Chip with simple program for Toy

[Joerg]

Joerg wrote:

ronwer wrote:
Probably you could start by finding information about this gear but
there would have to be someone on the team who can understand German:
http://www.100-jahre-radar.de/index.html?/gdr_5_deutschefunkmesstechnikim2wk.html


Many such sites have links to British and American gear but often
also in German. Another option are senior centers. A few of the EEs
from those days are still alive but there won't be much time left.

--
Regards, Joerg


Thanks! I will check this out. German is no problem whatsoever!

Best regards,

Ronald
Norway

Ah, Norway. Then you might even find some WW-II veterans from the German
side. I've met a few when I was younger. Some had been stationed there
and liked it so much that they later moved to Scandinavia or bought a
summer house there. One friend of mine would have known a lot about
these Radars but unfortunately he passed away. He went on vacation to
Norway pretty much every year.

In contrast to today the guys at the sites were intimately familiar with
the circuitry because they had to repair this stuff on the component level.

Here is another link for you. Looks like the first patent for a silicon
diode was issued in 1906. That blew me away. Starts at page 7:

http://assets.cambridge.org/052183/5267/sample/0521835267ws.pdf

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Barry Lennox]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
<neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes
-name/type number of radar/communication equipment
-technical infor on those systems
-info on producers
-pictures of actual diodes, also "in" the circuits
-anecdotal stories about the actual use
-anything else!

As mentioned by another, Vol 15 and 16 of the Radlab series has a lot
of what you will be after. But also check out the Vol 17: "Components
handbook" that also has a fair amount on diodes.

Also, look at "A History of Engineering and Science in the Bell
System1925-1975" There are 6 volumes, ranging from 360 to about 1000
pages, and they all cover diodes to some extent.

The RSGB "Technical Topics" scrapbooks (there's now 4) compiled by
G3VA, Pat Hawker, also mentions WW2 equipments and components in many
places. He was initially a VI, then joined Special Comms and SOE
during the war.

I also had an interesting book by Philips back in the 60's on diodes,
long gone now tho!

Barry

 

[Don Bowey]

On 4/13/08 12:41 PM, in article io6dneayupGK_5_VRVnzvQA@telenor.com,
"Neodymium" <neo.dymium@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Don Bowey" <dbowey@comcast.net> skrev i melding
news:C42650B2.B518B%dbowey@comcast.net...
On 4/12/08 9:31 AM, in article
KqmdnRpvIuJgfp3VnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.


I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.


In which case it was likely used in the FPS19 radar or/and the Tropo
systems
if my memory isn't fractured. But the early Projects were begun in the
50s.

John's post reprogrammed my erroneous thought that the 1N23 is germanium.
It is the 1N21 that is germanium, and likely existed in the 40s.


I googled for 1N23, some say germanium, others silicon...

Some of the "documentation" is so bad it's impossible to interpret it with
any assurance of being correct. However, I did find what I believe to be
valid data: the 1N23 is a Point Contact, Silicon device.

But you are sure it IS silicon!?

Now I am.

One datasheet I found was in Japanese/Chineze, and the other didn't mention
Si/Ge at all. Max f=9,325 GHz

It's hard surfing effectively with only 56 kbs at a hilltop far from the
civilized world.

At Wikipedia they said germanium:

Wiki has some Very bad information about diodes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMA_tube_designation

I am out on a job, but when I get back in Mai I can check my own sample with
a multimeter, that will give a result.

Handle them carefully, as static discharge can destroy them easily.

Ronald
Norway

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:23:28 +0100, "john jardine"
<john.jardine@idnet.co.uk> wrote:

"Neodymium" <neo.dymium@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:io6dneeyupGL_5_VRVnzvQA@telenor.com...
I thought at that point in time, practical diodes were all germanium
point contact types, at least the ones used for RF detection. But I
see from some web searching that I was wrong about that. The series
of articles at this site may be interesting:

http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1940-Discovery.html.
That page mentions that the P-N junction was discovered by a
researcher using purified silicon in 1940. Robert Buderi's book, "The
Invention that Changed the World: How a small group of radar pioneers
won the Second World War and launched a technological revolution,"
might be a good place to do some research too. I'd have a look in it
to see what he says about silicon diodes, but my copy is at my office
at the moment.


