Convert a 45 RPM record to Metric

[rickman]

Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 4:28 PM:

On 1/09/2017 4:59 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:00:46 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

If we were using a metric system at that time, would they still be
called 45 rpm, or would there be some metric numbers used instead?

The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units.

**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball?

BTW: The "metric part of the world" is 95% of the world. A pitifully
insignificant 5% holds out against the inevitable.

You talkin' 'bout US?

I
think we are stuck with it. Switching to a new system would be
essentially insurmountable.

**RPM?


In the SI unit system, however, the unit for angular velocity is
radians per second. 45 RPM is a touch over 4.7 radians per second.


**Rotating media is so last century. The number of users is utterly
insignificant. I am, however, one of them.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 1/09/2017 11:29 AM, rickman wrote:

Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 4:28 PM:
On 1/09/2017 4:59 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:00:46 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

If we were using a metric system at that time, would they still be
called 45 rpm, or would there be some metric numbers used instead?

The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units.

**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball?

BTW: The "metric part of the world" is 95% of the world. A pitifully
insignificant 5% holds out against the inevitable.

You talkin' 'bout US?

**Yup. Just a few weeks back, I had to work on a US built product.
Damned thing had two different types of Allen bolts in it (Whitworth and
SAE). None of my usual Imperial Allen keys would fit it. I had to grind
an old key down to fit. I NEVER have such issues with products using
Metric Allen bolts. And, let's not get started with those insane
fractional sizes, for screws, drills and all the other stuff. Metris
stuff is so much easier. 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm and so on. It just
makes sense.

I guess you can thank your brain-damaged Prez (at the time - Reagan) for
that stupidity. Come to think of it, you have another brain-damaged Prez
running the show again. What gives with you guys? You seem to vote for
people with the intellect of a 10 year old every now and again.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[rickman]

Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 11:07 PM:

On 1/09/2017 11:29 AM, rickman wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 4:28 PM:
On 1/09/2017 4:59 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:00:46 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

If we were using a metric system at that time, would they still be
called 45 rpm, or would there be some metric numbers used instead?

The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units.

**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball?

BTW: The "metric part of the world" is 95% of the world. A pitifully
insignificant 5% holds out against the inevitable.

You talkin' 'bout US?


**Yup. Just a few weeks back, I had to work on a US built product. Damned
thing had two different types of Allen bolts in it (Whitworth and SAE). None
of my usual Imperial Allen keys would fit it. I had to grind an old key down
to fit. I NEVER have such issues with products using Metric Allen bolts.
And, let's not get started with those insane fractional sizes, for screws,
drills and all the other stuff. Metris stuff is so much easier. 1mm, 1.5mm,
2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm and so on. It just makes sense.

What are you talking about Whitworth??? Nobody uses Whitworth in the US.
That's a British thing.

Actually it's a bit funny that you are bringing up the fractions. The sizes
you mention are only convenient because of chance. Metric sizes are often
very inconvenient. Feet and inches are very handy for most things we deal
with because they were invented with convenience in mind. Metric is great
when you are working with the numbers, but often the actual sizes are much
less than convenient. Six foot skis are very convenient, but 180 cm are not
so much. Another example, PCB traces are still measured in thousandths of
an inch even when working with metric sized boards because the numbers are
much more convenient, i.e. 6/6 vs. 0.1524 mm.

Yeah, I'm for converting, but it's not about convenience of units, it's
about being able to do calculations more easily.

Hell, the metric stuff has mucked up measuring devices even when they aren't
metric. I've never seen a tape measure with binary based fractions written
in decimal numbers until now. That is the most useless thing yet!

I guess you can thank your brain-damaged Prez (at the time - Reagan) for
that stupidity. Come to think of it, you have another brain-damaged Prez
running the show again. What gives with you guys? You seem to vote for
people with the intellect of a 10 year old every now and again.

Seems to me electing bad leaders is not unique to the US. Which country are
you from? Never had any bad leaders, huh?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 1/09/2017 5:50 PM, rickman wrote:

Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 11:07 PM:
On 1/09/2017 11:29 AM, rickman wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 4:28 PM:
On 1/09/2017 4:59 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:00:46 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

If we were using a metric system at that time, would they still be
called 45 rpm, or would there be some metric numbers used instead?

The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units.

