cholesterol

On Saturday, 2 November 2019 06:47:05 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 11:51:03 AM UTC+11, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 10:45:38 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 1 November 2019 13:55:45 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 11:41:37 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 October 2019 19:24:46 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 10:46:13 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On 29 Oct 2019 01:47:40 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote...
John Larkin seems to think ...

snip

and rarely are his other-person opinions realistic. More pathological.

In NT's ever-so-expert opinion. Anybody who thinks that Cursitor Doom's opinions are ever well-founded has to be a pretty pathological case, and NT is more pathological than most - pretty much down to the krw level.

If I followed drs' advice I'd be long dead.

A doctor who got stuck with NT as patient might well give him the kind of advice that would shut him up.

Actually, this is being unfair to the doctor.

People who read up on medical matters for themselves - and this includes medical students and young doctors - frequently convince themselves that they've got something rare and fatal.

NT is definitely that kind of patient. His doctor probably told him not to be silly, so NT went out and found some bogus treatment, and when his symptoms went away, decided that it had cured the disease he thought that he had.

Either I get informed or by God I pay the price.

Having made his own mountain out of some molehill, he prides himself on the time he has wasted surviving something that was almost certainly trivial.

The price of an excessive faith on one's own infallibility can be a lot of unnecessary anxiety and pointless effort.

He sure loves to believe his own bs doesn't he. Not an indicator of intelligence.
 
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 10:16:28 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 2 November 2019 00:51:03 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 10:45:38 AM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Friday, 1 November 2019 13:55:45 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 11:41:37 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 October 2019 19:24:46 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 10:46:13 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On 29 Oct 2019 01:47:40 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote...
John Larkin seems to think ...

Bill, you are becoming a very crotchety old man.

Sad case. Best to ignore him.

It's curious how so many of Bill's comments nowadays are just his
personal slant on what other posters here have said. Nearly all begin with "X seems to believe...." or "X seems to think..." or "X's beliefs are mistakenly based on..." It is just so weird. And hardly ever does he contribute anything electronic-related any more. :-(

Nothing that Cursitor Doom or NT can recognise as electronic.

I recently challenged Cursitor Doom to find the thread where I'd recently posted a link to my web-site

http://sophia-elektronica.com/PMT-transformer.html

and to explain why I'd done it. No response. NT isn't going to do any better.

and rarely are his other-person opinions realistic. More pathological.

In NT's ever-so-expert opinion. Anybody who thinks that Cursitor Doom's opinions are ever well-founded has to be a pretty pathological case, and NT is more pathological than most - pretty much down to the krw level.

If I followed drs' advice I'd be long dead.

A doctor who got stuck with NT as patient might well give him the kind of advice that would shut him up.

Either I get informed or by God I pay the price.

Sadly, the information you get isn't all that good. It hasn't killed you yet, but it does seem to have damaged your reasoning ability.

But as ever Bill wants to paint things his pathological way without getting the necessary facts.

NT isn't great at producing any facts at all. Early on, he would risk posting links to what he thought constituted evidence, which were pretty much always irrelevant nonsense, but he's learned the wrong lesson from that experience and now restricts himself to idiotic pontification, of which this is a good example.

He usually comes back with some pathetic remark.

By which he means that he can't argue with them.

and he did.

Sadly, the pathos is all in NT's response, which is about as pathetically inadequate as they come - few people who post here are quite as pathetically inadequate at constructing any kind of reasoned argument as NT.

He's good on reiterated assertion, but has learned to avoid anything more demanding (and revealing).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 10:18:06 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 2 November 2019 06:47:05 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 11:51:03 AM UTC+11, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 10:45:38 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 1 November 2019 13:55:45 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 11:41:37 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 October 2019 19:24:46 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 10:46:13 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On 29 Oct 2019 01:47:40 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote...
John Larkin seems to think ...

snip

and rarely are his other-person opinions realistic. More pathological.

