CFL on steroids any risk?

[Tim R]

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss
although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if it's going to explode or break during use.

 

On Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:26:21 UTC+1, Tim R wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss

0 results

> although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

So you have a non-growing use for it, but no-one else has?

> Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

nothing beyond the usual minor risks of lamps.

> During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if it's going to explode or break during use.

why do you think it would it explode? Seems an odd idea.
Break...all lamps do if whacked.


NT

 

[John Robertson]

On 2019/05/23 10:26 a.m., Tim R wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss
although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if it's going to explode or break during use.

CFLs do not last long when inverted, other than that I would assume it
is OK if made with the usual UL/CSA requirements...

Mind you this is from Amazon and there is no regulation there at all,
total Chinese crap (and dangerously so) is my experience in several cases.

John :-#)#

 

[Tim R]

On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 11:28:40 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:26:21 UTC+1, Tim R wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss

0 results

although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

So you have a non-growing use for it, but no-one else has?

Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

nothing beyond the usual minor risks of lamps.

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if it's going to explode or break during use.

why do you think it would it explode? Seems an odd idea.
Break...all lamps do if whacked.


NT

I can think of lots of nongrowlight uses for a light that bright, like in a work area, athletics, etc.; just it doesn't seem very "residential" and the other contents of the bag gave clues to the origin.

No, it's just that I've heard of CFLs failing catastrophically, but I've never even seen one this big. The basement ceiling fixture is the simple one socket ceramic plate, no globe or shield, so it will mount base up.

 

On Thursday, 23 May 2019 18:43:15 UTC+1, Tim R wrote:

On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 11:28:40 AM UTC-4, tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:26:21 UTC+1, Tim R wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss

0 results

although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

So you have a non-growing use for it, but no-one else has?

Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

nothing beyond the usual minor risks of lamps.

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if it's going to explode or break during use.

why do you think it would it explode? Seems an odd idea.
Break...all lamps do if whacked.


NT

I can think of lots of nongrowlight uses for a light that bright, like in a work area, athletics, etc.; just it doesn't seem very "residential" and the other contents of the bag gave clues to the origin.

Well I use lots of lighting watts now & then in a residential setting, and there's no lack of other people that do too.

> No, it's just that I've heard of CFLs failing catastrophically, but I've never even seen one this big. The basement ceiling fixture is the simple one socket ceramic plate, no globe or shield, so it will mount base up.

that won't help it last.


NT

 

[Tim R]

On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 7:25:11 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
The basement ceiling fixture is the simple one socket ceramic plate, no globe or shield, so it will mount base up.

that won't help it last.


NT

So it should really be used base down?

It occurs to me that the majority of the light may be emitted sideways, but if I mount it sideways then half the light goes up. (I teach handbell ringing, and the sound comes off the sides of the bell, with very little coming from the end, so I coach my ringers in holding the bell so the sound reaches the audience.)

 

On Friday, 24 May 2019 01:14:38 UTC+1, Tim R wrote:

On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 7:25:11 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote:

The basement ceiling fixture is the simple one socket ceramic plate, no globe or shield, so it will mount base up.

that won't help it last.

So it should really be used base down?

yup. Not sure about sideways.

> It occurs to me that the majority of the light may be emitted sideways, but if I mount it sideways then half the light goes up. (I teach handbell ringing, and the sound comes off the sides of the bell, with very little coming from the end, so I coach my ringers in holding the bell so the sound reaches the audience.)

Yes, more sideways than end on. In practice it doesn't seem to create problems though. LEDs are more directional.


NT

 

[Jeff Urban]

I don't care what you grow, bottom line is that if you give it the voltage it wants it should be safe. If it is a bad design then I can't say.

Actually, anyone out there interested in growing smoke - it is almost not worth it now. It is legal to grow in many places now and that means those people will not be buying. Plus now they got vapes and those are efficient and not that easy to make, and they will win a good piece of the market.

I tried it back when it was worth it and all I got out of it was junk and almost ten grand in utility bills. We didn't really have LEDS or CCFLs then, I had sodium and nickel hydrydes, 1,200 watts of them and then about 20,000 BTU to cool the whole mess down.

I could heaver done much better things with that money.

