Crops under solar panels can be a win-win

[Rick C]

This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 9/6/19 1:27 AM, Rick C wrote:

This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

Like you could probably grow a shit load of weed under there, and have
solar-powered lights under the panels to grow the weed.

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 06/09/19 06:27, Rick C wrote:

This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

From one of the comments, there are a lot more photos at
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/nrel/44570328402/in/album-72157673312397578/>.

Those seem to show that the spacing between the rows is a lot more than
usual for solar farms. However, as a concept it's an interesting idea.

--

Jeff

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:27:17 PM UTC+10, Rick C wrote:

This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

On the Australian news last night they had some farmers grazing sheep under solar panels. Apparently the shade from the solar panels leaves more water in the ground so the grazing is better there, even though the the grass doesn't get as much sun. Another win-win.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:qkt0es$n8t$1@dont-email.me:

Those seem to show that the spacing between the rows is a lot more
than usual for solar farms. However, as a concept it's an
interesting idea.

So. Less watts per acre than a FOOLy populated solar farm space.
Big deal. It is still a GREAT idea.

I'd take a FARMly populated solar/agri farm any day over a FOOLy
populated waste of The Earth's surface soil in the name of grabbing a
few more watts worth of photons.

I go tri-fold.

Grow weed under the 'canopy'. It oxygenates almost better than any
other plant. It produces seed that contain serious amounts of anti-
oxidants and is second only to soy in protein content. We could feed
hungry masses with it... birds too. It smells great! and you can
sell the buds as the benign enebriant and homeopathic medicine that
it is.

 

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 01:47:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 9/6/19 1:27 AM, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.


Like you could probably grow a shit load of weed under there, and have
solar-powered lights under the panels to grow the weed.

Solar cells with LEDs on the bottom? Why didn't I patent that?

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 11:54:29 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 01:47:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 9/6/19 1:27 AM, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.


Like you could probably grow a shit load of weed under there, and have
solar-powered lights under the panels to grow the weed.


Solar cells with LEDs on the bottom? Why didn't I patent that?

It happens to be a silly idea, and you don't patent stuff anyway.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 9/6/19 1:27 AM, Rick C wrote:

This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

Till somebody runs a harvester down the rows and clips a few of the
panels.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

The solar cells can power water sprayers.

 

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 11:07:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 9/6/19 1:27 AM, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.


Till somebody runs a harvester down the rows and clips a few of the
panels.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

We harvest our organic kale crop with short volunteer greenies with
gunny sacks on their backs.

 

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

 

[bitrex]

On 9/6/19 9:54 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 01:47:04 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 9/6/19 1:27 AM, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.


Like you could probably grow a shit load of weed under there, and have
solar-powered lights under the panels to grow the weed.


Solar cells with LEDs on the bottom? Why didn't I patent that?

What spectrum of light does the weeds grow best under?

It's not a solar powered flashlight it's a "electromagnetic radiative
energy spectrum conversion system" you see.

 

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:13:48 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

The solar cells can power water sprayers.

The water is a more valuable commodity than the electricity it takes to run irrigation pumps, and they really want to be using drip irrigation in places like this, and drip is low power.It probably drove the idea of using the panels for shading in the first place, although a lot stuff doesn't do well in shade. Notice they didn't mention any of the economics, but the crummy vegetable crop isn't going to make up for the loss of revenue due to greatly reduced panel density.
Modern agriculture is heading for catastrophic collapse in so many ways. They have HUGE problems. Here is a story about their plastics problem:
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-can-agriculture-solve-its-1-billion-plastic-problem
These plastic products are absolutely essential, but it's getting unsustainable.

 

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:38:00 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:27:17 PM UTC+10, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

On the Australian news last night they had some farmers grazing sheep under solar panels. Apparently the shade from the solar panels leaves more water in the ground so the grazing is better there, even though the the grass doesn't get as much sun. Another win-win.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

WOW- that's some unbelievably powerful out-of-the-box thinking there! Good that this is finally working its way to Australia anyway...

