Converting 1960s Fender amp for 240V UK use

[Phil Allison]

"petrus bitbyter"

IMHO the only way to solve all the problems that has been risen, is
finding a good, fully insulated 50Hz to 60 Hz converter. That way you can
ground the enclosure of the converter as well as one side of the 60Hz
output. An American outlet that matches the Fender plug can be build in
the converter so you do not need to modify that Fender at all. No need to
say that the converter has to provide a clean 60Hz sine wave as well as
enough power to satisfy the Fender all of the time.

** Massively silly idea.

50Hz to 60Hz sine wave converters capable of 300VA at 120 Volts AC are not "
off the shelf " items.

One would have to be custom built and there is simply no need.

Just use a normal 240/120 step down transformer and ground one side of the
secondary - perfectly safe and legal.

If there is any concern about how warm the tranny in the Fender Twin is
getting, just place a small fan behind the amp.

My god you fuckwits here know how to complicate simple matters.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"spamtrap1888"
"Phil Allison"

"Wild Bullshit Artist"

** WB is a raving, paranoid schizophrenic.

If he were not such a fucking asshole, one might feel a bit sorry for him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A proper step-down isolating transformer (not auto transformer buck
types)
would allow 120VAC operation, just the way it was made.
Amp and guitar isolated.

** But that is NOT how such amps work in the USA.

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heaven/www.schematicheaven.com/fen...

Note the switch and the 0.047uF cap in the AC line to the amp - this is
the " polarity switch" and it connects the chassis to one or other side of
the AC supply via the cap. Users are meant to select the less noisy
position, which equates to the neutral conductor.

To duplicate this set up , the isolation stepdown tranny must have one
side
of its secondary linked to the supply ground.

The only thing left " un-American " then is the frequency of 50Hz - which
WILL cause the power tranny to get rather hot.

At that point I would look into getting a 240V 50/60Hz power
transformer with the proper voltage taps on the secondary.
http://shop.amppartsdirect.com/Power_c4.htm


** Well, nothing on that page is any use.

The idea of changing any of the parts in this vintage pile of junk has been
excluded by the lunatic owner - I kid you not, some fuckwit collectors
expect techs to repair such amps while replacing nothing.

In any case, a 240 volt 50Hz rated replacement is physically larger ( goes
on export versions ) and will not fit the cut out in the chassis for the amp
in question.



.... Phil

 

[spamtrap1888]

On Jun 30, 8:21 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Wild Bullshit Artist"

** WB is a raving, paranoid schizophrenic.

If he were not such a fucking asshole, one might feel a bit sorry for him..

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A proper step-down isolating transformer (not auto transformer buck types)
would allow 120VAC operation, just the way it was made.
Amp and guitar isolated.

** But that is NOT  how such amps work in the USA.

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heaven/www.schematicheaven.com/fen...

Note the switch and the 0.047uF cap in the AC line to the amp  -  this is
the  " polarity switch" and it connects the chassis to one or other side of
the AC supply via the cap.  Users are meant to select the less noisy
position, which equates to the neutral conductor.

To duplicate this set up , the isolation stepdown tranny must have one side
of its secondary linked to the supply ground.

The only thing left " un-American " then is the frequency of 50Hz -  which
WILL cause the power tranny to get rather hot.

At that point I would look into getting a 240V 50/60Hz power
transformer with the proper voltage taps on the secondary.
http://shop.amppartsdirect.com/Power_c4.htm

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> schreef in bericht
news:97aa96FdgiU1@mid.individual.net...

"petrus bitbyter"

IMHO the only way to solve all the problems that has been risen, is
finding a good, fully insulated 50Hz to 60 Hz converter. That way you can
ground the enclosure of the converter as well as one side of the 60Hz
output. An American outlet that matches the Fender plug can be build in
the converter so you do not need to modify that Fender at all. No need to
say that the converter has to provide a clean 60Hz sine wave as well as
enough power to satisfy the Fender all of the time.


** Massively silly idea.

50Hz to 60Hz sine wave converters capable of 300VA at 120 Volts AC are not
" off the shelf " items.

One would have to be custom built and there is simply no need.

Just use a normal 240/120 step down transformer and ground one side of the
secondary - perfectly safe and legal.