One of the things with LED and CCFL is that I am concerned about their spectral output. You need UV and all that, and that also may include people. Some people just don't like florescent tubes, old tubes were phosphors, so are CCFLs and the newer LEDs. (that's why the can use them to backlight an LCD screen now)

Some people just really like incandescents.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 07:26:18 -0700 (PDT), Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>
wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one
of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss
although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else
you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

I have a 100 watt equivalent CFL light in a hallway. It's mounted
upside-down which is a good way shorten its life. When it blows, I'll
replace it with a warm LED light.

>Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

You haven't described the fixture. If it's enclosed, particularly in
the ceiling, you run the risk of either starting a fire, blowing up
the CFL light from overheating, or both. It's strictly a matter of
ventilation and heat build up. Buy an IR thermometer and do whatever
it takes to keep it cool, including adding a small (quiet) fan.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=ir+thermometer+gun&tbm=isch>

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this
kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if
it's going to explode or break during use.

It probably won't explode, but might get hot enough to set fire to
anything nearby that's flammable. I had one CFL lamp on my desk belch
fire for about 2 seconds from a small hole in the "ceramic" base. If
there had been anything nearby that could burn, it would have started
a fire.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=exploding+compact+fluorescent+bulbs>

If you're into indoor agriculture, I suggest you look into LED grow
lights and read something on how they work.
[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=LED+grow+lights&tbm=isch>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Saturday, 25 May 2019 21:42:30 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2019 07:26:18 -0700 (PDT), Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com
wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one
of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss
although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else
you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

I have a 100 watt equivalent CFL light in a hallway. It's mounted
upside-down which is a good way shorten its life. When it blows, I'll
replace it with a warm LED light.

Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

You haven't described the fixture. If it's enclosed, particularly in
the ceiling, you run the risk of either starting a fire, blowing up
the CFL light from overheating, or both. It's strictly a matter of
ventilation and heat build up. Buy an IR thermometer and do whatever
it takes to keep it cool, including adding a small (quiet) fan.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ir+thermometer+gun&tbm=isch

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this
kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if
it's going to explode or break during use.

It probably won't explode, but might get hot enough to set fire to
anything nearby that's flammable. I had one CFL lamp on my desk belch
fire for about 2 seconds from a small hole in the "ceramic" base. If
there had been anything nearby that could burn, it would have started
a fire.
https://www.google.com/search?q=exploding+compact+fluorescent+bulbs

If you're into indoor agriculture, I suggest you look into LED grow
lights and read something on how they work.
[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?
https://www.google.com/search?q=LED+grow+lights&tbm=isch

CFLs don't explode or start fires. One thing I've encountered are many people who describe events that are obviously not explosions as explosions.

Green plants absorb & use red & blue light. Green light, when growing, is wasted.


NT

 

[Tim R]

On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 4:42:30 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you're into indoor agriculture, I suggest you look into LED grow
lights and read something on how they work.
[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?

I'm not into indoor gardening and doubt I ever will be - not that many years left to experiment.

In the 70s I did an indoor garden for a season. It did very well with four foot fluourescents, the standard T12 that was in use back then. I think I used six tubes, four cool white and two warm white, for the balance.

I've read about LED grow lights and it all looked like advertising hype with no science behind it. Perhaps there have been some advances. I've been told the illegal growers mostly used metal halide fixtures, not something I'd want in my house.

 

[Terry Schwartz]

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 12:01:46 PM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 25 May 2019 21:42:30 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2019 07:26:18 -0700 (PDT), Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com
wrote:

I got a grab bag of CFLs cheap at a thrift store, and one
of them is a Maxlite 32W that looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=maxlite+growight&ref=nb_sb_noss
although it doesn't say growlight, but I don't know why else
you would have one. I've never seen a super CFL that size.

I have a 100 watt equivalent CFL light in a hallway. It's mounted
upside-down which is a good way shorten its life. When it blows, I'll
replace it with a warm LED light.

Is there any risk to running one of these in a basement ceiling fixture?

