Chip with simple program for Toy

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On 21 Jun 2005 06:21:17 -0700, "obliquez" <obliquez@gmail.com> wrote:

snip

Wow, I'm sorry, but i don't quite get it. Are you saying that i don't
need a buffer circuit? I can just connect the sensor directly to the
buzzer? Coz my teacher insists that i do need a driver circuit. Hence
all the questions.

You probably _are_ supposed to use a driver circuit. Even if the
piezo only requires a constant voltage to be applied in order to work.
Even if it performs reasonably well when tried, I have a hard time
believing that the teacher would want you to simply connect the two
without a driver circuit.

I am not an undergrad. I'm not getting a degree. Where I'm from, we
have schools called Polytechinics (17-19 yr olds). So i'm not sure
what's it equivalent to in your country. =)

Ah. Thanks for that. I figured it might be my own assumptions that
were the problem. We don't have the exact equivalent here in the US,
though it sounds about like "going to community college" to me. My
apologies for my own ignorance about this possibility.

....

So, can you first say if you are allowed to use two different supply
voltages from a bench supply to run your circuit? Also, do you
already know for sure which level is used by the sensor output signal
line for the case when the liquid covers it? I sort of believe John's
thought that it is LO when covered and HI when not covered, but I'm
just not sure anymore.

Has the teacher taught you much about BJTs? If so, can you describe a
little of how you think about them? It will help a lot when writing a
useful reply.

Jon

 

[Lord Garth]

"TLOlczyk" <olczyk2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:61jhb158r17n4u2f20ighoou9ijlsgoi26@4ax.com...

A power supply on one of my computers recently failed.
( I know it is the supply. I yanked another supply out of another
computer, and this computer runs fine. I tried this supply in the
other computer and it wont run. )

A freind had an Compaq he wanted to throw out, so he gave it to me.
The mobo connector on the power supply was correct but the leads in
were the wrong color ( except for ground ). He also had a repair
manual, the voltages it described matched the voltages in the ATX
spec.

So I attached a few old hard drives and fans to the power supply ( for
a load ) and tried grounding the power on line. It wouldn't turn on.

I then yanked the Compaq mobo, attached the power supply to the
mobo, and turned it on. With the back exposed, I measured the voltages
on each of the current carrying lines and they matched.

I temporarily put in the power supply, and plugged it in. The computer
came on when I plugged the supply into the 120, didn't have to push
the button.

So now I'm confused.

Before I install the PS, I will have to take the connector from the
old PS and wire it into the Compaq PS ( the leads on the connector are
way short, the form factor of the supply seems off in that regard ).

Here are the differences that I have noted in the manual and the ATX
standard.


Differnce one. A lead labeld Fan off on the Compaq is label PowerOK in
the ATX spec.
Difference two. One of the ground leads is specified as remote sensing
on the Compaq. none are specified that way in the ATX standard.
Difference three. One of the 3.3 leads is specified as remote sensing
in both the Compaq and the ATX standard.

I have no idea what remote sensing means in this case. Should I change
those leads? Should I not use the remote sensing ground lead?

Would that explain the power on without abutton push?
Thanks.

The problem is powerok also know as 'power good'. The motherboard

outputs a signal to this input within a specific time frame or the ATX
will shut off. If the motherboard does not provide this signal, you can
jumper it to a 5 volt output. Lack of the power good signal is why you
must keep the switch input grounded when it is not connected to a
motherboard. Check your case switch, it is momentary.

Sense inputs measure the power supply voltage at the load and adjust
the voltage so as to be within spec.

I would not be surprised to find similar connector with different pin
outs on Compaq / HP or Dell systems. They want you to buy their
over priced replacements.

ATX power supplies are electronically switched. They can and do
false. This is why you should switch off or unplug the supply when
adding or removing cards from the slots.

 

[Roger Johansson]

thomson.eric@gmail.com wrote:

This group needs a FAQ, as it seems every day someone comes
with a "Hey, can you help me get started in electronics?" query.

It takes at least one person who is willing to collect and
organize the information from different sources and set up a web site.
That person can ask in the newsgroup for help with facts or
explanations.

The result could be a web site which we can refer to.

Something like this, maybe?
"This is a FAQ for seb, created by Eric Thomson, with kind assistance
of the participators of seb."

or

"This is a web site about elementary electronics, created by the
participators of the discussion group sci.electr..
Current editor: Eric Thomson."

