DC transformer

[Piotr Wyderski]

www.paytongroup.com/webfiles/files/OTS350.pdf

Read carefully. It seems I have always underestimated the technological
progress...

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Tim Williams]

A common shorthand, what they mean is for a typical (probably [active clamp]
flyback or the like) topology with that as the DC supply.

Digi-Key's catalog shows a similar shorthand on hundreds of parts.

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

"Piotr Wyderski" <peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote in message
news:qoh41f$rap$2@gioia.aioe.org...

www.paytongroup.com/webfiles/files/OTS350.pdf

Read carefully. It seems I have always underestimated the technological
progress...

Best regards, Piotr

 

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:57:39 AM UTC-7, Piotr Wyderski wrote:

www.paytongroup.com/webfiles/files/OTS350.pdf

Read carefully. It seems I have always underestimated the technological
progress...

Best regards, Piotr

I think they forgot the "m". 350mW?

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 09:13:29 -0500, Tim Williams wrote:

A common shorthand, what they mean is for a typical (probably [active
clamp]
flyback or the like) topology with that as the DC supply.

Digi-Key's catalog shows a similar shorthand on hundreds of parts.

Tim

And a generous interpretation indeed of "planar" IMHO.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Winfield Hill]

edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote...

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:57:39 AM UTC-7, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
www.paytongroup.com/webfiles/files/OTS350.pdf

Read carefully. It seems I have always underestimated the technological
progress...

Best regards, Piotr

I think they forgot the "m". 350mW?

No, the largest type are 350W max, but only with
a heat sink (PCB with Aluminum substrate). That
one has two "planar" PCBs with the turns. The
smallest 40W version has only one PCB with both
primary and secondary turns. Payton calls them
planar, even tho they mount above your PCB, 14mm
high in the case of the 350-watt version.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:letoqetl52cvj4bd23gpecqqm2a576u7nv@4ax.com:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 14:19:04 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 09:13:29 -0500, Tim Williams wrote:

A common shorthand, what they mean is for a typical (probably
[active clamp]
flyback or the like) topology with that as the DC supply.

Digi-Key's catalog shows a similar shorthand on hundreds of
parts.

Tim

And a generous interpretation indeed of "planar" IMHO.

The windings are planar, namely PC boards,

One can build transformers like this with the windings part of the
main power supply PCB.

Just use an Archimedean spiral and one can even pair up the
windings if it is low voltage.

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 14:19:04 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 09:13:29 -0500, Tim Williams wrote:

A common shorthand, what they mean is for a typical (probably [active
clamp]
flyback or the like) topology with that as the DC supply.

Digi-Key's catalog shows a similar shorthand on hundreds of parts.

Tim

And a generous interpretation indeed of "planar" IMHO.

The windings are planar, namely PC boards,

One can build transformers like this with the windings part of the
main power supply PCB.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 09:13:29 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:

flyback or the like) topology with that as the DC supply.

Probably forward converter, which doesn't have to store energy so
allows a small core.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qohta001j9c@drn.newsguy.com:

edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote...

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:57:39 AM UTC-7, Piotr Wyderski
wrote:
www.paytongroup.com/webfiles/files/OTS350.pdf

Read carefully. It seems I have always underestimated the
technological progress...

Best regards, Piotr

I think they forgot the "m". 350mW?

No, the largest type are 350W max, but only with
a heat sink (PCB with Aluminum substrate). That
one has two "planar" PCBs with the turns. The
smallest 40W version has only one PCB with both
primary and secondary turns. Payton calls them
planar, even tho they mount above your PCB, 14mm
high in the case of the 350-watt version.

'Planar' in transformer nomenclature, used to refer to how the
winding is arrayed. Not so much 'co-planar' to the PCB, but each
turn in the same plane.

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:57:39 AM UTC-7, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
www.paytongroup.com/webfiles/files/OTS350.pdf

Read carefully. It seems I have always underestimated the technological
progress...

Best regards, Piotr

I think they forgot the "m". 350mW?

No. These planar transformers are impressive.

Coilcraft has planars up to 800 watts.

https://www.coilcraft.com/prod_planar.cfm



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 07:58:53 -0700, jlarkin wrote:

> The windings are planar, namely PC boards,

"Up to 350W planar transformers" clearly boasts the *transformers*
themselves are planar, John.

One can build transformers like this with the windings part of the main
power supply PCB.

Not relevant in this instance.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:34:42 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 07:58:53 -0700, jlarkin wrote:

The windings are planar, namely PC boards,

"Up to 350W planar transformers" clearly boasts the *transformers*
themselves are planar, John.

Does it? The industry refers to this construction as a planar
transformer. Google it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_transformers

But "boast" ? In lowercase grey type? They are, among other things,
establishing a search target.

One can build transformers like this with the windings part of the main
power supply PCB.

Not relevant in this instance.

It might be to people who actually design electronics. You know,
people who aren't hostile to having ideas.

I think I might try making a transmission-line transformer embedded in
a multilayer PC board. They are usually a nuisance to make. I'll throw
some test cases on my next multi-idea proto board.

The little Murata dc/dc converters that I like are all PCB
construction, but with a ferrite toroid embedded inside the board, and
windings a combination of traces and vias.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpig8jkn4nc8dys/AABCtke6gbAa0OYKhPWHLj6Ra?dl=0



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:29:41 -0700, jlarkin wrote:

I think I might try making a transmission-line transformer embedded in a
multilayer PC board. They are usually a nuisance to make. I'll throw
some test cases on my next multi-idea proto board.

Great! I look forward to seeing the pictures in due course.