In NT's ever-so-expert opinion. Anybody who thinks that Cursitor Doom's opinions are ever well-founded has to be a pretty pathological case, and NT is more pathological than most - pretty much down to the krw level.

If I followed drs' advice I'd be long dead.

A doctor who got stuck with NT as patient might well give him the kind of advice that would shut him up.

Actually, this is being unfair to the doctor.

People who read up on medical matters for themselves - and this includes medical students and young doctors - frequently convince themselves that they've got something rare and fatal.

NT is definitely that kind of patient. His doctor probably told him not to be silly, so NT went out and found some bogus treatment, and when his symptoms went away, decided that it had cured the disease he thought that he had.

Either I get informed or by God I pay the price.

Having made his own mountain out of some molehill, he prides himself on the time he has wasted surviving something that was almost certainly trivial.

The price of an excessive faith on one's own infallibility can be a lot of unnecessary anxiety and pointless effort.

He sure loves to believe his own bs doesn't he. Not an indicator of intelligence.

NT should have had enough insight into his own behavior to realise that he was projecting his own special defect here.

https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22A.+W.+Sloman%22&btnG=

does suggest that it's NT who lacks the intelligence here.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 14:01:53 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 10:18:06 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:

He sure loves to believe his own bs doesn't he. Not an indicator of intelligence.

NT should have had enough insight into his own behavior to realise that he was projecting his own special defect here.

https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22A.+W.+Sloman%22&btnG=

does suggest that it's NT who lacks the intelligence here.

not worth the time is it
 
On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:06:46 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

> not worth the time is it

No, it's entirely pointless. But you really should know that by now!
I wonder when and why it all went tits-up for poor old Bill? Could some
undisclosed trauma have precipitated his decline?



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
 
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 18:22:16 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:06:46 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

not worth the time is it

No, it's entirely pointless. But you really should know that by now!
I wonder when and why it all went tits-up for poor old Bill? Could some
undisclosed trauma have precipitated his decline?

Well, it hasn't been recent. Kinda hard to sympathise tbh.


NT
 
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 4:06:53 AM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 14:01:53 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 10:18:06 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:

He sure loves to believe his own bs doesn't he. Not an indicator of intelligence.

NT should have had enough insight into his own behavior to realise that he was projecting his own special defect here.

https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22A.+W.+Sloman%22&btnG=

does suggest that it's NT who lacks the intelligence here.

not worth the time is it

NT isn't going to invest any time in finding out that he's a half-wit.

People with a working brain don't have to spend much time working that out.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 5:22:16 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:06:46 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

not worth the time is it

No, it's entirely pointless. But you really should know that by now!
I wonder when and why it all went tits-up for poor old Bill? Could some
undisclosed trauma have precipitated his decline?

Cursitor Doom and NT do seem to have contemplated their own situations and recognised that they've lost it. They do like to project their own problems on other people.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 6:47:56 AM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 18:22:16 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:06:46 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

not worth the time is it

No, it's entirely pointless. But you really should know that by now!
I wonder when and why it all went tits-up for poor old Bill? Could some
undisclosed trauma have precipitated his decline?

Well, it hasn't been recent. Kinda hard to sympathise tbh.

NT claiming to be honest would have some significance if he ever knew what he was talking about.

He's so far out of touch with reality that his "honest" opinions have exactly the same weight as his wildest fantasies.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 1:22:16 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:06:46 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

not worth the time is it

No, it's entirely pointless. But you really should know that by now!
I wonder when and why it all went tits-up for poor old Bill? Could some
undisclosed trauma have precipitated his decline?

There are so many pots talking about so many kettles in this group.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
>There are so many pots talking about so many kettles in this >group.

Black is black. (I want my baby back)

But really, Black people do seem to have more problems with it. I am not sure how much is diet and how much is heredity, but whatever it it, it is,

Bottom line is cholesterol in your blood belongs combined with other things that you lack. The cartilage in your arms and legs n shit are cholesterol. That cholesterol build you, but now lacks the proper other components.

