Chip with simple program for Toy

[Peter Hucker]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:53:59 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp running off a 30 amp socket circuit.


No, you can't. Those types of circuits are either 15 or 20 amps.

I just used the rating here. Anyway a 20 amp breaker/fuse will not protect a little table lamp.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A priest and a rabbi operated a church and a synagogue across the street from each other.
Since their schedules intertwined, they decided to go in together to buy a car.
After the purchase, they drove it home and parked in on the street between their establishments.
A few minutes later, the rabbi looked out and saw the priest sprinkling water on their new car.
It didn't need a wash, so he ran out and asked the priest what he was doing.
"I'm blessing it," the priest replied.
The rabbi considered this a moment, then said, "Oh," and ran back inside the synagogue.
He reappeared a moment later with a hacksaw, ran to the back of the car and cut off the last two inches of the tailpipe.

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 -0000, Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

ah wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr <Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!) extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel and
appliance).

The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

Next debate - plugs that pull out when you yank the cord, or not?


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

_.-"-._
_.-' `-._
_.-' `-,-"-._
|-._ _.-'" `-._
_.-"-._`-._ _.-' `-,-"-._
_.-' `-._`-._|-._ _.-'" `-._
_.-' `-._| `-._ _.-"-,-' `-._
"-._ _.-| _.-" "`-._ _.-"
`-._ _.-'_.-"-,-' `-._ _.-'
`-._ _.-'_.-' "`-._ _.-|_.-'
|_.-' `-._ _.-' "
"-._ _.-|_.-'
`-._ _.-' "
`-._ _.-'
"

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:59:43 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

Don't the plugs just have in integral holder, and you snap in whatever
fuse you need?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:36:41 +0000, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

On 11/29/05 4:53 PM, in article 438CF813.22813284@earthlink.net, "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the
house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp
running off a 30 amp socket circuit.


No, you can't. Those types of circuits are either 15 or 20 amps.

You can use a 30A fuse if you run #8 wire. The code doesn't care what's
plugged into the circuit.

Don

Try to get that pst an electrical inspector. Yes, there are higher
current circuits, but they use different outlets to prevent you from
plugging a table lamp into a 30 amp or higher circuit. Go to the Hubbell
or leviton website to look at all the different NEMA outlets.

Or even here:
http://www.stayonline.com/reference_nema_straight_blade~uB~Item1056.html

According to this, you even have to have different outlets on a 20A
circuit - the "standard household" outlet (NEMA 5-15) is only listed as
good for 15A, although I'm pretty sure a 15A plug will fit in a 20A socket
(NEMA 5-20 T-slot).

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:58:25 +1300, Terry Given wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.basics.]
On 2005-11-27, David <rickets@knac.com> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:55:16 -0330, Gary <g.h@sympatico.ca> wrote:


Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line is
infinitely long and unterminated.


if it was infinitely long wouldn't the
the termionation would make no difference for all proctical purposes.

wouldn't the resistance of the conductors throw that out ?


its hard to terminate infinitely long conductors, as finding the end can
be rather tricky

Nothing tricky about it - just infinitely tedious. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:41:17 -0000, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:36:41 +0000, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

On 11/29/05 4:53 PM, in article 438CF813.22813284@earthlink.net, "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the
house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp
running off a 30 amp socket circuit.


No, you can't. Those types of circuits are either 15 or 20 amps.

You can use a 30A fuse if you run #8 wire. The code doesn't care what's
plugged into the circuit.

Don

Try to get that pst an electrical inspector. Yes, there are higher
current circuits, but they use different outlets to prevent you from
plugging a table lamp into a 30 amp or higher circuit. Go to the Hubbell
or leviton website to look at all the different NEMA outlets.

Or even here:
http://www.stayonline.com/reference_nema_straight_blade~uB~Item1056.html

According to this, you even have to have different outlets on a 20A
circuit - the "standard household" outlet (NEMA 5-15) is only listed as
good for 15A, although I'm pretty sure a 15A plug will fit in a 20A socket
(NEMA 5-20 T-slot).

More complications....

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

An avid duck hunter was in the market for a new bird dog. His search ended when he found a dog that could actually walk on water to retrieve a duck. Shocked by his find, he was sure none of his friends would ever believe him.
He decided to try to break the news to a friend of his, a pessimist by nature, and invited him to hunt with him and his new dog.
As they waited by the shore, a flock of ducks flew by. They fired, and a duck fell. The dog responded and jumped into the water. The dog, however, did not sink but instead walked across the water to retrieve the bird, never getting more than his paws wet.
The friend saw everything but did not say a single word.
On the drive home the hunter asked his friend, "Did you notice anything unusual about my new dog?"
"I sure did," responded his friend. "He can't swim."

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:07:44 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:31:11 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2005-11-27, Fred Abse <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:14:25 -0330, Gary wrote:
David wrote:
snip

Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line is
infinitely long and unterminated.

Bullshit.

If you mean by "DC resistance", the impedance you would see at the input
of an infinitely long line, it's not bullshit, it's perfectly true, even
if the line is made of zero-resistance conductors. You'll just see the
line's characteristic impedance.

what about lines made of copper and plastic?

Most are

ISTM that a few hundered kilometers if RG59 is going to measure more
than 75 ohms even with far end is shorted.

There's no way an infinite length will have a lower resistance.

Run the LTSpice simulation below, three cases of 1000 miles of RG59-U,
terminated. shorted, and open at 1 MHz. You'll find all 3 cases look like
75 ohms.

I'm guessing, for the first, say, 2 or so microseconds?

;-)
Rich

 

[Mr Pounder]

"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s00siqlqwabk2w@blue.mshome.net...

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:41:14 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"ah" <splifingate@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:T8Nif.686$TI4.453@trnddc02...
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!)
extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over
there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends
(panel
and
appliance).
--
ah

Blast, my question was too late!

But I just told you that. Or did you say this before I replied to that?

I said it before & I'll say it again, "Blast, my question was too late".
I think I said it before I read the reply by ah & yourself.
I have just read your reply which was posted before I read this.

Mr Pounder

 

[Fermi]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:35:49 GMT, Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:59:43 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

Don't the plugs just have in integral holder, and you snap in whatever
fuse you need?

If it's a moulded plug. All appliances sold since 1994 have had to have a

moulded plug fitted as standard. This was to prevent electric shock and
fires caused by people who managed to wire a standard plug incorrectly.
Rewirable plugs are still available:
http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/PDF/technical/PLUGS_&_ADAPTORS_prod.pdf

Typical moulded plug:
http://chinapowercord.com/british_UK_standards_bsi_approved_power_cord_y006a.html

Available fuses are: 1A, 2A, 3A, 5A, 7A, 10A & 13A
http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2042.PDF

3, 5 & 13 are most common. Even low wattage appliances, such as lamps, are
supplied with 3A flex and 3A fused plug.


--
F.

Drop '.invalid' and remove 888 to reply by email

 

[Cliff]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:07:42 +0000, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:41:41 -0500, Cliff wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:33:41 +0000, Fred Abse
excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:

The value of v *in the conductor* is of little importance in determining
propagation velocity.

IOW The EM field in the dielectric can be several light-years away
(down the coax) from the electrons, protrons, anti-protons
or positrons in the coaxial conductor which it is related to?
No induced currents or voltages?

Yes, electrons don't travel very fast at all. Nowhere near c.

But if I stick a few in one end of a long wire a few others
want to pop out the other end quite quickly.
--
Cliff

 

[NunYa Bidness]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:55:16 -0000, Jasen Betts
<jasen@free.net.nospam.nz> Gave us:

On 2005-11-27, David <rickets@knac.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:55:16 -0330, Gary <g.h@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line is
infinitely long and unterminated.

if it was infinitely long wouldn't the
the termionation would make no difference for all proctical purposes.

Freudian shlip? Wear gloves!

 

[NunYa Bidness]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:07:42 +0000, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> Gave us:

Yes, electrons don't travel very fast at all. Nowhere near c.

See the post "How fast are these electrons moving" in a.b.s.e.

Then come back and give an answer... :-]

 

[Pooh Bear]

Peter Hucker wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 -0000, Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



ah wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr <Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!) extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel and
appliance).

The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

Next debate - plugs that pull out when you yank the cord, or not?

That would make sense.

Did you know that in the UK more ppl are injured by treading on upturned mains plugs than get
electrocuted.

Graham

 

[Pooh Bear]

John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

3, 5, 10 and 13 Amp fuses are the commonly available types.

Graham

 

[Pooh Bear]

Fermi wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:35:49 GMT, Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:59:43 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

Don't the plugs just have in integral holder, and you snap in whatever
fuse you need?