If there is any concern about how warm the tranny in the Fender Twin is
getting, just place a small fan behind the amp.

My god you fuckwits here know how to complicate simple matters.



.... Phil

You may be right, you may be wrong but I got 60Hz trannies fried on 50Hz
mains. I'd take no risk with a - at least in the owners eye - precious
Fender.

petrus bitbyter

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:54:05 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

However, quite often things sold in the US were not spec'ed properly, they
were designed to work at 60Hz, without a big change in frequency or current
draw.

I had a wonderful Phase Linear 400 watt per channel amp I had to sell when I
left the US because their transformers were well known not to be able to
stand 50Hz. :-(

It's fairly easy to build a 50Hz to 60Hz switching inverter. Start
with a 230V 50Hz power supply that produces 330VDC. Then run the
330VDC through a 60Hz chopper to get a 330VDC peak-to-peak square
wave. If your xformer is fails to appreciate square waves and
converts the harmonic energy into heat, then something more
sophisticated, like a step approximated sine wave switcher can replace
the chopper.

Well, maybe this is overkill (and inefficient):
<http://www.hzfrequencyconverter.com>

Also, I just downloaded the Phase Linear 400 schematic:
<http://www.schematicsunlimited.com/download.php?manu=phase-linear&file=phase-linear-400-power-amplifier-schematic.pdf>
and found that the xformer is just a full wave center tapped single
winding (other than the winding running the pilot lights). You could
possibly have found a 50Hz replacement for something that simple or
deviced another +75v/-75v power source. Oh well, too late.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

petrus bitbyter wrote:

You may be right, you may be wrong but I got 60Hz trannies fried on 50Hz
mains. I'd take no risk with a - at least in the owners eye - precious
Fender.

It's not SUPPOSED to happen, but it does. A properly spec'ed 60Hz transformer
will happily work on 50Hz, right at the edge of where it was supposed to
be run. (20% overload)

However, quite often things sold in the US were not spec'ed properly, they
were designed to work at 60Hz, without a big change in frequency or current
draw.

I had a wonderful Phase Linear 400 watt per channel amp I had to sell when I
left the US because their transformers were well known not to be able to
stand 50Hz. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Making your enemy reliant on software you support is the best revenge.

 

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 7/2/2011 11:42 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

My god you fuckwits here know how to complicate simple matters.

Yeah but that's half the fun.

I'm thinking of a nice motor-generator set with a
common armature. ;-)

And a nice roll around cabinet. Tolex covering of
course with shiny brass fittings.

Jeff


--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

 

[Phil Allison]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

I had a wonderful Phase Linear 400 watt per channel amp I had to sell when
I
left the US because their transformers were well known not to be able to
stand 50Hz.

** That is utter bullshit !!

I have personally seen 120 VAC Phase Linear 400s, here in Sydney running on
a step down tranny and doing fine.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"petrus bitbyter"

"Phil Allison"

IMHO the only way to solve all the problems that has been risen, is
finding a good, fully insulated 50Hz to 60 Hz converter. That way you
can ground the enclosure of the converter as well as one side of the
60Hz output. An American outlet that matches the Fender plug can be
build in the converter so you do not need to modify that Fender at all.
No need to say that the converter has to provide a clean 60Hz sine wave
as well as enough power to satisfy the Fender all of the time.


** Massively silly idea.

50Hz to 60Hz sine wave converters capable of 300VA at 120 Volts AC are
not " off the shelf " items.

One would have to be custom built and there is simply no need.

Just use a normal 240/120 step down transformer and ground one side of
the secondary - perfectly safe and legal.

If there is any concern about how warm the tranny in the Fender Twin is
getting, just place a small fan behind the amp.

My god you fuckwits here know how to complicate simple matters.


You may be right,

** Of course I am - thouasands of examples prove it.

but I got 60Hz trannies fried on 50Hz mains.

** Yawnnnnnnn....


..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jeff Liebermann"

It's fairly easy to build a 50Hz to 60Hz switching inverter.

** Bollocks.

Start
with a 230V 50Hz power supply that produces 330VDC. Then run the
330VDC through a 60Hz chopper to get a 330VDC peak-to-peak square
wave.