It can be inspirational to look at the web site the participators of
alt.comp.freeware have achieved, at
http://pricelesswarehome.org/

But that is an example of a very advanced and massive web site. They
found a girl who likes to run it and update it. People tell her about
updates and ideas for the web site and she often asks the group for its
meaning on different issues.

Voting about the best freeware programs is organized once a year and
the groups selection is presented on the web site. The web site also
contains other stuff the group has suggested. Another guy has started a
wiki web site and he cooperates with the girl and a few others about
issues which are not worth discussing in the group.

They needed to get a new web site for Pricelessware, so they asked for
help in the group. 4-5 contributors gave enough money to run the web
site for the coming 5 years.

Pricelessware is on its way to becoming known, computer magazines and
bloggers talk about it, and increasing numbers of people use the web
site.
This is what can be achieved through voluntary cooperation.

Think about the other end of the scale of commitment. Could we achieve
something worth looking at for a beginner, even though we are lazy
bastards, and can we do it without even getting sweaty?


I am too occupied with other things, but maybe you could do it?


--
Roger J.

 

[medusa569]

Hey Dude!

I think this will be simply for you.....since it's very late now i'll scan
the plan and email you tomorrow. I'm on wisconsin aven in dc. I'd really
appreciate help on this project as its very important to me...not a hobby.

later, claire


<dewdude@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118961612.640788.200290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Hi,

I live in Northern Virginia and work on pinball machines and video
games for a living (yea, i get paid to do it)

While I myself have never recieved any "formal" education in
electronics. I've gotten enough basics and i'm damn good at reading
schematics. I might be able to take a look at it and give you a hand.

Schematics are really easy to read once you learn the basics, except
the German ones...esically the mid 60's German schematics.

Email me at dewdude(at)gmail.com and we'll hammer out some details.

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On 21 Jun 2005 13:23:24 -0700, "Chris" <cfoley1064@yahoo.com> wrote:

obliquez wrote:
I did attend classes, but for final year project, alot of information
are not in our syllabus. =( So i've gotta find it from other sources.

My teacher asked me to search the web instead. So that's why I'm here.

Anyway thanks, I need all the luck i can get.

Thank you John as well..

-smiles-

Hi. The Honeywell LLE sensor has a built-in LED and phototransistor.
Both of them are pointed out towards the lens, which is mounted so as
to come in contact with a clear liquid. When liquid contacts the
surface, some of the LED light which normally would be reflected back
to the phototransistor escapes into the liquid. This is sensed by the
phototransistor, which turns on. The LLE sensor operates on a 5VDC
supply, and has an open collector schmitt trigger output which can sink
up to 10mA at 25 degrees C, and 3 mA at 80C.

That makes complete sense, given the way they spec'd the output.
Thanks, Chris. My cursory reading of the data sheet left me absent
this detail of the open collector output. Where did you see it
explicitly mentioned?

The piezo beeper you've chosen has a self-oscillating circuit built in
(usually the tipoff is if the data sheet specifies a DC voltage vs.
current or sound output level).

Good point.

However, your piezo beeper is
specified as operating on 12VDC, which is a bit of a problem, unless
you happen to have both the +5 and +12VDC supplies handy. If I were
doing this, I'd use a 5VDC piezo beeper to save a lot of hassle. It's
always easier if you can use one power supply instead of two. But,
it's your project, and you know what's best. So...

Let's look at the driver and interface circuitry. I'm assuming you
want the beeper to go on when liquid comes in contact with the sensor
lens. That means you want something which will go ON when the sensor
output is sinking current. Since there's nothing in the datasheet
about the sensor output transistor being able to handle a higher
voltage than 5V (although many do), let's assume it can't.

I suppose it may be that they include a protection diode to the +5
rail on that output.

If you had
a spare inverting logic gate, you could do something like this (view in
fixed font or M$ Notepad):
`
` +12V
` +
` +5V +5V |
` + + / \
` | | (BZ1)
` Red| .-. \_/
` .---o---. | |10K |
` | | | | |
` | | '-' |
` | LLE | | |\ ___ |/
` | Sensoro--o--| >O--|___|- -| 2N3904
` | |Grn |/ 10K | |
` | | .-. |
` | | 10K| | |
` '---o---' | | |
` Blue| '-' |
` | | |
` | === ===
` === GND GND
` GND
`created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

Note that a pullup resistor is required at the output of the sensor to
give you your +5V/0V logic levels. The output is active low -- that
is, it goes to 0V when the sensor is ON. You reverse that with the
inverter. The output of the inverter then sources about 1/2 mA of
current into the base of the NPN transistor, which then turns on to
sink the 10mA or so for the piezo buzzer. This should do the job for
you.

