Chip with simple program for Toy

[Yoda]

No offense, but if $3 is too much for you to pay for a programmer, you
should probably find another hobby.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert" <geronnimo@vp.pl>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:58 AM
Subject: ISP AVR programmer - eBay

Hello,
Can I buy it for 3$ or maybe I can find cheaper ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50915&item=7519278787

&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
"Robert" <geronnimo@vp.pl> wrote in message
news:30a944c0.0505312258.75f565a8@posting.google.com...

Hello,
Can I buy it for 3$ or maybe I can find cheaper ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50915&item=7519278787

&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:36:55 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

But if I was tackling your task from cold, I'd probably start by
playing with a couple of pseudo-random generators made from shift
registers.

---
Seems like you only need one. I'm working up a solution with an 8 bit
PRSG feeding the broadside load of an 8 bit down-counter. When the
counter times out it toggles a dflop wired as a divide-by-two (which
turns the relay on and off), advances the PRSG by one state, and
drives a 5 second one-shot which loads the counter with the new value
from the PRSG and holds the counter off for 5 seconds.

In order to get the two timeouts, I'm using a 555 as an astable with
the frequency switched from about 17Hz for the 20s timeout to about
26Hz for the 15s timeout. The dflop will switch the frequency by
changing timing caps, since that's easier because they're ground
referred.

Those numbers come from 256 counts in 15 seconds when the PRSG loads
all ones into the counter for the 20 second timeout and 256 counts in
10 seconds when the PRSG loads all ones into the couner for the 15
second timeout.

I'll post the schematic to abse when I'm done. Hopefully, later on
today.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Terry Pinnell]

John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:36:55 +0100, Terry Pinnell
terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:


But if I was tackling your task from cold, I'd probably start by
playing with a couple of pseudo-random generators made from shift
registers.

---
Seems like you only need one. I'm working up a solution with an 8 bit
PRSG feeding the broadside load of an 8 bit down-counter. When the
counter times out it toggles a dflop wired as a divide-by-two (which
turns the relay on and off), advances the PRSG by one state, and
drives a 5 second one-shot which loads the counter with the new value
from the PRSG and holds the counter off for 5 seconds.

In order to get the two timeouts, I'm using a 555 as an astable with
the frequency switched from about 17Hz for the 20s timeout to about
26Hz for the 15s timeout. The dflop will switch the frequency by
changing timing caps, since that's easier because they're ground
referred.

Those numbers come from 256 counts in 15 seconds when the PRSG loads
all ones into the counter for the 20 second timeout and 256 counts in
10 seconds when the PRSG loads all ones into the couner for the 15
second timeout.

I'll post the schematic to abse when I'm done. Hopefully, later on
today.

Neat! Look forward to seeing it.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Don Klipstein]

In article <1117629163.926926.245130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
jpopelish@rica.net wrote:

John Fields wrote:

I get the following data:

R Eout Iout
M kV pk mA RMS
-----+-------+--------
0.00 0.000 17.3
0.05 0.662 17.3
0.09 1.647 17.1
0.13 2.586 16.8
0.17 3.456 16.3
0.21 4.270 15.9
0.25 5.02 15.5
0.29 5.744 15.1
0.33 6.37 14.7
0.37 6.971 14.3
0.41 7.511 13.8

2.0 10.0 6.6
4.0 10.8 5.5
5.0 11.0 5.3
10.0 11.37 5.2
20.0 11.55 5.1

INF 15.0 0.0

Which shows there's no voltage regulation at all, but only a 3.5mA
change in current for a 7500V change in voltage across the load from
410kohms to a dead short.

The reason the short-circuit current is 17.3 mA instead of 30 is
because I loaded the entire secondary, and it's wired so you can only
get 15mA or so that way. If you take current from either end of the
secondary to the center tap you can get 15mA out of each half of the
secondary for a total of about 30mA.