I can't tell you what to eat, but if you tell me your lineage, health history of your Parents and Grandparents, an write down everything to eat an drink for a couple of weeks I can probably find the problem. Probably. When you deal with people nothing is absolute.

But it would take time to even get it going. Write a short bio of how your Parents died and when, and if opssible what they ate, and then what you ate when young, and after that recent daily.

Know how many people are going to do that ?

Many are dead.
 
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 4:02:04 PM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 1:22:16 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:06:46 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

not worth the time is it

No, it's entirely pointless. But you really should know that by now!
I wonder when and why it all went tits-up for poor old Bill? Could some
undisclosed trauma have precipitated his decline?

There are so many pots talking about so many kettles in this group.

I resent the implication that I am as far down the slippery slope as Cursitor Doom and NT, but if I put more effort into denying this, I'd end up looking more like them.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon John wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus science (sic) is
almost always wrong.

Not true at all. Science means 'knowledge and understanding'. So,
consensus knowledge and understanding, while always limited, is
rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement of
supporting data needs to be restated: find a way to quantify
'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map that
ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible before the Reformation (no published work then
was 'consensus', it all had princes or priests' sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So they stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your axioms and
work from there by logical methods. It is arguably more correct than any
scientific experiment (although still subject to human error). Science
experiments are always subject to measurement error. Mathematics is not.

The algebra package that turned the output of the REDUCE symbolic
algebra package into FORTRAN had a subtle bug which meant that when the
number of continuation cards exceeded 9 things went wrong. This wasn't
spotted for a long time since the error term was very small.

However, when the double pulsar was found and it by chance happened to
be close to Jupiter a systematic unexpected timing deviation from
relativity was observed. This had the experimenters scratching their
heads for a while. Sadly it wasn't new physics it was an obscure bug in
some very old code that had worked flawlessly for decades.
Ridiculous! That eliminates arithmetic, algebra and calculus,
none of which are subject to any findings by experiment.
Unreasonable premise, unbelievable conclusion. No one
can be so simple as to believe that.

Google science wrong

Science is ultimately self correcting since the way that nature behaves
in reality trumps any claim by authority. Astronomy is an observational
science. We can never realistically do experiments on a star but we can
measure a hell of a lot about it by studying it at various wavelengths
and resolutions and infer a great deal from spectroscopy.

Observational sciences are still *sciences* even if we cannot control
the experiments and merely look at what is actually there using ever
more powerful observational techniques. Gravity waves being the latest.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:51:26 PM UTC+11, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qposer$62c$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin
wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon John
wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus science
(sic) is almost always wrong.

Not true at all. Science means 'knowledge and
understanding'. So, consensus knowledge and understanding,
while always limited, is rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by
experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement of
supporting data needs to be restated: find a way to quantify
'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map that
ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible before the Reformation (no published work
then was 'consensus', it all had princes or priests' sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So they
stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your axioms
and work from there by logical methods. It is arguably more
correct than any scientific experiment (although still subject to
human error). Science experiments are always subject to
measurement error. Mathematics is not.

The algebra package that turned the output of the REDUCE symbolic
algebra package into FORTRAN had a subtle bug which meant that
when the number of continuation cards exceeded 9 things went
wrong. This wasn't spotted for a long time since the error term
was very small.

However, when the double pulsar was found and it by chance
happened to be close to Jupiter a systematic unexpected timing
deviation from relativity was observed. This had the experimenters
scratching their heads for a while. Sadly it wasn't new physics it
was an obscure bug in some very old code that had worked
flawlessly for decades.

Ridiculous! That eliminates arithmetic, algebra and calculus,
none of which are subject to any findings by experiment.
Unreasonable premise, unbelievable conclusion. No one
can be so simple as to believe that.