"An additional solar and agriculture co-location technique is to keep a herd of sheep or other livestock within the enclosure of a ground-mounted PV system to help control vegetation height. Doing so can significantly reduce operation costs for solar developers. A spokesperson for Duke Energy, one of the largest electric utility companies in the United States, noted that apart from the lease of the land, vegetation management (i.e., lawnmowing) is the primary operating expense at their solar facilities. A mutually beneficial partnership can be established between sheep farmers and solar developers, where the developers provide grazing land at the site of their solar development and the sheep provide low-cost vegetation control. Multiple sheep farming companies have been founded on this principle and can help provide a key source of revenue for 21st-century farmers. Other types of animals have been tested for solar vegetation management, but sheep have often proven to be the best tenants of the land. Horses can be picky about what they eat, cows are large and require a lot of space, and goats tend to chew on wires and climb on panels."
https://www.nrel.gov/state-local-tribal/blog/posts/solar-sheep-and-voltaic-veggies-uniting-solar-power-and-agriculture.html

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:37:10 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:13:48 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

The solar cells can power water sprayers.

The water is a more valuable commodity than the electricity it takes to run irrigation pumps, and they really want to be using drip irrigation in places like this, and drip is low power.It probably drove the idea of using the panels for shading in the first place, although a lot stuff doesn't do well in shade. Notice they didn't mention any of the economics, but the crummy vegetable crop isn't going to make up for the loss of revenue due to greatly reduced panel density.

Loss of revenue??? You seem to want to optimize something that is not so important. I suppose some will say this is a solar farm with reduced density. Others will see it as a crop farm that also produces electricity.

The point is there is a synergy and it can do both. The only issue is whether this works out to be better than either one alone. You have contributed nothing to that part of the conversation, just waving your arms in the air yelling, "reduced panel density!"

Modern agriculture is heading for catastrophic collapse in so many ways. They have HUGE problems. Here is a story about their plastics problem:
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-can-agriculture-solve-its-1-billion-plastic-problem
These plastic products are absolutely essential, but it's getting unsustainable.

With all the plastics use in the world and all the problems it creates, you seem to be overly focused on this one part of the problem. Why is this any worse than any other plastic disposal problem? Why is this harder to solve? Seems to me like they have a handle on it mostly because it is big business and at least the collection issue is greatly reduced.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 09:37:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:13:48 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

The solar cells can power water sprayers.

The water is a more valuable commodity than the electricity it takes to run irrigation pumps, and they really want to be using drip irrigation in places like this, and drip is low power.It probably drove the idea of using the panels for shading in the first place, although a lot stuff doesn't do well in shade. Notice they didn't mention any of the economics, but the crummy vegetable crop isn't going to make up for the loss of revenue due to greatly reduced panel density.
Modern agriculture is heading for catastrophic collapse in so many ways. They have HUGE problems. Here is a story about their plastics problem:
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-can-agriculture-solve-its-1-billion-plastic-problem
These plastic products are absolutely essential, but it's getting unsustainable.

There's gloom and destruction everywhere you look. Enjoy.

Some fathead Dem candidate said that driving cars will "destroy the
planet" as he boarded his private plane.

Global Warming has become Climate Change has become Climate Crisis.
What's next?

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 11:57:49 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

Yes, a master of the obvious. Thanks for the insight.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:35:05 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:37:10 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:13:48 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

The solar cells can power water sprayers.

The water is a more valuable commodity than the electricity it takes to run irrigation pumps, and they really want to be using drip irrigation in places like this, and drip is low power.It probably drove the idea of using the panels for shading in the first place, although a lot stuff doesn't do well in shade. Notice they didn't mention any of the economics, but the crummy vegetable crop isn't going to make up for the loss of revenue due to greatly reduced panel density.

Loss of revenue??? You seem to want to optimize something that is not so important. I suppose some will say this is a solar farm with reduced density. Others will see it as a crop farm that also produces electricity.

LOL- there is such a thing as putting numbers to it. That experimental thing looks like 25% land use for the solar max. That is a major reduction in output. And what the heck makes you think vegetable farms use inordinate amounts of energy? They don't.

