CBO sees $3.7 trillion deficit in 2020 as debt exceeds size

For fiscal year 2020, CBO's early look at the fiscal outlook shows the following:

The federal budget deficit is projected to be $3.7 trillion.

Federal debt held by the public is projected to be 101 percent of GDP by the end of the fiscal year.

To develop a preliminary view of the deficit and thus of federal borrowing, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic-related legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. CBO made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and revenues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook since January, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecast.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335

 

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:14:47 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

For fiscal year 2020, CBO's early look at the fiscal outlook shows the following:

The federal budget deficit is projected to be $3.7 trillion.

Federal debt held by the public is projected to be 101 percent of GDP by the end of the fiscal year.

To develop a preliminary view of the deficit and thus of federal borrowing, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic-related legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. CBO made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and revenues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook since January, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecast.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

They used to challenge one another with billion-dollar antes. Now it's
trillions.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 11:14:53 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

For fiscal year 2020, CBO's early look at the fiscal outlook shows the following:

The federal budget deficit is projected to be $3.7 trillion.

Federal debt held by the public is projected to be 101 percent of GDP by the end of the fiscal year.

To develop a preliminary view of the deficit and thus of federal borrowing, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic-related legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. CBO made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and revenues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook since January, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecast..

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335

Just as we did in 2008/9 we are going to spend a lot of federal money to keep individuals and companies solvent and the economy moving. So the deficit will be very high in 2020. To keep from having such a high deficit in 2021 we will probably need to undo the tax cuts to the wealthy.

At some point we will need to reduce the debt. I guess Mitch has an idea about that. What if the feds declare bankruptcy? Why should the citizens keep bailing out the federal government?

Yeah, Mitch knows what he is talking about. Let's follow Mitch and just void all that debt? Oh, wait, that's not exactly how bankruptcy works is it? We'd have to go to court and determine which creditors we *could* pay off and do so by liquidating assets like federal buildings, national parks, natural resource rights... We likely could pay off the debt entirely, but we would be a much poorer country then.

It's all Walmart's fault. They keep selling cheap stuff from China. Boycott Walmart and buy American.

Oh, yeah, boycott Target, K-mart and everyone else since they all sell cheap stuff from China.

Also, pass a law forbidding importation of foreign oil. Then we'd have a market for US shale oil at $50 a barrel.

Let the Chinese have the super cheap Russian and Saudi oil. We'll show them!!!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 12:33:57 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:14:47 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

For fiscal year 2020, CBO's early look at the fiscal outlook shows the following:

The federal budget deficit is projected to be $3.7 trillion.

Federal debt held by the public is projected to be 101 percent of GDP by the end of the fiscal year.

To develop a preliminary view of the deficit and thus of federal borrowing, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic-related legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. CBO made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and revenues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook since January, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecast.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335


Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

They used to challenge one another with billion-dollar antes. Now it's
trillions.

One thing every member of Congress has in common with Trump is they were given an office by public election.

One thing every member of Congress has separating them from Trump is they were elected by the majority popular vote will of the people.

I would say democracy is working pretty well in this country. I'd say we did a poor job of implementing the part about electing a President which could stand some fixing.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

 

[Flyguy]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now..

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so..

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:21:24 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades..
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

What percentage of federal taxes were paid by the 10% income earners in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains which are not "income".

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?

We already have welfare for the poor. Do we really need it for the rich?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:55:00 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:29 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.


Suppose, just for example, that China decides to sell bonds at 5%
interest. The US would have to pay 5% to refinance the national debt.
Just the interest would be over a trillion a year.

Yes, that would be very bad. Good thing the Chinese don't want to pay a trillion a year for debt they don't need.

Actually, your premise is faulty because it ignores the markets for bonds. But whatever.


> There's no way to tax ourselves out of that.

Do you understand that the interest is not paid in monthly installments??? Federal bonds aren't an auto loan.

All the fat cats would
just take their money and leave the country, as many already have. The
only solution would be to print money and essentially renege on the
debt, namely steal all the savings in the country and depreciate the
dollar too.