Facts are so much better than assumptions. Thanks for going to this
trouble for all of us. I dug a bit deeper, and my assumptions fell
through. I was thinking of the effect of the resonant circuit in a
ferroresonant transformer, and apparently, neon sign transformers have
only leakage inductance (more like the character of a microwave oven
transformer or welder), which would agree well with your measurements.
But I wonder how they get it to act as nonlinear as it does. It seems
strange that the short circuit current is only about 1.25 times as high
as the current that pulls the output voltage down by half. That surely
looks like an attempt at current regulation. On a graph of this data,
there is a bit of a kink.

The data posted shows 78.8% of short-circuit current with a load that
loads down the output voltage to half the open circuit voltage.

Ideally, inductive reactance such as leakage reactance would result in
86.6% of short circuit current to a load that loads down the output
voltage to half the open circuit voltage.

I believe the data above show resistance being part of the output
impedance, and/or the leakage inductance being nonlinear (less at higher
current).

One thing I have experienced: Output impedance (ratio of open circuit
voltage to short circuit current at least) of an oil burner transformer
being higher when the input voltage is decreased.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[Larry Brasfield]

<oparr@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1117636686.654462.23670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

In commercial CNC setups, is the drill motor powered during the entire
drilling operation (except tool changes) or is it cycled on/off at each
hole location?

When I saw that operation at a local board house, the
drill spent as about much time in the stack as out. There
was no pause to let the motor spin down and back up,
and I doubt any shop would do it that way.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.

 

[ryan wiehle]

Robert wrote:

Hello,
Can I buy it for 3$ or maybe I can find cheaper ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50915&item=7519
278787&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

that is just the ISP cable, you still need the program software.
I used ponyprog

 

[John Fields]

On 1 Jun 2005 05:32:43 -0700, jpopelish@rica.net wrote:

Facts are so much better than assumptions. Thanks for going to this
trouble for all of us. I dug a bit deeper, and my assumptions fell
through. I was thinking of the effect of the resonant circuit in a
ferroresonant transformer, and apparently, neon sign transformers have
only leakage inductance (more like the character of a microwave oven
transformer or welder), which would agree well with your measurements.
But I wonder how they get it to act as nonlinear as it does. It seems
strange that the short circuit current is only about 1.25 times as high
as the current that pulls the output voltage down by half. That surely
looks like an attempt at current regulation. On a graph of this data,
there is a bit of a kink.

---
Yes, at the high voltage end I used a bunch of 20 megohm metal oxide
resistors for the load, but I'm pretty sure they aren't rated for
10-15kV, so that may be where the kink came from. Or, measurement
error :-(

There's another problem I'm trying to solve, though, and that's why
the output current is so low. I had thought that 15mA out of each
secondary to the center tap would result in 30mA total, but that's not
right. I called the manufacturer and their tech guy said that I ought
to get 30mA RMS out of the entire shorted secondary, just like Don
said. Well, he didn't say RMS, but...

The strange part is I've got a 9kV and a 15kV transformer, and I get
the same short circuit current out of both of them, making several
measurements with different meters.

I've got a friend who owns a sign shop, so I guess the next thing I'll
do is take a meter over there and see what a known good transformer
puts out.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[w_tom]

To demonstrate the complexity of power supplies - the so
many functions that must be part of a minimally sufficient
supply: Take that example supply from www.pavouk.comp.cz.
Notice the feedback and voltage divider circuit as discussed
by Franc using equations. That supply does not provide
sufficient galvanic isolation. All appliances must have
internal transient protection. Intel specs demand that
computers be even more robust. But that feedback circuit does
not provide thousands of voltages of isolation. That's right -
thousands of volts. An optoisolator for galvanic isolation
should have been located where those feedback resistors are
located.

