Chip with simple program for Toy

[Lord Garth]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2008.05.21.18.51.01.775788@example.net...

On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:54:47 +0800, ClueLess wrote:

"model"

Good Luck!
Rich

The spelling police are going to get you!!!

 

[Lord Garth]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2008.05.21.18.51.01.775788@example.net...

On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:54:47 +0800, ClueLess wrote:

"model"

Good Luck!
Rich

The spelling police are going to get you!!!

 

[Phil Allison]

"BobG" <

You dont need a Type K thermocouple until you get in the 100s of
degrees...

** Not true.

K-type thermocouples are ideal for many applications over a very wide temp
range - mainly due to the tiny thermal mass and size of the bead that has
to be heated (or cooled).

Perfect for small semiconductors, heatsinks and inaccessible spots.

In any case, most K probes are sold with Teflon coated lead wires and so are
only safe up to 250 C max.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk

Forget I said K-Type Thermoprobe

What is the type of probe that is in that picture, measuring the
temperature of that hard drive?

** Impossible to tell - that pic is far from clear enough and there is
nothing distinctive about what you can see.

My bet is that it is a simple thermistor or maybe just a diode & not a
"thermocouple" at all.



...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk>

I see, K-Type refers to the power end, not the sensing end , which was
what I was wondering about.

I will get a DMM with a K-Type socket .. And a K-Type thermistor to
match.

Regarding material for the thermocouple. My friend did mention that a
thermocouple uses 2 different metals, to get a difference in voltage.
But a)I will be using a thermistor anyway b)I just ask the electronics
store for one that goes 0-100C , and a table. That's the
functionality, so the implemenetation - if there are differences ,
makes no difference to me.

If for example I don't get a K-Type plug DMM and K-Type Thermistor.
Are there then any issues with wrapping wire around the legs of a bead
thermistor, tying them to it with insulation tape, and connecting them
to a DMM with crocodile clips?


** Folks - we have ourselves a genuine " live one " here.

Could be a second cousin to Vicky Pollard as well.

Lotsa inbreeding involved - for sure.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk>

I see, K-Type refers to the power end, not the sensing end , which was
what I was wondering about.

I will get a DMM with a K-Type socket .. And a K-Type thermistor to
match.

Regarding material for the thermocouple. My friend did mention that a
thermocouple uses 2 different metals, to get a difference in voltage.
But a)I will be using a thermistor anyway b)I just ask the electronics
store for one that goes 0-100C , and a table. That's the
functionality, so the implemenetation - if there are differences ,
makes no difference to me.

If for example I don't get a K-Type plug DMM and K-Type Thermistor.
Are there then any issues with wrapping wire around the legs of a bead
thermistor, tying them to it with insulation tape, and connecting them
to a DMM with crocodile clips?


** Folks - we have ourselves a genuine " live one " here.

Could be a second cousin to Vicky Pollard as well.

Lotsa inbreeding involved - for sure.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Blip" <blip@krumpli.com>

** Blimp ????

Lotsa inbreeding involved - for sure.


Wondering what part of sci.electronics.*basic* you don't understand

** What part of "live one " is novel to you -

you asinine fuckwit.



...... Phil

 

[Lord Garth]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2008.05.22.19.11.10.923988@example.net...

On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:53:56 -0500, Lord Garth wrote:
"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:54:47 +0800, ClueLess wrote:

"model"
Good Luck!
Rich

The spelling police are going to get you!!!

What? How would _you_ spell "model"?
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Amodel


Rich, that was another worker in this office screwing with my

computer when I was making a pit stop. I'm now convinced
he is lesdexic or just stupid!

;-)

PS. I'll try to remember to lock the keyboard when I'm out of sight
so that won't happen again.

 

[Lord Garth]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2008.05.22.19.11.10.923988@example.net...

On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:53:56 -0500, Lord Garth wrote:
"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:54:47 +0800, ClueLess wrote:

"model"
Good Luck!
Rich

The spelling police are going to get you!!!

What? How would _you_ spell "model"?
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Amodel


Rich, that was another worker in this office screwing with my

computer when I was making a pit stop. I'm now convinced
he is lesdexic or just stupid!

;-)

PS. I'll try to remember to lock the keyboard when I'm out of sight
so that won't happen again.

 

[Phil Allison]

<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk>

I see.. and cold junction is only a thermocouple issue..