**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball?

BTW: The "metric part of the world" is 95% of the world. A pitifully
insignificant 5% holds out against the inevitable.

You talkin' 'bout US?


**Yup. Just a few weeks back, I had to work on a US built product. Damned
thing had two different types of Allen bolts in it (Whitworth and
SAE). None
of my usual Imperial Allen keys would fit it. I had to grind an old
key down
to fit. I NEVER have such issues with products using Metric Allen bolts.
And, let's not get started with those insane fractional sizes, for
screws,
drills and all the other stuff. Metris stuff is so much easier. 1mm,
1.5mm,
2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm and so on. It just makes sense.

What are you talking about Whitworth???  Nobody uses Whitworth in the
US. That's a British thing.

**Truthfully, I have no idea what the other Allen bolts were. My SAE
Allen keys fitted one set, but none of the SAE ones I had (or the ones
my neighbour had) fitted. Maybe it wasn't Whitworth, but it sure wasn't
Metric or SAE.

Actually it's a bit funny that you are bringing up the fractions.  The
sizes you mention are only convenient because of chance.  Metric sizes
are often very inconvenient.

**Nope. Never. However, I'll bite: When do you think they're inconvenient?

  Feet and inches are very handy for most

things we deal with because they were invented with convenience in
mind.

**12 inches = 1 foot. 3 feet = 1 yard. 1,760 feet = 1 mile. In what
universe is this convenient? Western numbering is base 10. Not base 12.
It's fucking insane.

  Metric is great when you are working with the numbers, but often

the actual sizes are much less than convenient.  Six foot skis are very
convenient, but 180 cm are not so much.

**Since my skis are 2 Metres, I find them quite convenient. Yeah, I
know, I really should buy some of those modern skis.


  Another example, PCB traces are

still measured in thousandths of an inch even when working with metric
sized boards because the numbers are much more convenient, i.e. 6/6 vs.
0.1524 mm.

**On that we agree. The electronics industry is likely stuck with such
arcane measurements for a very long time.

Yeah, I'm for converting, but it's not about convenience of units, it's
about being able to do calculations more easily.

**Yep. Base 10. Not base 12, or whatever silly measurements the Imperial
system deems appropriate. 16 ounces = 1 pound. Sheesh! How many pints in
a gallon? How many in a US gallon? It goes on and on, with sillier units.

Hell, the metric stuff has mucked up measuring devices even when they
aren't metric.  I've never seen a tape measure with binary based
fractions written in decimal numbers until now.  That is the most
useless thing yet!

**Huh? Most of my tape measures are printed in Metric and Imperial. The
Metric side is easier to use and read. FWIW: I grew up with Imperial.
Switching to Metric was painless and delightful.

I guess you can thank your brain-damaged Prez (at the time - Reagan) for
that stupidity. Come to think of it, you have another brain-damaged Prez
running the show again. What gives with you guys? You seem to vote for
people with the intellect of a 10 year old every now and again.

Seems to me electing bad leaders is not unique to the US.  Which country
are you from?  Never had any bad leaders, huh?

**Australia and, yes. We've had a few, but none quite as appalling as
Trump.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Boris Mohar]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:00:46 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

The old 45 RPM (revolutions per minute) vinyl records were called 45's
by everyone who had them.

If we were using a metric system at that time, would they still be
called 45 rpm, or would there be some metric numbers used instead?

I was having this discussion with a few people and no one knew the
answer.....
(Personally, I think they would still be 45 rpm, but I could be wrong).

282.743339999999 radians per minute.



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Andy Burns]

oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

If we were using a metric system at that time, would they still be
called 45 rpm, or would there be some metric numbers used instead?

0.75 Hz

 

[rickman]

Trevor Wilson wrote on 9/1/2017 6:26 AM:

On 1/09/2017 5:50 PM, rickman wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote on 8/31/2017 11:07 PM:

I guess you can thank your brain-damaged Prez (at the time - Reagan) for
that stupidity. Come to think of it, you have another brain-damaged Prez
running the show again. What gives with you guys? You seem to vote for
people with the intellect of a 10 year old every now and again.

Seems to me electing bad leaders is not unique to the US. Which country
are you from? Never had any bad leaders, huh?

**Australia and, yes. We've had a few, but none quite as appalling as Trump.

I know little about your leaders, but you have some great entertainment.
Jim Jefferies is a hoot, but I like his specials better than his show. I
watch several TV shows from down under, Ms Fletcher, Rake, Dr. Blake, and
I'm just startng Bess...