Thanks for this link, hadn't seen this site before! Excellent info!


Quartz crystals for frequency control were used somewhat before that.
This paper: http://www.ieee-uffc.org/fc_history/bottom.html says that
a piece of quartz was used to control the frequency of an oscillator
in 1919. Perhaps that is the first. I know there was a lot of
interest in quartz crystals among amateur radio operators/builders in
the 1930's. If you can find copies of QST or other ham magazines from
that era, I'll bet you can find articles about quartz crystals.

I knew that one. I also bought a number of old magazines on eBay with
atricles about piezoelectronic quartz crystals.

WW-II info on diodes has been more difficult so far.

Thanks!

Ronald
Norway



I've a R1359 UHF receiver. It formed part of the UK's 'Home chain' radar
network. Tuning is via a diode stuck in the end of what looks a circular
Lecher line.
Diode is marked with the military designation 'CV364' and is same package as
the IN23 series. I never found any data on this diode but for curiosity took
it out and measured it. Germanium!.

But Chain Home was an HF system.

John

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:41:52 +0200, "Neodymium" <neo.dymium@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"Don Bowey" <dbowey@comcast.net> skrev i melding
news:C42650B2.B518B%dbowey@comcast.net...
On 4/12/08 9:31 AM, in article
KqmdnRpvIuJgfp3VnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.


I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.


In which case it was likely used in the FPS19 radar or/and the Tropo
systems
if my memory isn't fractured. But the early Projects were begun in the
50s.

John's post reprogrammed my erroneous thought that the 1N23 is germanium.
It is the 1N21 that is germanium, and likely existed in the 40s.


I googled for 1N23, some say germanium, others silicon...

But you are sure it IS silicon!?

---
http://www.advancedsemiconductor.com/pdf/diodes/SiliconPointContactMixer.pdf


And, here's a _good_ one:

http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1941-semiconductor.html

JF

 

[Tom Bruhns]

On Apr 13, 12:41 pm, "Neodymium" <neo.dym...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I thought at that point in time, practical diodes were all germanium
point contact types, at least the ones used for RF detection. But I
see from some web searching that I was wrong about that. The series
of articles at this site may be interesting:
http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1940-Discovery.....
That page mentions that the P-N junction was discovered by a
researcher using purified silicon in 1940. Robert Buderi's book, "The
Invention that Changed the World: How a small group of radar pioneers
won the Second World War and launched a technological revolution,"
might be a good place to do some research too. I'd have a look in it
to see what he says about silicon diodes, but my copy is at my office
at the moment.

Thanks for this link, hadn't seen this site before! Excellent info!

Quartz crystals for frequency control were used somewhat before that.
This paper: http://www.ieee-uffc.org/fc_history/bottom.htmlsays that
a piece of quartz was used to control the frequency of an oscillator
in 1919. Perhaps that is the first. I know there was a lot of
interest in quartz crystals among amateur radio operators/builders in
the 1930's. If you can find copies of QST or other ham magazines from
that era, I'll bet you can find articles about quartz crystals.

I knew that one. I also bought a number of old magazines on eBay with
atricles about piezoelectronic quartz crystals.

WW-II info on diodes has been more difficult so far.

Thanks!

Ronald
Norway

Now that I'm in my office, I can look at the Buderi book. Indeed it
has some interesting stuff: from page 117 (near the bottom),

"From that point, it did not take long to identify the Brisith
receiver's silicon crystal detectors as the main factor behind its
superior showing. The Radlab radar employed a grounded grid triode.
The finding stunned the Americans, since they ahd started with
crystals but abandoned them earlier in the year after tests showed
vacuum tubes to be superior. Only later, Ramsey related, did it
become apparent that the crystal used for the American tests had
partially burned out. The British, by contrast, had gone with
crystals from the start. By spring 1941, Oliphant's lab had designed
a better capsule that lessened susceptibility to shock and vibration,
and rendered crystals superior to anything in the United States; these
had gone into mass production at British Thomson-Houston. Around the
same time the duplexing, or TR, problem was solved by the ingenious
application of a reflex klystron, itself an adaptation of the Varian
brothers' original creation. The so-called soft Sutton tube was
filled with a low-pressure gas that was rapidly ionized by the
transmitter pulse, providing a short circuit that protected the
crystal from burnout. Once the pulse ended, the gas recovered,
allowing received signals passage to the detector."

