Charge gel cell with car charger?

[John Fields]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:54:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:20qsi85cd3m4f18uhs253s4tilbeu28gs9@4ax.com...

Posted the same thing twice, huh?


Actually I was wondering if WLM is yet another flaky POS designed by you -
it sometimes jams up in the outbox, then sends it twice next time the app is
started.

---
Certainly if WLM was my creation it would work as advertised, as
everything I do does.

If it doesn't, for you, then I'd suspect cockpit error is the problem
and you should get in touch with Microsoft instead of whining about
your problems to me.

An easy solution for your problem would be for you to get a real
newsreader and blow off Microsoft, but how likely is that to happen
when all you want to do is fix the blame instead of the problem?

--
JF

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:02:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:rtosi81fiefb5ob9i0r6vqo2ki5cdhkgrt@4ax.com...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?


You're so scattered I wouldn't trust anything from you even if it "looked"
right!

---
So far, everything you thought "looked right" wasn't, so you're
certainly in no position to judge.
---

All that weed you keep smoking has given you dopers crott.

---
You seem to be talking about something you know nothing about and
issuing edicts based on fear.

Do you have any experience with marijuana?
--
JF

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:41:03 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:44:16 -0500, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


John Fields wrote:


Wow, with your super-quick response, you must really want me to notice
you and have you suck my dick or have me fuck you up the ass...

Sorry, Charlie...


One of your fetishes?

Jamie


---
No, just conjecture, but it's interesting how, when the conversation
turns lewd, you people are drawn to it like a moth to a flame.

Well, a lot of us love to watch a circus side show..

---
Especially, when for a couple of bucks, you can go backstage and watch
how a scantilly clad maiden escapes death?

--
JF

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jamie wrote:

Well, a lot of us love to watch a circus side show..

AKA: The Philbrick family reunion.

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:da3ti8t3271hgl1tumgdhk9nh46mjrfc32@4ax.com...

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:54:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:20qsi85cd3m4f18uhs253s4tilbeu28gs9@4ax.com...

Posted the same thing twice, huh?


Actually I was wondering if WLM is yet another flaky POS designed by you -
it sometimes jams up in the outbox, then sends it twice next time the app
is
started.

---
Certainly if WLM was my creation it would work as advertised, as
everything I do does.

If it doesn't, for you, then I'd suspect cockpit error is the problem
and you should get in touch with Microsoft instead of whining about
your problems to me.

You were whining about the double post - I told you why that happened - now
you're doing yet more whining!!!

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:005ti8teodnr7f85qiknk5sqn420iec20o@4ax.com...

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:02:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:rtosi81fiefb5ob9i0r6vqo2ki5cdhkgrt@4ax.com...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?


You're so scattered I wouldn't trust anything from you even if it "looked"
right!

---
So far, everything you thought "looked right" wasn't, so you're
certainly in no position to judge.
---

All that weed you keep smoking has given you dopers crott.

---
You seem to be talking about something you know nothing about and
issuing edicts based on fear.

From the scattered states I've seen dopers like you get in, I'm very glad I
know nothing about it.

 

[Ian Field]

"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...

On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.

When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the filament is
high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just when high
charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery terminal voltage
approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the inherent PTC characteristic
of the filament means as it cools its resistance falls, its much less
effective as a current limiter - just when the (possibly overcharging)
battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging - but
better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him as a
homework excercise.

 

[mike]

On 2/28/2013 9:23 AM, Ian Field wrote:

"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the
filament is high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just
when high charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery
terminal voltage approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the
inherent PTC characteristic of the filament means as it cools its
resistance falls, its much less effective as a current limiter - just
when the (possibly overcharging) battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging -
but better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him
as a homework excercise.

So, you're saying that a light bulb can work very well for current charging
as long as you pick the voltage and the bulb correctly.

Also, a light bulb can work well to limit the maximum charge current
to stay within the limits of the battery and charger, even in the event
of shorted cells or other faults...as long as you pick the voltage
and bulb correctly.

You can do better. You can abuse any charge method.
IMHO, the bang for the buck of a light bulb current limiter is
second to none when properly applied.

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:12:44 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:005ti8teodnr7f85qiknk5sqn420iec20o@4ax.com...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:02:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:rtosi81fiefb5ob9i0r6vqo2ki5cdhkgrt@4ax.com...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?


You're so scattered I wouldn't trust anything from you even if it "looked"
right!

---
So far, everything you thought "looked right" wasn't, so you're
certainly in no position to judge.
---

All that weed you keep smoking has given you dopers crott.

---
You seem to be talking about something you know nothing about and
issuing edicts based on fear.


From the scattered states I've seen dopers like you get in, I'm very glad I
know nothing about it.

---
Ignorance is bliss and, scattered, to you, seems to be your fearful
evaluation of someone functioning on a higher plane which isn't within
your grasp.

As we often say, "Reality is for those who can't handle drugs."