If by fat cats, you mean yourself, I would happily say, Goodbye!. Unfortunately most of the people who think like you aren't fat cats. The fat cats who support the same issues that you do are doing it ot put money in their own pockets. They aren't going anywhere. Too bad. This would be such a nicer country if the extremists left. But then where would they be welcome?


> Of course, our Chinese friends would never do that to us.

Do what, put themselves bigly in debt? No, not very likely.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:29 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

Suppose, just for example, that China decides to sell bonds at 5%
interest. The US would have to pay 5% to refinance the national debt.
Just the interest would be over a trillion a year.

There's no way to tax ourselves out of that. All the fat cats would
just take their money and leave the country, as many already have. The
only solution would be to print money and essentially renege on the
debt, namely steal all the savings in the country and depreciate the
dollar too.

Of course, our Chinese friends would never do that to us.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:46:10 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:21:24 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

What percentage of federal taxes were paid by the 10% income earners in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains which are not "income".

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?

No. Corporations don't pay any 'Corporate Taxes' It is just a way to tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:41:56 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:46:10 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?


No. Corporations don't pay any 'Corporate Taxes' It is just a way to tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.

I like the way you side step the issue. What you fail to understand is that lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pockets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering their taxes only serves to increase their profits.

They only lower their prices if there is more competition and their market share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors... which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.

I would give you examples of cases to illustrate this, but you won't believe anything I write anyway so why bother?

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Flyguy]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 3:46:10 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:21:24 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

What percentage of federal taxes were paid by the 10% income earners in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains which are not "income".

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?

We already have welfare for the poor. Do we really need it for the rich?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

News flash: income taxes are taxes assessed on INCOME. Heaven help us if they even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and income are not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, leaving no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were paid by the top 10% of earners in 2015.

Corporations don't pay any taxes: their CUSTOMERS do. ALL taxes paid by corporations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.

No, undoing the tax cuts would HAMMER the economy, which is hanging on by a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in the next few quarters, anyhow?

I don't call paying 70% of ALL federal taxes welfare. That is just another liberal lie.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 11:14:00 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:40:59 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:41:56 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:46:10 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?


No. Corporations don't pay any 'Corporate Taxes' It is just a way to tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.

I like the way you side step the issue. What you fail to understand is that lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pockets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering their taxes only serves to increase their profits.

They only lower their prices if there is more competition and their market share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors.... which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.

I would give you examples of cases to illustrate this, but you won't believe anything I write anyway so why bother?


Why do you bother even trying to troll? You really suck at it. First you bitch about Walmart selling imported crap, then you want even higher prices on Domestic products. Your Schizophrenia is showing.

You literally don't understand anything I say, do you? How is talking about how supply and demand works asking for higher prices on domestic goods?

I know I'm not trolling and I suspect you aren't actually trolling. You just don't have any idea of what we are talking about, so it looks much like trolling.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Flyguy]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:26:37 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 11:14:00 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:40:59 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:41:56 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:46:10 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?


No. Corporations don't pay any 'Corporate Taxes' It is just a way to tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.

I like the way you side step the issue. What you fail to understand is that lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pockets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering their taxes only serves to increase their profits.

They only lower their prices if there is more competition and their market share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors... which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.

I would give you examples of cases to illustrate this, but you won't believe anything I write anyway so why bother?


Why do you bother even trying to troll? You really suck at it. First you bitch about Walmart selling imported crap, then you want even higher prices on Domestic products. Your Schizophrenia is showing.

You literally don't understand anything I say, do you? How is talking about how supply and demand works asking for higher prices on domestic goods?

I know I'm not trolling and I suspect you aren't actually trolling. You just don't have any idea of what we are talking about, so it looks much like trolling.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Well, you are right - I didn't understand "How is talking about how supply and demand works asking for higher prices on domestic goods? " at all. Consider rephrasing it.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 11:23:06 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 3:46:10 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:21:24 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds.. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

What percentage of federal taxes were paid by the 10% income earners in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains which are not "income".

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?

We already have welfare for the poor. Do we really need it for the rich?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

News flash: income taxes are taxes assessed on INCOME. Heaven help us if they even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and income are not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, leaving no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were paid by the top 10% of earners in 2015.

Corporations don't pay any taxes: their CUSTOMERS do. ALL taxes paid by corporations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.

