Chip with simple program for Toy

[Peter Hucker]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:20:03 -0000, ah <splifingate@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr <Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:59:37 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0wvepw0wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:46:12 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:

Off for a nosy.
I wish that I the time that you have.

I entered the group to ask a question about LED brightness, and
accidentally started a nuclear war.

"Accidentally"?

I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!) extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel and
appliance).

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp running off a 30 amp socket circuit.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

One day a guy goes to his golf club on his own. Looking for a game, on the firsttee he sees a lady on her own and asks her if could join her for a round.
She agrees and suggests that they play matchplay for Ł5 to this he accepts thechallenge.
She beats him 6 and 5 and takes the money. Whilst having a drink In the clubhouseshe says do you fancy a blowjob in the car park. The man was a bit bewildered but quickly agrees and out they go.
When they finished she said to him "same time next week" he hastenly said "yes can't wait."
Next week comes and they play for a fiver again - she beats him 5 and 4 and again offers a blowjob in the car park, the man says "please - i would love one". Off they go to the car park.
When finished she said to him "I have a confession" he enquires further "what is it" she replies "i must tell you i am a man dressed as a woman"
He retorts "Bastard - you played off the red tees!"

 

[Mr Pounder]

"ah" <splifingate@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:T8Nif.686$TI4.453@trnddc02...

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:59:37 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0wvepw0wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:46:12 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:

Off for a nosy.
I wish that I the time that you have.

I entered the group to ask a question about LED brightness, and
accidentally started a nuclear war.

"Accidentally"?

I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!)
extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over
there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel
and
appliance).
--
ah

Blast, my question was too late!

Mr Pounder

 

[ScreamingwitchŠŽ˛°°ž]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:32:31 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> :
cacked this fuckin treat out!

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:20:03 -0000, ah <splifingate@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr <Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:59:37 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0wvepw0wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:46:12 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:

Off for a nosy.
I wish that I the time that you have.

I entered the group to ask a question about LED brightness, and
accidentally started a nuclear war.

"Accidentally"?

I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!) extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel and
appliance).

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp running off a 30 amp socket circuit.

yur a real boring fucker aintcha?...boring fucka!
-

SCREAMINGWITCH!
colonel nathen r jessop commanding officer marine
ground forces guantanamo bay cuba...are we clear?


"Baby youre my light" Richard Hawley- Some Sheffield d00d anyone wybourn, manor, pitsmoor!!



In <11>Steve Dufour
wrote:

That's becauses everyone knows that witchcraft is not real....

...and that's why witchcraft is not for everyone.
Nevermore (There is no spoon){alt.religion.wicca}
applaud!!!

test your shite posts -----> go to alt.fucking.test

SHEFFIELD FORUM UNMODERATED
http://www.uktalksheffield.co.uk

MI5 VICTIMS EXCELLENT WEBSITE...
GO HERE
http://www.mi5.com/evidence/#britspy


Please reassure me that people don't actually take advice from the barack
room lawyers on this newsgroup - some of the advice and answers I have seen
here lately are downright dangerous....If you need legal advice then see a
solicitor or in the first case Citizens Advice..people on here just guess
90% of the time and come out with some absolute rubbish.{Gaz a twat who posts in uk dot legal}

When you post peoples personal info, It's show that you have nothing
left and have been spanked real good. To bad you fell for that phony #
and addy.=(PMD.alt.talk.bollocks PI revealer)

This is what happened. I was riding home on my mule holding my rooster
and hen. My mule stopped on me. Now my mule won't move until I scratch
him behind the ears. Well the pastor's wife was walking by. I only
said "Pardon me Mrs. Hillbunker but would you hold my cock and pullet
while I scratch my ass", and the next thing I know is that the police have
me on the ground, handcuffed, and beating me with billy clubs.

(Tavish-some twat fucker on usenet)

"You have a woman's hand, milord! I'll wager these dainty
pinkies never weighed anchor in a storm."
"Your skin milord. I'll wager it ne'er felt the lash
of a cat ['o' nine tails], been rubbed with salt, and
then flayed off by a pirate chief to make fine
stockings for his best cabin boy."
"Ha. -Aah! You have a woman's purse! I'll wager that
purse has never been used
as a rowing-boat. I'll wager it's never had sixteen
shipwrecked mariners tossing in it."
"Oh! You have a woman's mouth, milord! I'll wager that
mouth never had to chew through the side of a
ship to escape the dreadful spindly killer fish. "
(- Mad Captain Rum-on blackadder)


PROMOTE YOOSNET.....X-POST!

