Conical inductors--still $10!...

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 12:15 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:18:11 +0100, Michael Kellett <mk@mkesc.co.uk
wrote:

Found this on \"All about Ciruits\" -

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/micron-digital-claims-to-have-eliminated-drifting-in-imus/?utm_source=All+About+Circuits+Members&utm_campaign=a3e890e124-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_07_09_11_04_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2565529c4b-a3e890e124-280503221

It takes you here:

http://www.romos.io/index.asp?FPFHFGFHIRJEIJILIG

They claim an inertial measuring breakthrough:

\"Once initialized, ROMOS will experience a maximum of 0.5mm static
variance offset from true position data over its operational lifetime.\"

With a dose of snake oil.

\"Using higher dimensional computations with back-propagation, Drift is
also eliminated from positional data.\"

This sounds like the standard 6-state or 9-state Kalman Filter. They
do work in big vector spaces.

External references are also provided to this Kalman Filter.

The information to cancel drift is not in the IMU data, so software
can do nothing to cancel drift from IMU data alone.


There is an absurd video too.

It\'s way to good (by many orders of magnitude) to be true - but what\'s
the point ?

How do they make money, are they hoping to trap just one lunatic venture
capitalist ?

I would think that a direct test would end the game, so I don\'t see
how even a lunatic investor could be fooled for long.

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.


Joe Gwinn

I don\'t see what\'s intrinsically bullshit or about claims of an inertial
measurement breakthrough vs. claims of real woo like cold fusion or
machines that run on their own power.

This doesn\'t seem quite in that same vein, and I doubt there\'s anyone
here with the qualifications to make credible commentary as to what\'s
actually possible or isn\'t with whatever machine-learning technique they
say they\'re applying. If they do have patents that\'s some amount of
credibility, I don\'t know whether I\'d trust my own evaluation of the
claims any more than the patent office, they\'re not all just
rubber-stampers who let any old thing fly.

Either they\'ll deliver, or they won\'t, most things in life tend to be
one thing or the other. But it seems like more of a gamble than an
outright \"scam\" that breaks the laws of physics without further
information. it\'s the kind of gamble VC people do day in and day out and
win or lose on, depending.

If they can\'t or won\'t provide references to the patents they claim to
have that would surely make me more skeptical

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 12:15 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:18:11 +0100, Michael Kellett <mk@mkesc.co.uk
wrote:

Found this on \"All about Ciruits\" -

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/micron-digital-claims-to-have-eliminated-drifting-in-imus/?utm_source=All+About+Circuits+Members&utm_campaign=a3e890e124-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_07_09_11_04_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2565529c4b-a3e890e124-280503221

It takes you here:

http://www.romos.io/index.asp?FPFHFGFHIRJEIJILIG

They claim an inertial measuring breakthrough:

\"Once initialized, ROMOS will experience a maximum of 0.5mm static
variance offset from true position data over its operational lifetime.\"

With a dose of snake oil.

\"Using higher dimensional computations with back-propagation, Drift is
also eliminated from positional data.\"

This sounds like the standard 6-state or 9-state Kalman Filter. They
do work in big vector spaces.

External references are also provided to this Kalman Filter.

The information to cancel drift is not in the IMU data, so software
can do nothing to cancel drift from IMU data alone.


There is an absurd video too.

It\'s way to good (by many orders of magnitude) to be true - but what\'s
the point ?

How do they make money, are they hoping to trap just one lunatic venture
capitalist ?

I would think that a direct test would end the game, so I don\'t see
how even a lunatic investor could be fooled for long.

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.


Joe Gwinn

I don\'t see what\'s intrinsically bullshit or about claims of an inertial
measurement breakthrough vs. claims of real woo like cold fusion or
machines that run on their own power.

This doesn\'t seem quite in that same vein, and I doubt there\'s anyone
here with the qualifications to make credible commentary as to what\'s
actually possible or isn\'t with whatever machine-learning technique they
say they\'re applying. If they do have patents that\'s some amount of
credibility, I don\'t know whether I\'d trust my own evaluation of the
claims any more than the patent office, they\'re not all just
rubber-stampers who let any old thing fly.