** What that produces is a 165 volts of DC.

Dickhead.

Well, maybe this is overkill (and inefficient):
http://www.hzfrequencyconverter.com

** ROTFL !!

Also, I just downloaded the Phase Linear 400 schematic:
http://www.schematicsunlimited.com/download.php?manu=phase-linear&file=phase-linear-400-power-amplifier-schematic.pdf
and found that the xformer is just a full wave center tapped single
winding (other than the winding running the pilot lights). You could
possibly have found a 50Hz replacement for something that simple or
deviced another +75v/-75v power source.

** The amp works just fine on a standard step down tranny.

Just like 99% of all amps made for 60 Hz power.



...... Phil

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:17:12 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

It's fairly easy to build a 50Hz to 60Hz switching inverter.

** Bollocks.

Correction. It's fairly easy for *me* to build a 50 to 60Hz switching
inverter.

Start
with a 230V 50Hz power supply that produces 330VDC. Then run the
330VDC through a 60Hz chopper to get a 330VDC peak-to-peak square
wave.

** What that produces is a 165 volts of DC.

Oops. I forgot it was for UK power. US power is 117Vrms
Pk-to-peak is 2 * 1.414 * 117Vrms = 330 V Pk-to-pk
Double that for UK power.

Dickhead.

Judging by your typical acerbic remarks, I'll consider that a relative
compliment.

Well, maybe this is overkill (and inefficient):
http://www.hzfrequencyconverter.com

** ROTFL !!

Well, it is a bit large, noisy, inefficient, expensive, messy, and
overkill. But, it will do the job.

One could probably just slow down a 60Hz gasoline portable generator
to run at 50Hz, but that would be too easy. I don't think the
generator noise will be heard over the music belched by the typical
Fender guitar amp.

Also, I just downloaded the Phase Linear 400 schematic:
http://www.schematicsunlimited.com/download.php?manu=phase-linear&file=phase-linear-400-power-amplifier-schematic.pdf
and found that the xformer is just a full wave center tapped single
winding (other than the winding running the pilot lights). You could
possibly have found a 50Hz replacement for something that simple or
deviced another +75v/-75v power source.

** The amp works just fine on a standard step down tranny.
Just like 99% of all amps made for 60 Hz power.

The xformers that burn up are the one's that are operating close to
saturation at 60Hz. That's usually near maximum rated xformer load.
Run those on 50Hz, the core saturates and gets hot. The same xformer,
run with a much smaller load, works just fine.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:11o217hv1uunjji0irvsvkg2odmptn367e@4ax.com...

On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:17:12 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au
wrote:

It's fairly easy to build a 50Hz to 60Hz switching inverter.

** Bollocks.

Correction. It's fairly easy for *me* to build a 50 to 60Hz switching
inverter.

** Grandiose bullshit.

Start
with a 230V 50Hz power supply that produces 330VDC. Then run the
330VDC through a 60Hz chopper to get a 330VDC peak-to-peak square
wave.

** What that produces is a 165 volts of DC.

Oops. I forgot it was for UK power.

** You forgot about the DC component - among other crucial errors.

Dickhead.

Judging by your typical acerbic remarks, I'll consider that a relative
compliment.

** No it ain't - fuckhead.

Well, maybe this is overkill (and inefficient):
http://www.hzfrequencyconverter.com

** ROTFL !!

Well, it is a bit large, noisy, inefficient, expensive, messy, and
overkill. But, it will do the job.

** Totally INSANE.

Like you.

One could probably just slow down a 60Hz gasoline portable generator
to run at 50Hz, but that would be too easy.

** Other way around - dickwad.

Also, I just downloaded the Phase Linear 400 schematic:

** The amp works just fine on a standard step down tranny.
Just like 99% of all amps made for 60 Hz power.


The xformers that burn up are the one's that are operating close to
saturation at 60Hz.

** FFS - I know the actual amplifiers.

YOU do not.

Piss OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF



..... Phil

 

[N_Cook]

A couple of clinchnuts instead of the one closure fixing, for a now
2-section Black & Decker lawnmower connector and looks almost professional.
Earthing pin set into the side , black epoxied and shrouded over, not quite
so pro looking.