Look into my eyes and it's easy to see
One and one make two, two and one make three,
It was destiny.
Once every hundred-thousand years or so,
When the sun doth shine and the moon doth glow
And the grass doth grow...
Needless to say, the beast was stunned.
Whip-crack went his schwumpy tail,
And the beast was done.
He asked us: "(snort) Be you angels?"
And we said, "Nay. We are but men."
Rock!
Tenasious -d)

Breaker, breaker, lookout, watch your back
Be afraid there's a Frisbee-like cat who's a mighty
sharp blade.
So the feared and revered reputation was made of..... Sailcat(cow and chicken)


"You're a very empty person.
If I were of a superstitious bent,
I would seriously pray for you.
Being of a more rational mien,
I realise you are simply irredeemable.
Whoever turned you into the person you are
has a lot to answer for, one way
or another."---(JAF:-FAT netKKKoppin bastard from uk.misc

i change my sig everree now and then.its no big deal...
like an insect that needs attention with a can of aerosol and a lighter,,
they are both short lived (Screamingwitch -her highness-free.uk.talk.sheffield

"No one takes any notice of trolls posting through alt.net.news or whatever
anonymous server you idiots use." -- Mike Clayton cunt and netKKKop from uk.local yorkshire

mhm35x29
OFM#20


Frater V.V.L
Hierophant
Temple of Anubis No.2
Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega.


def leppard....that is all...goodbye

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:41:14 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr <Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:

"ah" <splifingate@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:T8Nif.686$TI4.453@trnddc02...
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!)
extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over
there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel
and
appliance).
--
ah

Blast, my question was too late!

But I just told you that. Or did you say this before I replied to that?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

The modest young lass had just purchased some lingerie and asked if she might have the sentence "If you can read this, you're too damned close" embroidered on her panties and bra.
"Yes madam," said the clerk. "I'm quite certain that could be done. Would you prefer block or script letters ?"
"Braille," she replied.

 

Jasen Betts wrote:

What matters is the speed of light in the dielectric *between* the
conductors. That's where the traveling electromagnetic wave is.

So if all we have is a bare wire no current can flow?

noot sure what you mean:

1 > air is a dielectric (ie generally non-conductive)

2 > a solitary bare wire is an antenna, not a transmission line



Bye.
Jasen
++++++++++++++++++++++

Have you ever heard of a G-line?

<http://www.broadcast.net/pipermail/radio-tech/2004-February/049867.html>

Or do a net search for G-line antenna way too many hits to list.

They really work. The loss is less then that of comparable ladder line
and way
less then 300 ohm ribbon or coax. Even though I have installed several,
I still
don't believe in them.

Terry

 

[Rich Grise]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:49:38 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

What matters is the speed of light in the dielectric *between* the
conductors. That's where the traveling electromagnetic wave is.

So if all we have is a bare wire no current can flow?

noot sure what you mean:

1 > air is a dielectric (ie generally non-conductive)

2 > a solitary bare wire is an antenna, not a transmission line

If you have a feedhorn that has an impedance of 377 ohms at the open
end, it's called the "launcher", and your wire is a "G-line".

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Peter Hucker wrote:

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp running off a 30 amp socket circuit.

No, you can't. Those types of circuits are either 15 or 20 amps.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Don Bowey]

On 11/29/05 4:53 PM, in article 438CF813.22813284@earthlink.net, "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the
house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp
running off a 30 amp socket circuit.


No, you can't. Those types of circuits are either 15 or 20 amps.

You can use a 30A fuse if you run #8 wire. The code doesn't care what's
plugged into the circuit.

Don

 

[Pooh Bear]

ah wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:34 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr <Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0w904e8wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:59:37 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.s0wvepw0wabk2w@blue.mshome.net...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:46:12 -0000, Mr Pounder <Mr
Pounder@rationalthought.com>> wrote:

Off for a nosy.
I wish that I the time that you have.

I entered the group to ask a question about LED brightness, and
accidentally started a nuclear war.