Google science wrong

Science is ultimately self correcting since the way that nature
behaves in reality trumps any claim by authority. Astronomy is an
observational science. We can never realistically do experiments
on a star but we can measure a hell of a lot about it by studying
it at various wavelengths and resolutions and infer a great deal
from spectroscopy.

Observational sciences are still *sciences* even if we cannot
control the experiments and merely look at what is actually there
using ever more powerful observational techniques. Gravity waves
being the latest.



Yes and simple observations of our own local space and solar system
allows us to prove the newtonian stuff. I liked the Hubble capture
and the shuttle experiments with rotating cylinders.

But the Cosmic level stuff... yeah, we can only observe, and bash
atoms together and observe, and about the time we start figuring
things out and get quantum computers going, and think we are getting
a grasp on things, the aliens will return and render all of our top
minds' 'knowledge' moot with a mind meld.

And we will *then* step into the next evolution of man.

It's more likely the that human race will split. We are a social mammal, and the society that we have at the moment can do a lot more than any other living organism that we know of can manage.

Once an organism has mastered a new trick, it diversifies to exploit the new trick in different ways in different environments.

If this creates reproductive isolation you tend to get new species.

Science fiction has us moving into space, which would do it, but this isn't the only way it could happen, and granting how bad science fiction is at prophecy it's unlikely to happen that way at all.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qposer$62c$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin
wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon John
wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus science
(sic) is almost always wrong.

Not true at all. Science means 'knowledge and
understanding'. So, consensus knowledge and understanding,
while always limited, is rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by
experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement of
supporting data needs to be restated: find a way to quantify
'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map that
ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible before the Reformation (no published work
then was 'consensus', it all had princes or priests' sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So they
stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your axioms
and work from there by logical methods. It is arguably more
correct than any scientific experiment (although still subject to
human error). Science experiments are always subject to
measurement error. Mathematics is not.

The algebra package that turned the output of the REDUCE symbolic
algebra package into FORTRAN had a subtle bug which meant that
when the number of continuation cards exceeded 9 things went
wrong. This wasn't spotted for a long time since the error term
was very small.

However, when the double pulsar was found and it by chance
happened to be close to Jupiter a systematic unexpected timing
deviation from relativity was observed. This had the experimenters
scratching their heads for a while. Sadly it wasn't new physics it
was an obscure bug in some very old code that had worked
flawlessly for decades.

Ridiculous! That eliminates arithmetic, algebra and calculus,
none of which are subject to any findings by experiment.
Unreasonable premise, unbelievable conclusion. No one
can be so simple as to believe that.

Google science wrong

Science is ultimately self correcting since the way that nature
behaves in reality trumps any claim by authority. Astronomy is an
observational science. We can never realistically do experiments
on a star but we can measure a hell of a lot about it by studying
it at various wavelengths and resolutions and infer a great deal
from spectroscopy.

Observational sciences are still *sciences* even if we cannot
control the experiments and merely look at what is actually there
using ever more powerful observational techniques. Gravity waves
being the latest.

Yes and simple observations of our own local space and solar system
allows us to prove the newtonian stuff. I liked the Hubble capture
and the shuttle experiments with rotating cylinders.

But the Cosmic level stuff... yeah, we can only observe, and bash
atoms together and observe, and about the time we start figuring
things out and get quantum computers going, and think we are getting
a grasp on things, the aliens will return and render all of our top
minds' 'knowledge' moot with a mind meld.

And we will *then* step into the next evolution of man.
 
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:cacc4134-d88d-4681-bc9f-71c3877c569f@googlegroups.com:

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:51:26 PM UTC+11,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qposer$62c$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin
wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon John
wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus science
(sic) is almost always wrong.

Not true at all. Science means 'knowledge and
understanding'. So, consensus knowledge and
understanding, while always limited, is rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by
experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement
of supporting data needs to be restated: find a way to
quantify 'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map
that ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible before the Reformation (no published
work then was 'consensus', it all had princes or priests'
sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So
they stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your
axioms and work from there by logical methods. It is arguably
more correct than any scientific experiment (although still
subject to human error). Science experiments are always subject
to measurement error. Mathematics is not.