Either they\'ll deliver, or they won\'t, most things in life tend to be
one thing or the other. But it seems like more of a gamble than an
outright \"scam\" that breaks the laws of physics without further
information. it\'s the kind of gamble VC people do day in and day out and
win or lose on, depending.

If they can\'t or won\'t provide references to the patents they claim to
have that would surely make me more skeptical

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 12:15 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:18:11 +0100, Michael Kellett <mk@mkesc.co.uk
wrote:

Found this on \"All about Ciruits\" -

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/micron-digital-claims-to-have-eliminated-drifting-in-imus/?utm_source=All+About+Circuits+Members&utm_campaign=a3e890e124-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_07_09_11_04_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2565529c4b-a3e890e124-280503221

It takes you here:

http://www.romos.io/index.asp?FPFHFGFHIRJEIJILIG

They claim an inertial measuring breakthrough:

\"Once initialized, ROMOS will experience a maximum of 0.5mm static
variance offset from true position data over its operational lifetime.\"

With a dose of snake oil.

\"Using higher dimensional computations with back-propagation, Drift is
also eliminated from positional data.\"

This sounds like the standard 6-state or 9-state Kalman Filter. They
do work in big vector spaces.

External references are also provided to this Kalman Filter.

The information to cancel drift is not in the IMU data, so software
can do nothing to cancel drift from IMU data alone.


There is an absurd video too.

It\'s way to good (by many orders of magnitude) to be true - but what\'s
the point ?

How do they make money, are they hoping to trap just one lunatic venture
capitalist ?

I would think that a direct test would end the game, so I don\'t see
how even a lunatic investor could be fooled for long.

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.


Joe Gwinn

I don\'t see what\'s intrinsically bullshit or about claims of an inertial
measurement breakthrough vs. claims of real woo like cold fusion or
machines that run on their own power.

This doesn\'t seem quite in that same vein, and I doubt there\'s anyone
here with the qualifications to make credible commentary as to what\'s
actually possible or isn\'t with whatever machine-learning technique they
say they\'re applying. If they do have patents that\'s some amount of
credibility, I don\'t know whether I\'d trust my own evaluation of the
claims any more than the patent office, they\'re not all just
rubber-stampers who let any old thing fly.

Either they\'ll deliver, or they won\'t, most things in life tend to be
one thing or the other. But it seems like more of a gamble than an
outright \"scam\" that breaks the laws of physics without further
information. it\'s the kind of gamble VC people do day in and day out and
win or lose on, depending.

If they can\'t or won\'t provide references to the patents they claim to
have that would surely make me more skeptical

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 1:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:13 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.
Joe Gwinn

Same company name, but in Hong Kong:
Wearable wireless HMI device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10318000B2/en
2017-12-11 Application filed by Micron Digital Corp (hk) Limited)
You\'re looking for a company in Canada, not Hong Kong.

I couldn\'t find any other patents under \"Micron Digital\".

This might be the company president:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohit-seth-8478a7150/?originalSubdomain=ca

I haven\'t seen their own documentation, but I know it\'s good to be
skeptical if anyone uses terms like \"breakthrough\" or \"revolutionary\" or
such superlatives in their own material.

People who make real \"breakthroughs\" don\'t need to hang a lampshade on
it, anyone in the field will be able to recognize it for what it is.
It\'s like being the sexiest blonde bombshell in the nightclub, she
doesn\'t need to put a sign on herself that says \"Sexiest blonde in
nightclub\" the target audience will figure it out.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 1:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:13 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.
Joe Gwinn

Same company name, but in Hong Kong:
Wearable wireless HMI device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10318000B2/en
2017-12-11 Application filed by Micron Digital Corp (hk) Limited)
You\'re looking for a company in Canada, not Hong Kong.

I couldn\'t find any other patents under \"Micron Digital\".

This might be the company president:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohit-seth-8478a7150/?originalSubdomain=ca

I haven\'t seen their own documentation, but I know it\'s good to be
skeptical if anyone uses terms like \"breakthrough\" or \"revolutionary\" or
such superlatives in their own material.