--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:59:02 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 14:19:04 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 09:13:29 -0500, Tim Williams wrote:

A common shorthand, what they mean is for a typical (probably [active
clamp]
flyback or the like) topology with that as the DC supply.

Digi-Key's catalog shows a similar shorthand on hundreds of parts.

Tim

And a generous interpretation indeed of "planar" IMHO.

The windings are planar, namely PC boards,

One can build transformers like this with the windings part of the
main power supply PCB.

You do need to go to a specialist printed circuit board shop if you want to do it right. It needs a lot layers of of thin substrate and some very thick copper winding tracks if you want to fill even half of the winding window with copper.

The outer layers can get by thinner copper (which does allows narrower tracks).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Tim Williams]

"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:8a9a70b7-a792-4184-a737-f234ea77dee6@googlegroups.com...

You do need to go to a specialist printed circuit board shop if you want
to do it right. It needs a lot layers of of thin substrate and some very
thick copper winding tracks if you want to fill even half of the winding
window with copper.

The outer layers can get by thinner copper (which does allows narrower
tracks).

Half!? Impossible from any fab I'm aware of. Fortunately the winding
length is short and the heat transfer is good, so it's not a big deal to use
high current density. 10% winding factor is good when you're talking
planars, and it's really not very different from say a toroid winding, which
has similar aspect ratios.

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

--------------------------------------

Not relevant in this instance.

It might be to people who actually design electronics.
?

** Try getting JL to explain just what HE thinks that means.

Cos he has very weird ideas on the topic.

You know, people who aren't hostile to having ideas.

** Who's ideas are they ?

JL's or other peoples ??

IME, here and elsewhere over the last 50 years, electronics designers are the most HOLSTILE group that exists when it comes to any idea THEY did not come up with.

Cos they are SUCH ginormous egomaniacs and colossal bullshitters.

Never met or heard of a genuinely modest one.

Don't exist.

FYI:

Rowan Atkinson ( comedian & EE ) commented very pointedly that:

" Electronics Engineers are THE the most obnoxious people on earth "

Think he said it on " Parkinson" one evening.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

Bill Sloman wrote:

------------------

Cos they are SUCH ginormous egomaniacs and colossal bullshitters.

Never met any architects have you?

** I knew one very well - Phil Anstey.

Had a degree in architecture, but ran a disco hire business when I knew him..

Totally conceited & obnoxious, much like the characters Atkinson plays.

" Electronics Engineers are THE the most obnoxious people on earth "

Think he said it on " Parkinson" one evening.

He did get his degree (in electrical engineering) from Newcastle. In 1975, he continued for the degree of MSc in Electrical Engineering at The Queen's College, Oxford, the same college where his father matriculated in 1935. His MSc thesis, published in 1978, considered the application of self-tuning control.

** Fascinating.

You have noticed that Atkinsion made his career playing repulsive and obnoxious characters like Blackadder & geeky nurds like Mr Bean ?

He meant what he said.



..... Phil

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:01:35 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:29:41 -0700, jlarkin wrote:

I think I might try making a transmission-line transformer embedded in a
multilayer PC board. They are usually a nuisance to make. I'll throw
some test cases on my next multi-idea proto board.

Great! I look forward to seeing the pictures in due course.

A buried strip-line should be non-dispersive - if you take the trouble to use a proper microwave substrate. It's not exactly an original idea.

You'd need X-rays to get a useful image.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 8:12:05 PM UTC+11, Phil Allison wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

--------------------------------------


Not relevant in this instance.

It might be to people who actually design electronics.
?


** Try getting JL to explain just what HE thinks that means.

Cos he has very weird ideas on the topic.

You know, people who aren't hostile to having ideas.


** Who's ideas are they ?

JL's or other peoples ??

IME, here and elsewhere over the last 50 years, electronics designers are the most HOSTILE group that exists when it comes to any idea THEY did not come up with.

"Not invented here" is popular across a much wider range of professions.

> Cos they are SUCH ginormous egomaniacs and colossal bullshitters.

Never met any architects have you?

Never met or heard of a genuinely modest one.

Don't exist.

They certainly don't advertise. That's what being modest is all about.

FYI:

Rowan Atkinson ( comedian & EE ) commented very pointedly that:

" Electronics Engineers are THE the most obnoxious people on earth "

Think he said it on " Parkinson" one evening.

He did get his degree (in electrical engineering) from Newcastle. In 1975, he continued for the degree of MSc in Electrical Engineering at The Queen's College, Oxford, the same college where his father matriculated in 1935. His MSc thesis, published in 1978, considered the application of self-tuning control.

Electronic engineers do tend to be a bit snooty about electrical engineers, and instrumentation and control is a bit too applied and industrial for the sort of people who like "The Art of Electronics".

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 8:12:51 PM UTC+11, Tim Williams wrote:

"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:8a9a70b7-a792-4184-a737-f234ea77dee6@googlegroups.com...

You do need to go to a specialist printed circuit board shop if you want
to do it right. It needs a lot layers of of thin substrate and some very
thick copper winding tracks if you want to fill even half of the winding
window with copper.

The outer layers can get by thinner copper (which does allows narrower
tracks).

Half!? Impossible from any fab I'm aware of. Fortunately the winding
length is short and the heat transfer is good, so it's not a big deal to use
high current density. 10% winding factor is good when you're talking
planars, and it's really not very different from say a toroid winding, which
has similar aspect ratios.

Perhaps. I spent half an hour at a trade show some years ago talking to a printed circuit guy who specialised in the business, and a couple of years ago we had thread here about a similar sort of firm. They could get the copper layer thicker than the substrate.

It's certainly going to worth talking to somebody like that.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney