Coils

[Chiron]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 06:32:06 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

<snip>

http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/coil/index.html

This is great. I'm familiar with Lindsay - I've gotten books from them
before. Thank you for this link.



--
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington

 

[Chiron]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:33:47 -0800, George Herold wrote:

<snip>

I wonder whether there is any sort of foot-operated switch that lets
you adjust the speed... that would be a major help, since this motor
turns faster than I can feed in wire (10,000 RPM).

Wow.. much to fast, in my opinion. (That actually sounds a bit scary.)
We use the back gear in the lathe to really slow it down. Is there some
way to rig up some reduction gearing?

George H.

I'm sure there's some way to do it, but I'm not sure *I* could do it.
I'm not mechanically gifted.

I really got taken with this "coil winder," I think. It's mostly just a
fast, powerful (1/7 HP) motor on a platform, with a chuck and a counter.
I cannot imagine how anyone could have used the thing for winding coils.
OTOH, it *is* a nice, big motor that could probably be useful for
something. Maybe a Van de Graaff generator or something...

I've been seeing people talking about PWM.  I've never worked with
that, but it might be something to try for the motor.

--
Rarely do people communicate; they just take turns talking.

 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:36:28 GMT, Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:33:47 -0800, George Herold wrote:

snip

I wonder whether there is any sort of foot-operated switch that lets
you adjust the speed... that would be a major help, since this motor
turns faster than I can feed in wire (10,000 RPM).

Wow.. much to fast, in my opinion. (That actually sounds a bit scary.)
We use the back gear in the lathe to really slow it down. Is there some
way to rig up some reduction gearing?

George H.

I'm sure there's some way to do it, but I'm not sure *I* could do it.
I'm not mechanically gifted.

I really got taken with this "coil winder," I think. It's mostly just a
fast, powerful (1/7 HP) motor on a platform, with a chuck and a counter.
I cannot imagine how anyone could have used the thing for winding coils.
OTOH, it *is* a nice, big motor that could probably be useful for
something. Maybe a Van de Graaff generator or something...


I've been seeing people talking about PWM.  I've never worked with
that, but it might be something to try for the motor.
Since the motor is a 10,000 rpm motor I assume it is either a DC motor

or a "universal" motor. Like a drill motor. I have used lamp dimmers
on these types of motors. Properly rated for the current the motor
draws they work well and are cheap. And they are PWM devices so the
torque will stay pretty constant. Even though the cheap ones are made
for resistive loads only according to the package I have never had one
fail prematurely.
Eric

 

[Jamie]

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:36:28 GMT, Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> wrote:


On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:33:47 -0800, George Herold wrote:

snip

I wonder whether there is any sort of foot-operated switch that lets
you adjust the speed... that would be a major help, since this motor
turns faster than I can feed in wire (10,000 RPM).

Wow.. much to fast, in my opinion. (That actually sounds a bit scary.)
We use the back gear in the lathe to really slow it down. Is there some
way to rig up some reduction gearing?

George H.

I'm sure there's some way to do it, but I'm not sure *I* could do it.
I'm not mechanically gifted.

I really got taken with this "coil winder," I think. It's mostly just a
fast, powerful (1/7 HP) motor on a platform, with a chuck and a counter.
I cannot imagine how anyone could have used the thing for winding coils.
OTOH, it *is* a nice, big motor that could probably be useful for
something. Maybe a Van de Graaff generator or something...


I've been seeing people talking about PWM. I've never worked with
that, but it might be something to try for the motor.

Since the motor is a 10,000 rpm motor I assume it is either a DC motor
or a "universal" motor. Like a drill motor. I have used lamp dimmers
on these types of motors. Properly rated for the current the motor
draws they work well and are cheap. And they are PWM devices so the
torque will stay pretty constant. Even though the cheap ones are made
for resistive loads only according to the package I have never had one
fail prematurely.
Eric
Must be some expensive house whole dimmers? Most I've seen are phase

angle firing with triacs or quadacs.

Jamie

 

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 14:33:45 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:36:28 GMT, Chiron <chiron613@gmail.com> wrote:


On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:33:47 -0800, George Herold wrote:

snip

I wonder whether there is any sort of foot-operated switch that lets
you adjust the speed... that would be a major help, since this motor
turns faster than I can feed in wire (10,000 RPM).

Wow.. much to fast, in my opinion. (That actually sounds a bit scary.)
We use the back gear in the lathe to really slow it down. Is there some
way to rig up some reduction gearing?