People who make real \"breakthroughs\" don\'t need to hang a lampshade on
it, anyone in the field will be able to recognize it for what it is.
It\'s like being the sexiest blonde bombshell in the nightclub, she
doesn\'t need to put a sign on herself that says \"Sexiest blonde in
nightclub\" the target audience will figure it out.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 1:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:13 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.
Joe Gwinn

Same company name, but in Hong Kong:
Wearable wireless HMI device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10318000B2/en
2017-12-11 Application filed by Micron Digital Corp (hk) Limited)
You\'re looking for a company in Canada, not Hong Kong.

I couldn\'t find any other patents under \"Micron Digital\".

This might be the company president:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohit-seth-8478a7150/?originalSubdomain=ca

I haven\'t seen their own documentation, but I know it\'s good to be
skeptical if anyone uses terms like \"breakthrough\" or \"revolutionary\" or
such superlatives in their own material.

People who make real \"breakthroughs\" don\'t need to hang a lampshade on
it, anyone in the field will be able to recognize it for what it is.
It\'s like being the sexiest blonde bombshell in the nightclub, she
doesn\'t need to put a sign on herself that says \"Sexiest blonde in
nightclub\" the target audience will figure it out.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/15/2020 1:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:13 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.
Joe Gwinn

Same company name, but in Hong Kong:
Wearable wireless HMI device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10318000B2/en
2017-12-11 Application filed by Micron Digital Corp (hk) Limited)
You\'re looking for a company in Canada, not Hong Kong.

I couldn\'t find any other patents under \"Micron Digital\".

This might be the company president:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohit-seth-8478a7150/?originalSubdomain=ca




I haven\'t seen their own documentation, but I know it\'s good to be
skeptical if anyone uses terms like \"breakthrough\" or \"revolutionary\" or
such superlatives in their own material.

People who make real \"breakthroughs\" don\'t need to hang a lampshade on
it, anyone in the field will be able to recognize it for what it is.
It\'s like being the sexiest blonde bombshell in the nightclub, she
doesn\'t need to put a sign on herself that says \"Sexiest blonde in
nightclub\" the target audience will figure it out.

Their technical documents, to be clear, marketing departments do as they do.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/15/2020 1:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:13 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.
Joe Gwinn

Same company name, but in Hong Kong:
Wearable wireless HMI device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10318000B2/en
2017-12-11 Application filed by Micron Digital Corp (hk) Limited)
You\'re looking for a company in Canada, not Hong Kong.

I couldn\'t find any other patents under \"Micron Digital\".

This might be the company president:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohit-seth-8478a7150/?originalSubdomain=ca




I haven\'t seen their own documentation, but I know it\'s good to be
skeptical if anyone uses terms like \"breakthrough\" or \"revolutionary\" or
such superlatives in their own material.

People who make real \"breakthroughs\" don\'t need to hang a lampshade on
it, anyone in the field will be able to recognize it for what it is.
It\'s like being the sexiest blonde bombshell in the nightclub, she
doesn\'t need to put a sign on herself that says \"Sexiest blonde in
nightclub\" the target audience will figure it out.

Their technical documents, to be clear, marketing departments do as they do.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/15/2020 1:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:13 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

Micron Dynamics claims that the technology is patented, so I sent an
email asking for patent numbers.
Joe Gwinn

Same company name, but in Hong Kong:
Wearable wireless HMI device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10318000B2/en
2017-12-11 Application filed by Micron Digital Corp (hk) Limited)
You\'re looking for a company in Canada, not Hong Kong.

I couldn\'t find any other patents under \"Micron Digital\".

This might be the company president:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohit-seth-8478a7150/?originalSubdomain=ca




I haven\'t seen their own documentation, but I know it\'s good to be
skeptical if anyone uses terms like \"breakthrough\" or \"revolutionary\" or
such superlatives in their own material.

People who make real \"breakthroughs\" don\'t need to hang a lampshade on
it, anyone in the field will be able to recognize it for what it is.
It\'s like being the sexiest blonde bombshell in the nightclub, she
doesn\'t need to put a sign on herself that says \"Sexiest blonde in
nightclub\" the target audience will figure it out.