No, undoing the tax cuts would HAMMER the economy, which is hanging on by a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in the next few quarters, anyhow?

I don't call paying 70% of ALL federal taxes welfare. That is just another liberal lie.

It's also a meaningless statistic. I just feel that taxes should be paid, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains (which are taxed as part of the income tax). The really big money guys pays a lower tax rate than their secretaries... at least that is that Warren Buffet would have you believe. Is he lying?

The Trump tax cuts didn't do diddly for the economy. He claimed they would stimulate the economy and produce a surplus. Never happened. Now we already have a huge deficit before piling on the trillions being spent on propping up everyone during this pandemic.

Yup, the wrong economic thinking at the wrong time. We just leaned into a left hook all thanks to Trump.

The real irony was that Obama handed a pretty sweet economy to Trump when he left office. All Trump needed to do was not fuck it up.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 3:55:00 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:29 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless?

Suppose, just for example, that China decides to sell bonds at 5%
interest. The US would have to pay 5% to refinance the national debt.

Do you automatically assume that 5% return in yuan-denominated bonds
are directly competitive with dollar-denominated bonds? I wouldn't.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:40:59 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:41:56 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:46:10 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?


No. Corporations don't pay any 'Corporate Taxes' It is just a way to tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.

I like the way you side step the issue. What you fail to understand is that lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pockets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering their taxes only serves to increase their profits.

They only lower their prices if there is more competition and their market share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors... which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.

I would give you examples of cases to illustrate this, but you won't believe anything I write anyway so why bother?

Why do you bother even trying to troll? You really suck at it. First you bitch about Walmart selling imported crap, then you want even higher prices on Domestic products. Your Schizophrenia is showing.

 

[Flyguy]

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 11:23:06 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 3:46:10 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 6:21:24 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 4:05:00 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 1:30:38 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Congress is a pack of criminal idiots. They have been for decades.
They have got so used to spending that they take it for granted now.

Why isn't that all meaningless? Congress can tax (it'd be "extortion" by any
non-government entity) and spend, and (like every government) does so.

The power to do so is written into the Constitution (has been for centuries), by
which it IS granted to, and taken by, Congress.

I see no evidence of idiocy.

There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the others.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

What percentage of federal taxes were paid by the 10% income earners in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains which are not "income".

Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?

We already have welfare for the poor. Do we really need it for the rich?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

News flash: income taxes are taxes assessed on INCOME. Heaven help us if they even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and income are not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, leaving no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were paid by the top 10% of earners in 2015.

Corporations don't pay any taxes: their CUSTOMERS do. ALL taxes paid by corporations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.

No, undoing the tax cuts would HAMMER the economy, which is hanging on by a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in the next few quarters, anyhow?

I don't call paying 70% of ALL federal taxes welfare. That is just another liberal lie.

It's also a meaningless statistic. I just feel that taxes should be paid, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains (which are taxed as part of the income tax). The really big money guys pays a lower tax rate than their secretaries... at least that is that Warren Buffet would have you believe. Is he lying?

It is sure as hell meaningful if you are the one paying the taxes. I don't set tax rates, Congress does. Capital gains taxes are actually double taxation because the income used to generate the capital gain has ALREADY been taxed at income tax rates. Nobel prize winner Milton Friedman thought that the correct capital gains tax rate was zero, but explained justification for a lower rate thus:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/kejuv/milton_friedman_on_the_treatment_of_capital_gains/
No, Buffett wasn't lying - he is a dyed in the wool liberal.

The Trump tax cuts didn't do diddly for the economy. He claimed they would stimulate the economy and produce a surplus. Never happened. Now we already have a huge deficit before piling on the trillions being spent on propping up everyone during this pandemic.

Yup it did - we are presently generating record levels of tax revenue with outstanding economic results - until COVID hit and they shut the economy down. Deficits are the direct result of even higher spending by Congress.

Yup, the wrong economic thinking at the wrong time. We just leaned into a left hook all thanks to Trump.

No, again the economy was setting all kinds of GOOD records with record unemployment and good income growth.

The real irony was that Obama handed a pretty sweet economy to Trump when he left office. All Trump needed to do was not fuck it up.

The economy was limping along under Obama with the slowest growth out of a recession since the Great Depression (less than 1% in his last year).