--
JF

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:09:46 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:da3ti8t3271hgl1tumgdhk9nh46mjrfc32@4ax.com...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:54:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:20qsi85cd3m4f18uhs253s4tilbeu28gs9@4ax.com...

Posted the same thing twice, huh?


Actually I was wondering if WLM is yet another flaky POS designed by you -
it sometimes jams up in the outbox, then sends it twice next time the app
is
started.

---
Certainly if WLM was my creation it would work as advertised, as
everything I do does.

If it doesn't, for you, then I'd suspect cockpit error is the problem
and you should get in touch with Microsoft instead of whining about
your problems to me.

You were whining about the double post

---
Nope, just commenting on its having been posted twice by your nervous
little fingers.
---

- I told you why that happened -

---
Yes, you did, but I've seen no other double posts from you that
support your position that "See what Microsoft made me do?" is valid.

Ergo, your blaming Microsoft for your inability to use their tools in
a workmanlike manner puts the onus on you to prove that their tools
are defective and, if you can't, brands you as at least deluded, or
one step up from that, an objective liar.

In the end, if you're serious and Microsoft gives you heartburn, you'd
get a non-Microsoft usenet client more suited to your vagaries.

You won't, of course, since you'd rather stay in the limelight and
cast aspersions.

--
JF

 

[Ian Field]

"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgoao8$g4j$1@dont-email.me...

On 2/28/2013 9:23 AM, Ian Field wrote:


"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many
big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the
filament is high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just
when high charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery
terminal voltage approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the
inherent PTC characteristic of the filament means as it cools its
resistance falls, its much less effective as a current limiter - just
when the (possibly overcharging) battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging -
but better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to
hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him
as a homework excercise.

So, you're saying that a light bulb can work very well for current
charging
as long as you pick the voltage and the bulb correctly.

No - I didn't make any specific comments about bulb rating at all.

Also, a light bulb can work well to limit the maximum charge current
to stay within the limits of the battery and charger, even in the event
of shorted cells or other faults...as long as you pick the voltage
and bulb correctly.

If you'd bothered at all to read what I said - I made it clear that the
current curve vs filament temperature is pretty much the opposite of what
would be ideal for charging the battery.

In the context of the thread so far, typically an unregulated car type
charger would be used on a low Ah gel battery - the charger wouldn't need
any protection, but as the battery terminal voltage reaches and/or exceeds
the full level, the filament voltage is at a minimum, cold filament = low
resistance - so not much protection for the battery.

I merely conceded that in the absence of a float capable charger, its better
than nothing.

You can do better. You can abuse any charge method.
IMHO, the bang for the buck of a light bulb current limiter is
second to none when properly applied.

On reflection - you're probably not the best choice to draw pictures so JF
can understand.

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:28:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgoao8$g4j$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/28/2013 9:23 AM, Ian Field wrote:


"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many
big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the
filament is high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just
when high charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery
terminal voltage approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the
inherent PTC characteristic of the filament means as it cools its
resistance falls, its much less effective as a current limiter - just
when the (possibly overcharging) battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging -
but better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to
hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him
as a homework excercise.

So, you're saying that a light bulb can work very well for current
charging
as long as you pick the voltage and the bulb correctly.

No - I didn't make any specific comments about bulb rating at all.

Also, a light bulb can work well to limit the maximum charge current
to stay within the limits of the battery and charger, even in the event
of shorted cells or other faults...as long as you pick the voltage
and bulb correctly.

If you'd bothered at all to read what I said - I made it clear that the
current curve vs filament temperature is pretty much the opposite of what
would be ideal for charging the battery.

In the context of the thread so far, typically an unregulated car type
charger would be used on a low Ah gel battery - the charger wouldn't need
any protection, but as the battery terminal voltage reaches and/or exceeds
the full level, the filament voltage is at a minimum, cold filament = low
resistance - so not much protection for the battery.

I merely conceded that in the absence of a float capable charger, its better
than nothing.


You can do better. You can abuse any charge method.
IMHO, the bang for the buck of a light bulb current limiter is
second to none when properly applied.

On reflection - you're probably not the best choice to draw pictures so JF
can understand.

---
Open mouth, insert foot.

I think you've just alienated a well meaning and knowledgeable
potential ally...

--
JF

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:24kvi8te55i1miuabb18n664slbqsu5srg@4ax.com...

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:28:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgoao8$g4j$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/28/2013 9:23 AM, Ian Field wrote:


"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no
matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current
doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many
big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the
filament is high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just
when high charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery
terminal voltage approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the
inherent PTC characteristic of the filament means as it cools its
resistance falls, its much less effective as a current limiter - just
when the (possibly overcharging) battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging -
but better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to
hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him
as a homework excercise.

So, you're saying that a light bulb can work very well for current
charging
as long as you pick the voltage and the bulb correctly.

No - I didn't make any specific comments about bulb rating at all.

Also, a light bulb can work well to limit the maximum charge current
to stay within the limits of the battery and charger, even in the event
of shorted cells or other faults...as long as you pick the voltage
and bulb correctly.

