Cut slot in metal enclosure door for ribbon keypad ?

M

mpm

Guest
We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084 standard cabinet. with some effort, I believe the door can be removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish, so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter = about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever, punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option to do that this time around.

Thanks!
 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 17:44:03 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084 standard cabinet. with some effort, I believe the door can be removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish, so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter = about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever, punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option to do that this time around.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Greenlee punch #229 , 9pin Dsub.

Cheers
 
fredag den 18. oktober 2019 kl. 02.44.08 UTC+2 skrev mpm:
We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084 standard cabinet.. with some effort, I believe the door can be removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish, so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter = about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever, punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option to do that this time around.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

clamp a template to the front and use a router with a guide bushing?

a 1/8 inch carbide bit shouldn't have a much of problem with a bit of steel
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:27:54 PM UTC-4, Martin Riddle wrote:

> Greenlee punch #229 , 9pin Dsub.

Good idea, and was actually mentioned today on the shop floor.
We actually have one, but it is broken (not on this job) and nobody replaced it.
I'm not real keen on a D-Sub hole shape, (as opposed to a slot), but I guess it would work.
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 8:44:08 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084 standard cabinet.. with some effort, I believe the door can be removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish, so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter = about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever, punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option to do that this time around.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I would tend to use a milling machine. to use a punch you need to locate the male and female dies. Would probably be cheaper to have a local machine shop do 75 than buy a die set. At least I would get a quote.

Dan
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 8:58:48 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
clamp a template to the front and use a router with a guide bushing?
a 1/8 inch carbide bit shouldn't have a much of problem with a bit of steel
Click to expand...

Humm... I wonder. (?)
I thought the heat might be a problem with the powder-coat finish (inside door).
Might be worth trying. (We might even own a router?)
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:51:12 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> I would tend to use a milling machine. to use a punch you need to locate the male and female dies. Would probably be cheaper to have a local machine shop do 75 than buy a die set. At least I would get a quote.

Uggh. That means we'd have to get accounting involved. :(

There are plenty of local machine shops; some affordable (others not!), and all take time and want plenty of engineering prints, etc.., even for simple stuff like this.

I'd really rather not shop it, (and of course, delivery would depend on their workload). It's not a rush job.. yet. But dealing w/ outside has always proven to be a bit of a hassle for the way we operate -- which I will grant unequivocally is pretty nutty most of the time.

Really? Machine shop for 75 cheaper vs. buying a press, die and punch?
Stuff must be more costly than I thought...? damn.
 
On 18.10.19 2:44, mpm wrote:
We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084 standard cabinet. with some effort, I believe the door can be removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish, so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter = about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever, punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option to do that this time around.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
circular sawblade,let it cut into the plate slowly,
and use a small a small iron file to finish start and end
of the cut.
Use new blade with fine teeth.
 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 17:44:03 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door
of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a
12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).
Click to expand...

Some of the membrane panel mount keypads are made to have the ribbon
cable enter from the rear of the keypad, not from along the edge. For
example:
<https://euimg.eworldtrade.com/uploads/user_products/4/2/product-279804-t-1522923406-o.png>
Just mill a slot for the ribbon cable, in the front door, under the
keypad, and you're done. Running an unprotected ribbon cable through
a door frame is going to trash the ribbon cable as soon as someone
misaligns the cable with the slot, and slams the door.

Could you perhaps disclose the maker and model of the keypad so we can
get a better picture of what you're working with and possibly
recommend an alternative mounting or keypad? Extra credit for a URL
or photo of the keypad.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 10:45:05 PM UTC-4, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 18.10.19 2:44, > circular sawblade,let it cut into the plate slowly,
and use a small a small iron file to finish start and end
of the cut.
Use new blade with fine teeth.
Click to expand...

We shipped the first 10 units using that exact approach.
I wasn't going to mention it because I was too embarrassed to admit it. :)

Results: Meh
The friction (heat) damages the finish, which you then have to cover up.
It's also a challenge to control the length of the finished cut, and then you have to file and protect the finished edge.

In a pinch, yeah. But not for the next 40 builds.

And YES, agree 100% - new blade with fine teeth is a MUST!!
The first box with existing saw blade was horrible.
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 11:42:06 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Just mill a slot for the ribbon cable, in the front door, under the
keypad, and you're done. Running an unprotected ribbon cable through
a door frame is going to trash the ribbon cable as soon as someone
misaligns the cable with the slot, and slams the door.

Could you perhaps disclose the maker and model of the keypad so we can
get a better picture of what you're working with and possibly
recommend an alternative mounting or keypad? Extra credit for a URL
or photo of the keypad.
Click to expand...