Without knowing more, I'd tend to guess that the OP is supposed to do
this with BJTs and resistors.

If you don't happen to have any inverter logic gates handy (note that a
NAND or NOR gate can work just as well here), you'll have to use
another transistor to provide that inverting action:
`
` +12V +12V
` | +
` +5V +5V .-. |
` + + | |10K / \
` | | | | (BZ1)
` Red| .-. '-' \_/
` .---o---. | |10K | |
` | | | | o--. |
` | | '-' | | |
` | LLE | | ___ |/ | |/
` | Sensoro--o-|___|-| '-----o-| 2N3904
` | |Grn 10K |> | |
` | | | .-. |
` | | | 10K| | |
` '---o---' === | | |
` Blue| GND '-' |
` | | |
` | === ===
` === GND GND
` GND
`created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

You can see that when the first transistor turns ON (base current is
coming from the pullup because your sensor is OFF), it steals the base
current from the second transistor, which means your piezo buzzer will
be off. When the sensor turns ON, it prevents base current from
getting into the first transistor, so the other transistor is turned on
by the other pullup.

This isn't elegant, but it will work for you.
snip

How about this topology. I kind of like it:

: +12V
: |
: |
: / +12V
: \ R2 |
: / 47k |
: | |/e 2N3906
: +--------| Q2 PNP
: | |\c
: |/c 2N3904 |
: +5V +5V---| Q1 NPN |
: | |\e |
: Red | | |
: | | / \
: ,-------, / (BZ1)
: | | \ R1 \_/
: | LLE | / 22k |
: | Sensor| | |
: | |--------' |
: | | Green gnd
: '-------'
: |
: Blue |
: |
: gnd

Two fewer resistors, even. Make them both 22k, if two different
values is bothersome. And just nail Q1's base to the 5V wall and yank
down on its emitter. This will drive Q2's base just fine and turn on
the buzzer.

Jon

 

[John Popelish]

obliquez wrote:

I'm using a Honeywell lle sensor. LLE 105000 (Type 5) Mounts on the
inside. I intend to integrate the sensor into the handle of a mug.

It is required for me to include a driver circuit in my design. That's
what my teacher said. I heard that i can purchase a 3-24V circuit board
and get the right components, then connect the sensor and buzzer to it?
As in i get the circuit board and the right transistor and resistors?

Oh my, I know it's supposed to be really simple to understand, but i'm
not a very good student. =(

Thanks you guys for helping me out! =)

Yes the driver will be very simple. But the kind of driver needed
depends on whether your buzzer makes a tone when connected to DC
(contains and internal oscillator) or has to be driven by AC (is just
a transducer). Did you perform the test I described?

If your buzzer makes a tone when connected to a battery, then the
driver is just a single PNP transistor and a few resistors. If it
just clicks, then the driver has to be an oscillator that produces a
wave close to the resonant frequency of the buzzer, but us gated on
when a logic low (negative supply) voltage is applied from the sensor.

 

[John Larkin]

On 22 Jun 2005 08:30:18 -0700, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:

I was just thinking about core saturation and how it might be
detected/measured and I remembered something about current transformers
being ruined if they were allowed to saturate. Am I remembering
correctly? Previously I had been thinking that saturation was a
harmless event -- if currents were limited. Yes or no?

Thanks

You can magnetize a CT by running it without a burden resistor, and
that will subsequently mess up low-current accuracy. But it's easy to
demagnetize it and fix it.

In an extreme case, I guess you could arc it over or something, but
that's not common.

 

[John Popelish]

obliquez wrote:

Oh, thanks so much.. Frankly speaking, i don't really understand
everything you're saying but i get the gist of it. The circuits you
drew up for me, seems to be what my teacher is asking for. I will show
it to him tommorrow and see what he says.

If i can get this driver circuit part out of the way, i will have to go
on to the next part, which is to include a temperature sensor and a
tilt sensor.

So far, i can't find small enough sensors. The temp sensor is to sense
liquid temperatures. And the tilt sensor is supposed to deactivate the
liquid level sensor. So, when the mug is in a tilted position, even if
the liquid covers the lle sensor, the buzzer won't activate.

I think i'm very bad at explaining stuff. Let me try again.

What i am supposed to do, is to incoporate all these components in a
mug. Making it a smart mug.

The lle sensor, will go on when the liquid reaches a certain level.
Thus, will cause the buzzer to go on as well.

The tilt sensor is to deactivate the lle sensor, so that the buzzer
will not go on if the mug is in a tilted position. i.e, when it is
being washed, etc..