The point is there is a synergy and it can do both. The only issue is whether this works out to be better than either one alone. You have contributed nothing to that part of the conversation, just waving your arms in the air yelling, "reduced panel density!"

There is no synergy whatsoever with this dumb scheme. And there isn't a problem with solar consuming prime agricultural land. Much of it is being located in areas where agriculture is impractical if not impossible. The market is a corrective influence in that the cost of prime land is sky high compared to the unusable land, so the solar installations go onto agriculturally unusable land. BUT on the political side, many localities are banning solar in areas zoned for agriculture, even though agriculture may be failing there or the land is fallow. The bans are mainly due to sentimentality and not science or economics based. So this solar/agriculture "synergy" nonsense is a way to attempt to circumvent the bans.

Modern agriculture is heading for catastrophic collapse in so many ways.. They have HUGE problems. Here is a story about their plastics problem:
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-can-agriculture-solve-its-1-billion-plastic-problem
These plastic products are absolutely essential, but it's getting unsustainable.

With all the plastics use in the world and all the problems it creates, you seem to be overly focused on this one part of the problem. Why is this any worse than any other plastic disposal problem? Why is this harder to solve? Seems to me like they have a handle on it mostly because it is big business and at least the collection issue is greatly reduced.

If the problem is huge, then it's huge. Attempting to diminish it by comparison with even worse problems is not constructive. The agricultural turnover is seasonal, it is non-stop, and there are no alternatives on the horizon..

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <p6p4ne1couuvlg2ccf2v7sk1fk09p37gk4@4ax.com>,
<jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

>Solar cells with LEDs on the bottom? Why didn't I patent that?

Too late now.

Back around 1990 I got a job at a startup which was working on what
eventually became the 3DO Multiplayer CD-ROM-based videogame system.
The startup was still in stealth mode. What the founders were saying
to anyone who asked, was "Battery-less technology. On even-numbered
days we're developing a wind-powered fan. On odd-numbered days we're
developing a solar-powered flashlight."

 

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 4:47:17 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 2:31:48 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:35:05 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:37:10 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:13:48 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:27:17 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
This is interesting

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/crops-under-solar-panels-can-be-a-win-win/

They report that not only do crops grow better using less water for the amount of food produced the solar panels stay cooler improving their electrical production. True win-win.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Study was conducted in arid area of southwest where literally anything is an improvement. It is not a general recommendation.

The solar cells can power water sprayers.

The water is a more valuable commodity than the electricity it takes to run irrigation pumps, and they really want to be using drip irrigation in places like this, and drip is low power.It probably drove the idea of using the panels for shading in the first place, although a lot stuff doesn't do well in shade. Notice they didn't mention any of the economics, but the crummy vegetable crop isn't going to make up for the loss of revenue due to greatly reduced panel density.

Loss of revenue??? You seem to want to optimize something that is not so important. I suppose some will say this is a solar farm with reduced density. Others will see it as a crop farm that also produces electricity.

LOL- there is such a thing as putting numbers to it. That experimental thing looks like 25% land use for the solar max. That is a major reduction in output. And what the heck makes you think vegetable farms use inordinate amounts of energy? They don't.

You still aren't getting it. Farms don't typically source electricity, although there are a few around here that have put solar collectors on barns and such.

You seem to want to compare to a single purpose solar installation rather than look at the whole picture. Consider it a farm that produces electricity. Now the ground coverage by the solar cells is not so important is it?

The important numbers were mentioned in the report although they didn't look at crop yield per land area which may or may not be different from other farms.

You are missing the point which is that the solar collectors improve the growing of the crops and the crops improve the operation of the solar collectors. This is not a commercial crop/solar farm. Like many here if it isn't packaged and sealed and ready for delivery you seem to think it can't possibly be practical. So I suppose nuclear energy is not practical either since we have no idea how to maintain waste products for 10,000 years.


The point is there is a synergy and it can do both. The only issue is whether this works out to be better than either one alone. You have contributed nothing to that part of the conversation, just waving your arms in the air yelling, "reduced panel density!"