So I still use a table of resistance-temperature.. I don't need a
multimeter with temperature.

http://www.omega.com/manuals/index.html?s=h (they are a US and UK
company)
Though his DMM with K-Type input, was very expensive.. 60UKP/$120

He mentioned HH11A $65/30UKP. LED with probe, displays temp.
or as an alternative. the MM approach we are discussing.
HHM15/16. $120/60UKP. Multimeter with K-Type connector (happens to
display temperature)

It displayed temperature, so one didn't need a table.. I was willing
to get one that didn't display temperature, and thus I would use a
table. But I don't think he had any.

I now see - thanks to all the explanations!- that Thermistors have
nothing to do with K-Type and nothing to do with cold Junction
issue. Given that..

Should I still forget thermistors? Can't I get one with a standard
plug that fits a multimeter, too ? And if they can just be wired with
any wires, and don't need to be a special socket on the multimeter.
Isn't that ideal? Better than thermocouple? Or are they expensive?

He didn't mention any multimeter with K-Type connector, that did not
display temperature.
Are there any big places in the US that sell them? They might ship to
UK.

Going off the purpose a bit..Looking at why the tech on the phone said
what he said. I guess he just meant that a DMM(or DVM no doubt) with
K-Type input would have the circuitry to deal with the cold junction
issue. So He was prob saying that because of that, they would not be
inaccurate..I guess he was saying that I can't wire the thermocouple
to a multimeter without K-Type input, because of the cold junction
issue. Though as Peter Bennett said.. that won't work anyway because
the wires would have to be the correct metal. (So I would get the
correct metal wires, by getting a K-Type thermocouple with its own
wires and its own standard plug, which implies a DMM/DVM with that
socket!)



** Folks - we have ourselves a genuine " live one " here.

Could be a cousin of Vicky Pollard as well.

Lotsa inbreeding involved - for sure.


...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk>

I see.. and cold junction is only a thermocouple issue..

So I still use a table of resistance-temperature.. I don't need a
multimeter with temperature.

http://www.omega.com/manuals/index.html?s=h (they are a US and UK
company)
Though his DMM with K-Type input, was very expensive.. 60UKP/$120

He mentioned HH11A $65/30UKP. LED with probe, displays temp.
or as an alternative. the MM approach we are discussing.
HHM15/16. $120/60UKP. Multimeter with K-Type connector (happens to
display temperature)

It displayed temperature, so one didn't need a table.. I was willing
to get one that didn't display temperature, and thus I would use a
table. But I don't think he had any.

I now see - thanks to all the explanations!- that Thermistors have
nothing to do with K-Type and nothing to do with cold Junction
issue. Given that..

Should I still forget thermistors? Can't I get one with a standard
plug that fits a multimeter, too ? And if they can just be wired with
any wires, and don't need to be a special socket on the multimeter.
Isn't that ideal? Better than thermocouple? Or are they expensive?

He didn't mention any multimeter with K-Type connector, that did not
display temperature.
Are there any big places in the US that sell them? They might ship to
UK.

Going off the purpose a bit..Looking at why the tech on the phone said
what he said. I guess he just meant that a DMM(or DVM no doubt) with
K-Type input would have the circuitry to deal with the cold junction
issue. So He was prob saying that because of that, they would not be
inaccurate..I guess he was saying that I can't wire the thermocouple
to a multimeter without K-Type input, because of the cold junction
issue. Though as Peter Bennett said.. that won't work anyway because
the wires would have to be the correct metal. (So I would get the
correct metal wires, by getting a K-Type thermocouple with its own
wires and its own standard plug, which implies a DMM/DVM with that
socket!)



** Folks - we have ourselves a genuine " live one " here.

Could be a cousin of Vicky Pollard as well.

Lotsa inbreeding involved - for sure.


...... Phil

 

[David L. Jones]

"Bill Bowden" <wrongaddress@att.net> wrote in message
news:6c10441c-c46f-461d-bb75-66d17d944d90@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

How much total current can be drawn from a typical 74HC device? I see
specs that state the ground current cannot exceed 50mA and other specs
that say the device dissipation is limited to 750mW. Most of the specs
say that 25mA can be had from any one output, but it's hard to figure
out the total for several outputs.

For example, the 74HC164 shift register is speced at 25mA per output
pin, but only a total of 50mA for the ground pin. Does that mean the
maximum output current for any one pin is limited to 6mA if all 8
outputs are loaded at the same time?