The temp sensor, if the liquid is too hot, the buzzer will sound. I'm
not clear about this, but i think i will need another buzzer for this.

I doubt you want multiple buzzers going off. I suspect this mug is an
excuse for you to use combinatorial logic (gates) to combine input
signals to produce output signals. AND gates produce a log high
output only if all inputs are highs. OR gates produce a logic high
output when any input is a logic high. NOT gates have only one input
and produce a logic output that is the opposite of its input. There
are also AND and OR gates that include a NOT function added to their
outputs, so these are called NAND and NOR gates, respectively.

I have yet to be able to find a suitably small temp and tilt sensor. I
thought i could use this for the temp sensor, but i can't find a
circuit diagram. Therefore, i can't tell if i can incoporate it into my
circuit.

http://tsdpl.com/MPT-PROBE.htm

If I were you, I would be searching through the thermistor section of
the catalog. Much cheaper and have lots bigger signal. They are not
linear, but for a threshold function, like this, that makes no difference.

Thanks to everyone for all your help! you are all very nice ppl -grinz-

 

[John Popelish]

obliquez wrote:

I learned abit about BJTs in my 1st year, but i'm afraid i've forgotten
most, if not all of what i have learnt. Because it was only a small
little part of a chapter of one of my modules. Lol

I will try to get back some of my old books from my friend and see if i
can read up on BJTs again. Is that what i need to know about?

Since verything has to be intergrated into a mug, i think that i can
only squeeze in one supply voltage, And it has to be in the form of
those flat round batteries. Maybe i can connect 2 or 3 flat batteries
in series or parallel?

thanks

Definitely series, because the sensor has a minimum supply voltage of

5 volts, and the buzzer needs about that much to be audible. 5 volts
is also a very useful voltage for amplifiers, comparators (that turn a
signal voltage into a logic state) and gates. This would take about 3
or 4 of those button cells.

 

[John Popelish]

galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:

I was just thinking about core saturation and how it might be
detected/measured and I remembered something about current transformers
being ruined if they were allowed to saturate. Am I remembering
correctly? Previously I had been thinking that saturation was a
harmless event -- if currents were limited. Yes or no?

Thanks

Core saturation is normally a reversible process.

 

[Tom Biasi]

<harrisonmarshall@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119459093.823630.243850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Hello,

This is pretty simple. I have a Samsung AC Adapter for my laptop
computer. I am using it for the first time in France and have been
plugging it into a standard 50 watt transformer to convert the
electricity from 220 to 110.

I notice however, that printed on the computer's AC Adapter is:

Input: 100-120V/200-240V ~ 1.6/0.8A 50/60Hz
Output: 16V ------3.75A

Is this designed to be able to be plugged in directly in both the U.S.
and in Europe?

I'd like to be using the one transformer that I have for something
else, so if I don't need to use it with my computer, that would be
great. But, I don't want to plug in the computer's power supply
directly without being sure that it will accept the 220v (obviously).

Any info would be appreciated.

Best!
HM

Hi,

Your supply was definitely designed to run on 220/50 or 120/60. How you make
the change is the question. Is there another power cord that fits the Euro
power?
Is there a switch on the unit?
Regards,
Tom

 

[Don Bruder]

In article <1119459093.823630.243850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
harrisonmarshall@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,

This is pretty simple. I have a Samsung AC Adapter for my laptop

It's simpler than you realize, I'm thinking

From what you say about the label, it's electrically good to go. Plug it
in directly (If it's physically compatible with french style sockets...
You may need some sort of adapter - blades to pins, pin/blade
position/number/orientation, etc - for that part), and it should "just
work".

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.

 

[Martin D. Bartsch]

On 22 Jun 2005 10:57:34 -0700, harrisonmarshall@gmail.com wrote:

But otherwise, electrically, its good to go?

There exist power adapters with a range from 90 to 250 V input, so if
it is marked on the unit it should work.

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On 21 Jun 2005 22:51:15 -0700, "obliquez" <obliquez@gmail.com> wrote:

I learned abit about BJTs in my 1st year, but i'm afraid i've forgotten
most, if not all of what i have learnt. Because it was only a small
little part of a chapter of one of my modules. Lol

I will try to get back some of my old books from my friend and see if i
can read up on BJTs again. Is that what i need to know about?

BJTs are "bipolar junction transistors" and are what is usually just
called a "transistor." However, they are often called BJTs in order
to differentiate them from other transistors, like JFETs and MOSFETs.
And yes, that's what you need to learn about.