George H.

I'm sure there's some way to do it, but I'm not sure *I* could do it.
I'm not mechanically gifted.

I really got taken with this "coil winder," I think. It's mostly just a
fast, powerful (1/7 HP) motor on a platform, with a chuck and a counter.
I cannot imagine how anyone could have used the thing for winding coils.
OTOH, it *is* a nice, big motor that could probably be useful for
something. Maybe a Van de Graaff generator or something...


I've been seeing people talking about PWM. I've never worked with
that, but it might be something to try for the motor.

Since the motor is a 10,000 rpm motor I assume it is either a DC motor
or a "universal" motor. Like a drill motor. I have used lamp dimmers
on these types of motors. Properly rated for the current the motor
draws they work well and are cheap. And they are PWM devices so the
torque will stay pretty constant. Even though the cheap ones are made
for resistive loads only according to the package I have never had one
fail prematurely.
Eric
Must be some expensive house whole dimmers? Most I've seen are phase
angle firing with triacs or quadacs.

Jamie


Whoops! You're right Jamie. The cheap ones are as you describe. I do

have some 12 volt PWM motor controllers that I built myself from kits
and was thinking of those. Nevertheless, the cheap lamp dimmers do
work pretty well for controlling the speed of universal motors.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-01-27, Winston <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote:

George Herold wrote:

See how he's adapted a cable to allow foot
control of the motor speed?

As soon as I saw that I thought "Coil Winder"!

mount a chuck on the back wheel of a domestic sewing machine,

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

 

[Ivan Vegvary]

How the heck do you do that? What sort of arrangement would work for
that?

I've wound several coils to keep my pinball machines going. Usually on a cardboard or plastic core. Core diameter about 3/8 inches, final coil diameter a little over an inch.

I own an old metal lathe that can be run as slow as 50 RPM. Bought a cheap click type counter and attached it to the lathe so I can count revolutions.. I feed the magnet wire by letting it slip through my hands. After you've would your second one, they come out rather pretty.

Ivan Vegvary

 

[Winston]

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-01-27, Winston<Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote:
George Herold wrote:

See how he's adapted a cable to allow foot
control of the motor speed?

As soon as I saw that I thought "Coil Winder"!

mount a chuck on the back wheel of a domestic sewing machine,

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4OVsFWYyw

--Winston

 

[Michael Black]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Winston wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2012-01-27, Winston<Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote:
George Herold wrote:

See how he's adapted a cable to allow foot
control of the motor speed?

As soon as I saw that I thought "Coil Winder"!

mount a chuck on the back wheel of a domestic sewing machine,

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

That sort of thing wasn't uncommon 35 years ago, once there were cheap

calculators. One could also use a pedometer, now made cheap since they've
become faddish, and thus available in cereal and garage sales.

Of course, one could just strip an old cassette deck, and use the counter
from that, so long as one could properly connect it to the rest of the
mechanism.

Michael

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4OVsFWYyw

--Winston

 

[Winston]

Michael Black wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Winston wrote:

(...)

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

That sort of thing wasn't uncommon 35 years ago, once there were cheap calculators.

One could also use a pedometer, now made cheap since they've become faddish, and
thus available in cereal and garage sales.

I bought a couple for just that use. Unfortunately they stop working
properly at lower battery voltage and the 'calculator' solution yields
a unit with a larger display anyway.

Of course, one could just strip an old cassette deck, and use the counter from that, so long as one could properly
connect it to the rest of the mechanism.

Thassa lot of work. I'd go as far as putting an opto interrupter
wired across the "=" key of a dollar store calculator but not
much more.

--Winston

 

[George Herold]

On Jan 30, 7:09 pm, Winston <Wins...@Bigbrother.net> wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Winston wrote:

(...)

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

That sort of thing wasn't uncommon 35 years ago, once there were cheap calculators.
One could also use a pedometer, now  made cheap since they've become faddish, and

 > thus available in cereal and garage sales.

I bought a couple for just that use. Unfortunately they stop working
properly at lower battery voltage and the 'calculator' solution yields
a unit with a larger display anyway.

Of course, one could just strip an old cassette deck, and use the counter from that, so long as one could properly
connect it to the rest of the mechanism.

Thassa lot of work.  I'd go as far as putting an opto interrupter
wired across the "=" key of a dollar store calculator but not
much more.  

--Winston

A colleague made a magnetic quadrature counter that could do
direction....
which is nice if you want to take a few turns off.
(Hall sensors and two magnets)


The electronics were made for a different signal.
http://www.teachspin.com/instruments/moderni/experiments.shtml#die

You get four counts per revolution.