-Bill

Depends what you are driving. Those specs are usually referenced to
maintaining CMOS compatible voltage levels. If you are driving a load that
doesn't care about such things then you can get more.

Dave.

 

[David L. Jones]

"Bill Bowden" <wrongaddress@att.net> wrote in message
news:6c10441c-c46f-461d-bb75-66d17d944d90@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

How much total current can be drawn from a typical 74HC device? I see
specs that state the ground current cannot exceed 50mA and other specs
that say the device dissipation is limited to 750mW. Most of the specs
say that 25mA can be had from any one output, but it's hard to figure
out the total for several outputs.

For example, the 74HC164 shift register is speced at 25mA per output
pin, but only a total of 50mA for the ground pin. Does that mean the
maximum output current for any one pin is limited to 6mA if all 8
outputs are loaded at the same time?

-Bill

Depends what you are driving. Those specs are usually referenced to
maintaining CMOS compatible voltage levels. If you are driving a load that
doesn't care about such things then you can get more.

Dave.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Dave.Halfwit "

I'm building an amplifier for my iPod, based on two LM380 chips, I was
wondering if you could parallel the two amplifier sections off the one
battery supply, which will be a 9 volt battery in series with two AAA
batteries.

** No.

LM380s are not suitable for 9 volt radio battery operation.

The LM386 is.


....... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Dave.Halfwit "

I'm building an amplifier for my iPod, based on two LM380 chips, I was
wondering if you could parallel the two amplifier sections off the one
battery supply, which will be a 9 volt battery in series with two AAA
batteries.

** No.

LM380s are not suitable for 9 volt radio battery operation.

The LM386 is.


....... Phil

 

[Bob Masta]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT), fny1182@rofl-online.com
wrote:

One of the reasons the clicker idea is a consideration is because it
could have a long cable so that staff wouldn't even need to be in
front of the computer at all. They could be standing in the window and
quickly/easily click something in their hand every time a horse
crosses the line.

Another approach you might consider is to use the sound card input
lines with a switch that connects to a 1.5V battery. (Also requires a
bleeder for when the switch is open, since the sound card is AC
coupled.)

The advantage of this is that it can be accurate to one sample period
(20.8 usec at 48000 Hz), whereas anything keyboard related goes
through the normal Windows message queue and could have a latency
of 10s of msec, depending on what else Windows thinks it needs to be
doing at any given instant. (The sound card system is set up to not
miss anything.) However, although this approach will have simple
hardware needs, it will require much more programming effort to
implement.

This approach can easily provide 2 independent inputs, one for each
stereo channel. If you need more than that, you could use a simple
divider with multiple switches, so each switch applies a different
voltage to the input. (Resulting in a different capacitively-coupled
spike amplitude at the sound card.)

Best regards,



Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

 

[Bob Masta]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT), fny1182@rofl-online.com
wrote:

One of the reasons the clicker idea is a consideration is because it
could have a long cable so that staff wouldn't even need to be in
front of the computer at all. They could be standing in the window and
quickly/easily click something in their hand every time a horse
crosses the line.

Another approach you might consider is to use the sound card input
lines with a switch that connects to a 1.5V battery. (Also requires a
bleeder for when the switch is open, since the sound card is AC
coupled.)

The advantage of this is that it can be accurate to one sample period
(20.8 usec at 48000 Hz), whereas anything keyboard related goes
through the normal Windows message queue and could have a latency
of 10s of msec, depending on what else Windows thinks it needs to be
doing at any given instant. (The sound card system is set up to not
miss anything.) However, although this approach will have simple
hardware needs, it will require much more programming effort to
implement.

This approach can easily provide 2 independent inputs, one for each
stereo channel. If you need more than that, you could use a simple
divider with multiple switches, so each switch applies a different
voltage to the input. (Resulting in a different capacitively-coupled
spike amplitude at the sound card.)

Best regards,



Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

 

[Bob Masta]

On Wed, 21 May 2008 18:53:06 -0700 (PDT), "jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk"
<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I would like to get a temperature probe like this, from an electronics
place.

How would it be described technically? I know they have specific
names, for the form of the bit at the end. K-Type e.t.c.

Here is a picture (it is measuring a HDD temp)
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/nzxt_sentry/images/12.htm

I am also interested in the same question, regarding this probe.
It is measuring CPU temp
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/nzxt_sentry/images/9.htm

Note- I know there are other ways. Software, IR Temp sensor Gun, to
measure temp of components. But I am interested particularly, in these
temp probes like in the picture. some wires and a thing on the end,
and you tape it to the component and read the temperature.