Does your power supply for the 'who-dad device' require
galvanic isolation? Maybe. Maybe not. But galvanic
isolation is but another function in power supply design.
This noted because so many buy power supplies on price that
are then missing essential internal functions. Does your
clone computer power supply provide galvanic isolation? If
not, then internal transient protection has been compromised.

This posted just to demonstrate but another complication of
power supply design.

Terry Pinnell wrote:

The following thread I started a couple of days ago may also be
helpful.

From: Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Rating of PC power supplies?
Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 07:10:38 +0100
Message-ID: <3fmi91pcd4ig5uaighsu62dnpdk8a69l91@4ax.com

In particular, Franc Zabkar posted this link to a detailed schematic:
http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[John Fields]

On 31 May 2005 21:25:02 -0700, "tom" <tmcmurtrie@keystone.otago.ac.nz>
wrote:

That is correct, the cycle would continue to repeat.

---
OK.

I've posted a schematic for you at alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
under "Random ON/OFF Timer Circuit".

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Ban]

w_tom wrote:
That supply does not provide

sufficient galvanic isolation. All appliances must have
internal transient protection. Intel specs demand that
computers be even more robust. But that feedback circuit does
not provide thousands of voltages of isolation. That's right -
thousands of volts. An optoisolator for galvanic isolation
should have been located where those feedback resistors are
located.

Does your power supply for the 'who-dad device' require
galvanic isolation? Maybe. Maybe not. But galvanic
isolation is but another function in power supply design.
This noted because so many buy power supplies on price that
are then missing essential internal functions. Does your
clone computer power supply provide galvanic isolation? If
not, then internal transient protection has been compromised.

This posted just to demonstrate but another complication of
power supply design.

schematic: http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html

W_tom, you are wrong, the primary side is insulated by 3 transformers T2,T3
and the always on +5V supply T6. Depending on these transformers will be the
isolation, maybe even 1200-2000V for a short time. The outputs and the
internal circuits are not isolated from each other, which saves a lot of
optos and associated transmission problems. The same is true for the power
good line and the PS-ON line.
I wonder why there would not be galvanic isolation?
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Ban]

w_tom wrote:
That supply does not provide

sufficient galvanic isolation. All appliances must have
internal transient protection. Intel specs demand that
computers be even more robust. But that feedback circuit does
not provide thousands of voltages of isolation. That's right -
thousands of volts. An optoisolator for galvanic isolation
should have been located where those feedback resistors are
located.

Does your power supply for the 'who-dad device' require
galvanic isolation? Maybe. Maybe not. But galvanic
isolation is but another function in power supply design.
This noted because so many buy power supplies on price that
are then missing essential internal functions. Does your
clone computer power supply provide galvanic isolation? If
not, then internal transient protection has been compromised.

This posted just to demonstrate but another complication of
power supply design.

schematic: http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html

W_tom, you are wrong, the primary side is insulated by 3 transformers T2,T3
and the always on +5V supply T6. Depending on these transformers will be the
isolation, maybe even 1200-2000V for a short time. The outputs and the
internal circuits are not isolated from each other, which saves a lot of
optos and associated transmission problems. The same is true for the power
good line and the PS-ON line.
I wonder why there would not be galvanic isolation?
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[w_tom]

I stand corrected. Transformers T2 and T6 do isolate the
R25 and R26 resistors from the mains. Those other
transformers do provide the necessary galvanic isolation even
to the PS-ON signal.

The point begin galvanic isolation is necessary when
circuits can be exposed to human contact and for other reasons
involving semiconductor protection. Not all power supplies
provide galvanic isolation nor need that function be
necessary. Just another of so many functions that must be
part of power supply designs.

Ban wrote:

W_tom, you are wrong, the primary side is insulated by 3 transformers
T2,T3 and the always on +5V supply T6. Depending on these
transformers will be the isolation, maybe even 1200-2000V for a short
time. The outputs and the internal circuits are not isolated from
each other, which saves a lot of optos and associated transmission
problems. The same is true for the power good line and the PS-ON
line. I wonder why there would not be galvanic isolation?

