S
Sparky
Guest
He was speaking of when I measured the resistance of the cables and
terminals. Not current.
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He was speaking of when I measured the resistance of the cables and
terminals. Not current.
S
Sparky
Guest
A second test of the cables, this time using an ESR meter capable of
measuring hundredths of ohms and able to null test lead resistance.
(-) battery cable, from battery terminal to chassis: 0.02 ohms;
(+) battery cable, from battery terminal to starter solenoid: 0.05 ohms;
Alternator cable, from alternator to starter solenoid: 0.33 ohms.
These measurements were done with (-) cable disconnected from battery post
(no potential across cables) and test leads nulled.
So 35 amps charging current over 0.33 ohms pretty much drops the full 12
volts.
I'll look into wiring and terminal issues.
Thanks to all who helped.
measuring hundredths of ohms and able to null test lead resistance.
(-) battery cable, from battery terminal to chassis: 0.02 ohms;
(+) battery cable, from battery terminal to starter solenoid: 0.05 ohms;
Alternator cable, from alternator to starter solenoid: 0.33 ohms.
These measurements were done with (-) cable disconnected from battery post
(no potential across cables) and test leads nulled.
So 35 amps charging current over 0.33 ohms pretty much drops the full 12
volts.
I'll look into wiring and terminal issues.
Thanks to all who helped.
J
John Robertson
Guest
On 02/18/2015 6:09 PM, Sparky wrote:
Um, the 12V drop would only be if the alternator cable wire was shorted
to ground/chassis. You would then be dissipating something like 400
watts through that wire! Ouch!!
It is the total resistance of the circuit that counts, not just one part...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
A second test of the cables, this time using an ESR meter capable of
measuring hundredths of ohms and able to null test lead resistance.
(-) battery cable, from battery terminal to chassis: 0.02 ohms;
(+) battery cable, from battery terminal to starter solenoid: 0.05 ohms;
Alternator cable, from alternator to starter solenoid: 0.33 ohms.
These measurements were done with (-) cable disconnected from battery post
(no potential across cables) and test leads nulled.
So 35 amps charging current over 0.33 ohms pretty much drops the full 12
volts.
I'll look into wiring and terminal issues.
Thanks to all who helped.
Um, the 12V drop would only be if the alternator cable wire was shorted
to ground/chassis. You would then be dissipating something like 400
watts through that wire! Ouch!!
It is the total resistance of the circuit that counts, not just one part...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
M
Mike
Guest
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:27:55 -0800, Sparky wrote:
I was assuming it was a multimeter. Low[er] resistance leads on any multi-
purpose meter are useful!
Mike.
I hope not a meter that claims to measure currents of (say) 10 amps!
Mike.
He was speaking of when I measured the resistance of the cables and
terminals. Not current.
I was assuming it was a multimeter. Low[er] resistance leads on any multi-
purpose meter are useful!
Mike.
R
Ron D.
Guest
One of the things I do is to basically turn on the high power stuff and measure the (voltage drop) between the output terminal of the alternator and the battery. I keep that number around although now I have the ability to do non-contact measurements of current.
That cable acts as a ammeter shunt, just not calibrated. It can be used as a benchmark, though.
You could also have an engine ground bond broken.
So thinks like looking at odd places like the wire to to stud when cranking.. It might look like your measuring the same place, but in reality, your looking at the quality of the crimp.
In a lot of cases the rotor gets powered from the ignition switch so that there is no leakage when off. So,, problems can be there too.
So look at voltages across terminals under load and look for corroded bulkhead connectors.
A very simple high resistance crimp is a possibility.
That cable acts as a ammeter shunt, just not calibrated. It can be used as a benchmark, though.
You could also have an engine ground bond broken.
So thinks like looking at odd places like the wire to to stud when cranking.. It might look like your measuring the same place, but in reality, your looking at the quality of the crimp.
In a lot of cases the rotor gets powered from the ignition switch so that there is no leakage when off. So,, problems can be there too.
