Car battery charging below float voltage?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 01:57:24 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 1/8/2023 11:37 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

Power outages, have statistics.

Here, a power outage is 1 second. Or a power outage is 2+ hours.

Do you live in India? I can\'t remember my last power outage. This battery is not for power outages.

In fact, the long power outages have been lengthening in time,
in the last decade. One lasted a day. The last one was two days plus.
The power company is on a safety kick, where power repair trucks
sit idle on the street, with staff sitting on their hands.

As such, a single leisure battery and three 80 ampere loads, that\'s
a huge load. And the 130 Ah leisure battery, you\'re not really supposed
to be running those flat. This means you have well-less than an
hour of capacity. How many BOINC units can you do in half an hour ?
Is it worth XXX pounds currency, for the privilege of doing
so few units ?

The computers are not powered by that battery. They run directly off the mains. They do nothing in a power outage.

With a UPS, the objective is to allow clean shutdown of all
computers. You could buy a consumer UPS for each 1kW supply.
Maybe this would give you 8 minutes holdup time, or 4 minutes
holdup time. You would need to send the shutdown signal,
to all the computers, so they would begin shutting down.

I have one for the computer in here, plus the screen, stereo, internet router, and lights for the whole house. That runs off two of those batteries. The pathetic little batteries inside UPSs are useless, I bought a 2nd hand one without batteries and connected the leisure batteries to it. Lasts 20 times longer.

My parents bought a 720W UPS which will power a 15W LED standard lamp for 8 hours, or that plus two fridges for 2 hours. Pathetic. I\'m trying to persuade my dad to let me connect a couple of leisure batteries to it. The original intention was to power the pumps for the oil boiler but they changed their mind and said they can just use the fireplace. For some reason he doesn\'t trust me connecting stuff to his fusebox.

You cannot buy the lowest tier of UPS either, if you
really plan on handling a full kW load. There are some
really awful UPS that will smoke if you do that.

My APC 1kW UPS can power a 1kW vacuum cleaner, even though motors at the full load rating are not supposed to be connected to a UPS (they draw 5 times the current at startup).

A commercial UPS, a double conversion rack mount, might have the
power rating to run your entire computer room. But, you will
be charged a commercial rate for such a beast.

Nah, I\'d get a 5kW solar invertor, and add lots of leisure batteries which are dirt cheap. A 240V powered relay will easily switch the load between that and the mains instantly.

Actually most of the load could run straight off the battery as it\'s 12V.

If the doom sayers are correct and we end up with mass power shortages, I may end up with the whole house on UPS.

In your IT days,
you might have had such rackmount UPS in the server room.

We did, it held the (on wheels) server cabinet very steady!

They seem to be quite common. As double conversion, they have a
cooling fan that runs constantly (unlike a consumer SPS which
runs cool until it flips to battery).

No, ours did not make any noise. If there was a fan it was totally silent when not under load.

Buying three UPS, would be an intermediate solution, compared to
buying a Tesla Powerwall (price has gone up 2x since introduction),
or some of the less well thought out consumer \"battery bank\" thingies.

Those are a stupid idea. Lithium Ion batteries?!? Way too expansive. Li Ion is for when you need light weight, otherwise lead acid is far cheaper.

There is one product, which does not even work as well as a
double conversion UPS, which would be cheaper than a powerwall,
and they\'re about 1kWh each.

*******

The video card uses 3.3V and 12V

No it does not, my video cards run entirely off 12V.

> The motherboard uses 3.3,5,12,-12,+5VSB.

A very small amount of current. The CPU is 12V for example.

The leisure battery only has one voltage, not
six or seven voltages.

You need to pick the logically correct point for
backup powering this mess.

Your plan right now, is just plain wrong.

You might care to read what I\'m doing first.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 01:57:24 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 1/8/2023 11:37 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

Power outages, have statistics.

Here, a power outage is 1 second. Or a power outage is 2+ hours.

Do you live in India? I can\'t remember my last power outage. This battery is not for power outages.

In fact, the long power outages have been lengthening in time,
in the last decade. One lasted a day. The last one was two days plus.
The power company is on a safety kick, where power repair trucks
sit idle on the street, with staff sitting on their hands.