 

[Terry Pinnell]

John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

I've posted a schematic for you at alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
under "Random ON/OFF Timer Circuit".

Nice stuff! I'm hoping the OP will ask you for some narrative, as it
would save me a lot of time <g>.

But, hey, that's arguably even more complex than my 4017 suggestion!

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Pete,

"PeteS" <ps@fleetwoodmobile.com> wrote in message
news:1117620158.131553.99970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Regarding Joel's notes on filter sections, it is true that in many
instances a relatively simple filter calculation may be done for a
workable switcher, but that depends on a number of things.

[Lots of good explanation deleted...]

Those are all good points, but keep in mind why chips such as National's
"Simple Switchers" are so popular: Many relatively inexperienced engineers are
given the job of designing relatively undemanding switchers, and they use
whatever they can to get the job down as best as possible. I think it's a
safe assumption that if someone can't tell you why a "Simple Switcher" IC
isn't an all-purpose solution, it's the kind of chip they should be using!

I am all for people learning traditional filter design theory. It's
unfortunately an area that's slowly dying due to more and more filters being
able to be replaced by DSP techniques.

---Joel Kolstad

 

[jibberjabber]

There is hot-melt and there is hot-melt. We use a polyamide stick (Tec-bond
7718, black) and it's much better than the craft variety we used to use.
j

<upgrdman@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1117249160.423650.214750@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

I'm building some LED headlights for my radio-controlled car, and I
plan to use one of those project boards or whatever they're are called
to wire my LEDs and their resistors. But my RC car is gas powered, and
the engine puts out a lot of vibration. I'm concerned that my big white
LED's will be tugging a little on their solder joints without some sort
of brace, and I would like to just use some hot-glue form a glue gun.

But I'm new to electronics, and I do not know if the glue would be too
hot? and I doubt it, but does the glue conduct electricity?

Thanks,
--Farrell F.

 

[Ban]

chrislev@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all

I'm pretty "green" when it comes to electronics so i'll appologise in
advance for my ignorance. =)

I'm interested in building a Solar Panel -> Battery -> LED light
system to put on/In a Geodesic dome i've built. The idea being that
the panels charge the Battery during the day and then i flip a switch
(or something) at night and the LEDs come on (lighting the inside of
the dome), being powered by the battery.

so my questions are as such:

1) i was thinking of using 3-LED bundles - perhaps 3 of them (so 9
LEDs total) since i don't need TONS of light, just enough to not be
tripping over stuff. Is a rechargable 12V battery (like this one
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml;jsessionid=LVIDHIHLLUAPXTQSNOFSCOWOCJVY2IWE?id=0023384016657a&navCount=0&cmCat=srchdx&cm_ven=srchdx&cm_ite=srchdx&_requestid=24926)
large enough.. or TOO large to power the LEDs for the entire night?

2) if a get a 12V solar panel (like this one
http://store.sundancesolar.com/20wasopa.html), do i need any circuitry
between the panel and the battery for it to charge correctly/safely
(assuming the battery and solar panel are the same/similar voltage)?

The panel is a good choice.
you will need a charge controller like the one on the bottom of the page to
not overcharge the battery. If your panel puts out 1.2A max., you might
receive around 6-8Ah every day. Your battery is a bit small for this, that
means it will not be able to absorb all of the charge, but after half day
the panel is switched off by the controller and the capacity is wasted.
A good rule of thump is to use a battery with 3-4 times the dayly output, so
a 24Ah would be better. If you use the lighting every day, your consumation
should be a little less, lets say 5Ah. This avoids a run-down battery, which
shortens its life a lot. also the battery should never be discharged to less
than 50% to keep it alive for a couple of years.
white LEDs are very expensive and do not give much light either, I would go
for the depicted flourescent light with 11W/12V, at least as a main light,
which outputs the equivalent of a 40-60W incandescent bulb. It will consume
about 1A, meaning that you can run it for 5 to 6 hours every night without
stressing the battery. If you want to run the lights a lot longer, there are
2.5W LED-arrays(18 or so) in a 50mm halogen fixture that will last 3times as
long, so you can run them the whole night.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