You haven't described the fixture. If it's enclosed, particularly in
the ceiling, you run the risk of either starting a fire, blowing up
the CFL light from overheating, or both. It's strictly a matter of
ventilation and heat build up. Buy an IR thermometer and do whatever
it takes to keep it cool, including adding a small (quiet) fan.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ir+thermometer+gun&tbm=isch

During the winter I do my morning wakeup under bright light, this
kind of lamp might be easier than my current setup. But not if
it's going to explode or break during use.

It probably won't explode, but might get hot enough to set fire to
anything nearby that's flammable. I had one CFL lamp on my desk belch
fire for about 2 seconds from a small hole in the "ceramic" base. If
there had been anything nearby that could burn, it would have started
a fire.
https://www.google.com/search?q=exploding+compact+fluorescent+bulbs

If you're into indoor agriculture, I suggest you look into LED grow
lights and read something on how they work.
[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?
https://www.google.com/search?q=LED+grow+lights&tbm=isch

CFLs don't explode or start fires. One thing I've encountered are many people who describe events that are obviously not explosions as explosions.

Green plants absorb & use red & blue light. Green light, when growing, is wasted.


NT

I had a CFL start on fire. It was mounted base up in a can fixture. Luckily I was in the room at the time, or it might have taken down the entire house.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 27 May 2019 15:54:21 -0700 (PDT), Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>
wrote:

On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 4:42:30 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
If you're into indoor agriculture, I suggest you look into LED grow
lights and read something on how they work.
[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?

I'm not into indoor gardening and doubt I ever will be - not that
many years left to experiment.

Not a problem if you don't inhale.

In the 70s I did an indoor garden for a season. It did very well
with four foot fluourescents, the standard T12 that was in use back
then. I think I used six tubes, four cool white and two warm white,
for the balance.

At the time, the authorities were monitoring household electric bills.
Any sudden and stable rise in consumption implied that the household
was using artificial lighting to grow something.

I've read about LED grow lights and it all looked like advertising
hype with no science behind it. Perhaps there have been some advances.

Is NASA a sufficiently credible source?
"Sole-Source Lighting for Controlled-Environment Agriculture"
<https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20150009399>
There's been quite a bit of research on agriculture in space and in
non-solar environments.

Try searching Google Scholar for research reports:
<https://scholar.google.com>
For example:
<https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_vis=1&q=LED+grow+light+agriculture&btnG=>

I've been told the illegal growers mostly used metal halide fixtures,
not something I'd want in my house.

It's now legal to grow marijuana in California. Much of the indoor
and underground farms have moved outdoors.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 26 May 2019 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 25 May 2019 21:42:30 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?
https://www.google.com/search?q=LED+grow+lights&tbm=isch

Green plants absorb & use red & blue light. Green light, when growing, is wasted.

Close enough but not quite complete. We see objects by the
wavelengths (colors) the object does NOT absorb, but does reflect.
Plants are generally green and therefore do NOT absorb green
wavelengths. Therefore, wasting power generating light in the green
part of the spectrum is largely wasted on plants.

Or so I thought.
"Sole-Source Lighting for Controlled-Environment Agriculture"
<https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150009399.pdf>
From a summary of the above article, it seems that plants do find a
little green light useful:
<https://advancedledlights.com/blog/technology/nasa-research-optimum-light-wavelengths-plant-growth/>
Green Light (500 - 600 nm) was once thought not to be necessary
for plants, but recent studies have discovered this wavelength
penetrates through thick top canopies to support the leaves in
the lower canopy.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Tim R]

Thanks for the links, and the google scholar reference.

Interesting stuff.

I guess I probably can't buy high powered blue and red LED lamps at Home Depot. I guess I could test a high watt LED bulb over a plant some time, something legal of course.

I'm no longer worried about my super CFL exploding. I got my thermometer out to test it, and................it didn't work. The bulb I mean. The other lamps in the bag work okay, so I didn't get totally taken, but I was looking forward to seeing a miniature sun in my basement.

 

On Tuesday, 28 May 2019 01:14:10 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 27 May 2019 15:54:21 -0700 (PDT), Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com
wrote:

At the time, the authorities were monitoring household electric bills.
Any sudden and stable rise in consumption implied that the household
was using artificial lighting to grow something.

Now the technique is to fly over with IR imagine camera, and see hot lofts.