There's a nice section at pages 314-320 covering the discovery of the
silicon P-N junction.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[whit3rd]

On Apr 12, 9:24 am, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"

neo.dymium.removethisfi...@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

1N23 is a good place to start.

My (early seventies) reference says 1N23 was Ge(germanium),
and the lowest-listed Si diode is 1N53. In any case, germanium
or silicon diodes were fragile point-contact things, and wouldn't
have been rugged enough for portable or aircraft use.
I think the development of pellet diodes happened AFTER WW II.

Quartz stabilization of radios was a major improvement,
and aircraft radios benefited greatly. German fighter aircraft
directed by ground-radar operators were the most effective
defense against British strategic bombing...

The "1N" designation for semiconductor diodes comes from JEDEC
which was only created in 1958, a decade after WW II.

 

[JosephKK]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

 

[Don Bowey]

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net>
wrote:

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

All my references say that the 1N23 is a silicon point-contact
(Schottky) diode. MicroMetrics still makes them - at insane prices -
and theirs are definitely silicon.

http://www.micrometrics.com/pdfs/PC_SXBandMixer.pdf

Some of the WWII vintage mixer diodes are impressive. Vf was typically
about 250 mV at 1 mA, and junction capacitances were a couple of
tenths of a pF, about as good as any packaged diode you can buy today.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Early 40's, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.

John

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Early 40's, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.

A lot of existing devices were given JEDEC numbers after the system
was created. Different manufacturers made similar parts, with different
numbering. That was why the standard was created.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Larkin wrote:

All my references say that the 1N23 is a silicon point-contact
(Schottky) diode. MicroMetrics still makes them - at insane prices -
and theirs are definitely silicon.

http://www.micrometrics.com/pdfs/PC_SXBandMixer.pdf

Some originals are still avilible as NOS surplus, if you know where
to look.

Some of the WWII vintage mixer diodes are impressive. Vf was typically
about 250 mV at 1 mA, and junction capacitances were a couple of
tenths of a pF, about as good as any packaged diode you can buy today.

John

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:51:24 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Early 40's, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.

---
Cite?

JF

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:29:32 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:51:24 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Early 40's, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.

---
Cite?

JF

MIT RadLab books, volume 15, "Crystal Rectifiers", appendix D,
published in 1948.

What is the citation for your statement that "The 1N23 didn't appear
until the '50's, I believe." ?

John

 

[JosephKK]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net>
wrote:

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium. A heck of a lot of
"official" or "authoritative" records are pure fertilizer.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:03:32 GMT, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net
wrote:

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.


The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium. A heck of a lot of
"official" or "authoritative" records are pure fertilizer.

What test?

John

 

[Don Bowey]

On 4/20/08 8:03 PM, in article fq0o0456in1873ki1d5srtsh611eq1a3nj@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net
wrote:

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn't appear until the '50's, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.


The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium. A heck of a lot of
"official" or "authoritative" records are pure fertilizer.

I'd chock that one up to undecided.

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:38:28 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:29:32 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20

Cite?

JF

MIT RadLab books, volume 15, "Crystal Rectifiers", appendix D,
published in 1948.

What is the citation for your statement that "The 1N23 didn't appear
until the '50's, I believe." ?

John

---
Working with them At Loral Electronics in New York and being told that
they were new, as I recall.

JF

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:25:01 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:38:28 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:29:32 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20

Cite?

JF

MIT RadLab books, volume 15, "Crystal Rectifiers", appendix D,
published in 1948.

What is the citation for your statement that "The 1N23 didn't appear
until the '50's, I believe." ?

John

---
Working with them At Loral Electronics in New York and being told that
they were new, as I recall.

JF

There were 1N23A's B's, C's, and maybe D's. 1N23, A and B were wartime
parts. Could have been C+ they were talking about. Or maybe they were
just wrong.

John