The algebra package that turned the output of the REDUCE
symbolic algebra package into FORTRAN had a subtle bug which
meant that when the number of continuation cards exceeded 9
things went wrong. This wasn't spotted for a long time since
the error term was very small.

However, when the double pulsar was found and it by chance
happened to be close to Jupiter a systematic unexpected timing
deviation from relativity was observed. This had the
experimenters scratching their heads for a while. Sadly it
wasn't new physics it was an obscure bug in some very old code
that had worked flawlessly for decades.

Ridiculous! That eliminates arithmetic, algebra and
calculus, none of which are subject to any findings by
experiment. Unreasonable premise, unbelievable conclusion.
No one can be so simple as to believe that.

Google science wrong

Science is ultimately self correcting since the way that nature
behaves in reality trumps any claim by authority. Astronomy is
an observational science. We can never realistically do
experiments on a star but we can measure a hell of a lot about
it by studying it at various wavelengths and resolutions and
infer a great deal from spectroscopy.

Observational sciences are still *sciences* even if we cannot
control the experiments and merely look at what is actually
there using ever more powerful observational techniques.
Gravity waves being the latest.



Yes and simple observations of our own local space and solar
system
allows us to prove the newtonian stuff. I liked the Hubble
capture and the shuttle experiments with rotating cylinders.

But the Cosmic level stuff... yeah, we can only observe, and
bash
atoms together and observe, and about the time we start figuring
things out and get quantum computers going, and think we are
getting a grasp on things, the aliens will return and render all
of our top minds' 'knowledge' moot with a mind meld.

And we will *then* step into the next evolution of man.

It's more likely the that human race will split. We are a social
mammal, and the society that we have at the moment can do a lot
more than any other living organism that we know of can manage.

Once an organism has mastered a new trick, it diversifies to
exploit the new trick in different ways in different environments.

If this creates reproductive isolation you tend to get new
species.

Science fiction has us moving into space, which would do it, but
this isn't the only way it could happen, and granting how bad
science fiction is at prophecy it's unlikely to happen that way at
all.

I was talking about our knowledge evolving, not "moving into space".

We are more likely to destroy ourselves. It seems humans are
gravitating back to brutality, when we had just come so far.

UFOs have been sited over The Dome Of The Rock.

The Old Testament says that North Korea is gonna get dumped on.

Nostradamus probably had something to say about coming events as
well.

Or we should study crop circles a bit more. :)
 
On 04/11/2019 12:13, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:51:26 PM UTC+11,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qposer$62c$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin
wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon
John wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus
science (sic) is almost always wrong.

Not true at all. Science means 'knowledge and
understanding'. So, consensus knowledge and
understanding, while always limited, is rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by
experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement
of supporting data needs to be restated: find a way to
quantify 'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map
that ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible before the Reformation (no published
work then was 'consensus', it all had princes or priests'
sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So
they stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your axioms
and work from there by logical methods. It is arguably more
correct than any scientific experiment (although still subject
to human error). Science experiments are always subject to
measurement error. Mathematics is not.

The algebra package that turned the output of the REDUCE
symbolic algebra package into FORTRAN had a subtle bug which
meant that when the number of continuation cards exceeded 9
things went wrong. This wasn't spotted for a long time since the
error term was very small.

However, when the double pulsar was found and it by chance
happened to be close to Jupiter a systematic unexpected timing
deviation from relativity was observed. This had the
experimenters scratching their heads for a while. Sadly it wasn't
new physics it was an obscure bug in some very old code that had
worked flawlessly for decades.

Ridiculous! That eliminates arithmetic, algebra and
calculus, none of which are subject to any findings by
experiment. Unreasonable premise, unbelievable conclusion.
No one can be so simple as to believe that.