Since verything has to be intergrated into a mug, i think that i can
only squeeze in one supply voltage, And it has to be in the form of
those flat round batteries. Maybe i can connect 2 or 3 flat batteries
in series or parallel?

This makes things tricky. Problem #1 is that your sensor is specified
at 5V +/- 5%. This means something between 4.75V and 5.25V. Not much
of a margin to work with, assuming that it will be battery chemistry
determining your voltage.

If you are talking about those lithium button batteries, they don't
provide much more than 1mA or so. And they are 3V, usually. So you'd
need two, but that would be too much voltage, anyway. Problems with
voltage and more problems with current delivery.

Not to mention that you will need to verify that your buzzer will work
at whatever single voltage you settle on.

I think this is going to be an issue you will need to put some thought
into and verify with your teacher. Are you _sure_ that you cannot use
an external supply? If it must be batteries, what has been used
before with success? How much space do you really have? Have you
made measurements of your volume and can you spell them out, here?

Jon

 

[John Popelish]

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

This makes things tricky. Problem #1 is that your sensor is specified
at 5V +/- 5%. This means something between 4.75V and 5.25V. Not much
of a margin to work with, assuming that it will be battery chemistry
determining your voltage.

The O.P. says this isa the sensor he is using, if I understand him
correctly:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/datasheet.asp?FAM=liquidlevel&PN=LLE105000

Is this the wrong one, or is the supply range 5 to 12 volts?

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:30:38 -0400, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

This makes things tricky. Problem #1 is that your sensor is specified
at 5V +/- 5%. This means something between 4.75V and 5.25V. Not much
of a margin to work with, assuming that it will be battery chemistry
determining your voltage.

The O.P. says this isa the sensor he is using, if I understand him
correctly:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/datasheet.asp?FAM=liquidlevel&PN=LLE105000

Is this the wrong one, or is the supply range 5 to 12 volts?

I don't know, anymore. I'd looked at his original link, which was:

http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/liquidlevel/100437-en.pdf#seahttp://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/liquidlevel/100437-en.pdf#search='honeywell%20lle%20sensor'

It clearly said that the power supply is 5V +/- 5%.

Later information has arrived, as the OP has now said that the device
is the 10500 one. The web site you note above is the same one I'd
already been to, as well. And it does say, 5V to 12V. But I can't
really tell if that is some kind of general table about the general
family, but where certain exact part numbers within that group might
be designed for various voltages, or ... what.

So I went to this page:

http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/vsg_compare.asp?FAM=LiquidLevelSG&ITEMLIST=140875,140876,140877

Here, it says 5V, again, for the LLE series!

I don't know. You tell me. I'm frankly confused.

Jon

 

[John Popelish]

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:

The O.P. says this isa the sensor he is using, if I understand him
correctly:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/datasheet.asp?FAM=liquidlevel&PN=LLE105000

Is this the wrong one, or is the supply range 5 to 12 volts?


I don't know, anymore. I'd looked at his original link, which was:


http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/liquidlevel/100437-en.pdf#seahttp://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/liquidlevel/100437-en.pdf#search='honeywell%20lle%20sensor'

That one locked up my browser.

It clearly said that the power supply is 5V +/- 5%.

Later information has arrived, as the OP has now said that the device
is the 10500 one. The web site you note above is the same one I'd
already been to, as well. And it does say, 5V to 12V. But I can't
really tell if that is some kind of general table about the general
family, but where certain exact part numbers within that group might
be designed for various voltages, or ... what.

So I went to this page:

http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/vsg_compare.asp?FAM=LiquidLevelSG&ITEMLIST=140875,140876,140877

Here, it says 5V, again, for the LLE series!

I don't know. You tell me. I'm frankly confused.

That makes two of us.

 

[Rod]

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In our last episode <john.doggett-CCD14D.18535122062005@news.charter.net>,
Bible John pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:

Freak.


Get. Help.

Amen to that one.....


Rod

--
John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye
had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from
henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM."

 

[Bible Bob]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:01:48 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In our last episode <john.doggett-CCD14D.18535122062005@news.charter.net>,
Bible John pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:

Freak.


Get. Help.

John,

In my earlier response I forgot to point out that others might not
agree with you.



Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net


BB

 

[Chris Thompson]

Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote in
news:john.doggett-CCD14D.18535122062005@news.charter.net:

You guys talk like you have had much abuse in your lives which
probably

Congratulations! You get a virtual puke award with your very first
sentence!

Chris
--
aa2186
Godwin'd by David Ford