"Accidentally"?

I mentioned that someone was being unsafe using an unfused (!) extension
cord, at which point an American said they are all like that over there,
which I said was insane, etc.

Somehow I think the American must be wrong.
Ok, they are on 110 volts I believe, but even so!

It's true. There are no fuses in plugs over there.

Yup. Totally unnecessary . . . there's already a fuse on both ends (panel and
appliance).

The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

Graham

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Don Bowey wrote:

On 11/29/05 4:53 PM, in article 438CF813.22813284@earthlink.net, "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

A fuse IN the appliance? By panel I assume you mean the main fusebox of the
house - if so, that is not a protection. You could have a 40 watt tablelamp
running off a 30 amp socket circuit.


No, you can't. Those types of circuits are either 15 or 20 amps.

You can use a 30A fuse if you run #8 wire. The code doesn't care what's
plugged into the circuit.

Don

Try to get that pst an electrical inspector. Yes, there are higher
current circuits, but they use different outlets to prevent you from
plugging a table lamp into a 30 amp or higher circuit. Go to the Hubbell
or leviton website to look at all the different NEMA outlets.


--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Terry Given]

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2005-11-27, David <rickets@knac.com> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:55:16 -0330, Gary <g.h@sympatico.ca> wrote:


Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line is
infinitely long and unterminated.


if it was infinitely long wouldn't the
the termionation would make no difference for all proctical purposes.

wouldn't the resistance of the conductors throw that out ?

its hard to terminate infinitely long conductors, as finding the end can
be rather tricky

Cheers
Terry

 

[Terry Given]

Fred Abse wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:24:50 +0000, David wrote:


On 27 Nov 2005 17:29:03 -0800, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:


Since the electrons travel on the surface and multi-strand wire
has more surface area it should be better <G

Only if the strands are insulated from one another.

More twaddle. The skin effect doesn't care.


I suggest you read a standard textbook, such as Horowitz & Hill's "The Art
Of Electronics"


FX: Removes tongue from cheek

I'd go one step further, and suggest he *understands* said textbook.
Mind you, I dont have a copy of AoE (I did read the 2nd ed. a couple of
times), so I dont recall what, if any, treatment it gives skin- and
proximity effect.

Cheers
Terry

 

Jasen Betts wrote:

noot sure what you mean:

1 > air is a dielectric (ie generally non-conductive)

2 > a solitary bare wire is an antenna, not a transmission line



Bye.
Jasen
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ever heard of a G-line? ,AKA " Goubau Line".

See: <http://www.finitesite.com/wetnoodle/We0004.htm>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"G-string or G-line: No this not something worn by an exotic dancer.
This is a form of rf transmission line. It was developed by Dr. Goubel.
Goubel was in the armed services when he came up with this. A G-line is
a true single wire transmission line system. For all practical
purposes, it is the inverse of a wave guide. With the wave guide the
signal travels through a pipe. With the G-line the signal the signal
travels around the outside of a single wire. Goubel went with the
concept that after a certain point the impedance of rf reaches a
maximum in free space. He devised a system for conversion of the
impedance from a coaxial cable to that of the the impedance of that
around a wire. Much like wave guide, the G-line has upper and lower
frequency limits. The major benefit of a G-line system is its
attenuation over a long run is much lower than other transmission line
system. Losses of 1db per mile at 200 MHz was not unheard of this
system. Is it in use anymore? I don't know. In the mid to late 1950's
it was common place. In the mid 1950's the FCC established the UHF tv
band. UHF stations started spring up all over. Somewhere around the
same time frame the FCC also allowed some VHF stations to be translated
into the UHF band. No tv was equipped with a UHF tuner initially. Many
companies made set top converter units. Nearly all of the early units
were hot carrier diode converters. They worked fine within 15 or 20
miles of a commercial UHF station. Where they fell short was on UHF
translators. Some of the earliest converters had a noise figure well in
excess of 12db, some were as much as 18 or 20db."
--------------------------------------------------------


There are many resfferences just do a net search for "g-line" antenna

The damn things really work]
Have lower loss then all but the best ladder line, way less loss
then good 300 Ohm. Of cousre they do leak some RF
whcih may be usefull.

Only for VHF and above.