Their technical documents, to be clear, marketing departments do as they do.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:59:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/15/2020 1:05 PM, blocher@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
Today\'s Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences has this paper

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/06/23/2006048117.full.pdf

Apparently if you spend time spelling out what exponential growth really means, even conservatives become more willing to take social distancing seriously.

It probably won\'t work on John Larkin who is really resistant to having things spelled out for him, and wouldn\'t work for Trump, who hasn\'t got a long enough attention span to let him absorb the message.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Trying to \"educate\" people about exponential growth with an obtuse paper is not a good strategy. What is the takeaway in a couple of sentences?


I will tell you, but you\'ll have to pay me. But only in pennies - I work
very cheap!

Just take this checkerboard and put one penny on the first square, two
on the second, four on the third...

And you soon run out of pennies, and places to stack them. That\'s the
reality of exponential growth in real systems.

Look at the covid case curves. They went linear very early on, at a
few per cent of the ultimate peak.

Don\'t you people ever analyze systems?

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:59:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/15/2020 1:05 PM, blocher@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
Today\'s Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences has this paper

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/06/23/2006048117.full.pdf

Apparently if you spend time spelling out what exponential growth really means, even conservatives become more willing to take social distancing seriously.

It probably won\'t work on John Larkin who is really resistant to having things spelled out for him, and wouldn\'t work for Trump, who hasn\'t got a long enough attention span to let him absorb the message.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Trying to \"educate\" people about exponential growth with an obtuse paper is not a good strategy. What is the takeaway in a couple of sentences?


I will tell you, but you\'ll have to pay me. But only in pennies - I work
very cheap!

Just take this checkerboard and put one penny on the first square, two
on the second, four on the third...

And you soon run out of pennies, and places to stack them. That\'s the
reality of exponential growth in real systems.

Look at the covid case curves. They went linear very early on, at a
few per cent of the ultimate peak.

Don\'t you people ever analyze systems?

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:59:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/15/2020 1:05 PM, blocher@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
Today\'s Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences has this paper

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/06/23/2006048117.full.pdf

Apparently if you spend time spelling out what exponential growth really means, even conservatives become more willing to take social distancing seriously.

It probably won\'t work on John Larkin who is really resistant to having things spelled out for him, and wouldn\'t work for Trump, who hasn\'t got a long enough attention span to let him absorb the message.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Trying to \"educate\" people about exponential growth with an obtuse paper is not a good strategy. What is the takeaway in a couple of sentences?


I will tell you, but you\'ll have to pay me. But only in pennies - I work
very cheap!

Just take this checkerboard and put one penny on the first square, two
on the second, four on the third...

And you soon run out of pennies, and places to stack them. That\'s the
reality of exponential growth in real systems.

Look at the covid case curves. They went linear very early on, at a
few per cent of the ultimate peak.

Don\'t you people ever analyze systems?

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:

So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why..

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:

So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why..

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:

So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why..

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:38:25 PM UTC-7, Simon S Aysdie wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why.

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

btw, AVX also makes conicals now.

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:38:25 PM UTC-7, Simon S Aysdie wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why.

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

btw, AVX also makes conicals now.

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:38:25 PM UTC-7, Simon S Aysdie wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why.

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

btw, AVX also makes conicals now.

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:31:37 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Look at the covid case curves. They went linear very early on, at a
few per cent of the ultimate peak.

Don\'t you people ever analyze systems?

That\'s not analysis, when you aggregate all cases into curves.
Analysis is breaking down the situation into parts, and dealing individually
with the parts.
Drastic measures taken to control the spread of the disease... those are
important parts, and aren\'t visible without analysis. That\'s why John Larkin
doesn\'t see the importance; he\'s not conversant with the analysis principle.

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:31:37 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Look at the covid case curves. They went linear very early on, at a
few per cent of the ultimate peak.

Don\'t you people ever analyze systems?

That\'s not analysis, when you aggregate all cases into curves.
Analysis is breaking down the situation into parts, and dealing individually
with the parts.
Drastic measures taken to control the spread of the disease... those are
important parts, and aren\'t visible without analysis. That\'s why John Larkin
doesn\'t see the importance; he\'s not conversant with the analysis principle.