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.


In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.

H.L. Mencken

We are all born ignorant. However, one has to work hard to remain stupid.

Ben Franklin

No, you are NOT entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion.

Harlan Ellison.

None of the above are mine.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Robert Roland]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 06:28:09 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units.

**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball?

Yes, the second is totally weird. Its original definition is one
86,400th of a day. Who in their right mind would divide something into
86,400 parts?

There are two basic units of time; the day and the year. Those are
astronomically defined. We pick one of those as the base unit. This
can be split into thousandths or millionths or whatever is practical
for the application. What we today know as a second is simply 11.6
microdays, or 31.7 nanoyears. I sleep about 300 millidays each night.

As you suggest, the second is so ingrained in everything that there is
no realistic way to get rid of it. But at least, let's abolish the
minute and the hour. Introduce a new unit that is 100 seconds. Let's
call it a "dol". There are 864 dols in one day. I go to work around
250 dols, but today I was almost 20 dols late.

I
think we are stuck with it. Switching to a new system would be
essentially insurmountable.

**RPM?

The 24 and 60 fractions.

Don't get me started on the way we divide the year.
--
RoRo

 

[Robert Roland]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 03:50:38 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Six foot skis are very convenient, but 180 cm are not
so much.

Why do you think that is? Because that's what you are USED TO, of
course. If you told me you skis are "six foot" long, I would have no
clue if they were too long or too short for me. If you told me they
are "one eighty", I'd know right away.

If you told me they are 1800 mm long, I'd still know right away. If I
told you they are 72 inches, you'd have to think about it for a
second. It is more convenient to move a decimal separator than to
divide by 12.

Another example, PCB traces are still measured in thousandths of
an inch even when working with metric sized boards because the numbers are
much more convenient, i.e. 6/6 vs. 0.1524 mm.

You've got it all backwards. I would make that trace 0.15 mm, which is
much more convenient than 5.90551181 thousandths of an inch.

Obviously, the inch is more convenient when you choose an example that
is a nice, round fraction of an inch.

Your example uses a unit that is ONE THOUSANDTH of an inch. You can't
do that. The thousand (and the hundred and the ten) belongs to the
metric system. The imperial system uses halves, quarters, eighths and
so on. Your trace is roughly 3/512 of an inch if you were to stick to
your system.
--
RoRo

 

[rickman]

Robert Roland wrote on 9/1/2017 2:51 PM:

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 03:50:38 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Six foot skis are very convenient, but 180 cm are not
so much.

Why do you think that is? Because that's what you are USED TO, of
course. If you told me you skis are "six foot" long, I would have no
clue if they were too long or too short for me. If you told me they
are "one eighty", I'd know right away.

I'm not talking about the familiarity of the units, I'm talking about the
convenience. Just like the Brits still use stones for weight because they
don't need the precision of knowing they are 224 pounds, but 16 stone is
very handy.

If you told me they are 1800 mm long, I'd still know right away. If I
told you they are 72 inches, you'd have to think about it for a
second. It is more convenient to move a decimal separator than to
divide by 12.

Now you are getting close. I buy stuff on ebay and it is not uncommon to
see dimensions of 4 digits in mm when it would be more convenient in dm or
even just meters, but easily more convenient in feet or inches. mm are far
more precise than needed for most measurements and awkward to scribe on
rulers since the lines need to be so thin they are hard to see. I expect
tape measures are graduated in 2 mm divisions. If they aren't, they should be.

Another example, PCB traces are still measured in thousandths of
an inch even when working with metric sized boards because the numbers are
much more convenient, i.e. 6/6 vs. 0.1524 mm.

You've got it all backwards. I would make that trace 0.15 mm, which is
much more convenient than 5.90551181 thousandths of an inch.

Obviously, the inch is more convenient when you choose an example that
is a nice, round fraction of an inch.

I would love for all PCB measurements to be metric since the parts on the
board are all metric. But I don't write the software and I don't design the
web interfaces that 90% use mils and not metric. Now that trace/space
measurements are getting to be fractions of mils, we may see that change,
but small unit numbers are always more convenient than fractions or large
numbers. That's why we have wire gauge, etc.