Google science wrong

Science is ultimately self correcting since the way that nature
behaves in reality trumps any claim by authority. Astronomy is
an observational science. We can never realistically do
experiments on a star but we can measure a hell of a lot about it
by studying it at various wavelengths and resolutions and infer a
great deal from spectroscopy.

Observational sciences are still *sciences* even if we cannot
control the experiments and merely look at what is actually
there using ever more powerful observational techniques. Gravity
waves being the latest.

Yes and simple observations of our own local space and solar
system allows us to prove the newtonian stuff. I liked the Hubble
capture and the shuttle experiments with rotating cylinders.

We can do relativistic experiments in storage rings and using the Sun or
Jupiter as handy test masses too.

But the Cosmic level stuff... yeah, we can only observe, and bash
atoms together and observe, and about the time we start figuring
things out and get quantum computers going, and think we are
getting a grasp on things, the aliens will return and render all of
our top minds' 'knowledge' moot with a mind meld.

Sometimes we get lucky and find something unexpected when a new
instrument comes onstream. Serendipitous discoveries include Nobel prize
winning stuff like pulsars, double pulsar and the microwave background.
And we will *then* step into the next evolution of man.

It's more likely the that human race will split. We are a social
mammal, and the society that we have at the moment can do a lot more
than any other living organism that we know of can manage.

Once an organism has mastered a new trick, it diversifies to exploit
the new trick in different ways in different environments.

It is quite likely that the next big shift will be as humans are
augmented by cyborg like interfaces to something like Google or even to
powered exoskeletons. Both are now possible but with limitations.

> If this creates reproductive isolation you tend to get new species.

Although it seems that homo sapiens and erectus and Denisovans were
inter breeding for quite a while when they occupied the same areas. We
have hybrid vigor from having a mixture of their genes. Species
boundaries are not as cleanly defined as biologists used to think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan#Interbreeding

Science fiction has us moving into space, which would do it, but this
isn't the only way it could happen, and granting how bad science
fiction is at prophecy it's unlikely to happen that way at all.

Society seems to be stratifying again based on wealth and education.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 16:21:13 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 04/11/2019 12:13, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:51:26 PM UTC+11,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qposer$62c$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin
wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon
John wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus
science (sic) is almost always wrong.

Not true at all. Science means 'knowledge and
understanding'. So, consensus knowledge and
understanding, while always limited, is rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by
experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement
of supporting data needs to be restated: find a way to
quantify 'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map
that ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible before the Reformation (no published
work then was 'consensus', it all had princes or priests'
sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So
they stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your axioms
and work from there by logical methods. It is arguably more
correct than any scientific experiment (although still subject
to human error). Science experiments are always subject to
measurement error. Mathematics is not.

The algebra package that turned the output of the REDUCE
symbolic algebra package into FORTRAN had a subtle bug which
meant that when the number of continuation cards exceeded 9
things went wrong. This wasn't spotted for a long time since the
error term was very small.

However, when the double pulsar was found and it by chance
happened to be close to Jupiter a systematic unexpected timing
deviation from relativity was observed. This had the
experimenters scratching their heads for a while. Sadly it wasn't
new physics it was an obscure bug in some very old code that had
worked flawlessly for decades.

Ridiculous! That eliminates arithmetic, algebra and
calculus, none of which are subject to any findings by
experiment. Unreasonable premise, unbelievable conclusion.
No one can be so simple as to believe that.

Google science wrong

Science is ultimately self correcting since the way that nature
behaves in reality trumps any claim by authority. Astronomy is
an observational science. We can never realistically do
experiments on a star but we can measure a hell of a lot about it
by studying it at various wavelengths and resolutions and infer a
great deal from spectroscopy.

Observational sciences are still *sciences* even if we cannot
control the experiments and merely look at what is actually
there using ever more powerful observational techniques. Gravity
waves being the latest.

Yes and simple observations of our own local space and solar
system allows us to prove the newtonian stuff. I liked the Hubble
capture and the shuttle experiments with rotating cylinders.