So look at voltages across terminals under load and look for corroded bulkhead connectors.
A very simple high resistance crimp is a possibility.
S
Shaun
Guest
"rickman" wrote in message news:mc0etn$q4g$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/16/2015 10:16 PM, Sparky wrote:
What is your current unit rated for 60A?
I replaced the 70A alternator in my truck when a diode opened up. It
was still working, but not enough juice to charge the battery when the
lights were on and I run the headlights all the time, lol. Nothing ever
got fried though.
What is your alternator model number? What year? Mine is a 97 T100 and
I found they changed the alternator in mid model year (around April,
IIRC). Causes a lot of confusion on what is the right model. I tried
finding a replacement diode bridge. *That* was the major change and was
incompatible between the two versions. When looking for parts be sure
to use the VIN to get the right one.
I ended up getting a used alternator and it is running ok now...
although it is in the shop for a clutch. They've ordered two so far.
The first pressure plate "collapsed" whatever that means and the springs
on the second weren't right. They are giving NAPA some hell over this
and are getting an upgraded one to put in my truck. Hope to have it soon.
--
Rick
A 70 amp alternator is not a very large capacity one. I think my old 1999
Mercury Cougar has a stock replacement 110 amp alternator. I burned out the
first one using dual subwoofers and an amp that I added. I took out the
subs and replaced the battery too after replacing the alternator. I live in
central Canada where it gets really cold, so I put a charger on the battery
two or three time during winter to keep the battery at top charge. If you
are making short trips with your vehicle, your battery does not have enough
time to recharge between starts and eventually the charge will keep
decreasing which puts a heavy load on your alternator right after starting
it.
Shaun
On 2/16/2015 10:16 PM, Sparky wrote:
Do you happen to have quadruple 300 W audio channels on board?
No, mostly stock old Toyota. Only additional load is Xenon lamps. These
pull
10A total which isn't much for lights...
Maybe I'll upgrade the alternator to a later-model Toyota 70A or such.
What is your current unit rated for 60A?
I replaced the 70A alternator in my truck when a diode opened up. It
was still working, but not enough juice to charge the battery when the
lights were on and I run the headlights all the time, lol. Nothing ever
got fried though.
What is your alternator model number? What year? Mine is a 97 T100 and
I found they changed the alternator in mid model year (around April,
IIRC). Causes a lot of confusion on what is the right model. I tried
finding a replacement diode bridge. *That* was the major change and was
incompatible between the two versions. When looking for parts be sure
to use the VIN to get the right one.
I ended up getting a used alternator and it is running ok now...
although it is in the shop for a clutch. They've ordered two so far.
The first pressure plate "collapsed" whatever that means and the springs
on the second weren't right. They are giving NAPA some hell over this
and are getting an upgraded one to put in my truck. Hope to have it soon.
--
Rick
A 70 amp alternator is not a very large capacity one. I think my old 1999
Mercury Cougar has a stock replacement 110 amp alternator. I burned out the
first one using dual subwoofers and an amp that I added. I took out the
subs and replaced the battery too after replacing the alternator. I live in
central Canada where it gets really cold, so I put a charger on the battery
two or three time during winter to keep the battery at top charge. If you
are making short trips with your vehicle, your battery does not have enough
time to recharge between starts and eventually the charge will keep
decreasing which puts a heavy load on your alternator right after starting
it.
Shaun
M
micky
Guest
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:52:37 -0600, "Shaun" <stereobuff07@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why would you need a bigger alternator than the one that came with the
car? Are you using substantially more current than the car used when
new? How? Only the biggest sound system would use much more current,
and if you have some enormous sound system, or a winch that you use all
the time, stop using those things until you figure out what is wrong
with the car.
My brother bought a new car and the dealer replaced the altenator, the
starter motor, and the battery twice, to make the car start right. But
the dealer guys didn't know what they were doing.
I took it to Sears and they found the problem in less than 5 minutes.
