cost me somewhat more at the
beginning, but was well worth it. Do the math.

Likewise petrol, when the oil rate goes up. But when base rates and oil go
back down ? We're still waiting three - four - five months later to get a
reduction of half what it went up by. The cost of heating and lighting our
homes - especially this side of the pond - has been hiked to levels
bordering on insane, and someone, somewhere, must have an agenda that is
keeping it so ...

Of course there's an agenda. At the bottom of the problem is the
distinction between a "planned economy" and the "free market". In the
former, the government juggles prices for its benefit. In the latter,
the participants engage in price manipulation. The effects on prices
are identical. It really depends on who's in control this week.

Even a temporary or dramatic change in oil prices will have ripple
effects that will last for years. See:
<http://www.wtrg.com/daily/clfclose.gif>
I would say 3 months since the peak. Also note that every time
there's a drop in oil prices, OPEC constricts the supply, which raises
prices back up:
<http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRrIbV9vViHrok9Wf3JF4EpGB0PA>
My guess(tm) is that the reason oil based products haven't declined in
price is the effect of long term contracts I previously mentioned.

Oil is also "inflexible" which in economics means that a small change
in demand will create a hugely disproportionate change in price. This
tends to create wildly oscillating prices resulting from small changes
in demand.

Also note that oil isn't the only thing that has increased in price.
Try looking at the metals market. The price buyers are willing to pay
for scrap and ore have dropped, but the price of finished products is
still climbing daily:
<http://www.metalprices.com>

Arfa

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:02:35 -0400, Claude Hopper
<boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:

If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

The main breaker(s) are suppose to disconnect the entire house. If
there's any residual current drain, it's coming from somewhere other
than the house load. The problem is that anything drawing current
inside the breaker box will also be creating some heating. Check for
local heating, especially in the main breakers.

Some guesswork:

- I like the dead rat theory. Carbonized critter draws current.

- Are you sure you're turning off BOTH main breakers? In a 2 phase
home system, there are usually two breakers, one for each phase, with
a connecting bar to insure that they're both on or off simultaneously
(or you get excessive neutral wire current).

- The main breakers might be broken (leaking). This is dubious
because there's no path between these breakers and the common
(neutral).

- The main breakers may not be turning off. You may think they're
both off, but something internal is holding them on. If there is any
residual drain in the house load, it will show up with this failure.

- Defective meter. Document it (video showing the meter spinning with
the main breakers off) so you can get a refund from the power company.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:18:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Oil prices at the pump in the colonies have dropped about 15% in the
last 3 months.
http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx
(click on the "1 year" button).

Incidentally, the price of retail regular gas has NOT been following
the price of crude oil. Try the "custom chart" on the above page and
check the "show crude oil" box. Crude oil had had dramatic changes in
price, with substantially smaller changes in retail prices.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jim Yanik]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:ksbpf45vk9i9j0bjutp04r8m9dvltq7uh1@4ax.com:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:02:35 -0400, Claude Hopper
boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:

If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

The main breaker(s) are suppose to disconnect the entire house. If
there's any residual current drain, it's coming from somewhere other
than the house load. The problem is that anything drawing current
inside the breaker box will also be creating some heating. Check for
local heating, especially in the main breakers.

Some guesswork:

- I like the dead rat theory. Carbonized critter draws current.

- Are you sure you're turning off BOTH main breakers? In a 2 phase
home system, there are usually two breakers, one for each phase, with
a connecting bar to insure that they're both on or off simultaneously
(or you get excessive neutral wire current).

- The main breakers might be broken (leaking). This is dubious
because there's no path between these breakers and the common
(neutral).

- The main breakers may not be turning off. You may think they're
both off, but something internal is holding them on. If there is any
residual drain in the house load, it will show up with this failure.

- Defective meter. Document it (video showing the meter spinning with
the main breakers off) so you can get a refund from the power company.

Document it with the main breakers PULLED.
then you are certain that there's no connection to the home's wiring.