George H.

 

[Winston]

George Herold wrote:

On Jan 30, 7:09 pm, Winston<Wins...@Bigbrother.net> wrote:
Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Winston wrote:

(...)

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

That sort of thing wasn't uncommon 35 years ago, once there were cheap calculators.
One could also use a pedometer, now made cheap since they've become faddish, and

thus available in cereal and garage sales.

I bought a couple for just that use. Unfortunately they stop working
properly at lower battery voltage and the 'calculator' solution yields
a unit with a larger display anyway.

Of course, one could just strip an old cassette deck, and use the counter from that, so long as one could properly
connect it to the rest of the mechanism.

Thassa lot of work. I'd go as far as putting an opto interrupter
wired across the "=" key of a dollar store calculator but not
much more.

--Winston

A colleague made a magnetic quadrature counter that could do
direction....
which is nice if you want to take a few turns off.
(Hall sensors and two magnets)


The electronics were made for a different signal.
http://www.teachspin.com/instruments/moderni/experiments.shtml#die

You get four counts per revolution.

Wow! I was just getting used to the ultra-fine divisions in regular
encoder wheels and you show me an apparatus with sub-wavelength
resolution! Incredible!

--Winston

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Chiron wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 06:32:06 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

snip


http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/coil/index.html

This is great. I'm familiar with Lindsay - I've gotten books from them
before. Thank you for this link.

You're welcome. I'm in the early stages of design to build one with
stepper motors and an Arduino board to control them. There is also
EMC/Linux CNC that could be used with an old PC.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Winston wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2012-01-27, Winston<Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote:
George Herold wrote:

See how he's adapted a cable to allow foot
control of the motor speed?

As soon as I saw that I thought "Coil Winder"!

mount a chuck on the back wheel of a domestic sewing machine,

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

Skycraft surplus has used a four banger on their wire measuring
machine for a long time. It was old when I first saw it in 1987.
Instead of a mechanical cam, the calculator was hacked and the switch
was part of the mechanics.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

 

[George Herold]

On Jan 31, 12:05 am, Winston <Wins...@Bigbrother.net> wrote:

George Herold wrote:
On Jan 30, 7:09 pm, Winston<Wins...@Bigbrother.net>  wrote:
Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Winston wrote:

(...)

And see how this guy uses a cheap calculator
as a turns counter?! Genius!

That sort of thing wasn't uncommon 35 years ago, once there were cheap calculators.
One could also use a pedometer, now  made cheap since they've become faddish, and

  >  thus available in cereal and garage sales.

I bought a couple for just that use. Unfortunately they stop working
properly at lower battery voltage and the 'calculator' solution yields
a unit with a larger display anyway.

Of course, one could just strip an old cassette deck, and use the counter from that, so long as one could properly
connect it to the rest of the mechanism.

Thassa lot of work.  I'd go as far as putting an opto interrupter
wired across the "=" key of a dollar store calculator but not
much more.  

--Winston

A colleague made a magnetic quadrature counter that could do
direction....
which is nice if you want to take a few turns off.
(Hall sensors and two magnets)

The electronics were made for a different signal.
http://www.teachspin.com/instruments/moderni/experiments.shtml#die

You get four counts per revolution.

Wow! I was just getting used to the ultra-fine divisions in regular
encoder wheels and you show me an apparatus with sub-wavelength
resolution!  Incredible!

--Winston- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Grin... sure but it costs a bit more than an encoder wheel.
Each count is 1/8th of the wavelength, less than 100nm... does that
count as nanotech? :^)
What I hadn't known about the quadrature technique is that the (phase)
noise stays all on the 'rim' of the circle. I guess that's 'obvious'
in retrospect.

George H.

 

[Winston]

George Herold wrote:

On Jan 31, 12:05 am, Winston<Wins...@Bigbrother.net> wrote:

(...)

Wow! I was just getting used to the ultra-fine divisions in regular
encoder wheels and you show me an apparatus with sub-wavelength
resolution! Incredible!

--Winston- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Grin... sure but it costs a bit more than an encoder wheel.

That's reasonable!

Each count is 1/8th of the wavelength, less than 100nm... does that
count as nanotech? :^)
What I hadn't known about the quadrature technique is that the (phase)
noise stays all on the 'rim' of the circle. I guess that's 'obvious'
in retrospect.

I'll take your word for it.

--Winston