I've read about LED grow lights and it all looked like advertising
hype with no science behind it. Perhaps there have been some advances.

Is NASA a sufficiently credible source?
"Sole-Source Lighting for Controlled-Environment Agriculture"
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20150009399
There's been quite a bit of research on agriculture in space and in
non-solar environments.

Try searching Google Scholar for research reports:
https://scholar.google.com
For example:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_vis=1&q=LED+grow+light+agriculture&btnG=

I've been told the illegal growers mostly used metal halide fixtures,
not something I'd want in my house.

AIUI LP sodium are still more efficient, but not spectrally complete, so not suitable as the sole light source.


NT

 

On Tuesday, 28 May 2019 01:23:19 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 26 May 2019 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 25 May 2019 21:42:30 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

[Quiz] Why are plants green, but LED grow lights produce very little
green light?
https://www.google.com/search?q=LED+grow+lights&tbm=isch

Green plants absorb & use red & blue light. Green light, when growing, is wasted.

Close enough but not quite complete. We see objects by the
wavelengths (colors) the object does NOT absorb, but does reflect.
Plants are generally green and therefore do NOT absorb green
wavelengths. Therefore, wasting power generating light in the green
part of the spectrum is largely wasted on plants.

Or so I thought.
"Sole-Source Lighting for Controlled-Environment Agriculture"
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150009399.pdf
From a summary of the above article, it seems that plants do find a
little green light useful:
https://advancedledlights.com/blog/technology/nasa-research-optimum-light-wavelengths-plant-growth/
Green Light (500 - 600 nm) was once thought not to be necessary
for plants, but recent studies have discovered this wavelength
penetrates through thick top canopies to support the leaves in
the lower canopy.

If you're growing at home, the green is nearly all wasted as little gets absorbed. It therefore doesn't make sense to produce it - subject to an assortment of conditions, eg if you want white light for other reasons.


NT

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Some basics:

a) ALL LED lamps should be used base-down unless otherwise marked. Yes, there are LED lamps designed for horizontal, vertical, base-up and base-down applications. But if UNMARKED, base-down only.
b) The driver (what is in the base) emits heat. Approximately 80% of all the heat generated by the lamp. The other 20% is spread throughout the emitters and in terms of 'feel' will be negligible.
c) Keep in mind that an LED lamp, on average, makes about 150 - 200 lumens per watt. Let's use 200 for this discussion.
d) This lamp will make very roughly 6,400 lumens, and about 26 watts in heat at the base. Note that the 10,000 lumens advertised is what is known in the industry as "Flash" lumens - the first 3 seconds that power is applied to the LEDs for the first time - and then only.
e) A typical incandescent lamp produces about 17 lumens per watt these days.. But heat is emitted across the entire envelope, not concentrated in the base as with CFL or LED lamps.
f) Hence, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and children of all ages - BASE DOWN unless marked otherwise. AND!!! the lamp base rating should be observed as compared to actual light delivered.
g) Meaning - if a base is rated for "60 watts", an ~1.100-lumen lamp should be pretty much the limit of what is installed in it, whether incandescent, CFL or LED.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Tuesday, May 28, 2019 at 2:13:06 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> If you're growing at home, the green is nearly all wasted as little gets absorbed. It therefore doesn't make sense to produce it - subject to an assortment of conditions, eg if you want white light for other reasons.

LED lamps these days may be controlled for spectrum to a remarkably fine degree. I work in, but not for, a hospital, and we, as the landlord are relamping approximately 1,000,000 s.f. of space including everything from ORs through research labs to animal, bacterial and plant facilities. You may bet, very safely, that in many of the labs and procedure rooms, CRI, Kelvin and Color are critical at many levels.

Yet, we are using perhaps two different basic lamps throughout with CRI, Kelvin & Color being controlled primarily via the drivers, not the emitters. Not the Kelvin and Color are very nearly, but not quite the same thing - and the critical parameter is CRI (Color Rendering Index).

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 8:14:10 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

At the time, the authorities were monitoring household electric bills.
Any sudden and stable rise in consumption implied that the household
was using artificial lighting to grow something.

And sometimes you can discover the same with just some basic observational skills:

https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03194/haarlem2_3194129b.jpg