Your example uses a unit that is ONE THOUSANDTH of an inch. You can't
do that. The thousand (and the hundred and the ten) belongs to the
metric system. The imperial system uses halves, quarters, eighths and
so on. Your trace is roughly 3/512 of an inch if you were to stick to
your system.

Ok, I'll inform the world. World! Consider yourself on notice!!! No more
use of mils or micro-inches!

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

Robert Roland wrote on 9/1/2017 2:08 PM:

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 06:28:09 +1000, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units.

**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball?

Yes, the second is totally weird. Its original definition is one
86,400th of a day. Who in their right mind would divide something into
86,400 parts?

There are two basic units of time; the day and the year. Those are
astronomically defined. We pick one of those as the base unit. This
can be split into thousandths or millionths or whatever is practical
for the application. What we today know as a second is simply 11.6
microdays, or 31.7 nanoyears. I sleep about 300 millidays each night.

As you suggest, the second is so ingrained in everything that there is
no realistic way to get rid of it. But at least, let's abolish the
minute and the hour. Introduce a new unit that is 100 seconds. Let's
call it a "dol". There are 864 dols in one day. I go to work around
250 dols, but today I was almost 20 dols late.

To what advantage exactly???

I
think we are stuck with it. Switching to a new system would be
essentially insurmountable.

**RPM?

The 24 and 60 fractions.

Don't get me started on the way we divide the year.

Don't worry, we won't.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Guys and gals, Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens.

Personally, I spend some years in a metric country and learned in short order how to shift my thought process, as well as to read (modern) Arabic numbers. And, "thinking about it", should it avoid a Mars-type screw-up is, perhaps, not a bad thing. Any unit may be sufficiently divided to achieve necessary precision. I also spent a number of years working as a machinist for a company that made the liquid sodium pump seals for French breeder reactors. And the same machinist would make SAE parts on the same machine as he would make Metric parts - using the same measuring sticks, keeping all the while in his head how they divided and compared. That is what those guys did, and did it exceedingly well. Me, I was mostly QC - and signing off (literally acid-etching my name on a part or assembly) on their work.

Yes, we did think of dimensions and measurements. Every day. And we lost no sleep whatsoever on which was 'better'. As long as the parts fit.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <f276d223-93b1-443d-9c23-9e14dd90f895@googlegroups.com>,
pfjw@aol.com says...

Guys and gals, Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens.

I thought that was a USA mission. (Assuming by "corresponding units" you
really mean _not_ corresponding units!) Which mission was it?

Mike.

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <oocbrv$jhc$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...

There are two basic units of time; the day and the year. Those are
astronomically defined. ...

Except IIRC the "day" is ambiguous astronomically is you don't
distinguish solar day (in usual parlance, e.g. between the sun being due
south) and stellar with the stars returning to their same positions
overhead. These two have to have a difference that adds up to a whole
day over the course of the year.

Mike.

 

[Andy Burns]

Mike Coon wrote:

pfjw@aol.com says...

Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens.

I thought that was a USA mission. Which mission was it?

<https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/>

 

[rickman]

pfjw@aol.com wrote on 9/1/2017 3:58 PM:
> Guys and gals, Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens.

Lol! How many millions went up in smoke?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

Mike Coon wrote on 9/1/2017 6:17 PM:

In article <oocbrv$jhc$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...

There are two basic units of time; the day and the year. Those are
astronomically defined. ...

Except IIRC the "day" is ambiguous astronomically is you don't
distinguish solar day (in usual parlance, e.g. between the sun being due
south) and stellar with the stars returning to their same positions
overhead. These two have to have a difference that adds up to a whole
day over the course of the year.

Is that a solar year or a sidereal year?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <f0u91oFdchfU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@andyburns.uk
says...

Mike Coon wrote:

pfjw@aol.com says...

Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens.

I thought that was a USA mission. Which mission was it?

https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/

Thanks for that: it is described as "NASA?s Mars Climate Orbiter" which
sounds like a USA mission to me!

Mike.

 

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 31/08/17 20:55, Mark Storkamp wrote:

In article <oo9fh3$17a$1@dont-email.me>,
Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> wrote:

I think they would be 4.5 drpm.

The French for a time tried decimal time where there were 10 hours in a
day and 100 minutes in an hour. So in decimal minutes, or dm, it would be
64.8 rpdm or 6.48 drpdm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time

--
Adrian C