One day jezek2003@hotmail.com got dressed and committed to text

Hi there, I have an iriver mp3 player. Its a H100 series 15G player. I
lost my mains charger and wanted to charge it. I have a belkin car
charger for my 12V FM transmitter. The voltage on the back of the
player says 5V. I wasnt sure if those car chargers were universal or
not.
So i plug it in and pretty much straight away the light goes out on
the charger and the fuse blows in it.
Ive ordered a proper charger from iriver, but I dont know if i have
fried my player. Do you think and extra 7V in 2 seconds would do any
damage.
Im a bit freaked out cause i had all my fav music on there, and havent
backed it up. I'll get the iriver charger in a few days, but was
wondering if anyone had any opinion on this????

thanx..

kevin

I wouldnt get too optimistic if I were you :-(
However maybe it has survived the double voltage, personally I'd bet it's
toasted.

--
Regards ..... Rheilly Phoull

 

[Ban]

jezek2003@hotmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I have an iriver mp3 player. Its a H100 series 15G player. I
lost my mains charger and wanted to charge it. I have a belkin car
charger for my 12V FM transmitter. The voltage on the back of the
player says 5V. I wasnt sure if those car chargers were universal or
not.
So i plug it in and pretty much straight away the light goes out on
the charger and the fuse blows in it.
Ive ordered a proper charger from iriver, but I dont know if i have
fried my player. Do you think and extra 7V in 2 seconds would do any
damage.
Im a bit freaked out cause i had all my fav music on there, and havent
backed it up. I'll get the iriver charger in a few days, but was
wondering if anyone had any opinion on this????

kevin,

doesn't sound too good. if the transmitter is 12V, the "charger" is just a
fuse probably and the current is almost unlimited for the first moment, the
fuse will only protect from catching fire.
I don't know about iRiver, but there are appliances that are protected
against overvoltage. All the gadgets I build will survive a 40V overvoltage
of any polarity, but they have their own fuse inside. This is usually not
done in consumer stuff, especially the miniature one.
Well as long as you havn't stored your digital fotos in there, the music can
be collected again.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:12:16 -0700, jezek2003 wrote:

Hi there, I have an iriver mp3 player. Its a H100 series 15G player. I
lost my mains charger and wanted to charge it. I have a belkin car
charger for my 12V FM transmitter. The voltage on the back of the
player says 5V. I wasnt sure if those car chargers were universal or
not.
So i plug it in and pretty much straight away the light goes out on the
charger and the fuse blows in it.
Ive ordered a proper charger from iriver, but I dont know if i have
fried my player. Do you think and extra 7V in 2 seconds would do any
damage.
Im a bit freaked out cause i had all my fav music on there, and havent
backed it up. I'll get the iriver charger in a few days, but was
wondering if anyone had any opinion on this????

Oh, yes, I definitely have an opinion.

Sorry,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 04:05:26 -0700, Robert wrote:

"Yoda" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<rNgne.8462$iA6.4343@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>...
No offense, but if $3 is too much for you to pay for a programmer, you
should probably find another hobby.


You are right, now the programmer is more expensive:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50915&item=7521024552&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
but I shoudn't wait propably ?

Problem is, that's not a programmer. It's a cable. To make a programmer,
you need both the development board, or actual programmer, and the
applicable software driver, which the seller gives a list of, but
no indication that any of it is included.

For a cable, it's not a bad price, but do you have the rest of the
components already?

Interestingly, I saw the same thing advertised here a week or so ago.
Give it another pass, and chances are the guy will be giving it away
for 0.01 + shipping next time.

Good Luck!
Rich