Thanks.

The simplest for a one-off application such as this is an ordinary
diode junction whose forward "resistance" is measured with an ordinary
DMM on Ohms range. The Ohms range drives a constant current through
the diode, and the diode's forward voltage drop falls with increasing
temperature. This is *very* linear, better than almost anything else
you will find (vastly better than thermocouples or thermistors). Not
to mention being dirt cheap, and available in fairly small packages.

The only drawback is that each unit must be calibrated individually,
which is why you don't see this used more often. (It *is* commonly
used to sense CPU and other chip temperatures for fan activation,
where precise temperatures are not really needed.)

Calibration consists of inserting the diode into an ice bath,
then a boiling water bath, and noting the readings on the DMM.
Any intermediate temperature is found via simple interpolation.
You can also extrapolate outside this range. The basic concept is
good from near absolute zero until the junction starts to melt.

Note that you may need to coat the diode leads with something to keep
the water from them during calibration.


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

 

[Bob Masta]

On Wed, 21 May 2008 18:53:06 -0700 (PDT), "jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk"
<jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I would like to get a temperature probe like this, from an electronics
place.

How would it be described technically? I know they have specific
names, for the form of the bit at the end. K-Type e.t.c.

Here is a picture (it is measuring a HDD temp)
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/nzxt_sentry/images/12.htm

I am also interested in the same question, regarding this probe.
It is measuring CPU temp
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/nzxt_sentry/images/9.htm

Note- I know there are other ways. Software, IR Temp sensor Gun, to
measure temp of components. But I am interested particularly, in these
temp probes like in the picture. some wires and a thing on the end,
and you tape it to the component and read the temperature.

Thanks.

The simplest for a one-off application such as this is an ordinary
diode junction whose forward "resistance" is measured with an ordinary
DMM on Ohms range. The Ohms range drives a constant current through
the diode, and the diode's forward voltage drop falls with increasing
temperature. This is *very* linear, better than almost anything else
you will find (vastly better than thermocouples or thermistors). Not
to mention being dirt cheap, and available in fairly small packages.

The only drawback is that each unit must be calibrated individually,
which is why you don't see this used more often. (It *is* commonly
used to sense CPU and other chip temperatures for fan activation,
where precise temperatures are not really needed.)

Calibration consists of inserting the diode into an ice bath,
then a boiling water bath, and noting the readings on the DMM.
Any intermediate temperature is found via simple interpolation.
You can also extrapolate outside this range. The basic concept is
good from near absolute zero until the junction starts to melt.

Note that you may need to coat the diode leads with something to keep
the water from them during calibration.


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

 

[Bob Eld]

"panfilero" <panfilero@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f1496677-7937-43e6-9bbd-386d103b675d@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

I was wondering if I take the RMS voltage of a messy looking square
wave, a noisy square wave, with some measurement device, and I want to
know the regular current of the thing can I take the RMS current and
divide it by the square root of 2 in order to get my regular current?

I know you can do this for sinusoidal ac signals but don't know if the
math still works out the same for other signals...

PS - I got my RMS current value by dividing the RMS voltage value by a
known resistance I have in my circuit

Much Thanks for any responses I get

Yes the RMS current is the RMS voltage devided by R.

No, the "regualr curent" What ever that is, is not the RMS current divided
by the square root of two. With a sign wave, the peak current divided by the
the square root of two is the RMS current, but ONLY for a sign wave.

With any other waveform, the the square root of two relation does NOT hold.
It must be calculated from first principles or measured with a true RMS
meter.

The equation for the RMS current is: Irms = ((int i(t)^2 dt )/ T)^1/2
Where i(t) is the current as a function of time, T is the time over which
the integral is taken, ( 0 to T ), usually one period of the wave.

That is, in words, the RMS current is the square root of the average time
integral of the current squared.

For a square wave of current Ip going plus and minus over a period of T the
RMS value is:

Irms =( ( (Ip^2 *T/2 + (-Ip)^2 * T/2)) / T)^1/2 = ( (Ip ^2)/2 +
(Ip^2)/2)^1/2 = (Ip ^2)^1/2

Irms = Ip, The RMS equals the peak value for a square wave. It very much
more complicated if noise is present.