We can do relativistic experiments in storage rings and using the Sun or
Jupiter as handy test masses too.

But the Cosmic level stuff... yeah, we can only observe, and bash
atoms together and observe, and about the time we start figuring
things out and get quantum computers going, and think we are
getting a grasp on things, the aliens will return and render all of
our top minds' 'knowledge' moot with a mind meld.

Sometimes we get lucky and find something unexpected when a new
instrument comes onstream. Serendipitous discoveries include Nobel prize
winning stuff like pulsars, double pulsar and the microwave background.

And we will *then* step into the next evolution of man.

It's more likely the that human race will split. We are a social
mammal, and the society that we have at the moment can do a lot more
than any other living organism that we know of can manage.

Once an organism has mastered a new trick, it diversifies to exploit
the new trick in different ways in different environments.

It is quite likely that the next big shift will be as humans are
augmented by cyborg like interfaces to something like Google or even to
powered exoskeletons. Both are now possible but with limitations.

If this creates reproductive isolation you tend to get new species.

Although it seems that homo sapiens and erectus and Denisovans were
inter breeding for quite a while when they occupied the same areas. We
have hybrid vigor from having a mixture of their genes. Species
boundaries are not as cleanly defined as biologists used to think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan#Interbreeding

Science fiction has us moving into space, which would do it, but this
isn't the only way it could happen, and granting how bad science
fiction is at prophecy it's unlikely to happen that way at all.

Society seems to be stratifying again based on wealth and education.

I disagree, mostly. Humans are increasingly mobile, so formerly
isolated regions and races are interacting and inter-marrying. Some
day we may not have distinctive races. I think about a third of Native
Americans are "pure-blood" now. Inter-racial dating and marriage used
to be scandalous, but isn't any more, at least around here.

I had an uncle who married a Filipino woman ca 1950, and it was a
major family scandal. Nobody would get upset nowadays.

All sorts of kids go to bars and colleges and yoga classes and Mexican
resorts together now, so class exposure is way up. Stratification is
mostly by choice now, like marrying like. I suspect we'll keep a
normal distribution of most everything, but maybe with a small, long
tail to the right, as improbable extremes manage to connect with other
improbable extremes.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On 4/11/19 8:53 pm, Martin Brown wrote:
On 02/11/2019 18:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:26:43 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 5:01:02 PM UTC-7, Neon John wrote:

The lesson we can draw from this is that consensus science (sic) is
almost always wrong.

Not true at all.   Science means 'knowledge and understanding'.   So,
consensus knowledge and understanding, while always limited, is
rarely wrong.

It's usually wrong, until whacked sufficiently hard by experiment.

Still untrue, and because you clipped it out, my requirement of
supporting data  needs to be restated: find a way to quantify
'wrong' and 'right' and compute a ratio, THEN map that
ratio for a century or two.

No analysis possible  before the Reformation (no published work then
was 'consensus', it all  had princes or priests' sign-off).

But some fields of study aren't subject to experimant. So they stay
wrong.

Mathematics is not subject to experiment. You choose your axioms and
work from there by logical methods. It is arguably more correct than any
scientific experiment (although still subject to human error). Science
experiments are always subject to measurement error. Mathematics is not.

Unfortunately, this ability to discover mathematical truth still says
nothing about the physical world. You can produce the best mathematical
theory, and have no idea whether it applies to or explains anything.

You still need measurements to establish the correlation between theory
and actuality, and confidence in that correlation is thus still limited
by measurement error.

Clifford Heath.
 
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:28:51 PM UTC-8, Clifford Heath wrote:

You still need measurements to establish the correlation between theory
and actuality, and confidence in that correlation is thus still limited
by measurement error.

But, there's a pretty good indication when you get parts-per-billion
correspondence with a measurement and a bit of math, like the "g" calculation

<https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1989/press-release/>

Mostly, with electronic parts, we are satisfied with one percent accuracies.
 

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