A voltmeter ought to show if there's voltage on the output side of the
breakers,if one happens to be leaking or internally still ON.
even better if you can get a clamp-on ammeter around each wire on the home-
side of each main breaker.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[WW]

"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:K4KdnaQdINVA-mbVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...

I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow. So I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

CH
As a retired electric meterman, Tho only meters I found doing this with no
connected load was after a near by lightning strike. This could have
happened any time in the past. Call utility company to check it out. If no
response from them call the PUC (public utility commission). Colorado has
this. (PUC) WW

 

[WW]

"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:6fmdncZlPqXlbWHVnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@giganews.com...

WW wrote:
"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:K4KdnaQdINVA-mbVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...
I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow. So I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

CH
As a retired electric meterman, Tho only meters I found doing this with
no
connected load was after a near by lightning strike. This could have
happened any time in the past. Call utility company to check it out. If
no
response from them call the PUC (public utility commission). Colorado has
this. (PUC) WW



So it is possible for lightening to affect an electric meter?

Yes. Damages the potential coil in the meter. WW

 

[Arfa Daily]

"WW" <ccco@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:mcqdnaD0cobfYmDVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@bresnan.com...

"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:6fmdncZlPqXlbWHVnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@giganews.com...
WW wrote:
"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:K4KdnaQdINVA-mbVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...
I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh
a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow. So
I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker
and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

CH
As a retired electric meterman, Tho only meters I found doing this with
no
connected load was after a near by lightning strike. This could have
happened any time in the past. Call utility company to check it out. If
no
response from them call the PUC (public utility commission). Colorado
has
this. (PUC) WW



So it is possible for lightening to affect an electric meter?

Yes. Damages the potential coil in the meter. WW

This reference is quite a good description of how the electromechanical type
of watt-hour meter works

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

Interestingly, it says that the meter itself consumes about 2 watts, but it
doesn't say if that is all the time, irrespective of whether there is
household current being drawn, or not.I rather suspect that it is all the
time, and is the power required to feed the voltage and lag coils, which are
probably slung directly across the incoming supply - but probably after the
current sensing coil - in which case, this 2 watts of consumption will be
metered, and hence paid for by the consumer.

Question for WW as an ex-meter reader. Are you aware of electro-mechanical
meters having a certified lifetime, and whether they do actually go out of
calibration? And if they do, whether it's typically to the loss of the
supply company, or the consumer ? The reason I ask, is that the utility
company keep sending me letters (addressed to "The Occupier" so good excuse
to ignore them) requesting that I contact them to arrange a time to come and
replace my meter for one of the new electronic ones. I get the feeling that
the 'certified lifetime' tack, is just a smokescreen to get you to have a
remotely readable electronic meter put in for their convenience, but I would
be interested in hearing if anybody has any sure knowledge of what the real
reasons are.

Arfa

 

[Mark D. Zacharias]

"Claude Hopper" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:K4KdnaQdINVA-mbVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...

I have been cutting power usage in my home. I have saved about 100 kwh a
month so far. I put power strips on all the vampire stuff like DVR, TV,
Stereo, DVD players, etc.. I shut of light timers and motion detectors.
With the fridge off I still get meter spin, though it is very slow. So I
shut of the power breaker to the smoke detectors. Meter still spins.
Found my electric tooth brush charger on, shut that off, meter still
spins. Drill charger in the garage, shut that off, meter still spins.
I can't think of anything else. I shut off the Mains 100 amp breaker and
guess what? The goddamn meter still spins, though slightly, about 30
seconds a click. So nothing is on and my meter spins, what is it, the
meter itself? I'm paying for the power company's meter power?
Check your meter by shutting of your main breaker and see if the meter
still spins. If I have a defective meter I'd like to know.

According to an instructor I had in tech school in 1980: yes, you pay for
the power the meter consumes. Should be quite minimal, though.

Mark Z.