As such, a single leisure battery and three 80 ampere loads, that\'s
a huge load. And the 130 Ah leisure battery, you\'re not really supposed
to be running those flat. This means you have well-less than an
hour of capacity. How many BOINC units can you do in half an hour ?
Is it worth XXX pounds currency, for the privilege of doing
so few units ?

The computers are not powered by that battery. They run directly off the mains. They do nothing in a power outage.

With a UPS, the objective is to allow clean shutdown of all
computers. You could buy a consumer UPS for each 1kW supply.
Maybe this would give you 8 minutes holdup time, or 4 minutes
holdup time. You would need to send the shutdown signal,
to all the computers, so they would begin shutting down.

I have one for the computer in here, plus the screen, stereo, internet router, and lights for the whole house. That runs off two of those batteries. The pathetic little batteries inside UPSs are useless, I bought a 2nd hand one without batteries and connected the leisure batteries to it. Lasts 20 times longer.

My parents bought a 720W UPS which will power a 15W LED standard lamp for 8 hours, or that plus two fridges for 2 hours. Pathetic. I\'m trying to persuade my dad to let me connect a couple of leisure batteries to it. The original intention was to power the pumps for the oil boiler but they changed their mind and said they can just use the fireplace. For some reason he doesn\'t trust me connecting stuff to his fusebox.

You cannot buy the lowest tier of UPS either, if you
really plan on handling a full kW load. There are some
really awful UPS that will smoke if you do that.

My APC 1kW UPS can power a 1kW vacuum cleaner, even though motors at the full load rating are not supposed to be connected to a UPS (they draw 5 times the current at startup).

A commercial UPS, a double conversion rack mount, might have the
power rating to run your entire computer room. But, you will
be charged a commercial rate for such a beast.

Nah, I\'d get a 5kW solar invertor, and add lots of leisure batteries which are dirt cheap. A 240V powered relay will easily switch the load between that and the mains instantly.

Actually most of the load could run straight off the battery as it\'s 12V.

If the doom sayers are correct and we end up with mass power shortages, I may end up with the whole house on UPS.

In your IT days,
you might have had such rackmount UPS in the server room.

We did, it held the (on wheels) server cabinet very steady!

They seem to be quite common. As double conversion, they have a
cooling fan that runs constantly (unlike a consumer SPS which
runs cool until it flips to battery).

No, ours did not make any noise. If there was a fan it was totally silent when not under load.

Buying three UPS, would be an intermediate solution, compared to
buying a Tesla Powerwall (price has gone up 2x since introduction),
or some of the less well thought out consumer \"battery bank\" thingies.

Those are a stupid idea. Lithium Ion batteries?!? Way too expansive. Li Ion is for when you need light weight, otherwise lead acid is far cheaper.

There is one product, which does not even work as well as a
double conversion UPS, which would be cheaper than a powerwall,
and they\'re about 1kWh each.

*******

The video card uses 3.3V and 12V

No it does not, my video cards run entirely off 12V.

> The motherboard uses 3.3,5,12,-12,+5VSB.

A very small amount of current. The CPU is 12V for example.

The leisure battery only has one voltage, not
six or seven voltages.

You need to pick the logically correct point for
backup powering this mess.

Your plan right now, is just plain wrong.

You might care to read what I\'m doing first.

 

[Hul Tytus]

Keep in mind that charging current is limitited both by the battery & the charger. The data I stated was from a charger with a max
current due to a 12v transformer rated at 2 or 3 amps.

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s surprising when the battery is 12V open circuit, an extra half volt only supplies 0.25 amps. I guess we need to think about the chemistry of the battery to know why it\'s so low. It must be more than a simple resistance, otherwise giving it 14.5 volts would only charge it at 1.25 amps.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 16:56:40 -0000, Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> wrote:

Your guess agrees with the results here. The first voltage/current recorded was, from memory, 12.5 volts at .25 amps.
This was about 6 or 7 days ago.
A couple of days ago I weighed the battery and in the process wiggled it a bit. Next
day the voltage & current were noticably higher. Due to the wiggling?

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I guess if that battery was half full, so 12V open circuit, you\'d get a bigger current?

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:57:21 -0000, Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> wrote:

I\'ve found 12.6 volts applied to car batteries effective, though slow, for charging. I\'ve been monitoring a battery
that\'s been charging from a current source limited to 12.6 volts. Current yesterday morning measured .029 amps & 12.55v.

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

 

[Hul Tytus]

Keep in mind that charging current is limitited both by the battery & the charger. The data I stated was from a charger with a max
current due to a 12v transformer rated at 2 or 3 amps.

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s surprising when the battery is 12V open circuit, an extra half volt only supplies 0.25 amps. I guess we need to think about the chemistry of the battery to know why it\'s so low. It must be more than a simple resistance, otherwise giving it 14.5 volts would only charge it at 1.25 amps.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 16:56:40 -0000, Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> wrote:

Your guess agrees with the results here. The first voltage/current recorded was, from memory, 12.5 volts at .25 amps.
This was about 6 or 7 days ago.
A couple of days ago I weighed the battery and in the process wiggled it a bit. Next
day the voltage & current were noticably higher. Due to the wiggling?

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I guess if that battery was half full, so 12V open circuit, you\'d get a bigger current?

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:57:21 -0000, Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> wrote:

I\'ve found 12.6 volts applied to car batteries effective, though slow, for charging. I\'ve been monitoring a battery
that\'s been charging from a current source limited to 12.6 volts. Current yesterday morning measured .029 amps & 12.55v.

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

 

[Hul Tytus]

Keep in mind that charging current is limitited both by the battery & the charger. The data I stated was from a charger with a max
current due to a 12v transformer rated at 2 or 3 amps.

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

It\'s surprising when the battery is 12V open circuit, an extra half volt only supplies 0.25 amps. I guess we need to think about the chemistry of the battery to know why it\'s so low. It must be more than a simple resistance, otherwise giving it 14.5 volts would only charge it at 1.25 amps.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 16:56:40 -0000, Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> wrote:

Your guess agrees with the results here. The first voltage/current recorded was, from memory, 12.5 volts at .25 amps.
This was about 6 or 7 days ago.
A couple of days ago I weighed the battery and in the process wiggled it a bit. Next
day the voltage & current were noticably higher. Due to the wiggling?

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I guess if that battery was half full, so 12V open circuit, you\'d get a bigger current?

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:57:21 -0000, Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> wrote:

I\'ve found 12.6 volts applied to car batteries effective, though slow, for charging. I\'ve been monitoring a battery
that\'s been charging from a current source limited to 12.6 volts. Current yesterday morning measured .029 amps & 12.55v.

Hul

In sci.electronics.design Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 20:57:24 -0500, Paul, another obviously mentally
deficient, troll-feeding senile asshole, babbled:


> Power outages, have statistics.

Trolls like the one you are feeding have statistics too. Just one tiny
selection. I can post a lot more (especially his statements about himself),
if someone wants:

damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL)
trolling:
\"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again.\"
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054mvfu7ef9ap854mjdb@4ax.com>

ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"You\'re an annoying troll and I\'m done with you and your
stupidity.\"
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78-a866-0590fe5bbc38@googlegroups.com>

AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
\"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information.\"
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.262397@fx10.am4>

Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen.\"
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g29l7aksbohsassufe2@4ax.com>

Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"I\'ve never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist.\"
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99rmu4gh9vf610ra3jk@4ax.com>

Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3FnZ2dnUU7-dPNnZ2d@giganews.com>

Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
\"Ok. I\'m persuaded . You are an idiot.\"
MID: <obru31$nao$3@dont-email.me>

DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread.\"
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4-be4d-b32d453937e0@googlegroups.com>

Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey LOL):
\"It\'s like arguing with a demented frog.\"
MID: <op.yy3c02cqmsr2db@dell3100.workgroup>

Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel.\"
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1@dont-email.me>

Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
\"He\'s a perennial idiot\"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars>

JoeyDee to Birdbrain
\"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You\'re just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments.\"
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300E7BECC700004A512CF@news.eternal-september.org>

Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He\'s just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be.\"
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7EnZ2dnUU78TGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

thekmanrocks@gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
\"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?\"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031-b91f-1850245a6ed9@googlegroups.com>

Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander
Kinsey\" LOL):
\"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It\'s from last
month some time. You\'re like a dog who\'s just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it.\"
MID: <59d8b0db.4113512@news.eternal-september.org>

Mr Pounder\'s fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
\"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed.\"
MID: <orree6$on2$1@dont-email.me>

Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
\"You haven\'t bred?
Only useful thing you\'ve done in your pathetic existence.\"
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1@gioia.aioe.org>

clare@snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"\"not the sharpest knife in the drawer\"\'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth.\"
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabtehehg3d792tmll73se0g8@4ax.com>

Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
\"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots.\"
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

francis about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence\"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"If people like JWS didn\'t exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of \"invincible ignorance\".\"
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
\"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 20:57:24 -0500, Paul, another obviously mentally
deficient, troll-feeding senile asshole, babbled:


> Power outages, have statistics.

Trolls like the one you are feeding have statistics too. Just one tiny
selection. I can post a lot more (especially his statements about himself),
if someone wants:

damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL)
trolling:
\"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again.\"
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054mvfu7ef9ap854mjdb@4ax.com>

ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"You\'re an annoying troll and I\'m done with you and your
stupidity.\"
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78-a866-0590fe5bbc38@googlegroups.com>

AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
\"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information.\"
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.262397@fx10.am4>

Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen.\"
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g29l7aksbohsassufe2@4ax.com>

Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"I\'ve never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist.\"
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99rmu4gh9vf610ra3jk@4ax.com>

Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3FnZ2dnUU7-dPNnZ2d@giganews.com>

Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
\"Ok. I\'m persuaded . You are an idiot.\"
MID: <obru31$nao$3@dont-email.me>

DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread.\"
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4-be4d-b32d453937e0@googlegroups.com>

Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey LOL):
\"It\'s like arguing with a demented frog.\"
MID: <op.yy3c02cqmsr2db@dell3100.workgroup>

Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel.\"
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1@dont-email.me>

Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
\"He\'s a perennial idiot\"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars>

JoeyDee to Birdbrain
\"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You\'re just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments.\"
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300E7BECC700004A512CF@news.eternal-september.org>

Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He\'s just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be.\"
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7EnZ2dnUU78TGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

thekmanrocks@gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
\"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?\"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031-b91f-1850245a6ed9@googlegroups.com>

Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander
Kinsey\" LOL):
\"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It\'s from last
month some time. You\'re like a dog who\'s just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it.\"
MID: <59d8b0db.4113512@news.eternal-september.org>

Mr Pounder\'s fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
\"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed.\"
MID: <orree6$on2$1@dont-email.me>

Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
\"You haven\'t bred?
Only useful thing you\'ve done in your pathetic existence.\"
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1@gioia.aioe.org>

clare@snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"\"not the sharpest knife in the drawer\"\'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth.\"
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabtehehg3d792tmll73se0g8@4ax.com>

Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
\"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots.\"
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

francis about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence\"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"If people like JWS didn\'t exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of \"invincible ignorance\".\"
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
\"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 20:57:24 -0500, Paul, another obviously mentally
deficient, troll-feeding senile asshole, babbled:


> Power outages, have statistics.

Trolls like the one you are feeding have statistics too. Just one tiny
selection. I can post a lot more (especially his statements about himself),
if someone wants:

damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL)
trolling:
\"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again.\"
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054mvfu7ef9ap854mjdb@4ax.com>

ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"You\'re an annoying troll and I\'m done with you and your
stupidity.\"
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78-a866-0590fe5bbc38@googlegroups.com>

AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
\"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information.\"
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.262397@fx10.am4>

Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen.\"
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g29l7aksbohsassufe2@4ax.com>

Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"I\'ve never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist.\"
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99rmu4gh9vf610ra3jk@4ax.com>

Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
\"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3FnZ2dnUU7-dPNnZ2d@giganews.com>

Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
\"Ok. I\'m persuaded . You are an idiot.\"
MID: <obru31$nao$3@dont-email.me>

DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread.\"
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4-be4d-b32d453937e0@googlegroups.com>

Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey LOL):
\"It\'s like arguing with a demented frog.\"
MID: <op.yy3c02cqmsr2db@dell3100.workgroup>

Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel.\"
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1@dont-email.me>

Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
\"He\'s a perennial idiot\"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars>

JoeyDee to Birdbrain
\"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You\'re just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments.\"
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300E7BECC700004A512CF@news.eternal-september.org>

Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He\'s just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be.\"
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7EnZ2dnUU78TGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

thekmanrocks@gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
\"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?\"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031-b91f-1850245a6ed9@googlegroups.com>

Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now \"Commander
Kinsey\" LOL):
\"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It\'s from last
month some time. You\'re like a dog who\'s just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it.\"
MID: <59d8b0db.4113512@news.eternal-september.org>

Mr Pounder\'s fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
\"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed.\"
MID: <orree6$on2$1@dont-email.me>

Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
\"You haven\'t bred?
Only useful thing you\'ve done in your pathetic existence.\"
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1@gioia.aioe.org>

clare@snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"\"not the sharpest knife in the drawer\"\'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth.\"
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabtehehg3d792tmll73se0g8@4ax.com>

Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
\"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots.\"
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

francis about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence\"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"If people like JWS didn\'t exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of \"invincible ignorance\".\"
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
\"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 11:37:13 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12..6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

The battery will always recharge to the time average of the voltage on the power supply bus. How could it not?

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 11:37:13 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12..6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

The battery will always recharge to the time average of the voltage on the power supply bus. How could it not?

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 11:37:13 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12..6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

The battery will always recharge to the time average of the voltage on the power supply bus. How could it not?

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 13:16:41 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743467.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 13:16:41 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743467.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 13:16:41 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743467.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 11:16:48 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 1/10/2023 11:52 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 04:10:27 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2023-01-09, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

the voltage is too low for a 6 cell lead-acid battery, and too high
for a 5 cell battery. maybe try supercapacitors instead.

Why is it too low? 12.6V means it\'s almost full.

You have to read this very carefully. One reading, is not enough.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid

Lead acid batteries can sulphate or they can suffer plate corrosion.

They are quite sensitive to how they are treated, over long
periods of time.

My APC 650 battery lasted for 11 years, the first one.
At changeover, I verified the float was 13.5V .

You sulphate them by dropping them to too low a charge level, like I\'ve done in my car - something (maybe the alternator, maybe the alarm) causes it to run a full decent battery flat in an hour or so. I have to disconnect it every single time I stop the car for a while. Sometimes I forget. The last battery eventually gave up and had so small a capacity it wouldn\'t even try to start the car, despite having the float showing green, which confused the AA mechanic. It must have also been shorting out a fair bit, so when I stalled the car at a junction (luckily 100 yards from the destination), I found it was flat despite having been driving for 2.5 hours. A passerby and my father (where I was travelling to) had to push it the rest of the way. When I had tried to jump start it from my neighbour\'s car before leaving, there wasn\'t enough juice coming across the decent thick jump leads from my neighbours (admittedly smaller but running) car to start mine. It did start when I used two
Li Ion jump starter packs aswell. I got to my destination (visiting my parents) and ordered a new battery before I left a week later. It was funny watching the postman carry it down the path!

Anyway, this is a leisure battery with thicker plates less subject to sulphation.

The replacement RBC4, with an APC sticker on it, wore out
in only three years. Three of six cells were shorted, so
only half of the normal voltage was evident. When this
happens, the chassis of the UPS gets warm, which is your
warning that something bad is happening.

Mine had a warning (annoying bleep very so often) for several months before I changed the battery, and it never got warm. But running it under load the battery indicator level dropped very fast.

Obviously, the characteristics of that \"new\" battery are not
a match for the control settings on the APC 650 circuit board.
But if the battery does not admit to not being an RBC4,
it is pretty hard to guess at what setting would make a
new battery last 11 years.

I don\'t understand, you bought the correct official battery but it was nowhere near as good as the original?

Anyway, UPC batteries are vastly overpriced, just connect leisure batteries to it. Vastly more runtime too.

When the 11 year battery failed, it had full terminal voltage,
but little amp-hour capacity left.

14.4V End of charge cycle on a fully charged battery.

12.6V The terminal voltage one day after a fully charged lead acid battery
is allowed to settle. In such a case, no bias is being applied to the
battery. You can\'t leave it sitting forever like this.

13.5V The float voltage used for battery maintenance (as measured on my UPS)
The UPS seems to be applying this all the time.

12.0V You have to decide when to stop discharging a lead-acid battery.
A leisure battery might be OK down to 11.0V, but then maybe
only one hundred charge/discharge cycles is the result. Automotive
batteries, you cannot be too greedy, during discharge, and stopping
at a higher value is advised.

I find running a battery dead enough so the starter won\'t turn properly, if you do that 10 times it fucks the battery. This is apparently better than batteries of the olden days where running it flat once could kill it.

> When you start a car, the 12.6V battery drops to around 9.5V (at terminals)

Can you find me data on the voltage of a leisure battery under load? I can\'t find anything. Mine is 130Ah, but I assume one twice as big is half the drop. I can\'t even find data on a normal car battery.

> while 150 amperes flows to the starter motor.

I\'ve seen the specs quoted as the current it can supply while maintaining 8V (might have been 8.5V).

That reminds me, I must sand down the contacts on my car battery terminals. Sometimes it won\'t start with a full battery, and since I disconnect it very time I use it and get a small spark, I may have corroded it a bit.

Some battery chemistries
are stiffer than others. This is not a violation of anything (it does
not mean a cell is reverse biased necessarily), since the condition is
transient for the battery. If the battery was no longer stiff

What does \"stiff\" mean for battery chemistry?

and had a high impedance, the terminal voltage would be a lot lower and you would
not get the 150 amperes. It could not maintain such a load (150 amps)
for long anyway. The conditions in this example, were measured on my
car, using a clamp-on DC ammeter with peak hold, and a multimeter
on DC volts with peak hold. A healthy starter motor might have been
100 amps.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 11:16:48 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 1/10/2023 11:52 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 04:10:27 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2023-01-09, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

the voltage is too low for a 6 cell lead-acid battery, and too high
for a 5 cell battery. maybe try supercapacitors instead.

Why is it too low? 12.6V means it\'s almost full.

You have to read this very carefully. One reading, is not enough.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid

Lead acid batteries can sulphate or they can suffer plate corrosion.

They are quite sensitive to how they are treated, over long
periods of time.

My APC 650 battery lasted for 11 years, the first one.
At changeover, I verified the float was 13.5V .

You sulphate them by dropping them to too low a charge level, like I\'ve done in my car - something (maybe the alternator, maybe the alarm) causes it to run a full decent battery flat in an hour or so. I have to disconnect it every single time I stop the car for a while. Sometimes I forget. The last battery eventually gave up and had so small a capacity it wouldn\'t even try to start the car, despite having the float showing green, which confused the AA mechanic. It must have also been shorting out a fair bit, so when I stalled the car at a junction (luckily 100 yards from the destination), I found it was flat despite having been driving for 2.5 hours. A passerby and my father (where I was travelling to) had to push it the rest of the way. When I had tried to jump start it from my neighbour\'s car before leaving, there wasn\'t enough juice coming across the decent thick jump leads from my neighbours (admittedly smaller but running) car to start mine. It did start when I used two
Li Ion jump starter packs aswell. I got to my destination (visiting my parents) and ordered a new battery before I left a week later. It was funny watching the postman carry it down the path!

Anyway, this is a leisure battery with thicker plates less subject to sulphation.

The replacement RBC4, with an APC sticker on it, wore out
in only three years. Three of six cells were shorted, so
only half of the normal voltage was evident. When this
happens, the chassis of the UPS gets warm, which is your
warning that something bad is happening.

Mine had a warning (annoying bleep very so often) for several months before I changed the battery, and it never got warm. But running it under load the battery indicator level dropped very fast.

Obviously, the characteristics of that \"new\" battery are not
a match for the control settings on the APC 650 circuit board.
But if the battery does not admit to not being an RBC4,
it is pretty hard to guess at what setting would make a
new battery last 11 years.

I don\'t understand, you bought the correct official battery but it was nowhere near as good as the original?

Anyway, UPC batteries are vastly overpriced, just connect leisure batteries to it. Vastly more runtime too.

When the 11 year battery failed, it had full terminal voltage,
but little amp-hour capacity left.

14.4V End of charge cycle on a fully charged battery.

12.6V The terminal voltage one day after a fully charged lead acid battery
is allowed to settle. In such a case, no bias is being applied to the
battery. You can\'t leave it sitting forever like this.

13.5V The float voltage used for battery maintenance (as measured on my UPS)
The UPS seems to be applying this all the time.

12.0V You have to decide when to stop discharging a lead-acid battery.
A leisure battery might be OK down to 11.0V, but then maybe
only one hundred charge/discharge cycles is the result. Automotive
batteries, you cannot be too greedy, during discharge, and stopping
at a higher value is advised.

I find running a battery dead enough so the starter won\'t turn properly, if you do that 10 times it fucks the battery. This is apparently better than batteries of the olden days where running it flat once could kill it.

> When you start a car, the 12.6V battery drops to around 9.5V (at terminals)

Can you find me data on the voltage of a leisure battery under load? I can\'t find anything. Mine is 130Ah, but I assume one twice as big is half the drop. I can\'t even find data on a normal car battery.

> while 150 amperes flows to the starter motor.

I\'ve seen the specs quoted as the current it can supply while maintaining 8V (might have been 8.5V).

That reminds me, I must sand down the contacts on my car battery terminals. Sometimes it won\'t start with a full battery, and since I disconnect it very time I use it and get a small spark, I may have corroded it a bit.

Some battery chemistries
are stiffer than others. This is not a violation of anything (it does
not mean a cell is reverse biased necessarily), since the condition is
transient for the battery. If the battery was no longer stiff

What does \"stiff\" mean for battery chemistry?

and had a high impedance, the terminal voltage would be a lot lower and you would
not get the 150 amperes. It could not maintain such a load (150 amps)
for long anyway. The conditions in this example, were measured on my
car, using a clamp-on DC ammeter with peak hold, and a multimeter
on DC volts with peak hold. A healthy starter motor might have been
100 amps.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 11:16:48 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 1/10/2023 11:52 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 04:10:27 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2023-01-09, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
I have 8 computers with 15 graphics cards running science projects. The graphics cards run from 12 volts, adding up to a lot of current between them. I have three 1kW power supplies connected to a big bus bar and have set those power supplies to 12.6 volts, as the graphics cards expect 11.4 to 12.6 volts, so I\'m playing safe and allowing the biggest voltage drop not to make it fall outside that range. Currently I\'m close to the limit of the power supplies, and since the current draw of the graphics cards is uneven, I thought it would be a good idea to add a car battery (actually a 130 Ah leisure battery) to the bus bars, to help out if there was too much current draw momentarily. The power supplies are current limited so don\'t mind if I try to draw too much, they will just limit the current.

My question is, is it ok to have the battery sat at 12.6 volts? This is the voltage the battery sits at with nothing connected to it when it\'s 95% full. If the battery were to supply a fair amount of current for a while and become a little discharged, would it manage to charge back up with only 12.6 volts supplied to it? Or does it require a float voltage of 13.2 volts or more?

the voltage is too low for a 6 cell lead-acid battery, and too high
for a 5 cell battery. maybe try supercapacitors instead.

Why is it too low? 12.6V means it\'s almost full.

You have to read this very carefully. One reading, is not enough.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid

Lead acid batteries can sulphate or they can suffer plate corrosion.

They are quite sensitive to how they are treated, over long
periods of time.

My APC 650 battery lasted for 11 years, the first one.
At changeover, I verified the float was 13.5V .

You sulphate them by dropping them to too low a charge level, like I\'ve done in my car - something (maybe the alternator, maybe the alarm) causes it to run a full decent battery flat in an hour or so. I have to disconnect it every single time I stop the car for a while. Sometimes I forget. The last battery eventually gave up and had so small a capacity it wouldn\'t even try to start the car, despite having the float showing green, which confused the AA mechanic. It must have also been shorting out a fair bit, so when I stalled the car at a junction (luckily 100 yards from the destination), I found it was flat despite having been driving for 2.5 hours. A passerby and my father (where I was travelling to) had to push it the rest of the way. When I had tried to jump start it from my neighbour\'s car before leaving, there wasn\'t enough juice coming across the decent thick jump leads from my neighbours (admittedly smaller but running) car to start mine. It did start when I used two
Li Ion jump starter packs aswell. I got to my destination (visiting my parents) and ordered a new battery before I left a week later. It was funny watching the postman carry it down the path!

Anyway, this is a leisure battery with thicker plates less subject to sulphation.

The replacement RBC4, with an APC sticker on it, wore out
in only three years. Three of six cells were shorted, so
only half of the normal voltage was evident. When this
happens, the chassis of the UPS gets warm, which is your
warning that something bad is happening.

Mine had a warning (annoying bleep very so often) for several months before I changed the battery, and it never got warm. But running it under load the battery indicator level dropped very fast.

Obviously, the characteristics of that \"new\" battery are not
a match for the control settings on the APC 650 circuit board.
But if the battery does not admit to not being an RBC4,
it is pretty hard to guess at what setting would make a
new battery last 11 years.

I don\'t understand, you bought the correct official battery but it was nowhere near as good as the original?

Anyway, UPC batteries are vastly overpriced, just connect leisure batteries to it. Vastly more runtime too.

When the 11 year battery failed, it had full terminal voltage,
but little amp-hour capacity left.

14.4V End of charge cycle on a fully charged battery.

12.6V The terminal voltage one day after a fully charged lead acid battery
is allowed to settle. In such a case, no bias is being applied to the
battery. You can\'t leave it sitting forever like this.

13.5V The float voltage used for battery maintenance (as measured on my UPS)
The UPS seems to be applying this all the time.

12.0V You have to decide when to stop discharging a lead-acid battery.
A leisure battery might be OK down to 11.0V, but then maybe
only one hundred charge/discharge cycles is the result. Automotive
batteries, you cannot be too greedy, during discharge, and stopping
at a higher value is advised.

I find running a battery dead enough so the starter won\'t turn properly, if you do that 10 times it fucks the battery. This is apparently better than batteries of the olden days where running it flat once could kill it.

> When you start a car, the 12.6V battery drops to around 9.5V (at terminals)

Can you find me data on the voltage of a leisure battery under load? I can\'t find anything. Mine is 130Ah, but I assume one twice as big is half the drop. I can\'t even find data on a normal car battery.

> while 150 amperes flows to the starter motor.

I\'ve seen the specs quoted as the current it can supply while maintaining 8V (might have been 8.5V).

That reminds me, I must sand down the contacts on my car battery terminals. Sometimes it won\'t start with a full battery, and since I disconnect it very time I use it and get a small spark, I may have corroded it a bit.

Some battery chemistries
are stiffer than others. This is not a violation of anything (it does
not mean a cell is reverse biased necessarily), since the condition is
transient for the battery. If the battery was no longer stiff

What does \"stiff\" mean for battery chemistry?

and had a high impedance, the terminal voltage would be a lot lower and you would
not get the 150 amperes. It could not maintain such a load (150 amps)
for long anyway. The conditions in this example, were measured on my
car, using a clamp-on DC ammeter with peak hold, and a multimeter
on DC volts with peak hold. A healthy starter motor might have been
100 amps.

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 04:37:04 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka \"Commander Kinsey\",
\"James Wilkinson\", \"Steven Wanker\",\"Bruce Farquar\", \"Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore\'s latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
\"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots.\"
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence\"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"If people like JWS didn\'t exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of \"invincible ignorance\".\"
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
\"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 04:37:04 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka \"Commander Kinsey\",
\"James Wilkinson\", \"Steven Wanker\",\"Bruce Farquar\", \"Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore\'s latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
\"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots.\"
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence\"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"If people like JWS didn\'t exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of \"invincible ignorance\".\"
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
\"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 04:37:04 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka \"Commander Kinsey\",
\"James Wilkinson\", \"Steven Wanker\",\"Bruce Farquar\", \"Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore\'s latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
\"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots.\"
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence\"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL):
\"If people like JWS didn\'t exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of \"invincible ignorance\".\"
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
\"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>