If it's a moulded plug. All appliances sold since 1994 have had to have a
moulded plug fitted as standard. This was to prevent electric shock and
fires caused by people who managed to wire a standard plug incorrectly.
Rewirable plugs are still available:
http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/PDF/technical/PLUGS_&_ADAPTORS_prod.pdf

Typical moulded plug:
http://chinapowercord.com/british_UK_standards_bsi_approved_power_cord_y006a.html

Available fuses are: 1A, 2A, 3A, 5A, 7A, 10A & 13A
http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2042.PDF

3, 5 & 13 are most common. Even low wattage appliances, such as lamps, are
supplied with 3A flex and 3A fused plug.

This is because the fuse only needs to protect the cord from fire risk.

The smallest cords used carry 3 A safely.

Graham

 

[Pooh Bear]

Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:59:43 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

Don't the plugs just have in integral holder, and you snap in whatever
fuse you need?

That is indeed how it works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS1363 tells all

Graham

 

[Terry Given]

NunYa Bidness wrote:

On 27 Nov 2005 18:27:46 -0800, "Kevin White"
kevinjwhite@comcast.net
Gave us:


Winfield Hill wrote:

Since the electrons travel on the surface and multi-strand wire
has more surface area it should be better <G

Only if the strands are insulated from one another.


--
Thanks,
- Win

And also woven as in Litz wire. Otherwise the magnetic field will
force the current to the outside of the bundle.



It comes down to individual strands. If they are separated from
each other electrically, the configuration of "the bundle" matters
not. The skin effect is exhibited in each strand, not in the bundle
as a group.

thats not correct. case in point, it is quite feasible to analyze a

conductor as comprising an n-tuple of (very thin) strands, completely
ignoring strand-to-strand conduction (if the strands are thin enough).
I
once hacked up a Mathcad worksheet that did exactly that, and it
agreed
well with messrs Vandelac & Ziogas. slow though

if your argument were correct, multiple parallel strands of magnet
wire
in a xfmr would behave just like litz, and it doesnt.

A friend also had a problem a few years back with a litz cable, about
1"
OD, with many thousands of strands. the strands were woven into
smaller
bundles, IIRC about 5mm OD, and these were then woven into the larger
cable. A screw-up by the manufacturer meant the centre two bundles
were
not woven at all, but ran down the center of the cable. When they
started pumping a few hundred kW into the cable, losses were extremely

high. Close inspection of a cable segment showed why, and severing the

central bundles solved the problem.

Conductors that are in intimate electrical contact with each other
along their length operate as a single strand and THAT bundle would
"push" electron flow toward the outside of the bundle as f
increases.

the bundle doesnt do the pushing, its the H field.

Cheers
Terry

 

[NunYa Bidness]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 02:51:08 -0800, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com>
Gave us:

"NunYa Bidness" <nunyabidness@nunyabidness.org> wrote in message
news:ujkto1hn03skkfp3au3kr6jd9gik4kijl7@4ax.com...

Actually, the reptiles came first...

This just proves that folks can wear blinders in any setting.

What part of "at some point during the evolution of a chicken..." do
you not understand?

Man, you need to let your undies out a little.

Ever hear of this thing called "humor"?

Besides, there had to be lizards before there could be a chicken to
evolve...

Oh boy. There had to be sharks before we could evolve, if you want

to nit pick about it.

 

[Phillip Kyle]

Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> verbally sodomised in
news:438EDCF3.761BE2B8@hotmail.com:

Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:59:43 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current
rating than the fuse in the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

Don't the plugs just have in integral holder, and you snap in whatever
fuse you need?

That is indeed how it works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS1363 tells all

Graham

Slaphead

--
Phil Kyle™

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

"The truly racist person is one Helene Rudlin, who admits it."
- Neil Barker <MPG.1c47999866a4baf798976c@127.0.0.1>

"I wonder - is there perhaps some form of cosmetic surgery we can pay for,
so that Helene can actually become a coon ?"
- Neil Barker <MPG.1c479b87e7a43ce989770@127.0.0.1>

 

[Phillip Kyle]

Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> verbally sodomised in
news:438EDC15.17654C81@hotmail.com:

John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current
rating than the fuse in the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

3, 5, 10 and 13 Amp fuses are the commonly available types.

Graham

LIES!

--
Phil Kyle™

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

"The truly racist person is one Helene Rudlin, who admits it."
- Neil Barker <MPG.1c47999866a4baf798976c@127.0.0.1>

"I wonder - is there perhaps some form of cosmetic surgery we can pay for,
so that Helene can actually become a coon ?"
- Neil Barker <MPG.1c479b87e7a43ce989770@127.0.0.1>