Continuous Operation From Grid-Battery Tractors

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.

For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.

When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.

The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.

Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.

If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.

There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.

The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
get started.


Bret Cahill

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
wrote:

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.

For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.

When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.

The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.

Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.

If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.

There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.

The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
get started.


Bret Cahill

Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?

John

 

[Don Bowey]

On 7/28/08 10:09 AM, in article
46f5284c-4fe6-4590-aa0d-c2934a024ce2@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
"BretCahill@peoplepc.com" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes.

How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to be that batteries can be
charged "every few minutes?"

90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.

For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.

When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.

The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.

Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.

If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.

There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.

The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
get started.


Bret Cahill

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:01:52 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net>
wrote:

How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to be that batteries can be
charged "every few minutes?"

---
Yup.

In the end, this "Brett Cahill" persona seems to be nothing more than
a troll.

JF

 

[Don Bowey]

On 7/28/08 6:05 PM, in article 6f78mjFa5criU1@mid.individual.net, "Rod
Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote
Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net> wrote

How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to
be that batteries can be charged "every few minutes?"

And it isnt even possible to charge them that quickly either.

I imagine his fix for that is to "just" have more spares available.

Yup.

In the end, this "Brett Cahill" persona seems to be nothing more than a
troll.

He's not a troll, just another silly little child that doesnt have a clue
about the basics.

He appears to be a wannabe wheeler dealer. From viewing his activity on
other topics, my impression is he thinks he's an idea man.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
wrote:

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or
in some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.

For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric
tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact
wires at the ends of the field.

When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.

The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.

Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.

If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.

There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be
cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the
grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something
like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor.

The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits
at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest
easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just
a way to get started.

Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?

Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?

I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
improve productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some
goodly number of them haven't already considered all sorts of options
to save energy, electrically or otherwise.

Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical
engineering, or mechanical design.

John

 

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. �Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. �90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.

For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.

When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. �After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.

The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.

Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.

If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.

There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. �In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.

The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. �It was just a way to
get started.

> Bret Cahill

 

[Don Bowey]

On 7/28/08 9:20 PM, in article
d9a9a091-5c26-4d2a-8a0a-302229171828@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
"BretCahill@peoplepc.com" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

Cite?

I see no calculations or worked sums there.

That's the most pathetic excuse for a meaningful post I've ever read.
You're hugely pathetic.

 

[Don Bowey]

On 7/28/08 9:25 PM, in article
41d37076-31f2-472e-a360-b7324c856a6c@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com,
"BretCahill@peoplepc.com" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:

I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
improve productivity or just have fun.

Cite?

Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

I see no calculations or worked sums there.

Do your own research, dummy. It's your project and we aren't your gofers.

 

Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

Cite?

I see no calculations or worked sums there.

 

I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
improve productivity or just have fun.

Cite?

Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

I see no calculations or worked sums there.

 

[Bill Ward]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:50:54 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
wrote:

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.

For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.

When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.

The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.

Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.

If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.

There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.

The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
get started.

Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?

Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?


I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty inventive
people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to improve
productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some goodly number of
them haven't already considered all sorts of options to save energy,
electrically or otherwise.

Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical
engineering, or mechanical design.

Actually, I think he has, but somewhat indirectly.

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:50:54 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?

Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?


I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
improve productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some
goodly number of them haven't already considered all sorts of options
to save energy, electrically or otherwise.

Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical
engineering, or mechanical design.

---
You can't fill a glass from an empty pitcher.

JF

 

[Bret Cahill]

That's the most pathetic excuse for a meaningful post I've ever read.

Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

Cite?

I see no calculations or worked sums there.

 

[Bret Cahill]

Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

Cite?

I see no calculations or worked sums there.

 

[Bret Cahill]

Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or
in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.

Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.


For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.


When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.


The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.


Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.


If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.


There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be
cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.


The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits
at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
get started.


Bret Cahill