There is no synergy whatsoever with this dumb scheme. And there isn't a problem with solar consuming prime agricultural land. Much of it is being located in areas where agriculture is impractical if not impossible. The market is a corrective influence in that the cost of prime land is sky high compared to the unusable land, so the solar installations go onto agriculturally unusable land. BUT on the political side, many localities are banning solar in areas zoned for agriculture, even though agriculture may be failing there or the land is fallow. The bans are mainly due to sentimentality and not science or economics based. So this solar/agriculture "synergy" nonsense is a way to attempt to circumvent the bans.

Oh, there's the problem. You didn't actually read the report or you wouldn't say "there is no synergy". Go back and read and then we'll talk.

As to your point of using only "agriculturally unusable land", that's pure BS. A 500 MW installation, one of the largest in the US is being built 10 miles from here on land that is in use for lumber harvesting. There is no shortage of land here, other than for homes which is the main complaint with the facility, it's right next to a neighborhood.

You're talking about this:
https://spotsylvania-solar.spower.com/

And that would be largest east of the Rocky Mountains, not U.S.

It's an approximately 6000 acre tract that was clear cut by the timber company for the last time and put up for sale. They were finished with it. Timber land is forestry and not agriculture. Here's a rundown on the kind of land it is from the Virginia Dept of Forestry, who know a thing or two about the subject:

History of Forestry Spotsylvania County etc

"Poor farming practices used during the peak of agriculture production also took its toll on the soils in Spotsylvania, and further deprived this region of much of its precious topsoil. Once bountiful regions had now been reduced to marginal productivity, at best. Although marginal for agriculture, the soils were good for pine plantations, predominately Loblolly pine (Pinus taeda). After the turn of the 20th century, and most of the 1900s, forestry and forest products were an important part of the economy of Spotsylvania County. Numerous portable sawmills, permanent sawmills and timber harvesters operated in the area, providing a livelihood for many families. This trend continued into the 1960s and 1970s, until the nature of the county begin to change."
http://www.dof.virginia.gov/locations/spotsylvania.htm


In other words, the yahoos trashed the land beyond use, except for growing genetically modified pine.

The so-called neighborhood is a factition, Fawn Lake. They're getting a 300 foot buffer, they won't be able to see, hear or smell the solar. The solar will be quieter, and safer, than using the place as a hunting preserve, and the roadways are a lot safer without a gazillion logging trucks barreling through. The people there are too ignorant to know the difference between a forest and timber farm. Then a straight forward calculation yields the 850,000 metric done annual sequestration of CO2 due to the solar energy production is equivalent to that of 60,000 acres of mature oak stand. The timber land there was not mature oak, it was pulp pine that comes in really low on the carbon sequestration scale, less than one ton per acre annual sequestration, and sPower is consuming only 3500 acres.

The rest of your blather isn't worth addressing because you don't know what you're talking about.

The issue also isn't that land is scarce. The report shows how solar and crops can improve each other. Oh, but you didn't read the report, I forgot.


Modern agriculture is heading for catastrophic collapse in so many ways. They have HUGE problems. Here is a story about their plastics problem:
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-can-agriculture-solve-its-1-billion-plastic-problem
These plastic products are absolutely essential, but it's getting unsustainable.

With all the plastics use in the world and all the problems it creates, you seem to be overly focused on this one part of the problem. Why is this any worse than any other plastic disposal problem? Why is this harder to solve? Seems to me like they have a handle on it mostly because it is big business and at least the collection issue is greatly reduced.

If the problem is huge, then it's huge. Attempting to diminish it by comparison with even worse problems is not constructive. The agricultural turnover is seasonal, it is non-stop, and there are no alternatives on the horizon.

I'm just looking at where to spend the problem solving capital. I don't think farm based plastics are the important issue at the moment. We can't address every problem at once... and "huge" is a relative term so, no, it's not such a big problem relatively speaking. I'm not sure how it is even relevant to the issue at hand. Maybe you'd like to open an new thread to discuss that?

You're really shy on details and facts, and thankfully you don't make policy in this country, so your opinion doesn't matter.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209