Keypad ordered (QTY-50) from jrpanel.com
This design has one membrane button (poppel type), and (9) embedded LED's.
About 150 x 200 mm, with a decent length tail. I was expecting a quick-turn prototype quality part, but I have to say, for the money and calendar, jrpanel's probably going to be hard to beat. The only thing that's weird about the whole JRP experience is they just want a full-size PDF image to make the part - not a Gerber, etc.. And they don't provide any tools to get that done. I designed this one in Photoshop Elements (believe it or not).

Anyway, the cabinet door opens to the left. One of our engineers had the idea to bring the ribbon tail UNDER the circuit board to connect, using a right angle 0.1" pitch header. Works perfectly, and keeps the ribbon out of the way of where hands need to be in the box to install it. Also, it prevents the ribbon from getting caught up in the door latch and gaskets. (Wish I could take credit for the approach.) :)

Oh, and yes, the ribbon exits from the approximate center of the keypad, not the edge. Using 3M 300LSE adhesive, I'm hoping the box retains NEMA-4 rating (if/when) we test for that. But I'm not really worried that much about it, "should work". Ha! (Sounds like one of those "famous last words"....)

BTW: I may have learned of JRPanel here on SED, and if so, a belated thanks to whoever posted it. It was basically one-week in our hands, from design to finished goods. And the quality, "look-&-feel", and the Pantone color match was actually pretty good - not that it mattered in this case. Bottom line: the result is certainly sellable. The only weird part is the PDF design requirement.

And before you ask: I do think next time we might consider NOT embedding the LED's. They look fine and work great, but it did raise the cost per keypad a bit. Didn't really matter for this job since we already had the correct color, factory-stock cabinets in inventory - whatever savings there was would have been eaten up in labor drilling all those discrete holes for an LED daughter board mounted to the inside of the door. And we save 6-weeks on production not waiting for pre-punched, color cabinets.
 
On 2019-10-18, mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote:
We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a
metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor
ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the
data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084
standard cabinet. with some effort, I believe the door can be
removed? TBD.
Click to expand...

contract out to some guys with a water jet.



--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
On 2019-10-18, mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:51:12 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
I would tend to use a milling machine. to use a punch you need to locate the male and female dies. Would probably be cheaper to have a local machine shop do 75 than buy a die set. At least I would get a quote.

Uggh. That means we'd have to get accounting involved. :(

There are plenty of local machine shops; some affordable (others not!), and all take time and want plenty of engineering prints, etc.., even for simple stuff like this.

I'd really rather not shop it, (and of course, delivery would depend on their workload). It's not a rush job.. yet. But dealing w/ outside has always proven to be a bit of a hassle for the way we operate -- which I will grant unequivocally is pretty nutty most of the time.

Really? Machine shop for 75 cheaper vs. buying a press, die and punch?
Stuff must be more costly than I thought...? damn.
Click to expand...

If there's no hurry order from Hammond.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
fredag den 18. oktober 2019 kl. 04.14.03 UTC+2 skrev mpm:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 8:58:48 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

clamp a template to the front and use a router with a guide bushing?
a 1/8 inch carbide bit shouldn't have a much of problem with a bit of steel

Humm... I wonder. (?)
I thought the heat might be a problem with the powder-coat finish (inside door).
Might be worth trying. (We might even own a router?)
Click to expand...

you should be cutting the steel not melting it ;)

how big a slot do you need?
 
On Friday, 18 October 2019 01:44:08 UTC+1, mpm wrote:
We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084 standard cabinet.. with some effort, I believe the door can be removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish, so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter = about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever, punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option to do that this time around.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

however you do it it'll damage the powder coat finish, just some methods worse than others. Fix that or you get rust streaks.


NT
 
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:33ebc401-1b9f-403f-b957-1cb5ec39e91a@googlegroups.com:

fredag den 18. oktober 2019 kl. 04.14.03 UTC+2 skrev mpm:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 8:58:48 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt
Christensen wrote:

clamp a template to the front and use a router with a guide
bushing? a 1/8 inch carbide bit shouldn't have a much of
problem with a bit of steel

Humm... I wonder. (?)
I thought the heat might be a problem with the powder-coat finish
(inside door). Might be worth trying. (We might even own a
router?)

you should be cutting the steel not melting it ;)

how big a slot do you need?
Click to expand...

READ. He said "12 conductor ribbon cable".

Don't see many fashioned from welding cable, so I would say it is
likely one of the 22 or 24 or 26 Gauge versions. Slot for the #22 and
no worries.
If there is enough room behind the cover piece, one could us a
round hole and make the flat cable into a round one and pass that
thru. It makes a bigger 'knot like' exit though, so space is needed
in the ingress and egress areas.
 
mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote in
news:3e6a89c7-d3fa-4e1d-b69c-2199dc807bbf@googlegroups.com:

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:27:54 PM UTC-4, Martin Riddle
wrote:

Greenlee punch #229 , 9pin Dsub.