And inspite of installing several g-line systems, I still don't
believe i them

Terry

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:12:35 +0000, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

The fuse in a UK plug allows the safe use of cables with less current rating than the fuse in
the 'panel' ! No other way is truly safe.

---
Are they avaialable with different ratings?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Fred Abse]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:58:25 +1300, Terry Given wrote:

its hard to terminate infinitely long conductors, as finding the end can
be rather tricky

LOL!

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:47:09 +0000, David wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:33:41 +0000, Fred Abse
excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:24:50 +0000, David wrote:

On 27 Nov 2005 17:29:03 -0800, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Since the electrons travel on the surface and multi-strand wire
has more surface area it should be better <G

Only if the strands are insulated from one another.

More twaddle. The skin effect doesn't care.

I suggest you read a standard textbook, such as Horowitz & Hill's "The Art
Of Electronics"


FX: Removes tongue from cheek
Can't I just take your word for it? Books are so yesterday.

You don't need to get past the title page to see my point.

<Hint - Horowitz and *Hill*>

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:31:11 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2005-11-27, Fred Abse <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:14:25 -0330, Gary wrote:

David wrote:

snip

Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line is
infinitely long and unterminated.


Bullshit.

If you mean by "DC resistance", the impedance you would see at the input
of an infinitely long line, it's not bullshit, it's perfectly true, even
if the line is made of zero-resistance conductors. You'll just see the
line's characteristic impedance.

what about lines made of copper and plastic?

Most are

ISTM that a few hundered kilometers if RG59 is going to measure more
than 75 ohms even with far end is shorted.

There's no way an infinite length will have a lower resistance.

Run the LTSpice simulation below, three cases of 1000 miles of RG59-U,
terminated. shorted, and open at 1 MHz. You'll find all 3 cases look like
75 ohms. Constants are per Belden data.

LTSpice is free, if you didn't already know that, and runs under WINE,
(well at least here it does.)

RG59-U.asc

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -128 144 -128 32
WIRE -128 160 -128 144
WIRE -128 320 -128 240
WIRE 48 320 -128 320
WIRE 48 320 48 64
WIRE 80 320 48 320
WIRE 80 320 80 176
WIRE 112 32 -128 32
WIRE 112 64 48 64
WIRE 112 144 -128 144
WIRE 112 176 80 176
WIRE 128 320 80 320
WIRE 128 352 128 320
WIRE 240 176 208 176
WIRE 240 320 128 320
WIRE 240 320 240 176
WIRE 288 64 208 64
WIRE 288 320 240 320
WIRE 288 320 288 64
WIRE 384 32 208 32
WIRE 384 144 208 144
WIRE 384 320 288 320
WIRE 384 320 384 224
FLAG 128 352 0
SYMBOL ltline 160 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName O1
SYMATTR Value RG59U
SYMBOL voltage -128 144 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 1 1e6)
SYMBOL res 368 240 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 0
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 75
SYMBOL ltline 160 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName O2
SYMATTR Value RG59U
TEXT -152 456 Left 0 !.model RG59U LTRA(len=5.28e6 R=51.6e-3 L=0.115u C=20.5p)
TEXT -162 506 Left 0 !.tran 0 1m 0 1u
TEXT 496 456 Left 0 ;(Belden 8263)

RG59U.plt

[Transient Analysis]
{
Npanes: 3
Active Pane: 2
{
traces: 1 {524290,0,"v(n001)/Ia(O1)"}
X: ('u',0,0,8e-005,0.0008)
Y[0]: (' ',0,0,10,100)
Y[1]: ('_',0,1e+308,0,-1e+308)
Units: "Ohm" (' ',0,0,0,0,10,100)
Log: 0 0 0
GridStyle: 1
},
{
traces: 1 {524291,0,"v(n001)/Ia(O2)"}
X: ('u',0,0,8e-005,0.0008)
Y[0]: (' ',0,0,10,100)
Y[1]: ('_',0,1e+308,0,-1e+308)
Units: "Ohm" (' ',0,0,0,0,10,100)
Log: 0 0 0
GridStyle: 1
},
{
traces: 1 {524292,0,"v(n001)/Ia(O3)"}
X: ('u',0,0,8e-005,0.0008)
Y[0]: (' ',0,0,10,100)
Y[1]: ('_',0,1e+308,0,-1e+308)
Units: "Ohm" (' ',0,0,0,0,10,100)
Log: 0 0 0
GridStyle: 1
}
}




--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 00:01:55 +1300, Terry Given wrote:

I'd go one step further, and suggest he *understands* said textbook.
Mind you, I dont have a copy of AoE (I did read the 2nd ed. a couple of
times), so I dont recall what, if any, treatment it gives skin- and
proximity effect.