If you'd bothered at all to read what I said - I made it clear that the
current curve vs filament temperature is pretty much the opposite of what
would be ideal for charging the battery.

In the context of the thread so far, typically an unregulated car type
charger would be used on a low Ah gel battery - the charger wouldn't need
any protection, but as the battery terminal voltage reaches and/or exceeds
the full level, the filament voltage is at a minimum, cold filament = low
resistance - so not much protection for the battery.

I merely conceded that in the absence of a float capable charger, its
better
than nothing.


You can do better. You can abuse any charge method.
IMHO, the bang for the buck of a light bulb current limiter is
second to none when properly applied.

On reflection - you're probably not the best choice to draw pictures so JF
can understand.

---
Open mouth, insert foot.

I call it as I see it - which any way you look at it, is better than the
senseless twaddle you spout.

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:23:50 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the filament is
high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just when high
charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery terminal voltage
approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the inherent PTC characteristic
of the filament means as it cools its resistance falls, its much less
effective as a current limiter - just when the (possibly overcharging)
battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging - but
better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him as a
homework excercise.

---
You didn't even "bother" to cite an example and the math required to
prove your point.

--
JF

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:14:10 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:24kvi8te55i1miuabb18n664slbqsu5srg@4ax.com...
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:28:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgoao8$g4j$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/28/2013 9:23 AM, Ian Field wrote:


"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no
matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current
doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many
big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the
filament is high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just
when high charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery
terminal voltage approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the
inherent PTC characteristic of the filament means as it cools its
resistance falls, its much less effective as a current limiter - just
when the (possibly overcharging) battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging -
but better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to
hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him
as a homework excercise.

So, you're saying that a light bulb can work very well for current
charging
as long as you pick the voltage and the bulb correctly.

No - I didn't make any specific comments about bulb rating at all.

Also, a light bulb can work well to limit the maximum charge current
to stay within the limits of the battery and charger, even in the event
of shorted cells or other faults...as long as you pick the voltage
and bulb correctly.

If you'd bothered at all to read what I said - I made it clear that the
current curve vs filament temperature is pretty much the opposite of what
would be ideal for charging the battery.

In the context of the thread so far, typically an unregulated car type
charger would be used on a low Ah gel battery - the charger wouldn't need
any protection, but as the battery terminal voltage reaches and/or exceeds
the full level, the filament voltage is at a minimum, cold filament = low
resistance - so not much protection for the battery.

I merely conceded that in the absence of a float capable charger, its
better
than nothing.


You can do better. You can abuse any charge method.
IMHO, the bang for the buck of a light bulb current limiter is
second to none when properly applied.

On reflection - you're probably not the best choice to draw pictures so JF
can understand.

---
Open mouth, insert foot.


I call it as I see it

---
The blind looking for equity?
That's your first mistake.
--
JF

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
newsflvi8tv3272d598ljc3fht5tkk29i2i8q@4ax.com...

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:23:50 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:kgm2o9$pn9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Fields wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:17:04 -0000, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields"<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:mcbqi8t00ur6s6sk6kmuskjtkpg28fegtm@4ax.com...

My request was about having you describe the dynamics of a
light-bulb-in-series-with-a-battery current limiter which, no matter
how loudly or how long you squeal excuses about why you can't, you
can't, of course.

The bulb trick isn't that great because of its pronounced PTC
characteristic - as the filament voltage decreases the current doesn't
decrease in due proportion.

---
???

If a you want the current to change linearly with voltage, then a
simple resistor will do the trick so, obviously, you don't understand
how the bulb trick works.
---

I did try to dumb it down for you - I do hope I didn't use too many
big
words for you!

---
The words are no problem but it seems, for you, the theory _is_.

Would you like me to explain how the bulb trick works in terms even
you could understand?

I understand how the light bulb works, but I'm very interested in
hearing YOUR explanation.


When the battery terminal voltage is low and the drop across the filament
is
high; the bulb does its best job of current limiting - just when high
charging current would be no bad thing. As the battery terminal voltage
approaches or exceeds the required voltage, the inherent PTC
characteristic
of the filament means as it cools its resistance falls, its much less
effective as a current limiter - just when the (possibly overcharging)
battery needs it most.

The bulb as a current limiter is less than ideal for battery charging -
but
better than nothing if you don't have a float capable charger to hand.

I didn't bother to dumb it down for JF - you can draw pictures for him as
a
homework excercise.

---
You didn't even "bother" to cite an example and the math required to
prove your point.

Its a less than optimum method - I'm hardly likely to go out of my way to
encourage its use.

With the price of gel batteries, its cheaper in the long run to use a float
capable charger - especially as so many discount stores have them at very
reasonable prices.

I've learned to expect advice from you that seems like a cheap deal - but
works out costly in the end!

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:37:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I've learned to expect advice from you that seems like a cheap deal - but
works out costly in the end!

---
Without at least one example, the expectation is that that's just
another of your senseless arguments.

--
JF