Good idea, and was actually mentioned today on the shop floor.
We actually have one, but it is broken (not on this job) and
nobody replaced it. I'm not real keen on a D-Sub hole shape, (as
opposed to a slot), but I guess it would work.
Click to expand...

Well then two siamesed round holes with a chamfer to knock the edge
off would work.

If it is a small enclosure you may not even be able to get the die
in there.
 
mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote in
news:61227a10-4ef3-4d83-9c43-5256ac477cc3@googlegroups.com:

We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a
metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a
12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

The enclosure is 16-gauge steel. (Mild steel, I think?, but the
data sheet just says steel). It's a Hammond Manufacturing EJ1084
standard cabinet. with some effort, I believe the door can be
removed? TBD.

Anybody got any ideas?
It's already powder-coated from the manufacturer, and I'd rather
not damage the finish if it can be helped. The keypad will cover
any cosmetic damage on the front, so the concern would be the
inside of the door. (And not against repairing the inside finish,
so long as it would look OK.)

I'm thinking of using a 10-ton hydraulic press with a rectangular
punch and die, and cut the whole thing at once. (Slot perimeter =
about 92mm).

I realize SED isn't a metal working forum, but you folks are into
all manner of ideas (some wackier than others). So, my advance
apologies for posting here, but I'm hoping to get some good advice
I can pass along to the folks who will have to do this. We're
looking at roughly 50-75 cabinets initially.

If follow-on orders flow in, we'll have Hammond, or whomever,
punch them before powder-coating. We just don't have the option
to do that this time around.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

A dremel tool with a cut-off wheel (the kind concrete saws use but
thinner) makes a perfect slot.

The right way to do it would be to drill two small holes, one at
each end of your slot width. Then plunge cut with the dremel between
those two holes. Then there are cutters which have the ability to
cut on their shaft sides if you need to widen the slot.
 
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 8:44:08 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
> We need to cut an acceptable-looking slot in the front door of a metal NEMA-4 enclosure, through which, we will route a 12-conductor ribbon cable (membrane keypad).

Most punch systems for flat items will be hard to apply to a formed door.
The autobody pull-punch tools are easy, though
<https://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-punch-driver-kit-96718.html>

provided you can start it with a pilot hole.

Round holes with a cemented-in grommet would be the easiest aperture to make, plugging it
and routing a cable through should be easy.
 
On 2019-10-18, mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 11:42:06 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Just mill a slot for the ribbon cable, in the front door, under the
keypad, and you're done. Running an unprotected ribbon cable through
a door frame is going to trash the ribbon cable as soon as someone
misaligns the cable with the slot, and slams the door.

Could you perhaps disclose the maker and model of the keypad so we can
get a better picture of what you're working with and possibly
recommend an alternative mounting or keypad? Extra credit for a URL
or photo of the keypad.

Keypad ordered (QTY-50) from jrpanel.com
This design has one membrane button (poppel type), and (9) embedded LED's.
About 150 x 200 mm, with a decent length tail. I was expecting a quick-turn prototype quality part, but I have to say, for the money and calendar, jrpanel's probably going to be hard to beat. The only thing that's weird about the whole JRP experience is they just want a full-size PDF image to make the part - not a Gerber, etc.. And they don't provide any tools to get that done. I designed this one in Photoshop Elements (believe it or not).

Anyway, the cabinet door opens to the left. One of our engineers had the idea to bring the ribbon tail UNDER the circuit board to connect, using a right angle 0.1" pitch header. Works perfectly, and keeps the ribbon out of the way of where hands need to be in the box to install it. Also, it prevents the ribbon from getting caught up in the door latch and gaskets. (Wish I could take credit for the approach.) :)

Oh, and yes, the ribbon exits from the approximate center of the keypad, not the edge. Using 3M 300LSE adhesive, I'm hoping the box retains NEMA-4 rating (if/when) we test for that. But I'm not really worried that much about it, "should work". Ha! (Sounds like one of those "famous last words"...)

BTW: I may have learned of JRPanel here on SED, and if so, a belated thanks to whoever posted it. It was basically one-week in our hands, from design to finished goods. And the quality, "look-&-feel", and the Pantone color match was actually pretty good - not that it mattered in this case. Bottom line: the result is certainly sellable. The only weird part is the PDF design requirement.

And before you ask: I do think next time we might consider NOT embedding the LED's. They look fine and work great, but it did raise the cost per keypad a bit. Didn't really matter for this job since we already had the correct color, factory-stock cabinets in inventory - whatever savings there was would have been eaten up in labor drilling all those discrete holes for an LED daughter board mounted to the inside of the door. And we save 6-weeks on production not waiting for pre-punched, color cabinets.
Click to expand...

middle of the pad: so find a drill press and hole-saw a 18mm, or
larger hole and pass the ribbon through that. it seems that hole
shape is not important so long as it's wide enough for the ribbon.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
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