It's really the *title* page he should read first

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:55:16 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2005-11-27, David <rickets@knac.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:55:16 -0330, Gary <g.h@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line is
infinitely long and unterminated.

if it was infinitely long wouldn't the
the termionation would make no difference for all proctical purposes.

True

wouldn't the resistance of the conductors throw that out ?

No

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:31:11 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2005-11-27, Fred Abse <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it
wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:14:25 -0330, Gary wrote:

David wrote:

snip

Characteristic impedance and DC resistance are the same if the line
is
infinitely long and unterminated.


Bullshit.

If you mean by "DC resistance", the impedance you would see at the
input
of an infinitely long line, it's not bullshit, it's perfectly true,
even
if the line is made of zero-resistance conductors. You'll just see
the
line's characteristic impedance.

what about lines made of copper and plastic?

Most are

ISTM that a few hundered kilometers if RG59 is going to measure more
than 75 ohms even with far end is shorted.

There's no way an infinite length will have a lower resistance.

Run the LTSpice simulation below, three cases of 1000 miles of RG59-U,

terminated. shorted, and open at 1 MHz. You'll find all 3 cases look
like
75 ohms. Constants are per Belden data.

LTSpice is free, if you didn't already know that, and runs under WINE,
(well at least here it does.)

RG59-U.asc

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -128 144 -128 32
WIRE -128 160 -128 144
WIRE -128 320 -128 240
WIRE 48 320 -128 320
WIRE 48 320 48 64
WIRE 80 320 48 320
WIRE 80 320 80 176
WIRE 112 32 -128 32
WIRE 112 64 48 64
WIRE 112 144 -128 144
WIRE 112 176 80 176
WIRE 128 320 80 320
WIRE 128 352 128 320
WIRE 240 176 208 176
WIRE 240 320 128 320
WIRE 240 320 240 176
WIRE 288 64 208 64
WIRE 288 320 240 320
WIRE 288 320 288 64
WIRE 384 32 208 32
WIRE 384 144 208 144
WIRE 384 320 288 320
WIRE 384 320 384 224
FLAG 128 352 0
SYMBOL ltline 160 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName O1
SYMATTR Value RG59U
SYMBOL voltage -128 144 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 1 1e6)
SYMBOL res 368 240 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 0
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 75
SYMBOL ltline 160 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName O2
SYMATTR Value RG59U
TEXT -152 456 Left 0 !.model RG59U LTRA(len=5.28e6 R=51.6e-3 L=0.115u
C=20.5p)
TEXT -162 506 Left 0 !.tran 0 1m 0 1u
TEXT 496 456 Left 0 ;(Belden 8263)

RG59U.plt

[Transient Analysis]
{
Npanes: 3
Active Pane: 2
{
traces: 1 {524290,0,"v(n001)/Ia(O1)"}
X: ('u',0,0,8e-005,0.0008)
Y[0]: (' ',0,0,10,100)
Y[1]: ('_',0,1e+308,0,-1e+308)
Units: "Ohm" (' ',0,0,0,0,10,100)
Log: 0 0 0
GridStyle: 1
},
{
traces: 1 {524291,0,"v(n001)/Ia(O2)"}
X: ('u',0,0,8e-005,0.0008)
Y[0]: (' ',0,0,10,100)
Y[1]: ('_',0,1e+308,0,-1e+308)
Units: "Ohm" (' ',0,0,0,0,10,100)
Log: 0 0 0
GridStyle: 1
},
{
traces: 1 {524292,0,"v(n001)/Ia(O3)"}
X: ('u',0,0,8e-005,0.0008)
Y[0]: (' ',0,0,10,100)
Y[1]: ('_',0,1e+308,0,-1e+308)
Units: "Ohm" (' ',0,0,0,0,10,100)
Log: 0 0 0
GridStyle: 1
}
}




--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)