It was a dirty connection between the positive battery cable and the
starter solenoid (which also powered t he starter motor.) It cost
NOTHING in parts to fix, and they charged me nothing to fix it, perhaps
becaue I was buying a new battery, but it would have been very cheap
anyhow. If it's not that connection, it might be another one. You're
battery cables could not have 1.5 ohms resistance, but where they are
connected might.
If a battery post gets hot when you're trying to start the car, there
is a bad connection between that post and the cable connecter that's
attached to it. Hot does not mean it's carrying a lot of electricity.
It means it's having trouble carrying the electricity it needs.
Because of a bad connection that wastes energy making heat.
People spend a lot of time t hinking abou tthe big components and less
time thinking about the wires in between (which I gather you have
checked) and even less time thinking about the connections of the wres
in between. Check them all, especially those that carry substantial
current.
They fixed it, but every time I left the light on for a few hours, the
problem would start again. At firstr I took the cable off and cleaned
everything, like the Sears guy did, but then I learned just ot rotate
the cable end on the stud, 10 or 20^ and then rotate it back.
Finally I got a buzzer that buzzes when I left the headlights or parking
lights on and the problem went a way entirely.
wrote:
"rickman" wrote in message news:mc0etn$q4g$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/16/2015 10:16 PM, Sparky wrote:
Do you happen to have quadruple 300 W audio channels on board?
No, mostly stock old Toyota. Only additional load is Xenon lamps. These
pull
10A total which isn't much for lights...
Maybe I'll upgrade the alternator to a later-model Toyota 70A or such.
Why would you need a bigger alternator than the one that came with the
car? Are you using substantially more current than the car used when
new? How? Only the biggest sound system would use much more current,
and if you have some enormous sound system, or a winch that you use all
the time, stop using those things until you figure out what is wrong
with the car.
My brother bought a new car and the dealer replaced the altenator, the
starter motor, and the battery twice, to make the car start right. But
the dealer guys didn't know what they were doing.
I took it to Sears and they found the problem in less than 5 minutes.
It was a dirty connection between the positive battery cable and the
starter solenoid (which also powered t he starter motor.) It cost
NOTHING in parts to fix, and they charged me nothing to fix it, perhaps
becaue I was buying a new battery, but it would have been very cheap
anyhow. If it's not that connection, it might be another one. You're
battery cables could not have 1.5 ohms resistance, but where they are
connected might.
If a battery post gets hot when you're trying to start the car, there
is a bad connection between that post and the cable connecter that's
attached to it. Hot does not mean it's carrying a lot of electricity.
It means it's having trouble carrying the electricity it needs.
Because of a bad connection that wastes energy making heat.
People spend a lot of time t hinking abou tthe big components and less
time thinking about the wires in between (which I gather you have
checked) and even less time thinking about the connections of the wres
in between. Check them all, especially those that carry substantial
current.
They fixed it, but every time I left the light on for a few hours, the
problem would start again. At firstr I took the cable off and cleaned
everything, like the Sears guy did, but then I learned just ot rotate
the cable end on the stud, 10 or 20^ and then rotate it back.
Finally I got a buzzer that buzzes when I left the headlights or parking
lights on and the problem went a way entirely.
What is your current unit rated for 60A?
I replaced the 70A alternator in my truck when a diode opened up. It
was still working, but not enough juice to charge the battery when the
lights were on and I run the headlights all the time, lol. Nothing ever
got fried though.
What is your alternator model number? What year? Mine is a 97 T100 and
I found they changed the alternator in mid model year (around April,
IIRC). Causes a lot of confusion on what is the right model. I tried
finding a replacement diode bridge. *That* was the major change and was
incompatible between the two versions. When looking for parts be sure
to use the VIN to get the right one.
I ended up getting a used alternator and it is running ok now...
although it is in the shop for a clutch. They've ordered two so far.
The first pressure plate "collapsed" whatever that means and the springs
on the second weren't right. They are giving NAPA some hell over this
and are getting an upgraded one to put in my truck. Hope to have it soon.
S
Shaun
Guest
"micky" wrote in message news:3pt1iatpt9n7qn6b28hj3b82mq237s5o3j@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:52:37 -0600, "Shaun" <stereobuff07@gmail.com>
wrote:
Yup... I've run into that problem too. When it get freezing cold outside,
metal shrinks. If the cable clamps are not tight on the battery, you'll run
into a bad connection at the battery terminal. Temporary fix is to turn the
clamps by hand, if you can - that is the problem. Your car will probably
start after twisting the terminals back and forth, but once you get home -
tighten the bolts with a wrench.
Shaun
Finally I got a buzzer that buzzes when I left the headlights or parking
lights on and the problem went a way entirely.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:52:37 -0600, "Shaun" <stereobuff07@gmail.com>
wrote:
"rickman" wrote in message news:mc0etn$q4g$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/16/2015 10:16 PM, Sparky wrote:
Do you happen to have quadruple 300 W audio channels on board?
No, mostly stock old Toyota. Only additional load is Xenon lamps. These
pull
10A total which isn't much for lights...
Maybe I'll upgrade the alternator to a later-model Toyota 70A or such.
Why would you need a bigger alternator than the one that came with the
car? Are you using substantially more current than the car used when
new? How? Only the biggest sound system would use much more current,
and if you have some enormous sound system, or a winch that you use all
the time, stop using those things until you figure out what is wrong
with the car.
My brother bought a new car and the dealer replaced the altenator, the
starter motor, and the battery twice, to make the car start right. But
the dealer guys didn't know what they were doing.
I took it to Sears and they found the problem in less than 5 minutes.
It was a dirty connection between the positive battery cable and the
starter solenoid (which also powered t he starter motor.) It cost
NOTHING in parts to fix, and they charged me nothing to fix it, perhaps
because I was buying a new battery, but it would have been very cheap
anyhow. If it's not that connection, it might be another one. You're
battery cables could not have 1.5 ohms resistance, but where they are
connected might.
If a battery post gets hot when you're trying to start the car, there
is a bad connection between that post and the cable connecter that's
attached to it. Hot does not mean it's carrying a lot of electricity.
It means it's having trouble carrying the electricity it needs.
Because of a bad connection that wastes energy making heat.
People spend a lot of time t hinking abou the big components and less
time thinking about the wires in between (which I gather you have
checked) and even less time thinking about the connections of the wres
in between. Check them all, especially those that carry substantial
current.
They fixed it, but every time I left the light on for a few hours, the
problem would start again. At firstr I took the cable off and cleaned
everything, like the Sears guy did, but then I learned just ot rotate
the cable end on the stud, 10 or 20^ and then rotate it back.
Yup... I've run into that problem too. When it get freezing cold outside,
metal shrinks. If the cable clamps are not tight on the battery, you'll run
into a bad connection at the battery terminal. Temporary fix is to turn the
clamps by hand, if you can - that is the problem. Your car will probably
start after twisting the terminals back and forth, but once you get home -
tighten the bolts with a wrench.
Shaun
Finally I got a buzzer that buzzes when I left the headlights or parking
lights on and the problem went a way entirely.
What is your current unit rated for 60A?
I replaced the 70A alternator in my truck when a diode opened up. It
was still working, but not enough juice to charge the battery when the
lights were on and I run the headlights all the time, lol. Nothing ever
got fried though.
What is your alternator model number? What year? Mine is a 97 T100 and
I found they changed the alternator in mid model year (around April,
IIRC). Causes a lot of confusion on what is the right model. I tried
finding a replacement diode bridge. *That* was the major change and was
incompatible between the two versions. When looking for parts be sure
to use the VIN to get the right one.
I ended up getting a used alternator and it is running ok now...
although it is in the shop for a clutch. They've ordered two so far.
The first pressure plate "collapsed" whatever that means and the springs
on the second weren't right. They are giving NAPA some hell over this
and are getting an upgraded one to put in my truck. Hope to have it soon.