Car Alternator as Human Powered Generator

X-No-Archive: yes
"Mjolinor" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: >
: > : > : > "A prime example of true British Thinking!"
: >
: > : > : > Cubic meters? How about cubic "cubits?"
: > : > : That one went over my head
: > : > A Cubit is about 18 inches, so a cubic Cubit would be
about a
: > : > quarter the volume of a cubic meter. (See conversions)
Not
: > : > likely a single ox would produce a large volume of Methane
gas
: > : > what you could meter in cu Meters!
: > : >
: > : > Looses a lot in translation!
: > :
: > : It certainly does because that one went over my head as
well.
: > :
: > : yes I would have thought that as it was cubic meters
initially
: > : then it would be more correct to quote a cubit to be
slightly
: > : over 457 mm. I suspect the volume would be the same whether
: > : measured in cubic meters or cubic cubits or maybe some other
: > : antiquated units like cubic inches, cubic feet or maybe
: > : cubic furlongs is to your taste. :)
: >
: > A meter is 39.3700787 inch so 18 about inches is close enough
for
: > government work!
: > Cubic Chains "Or" Fathoms, I use them all! They are all
valid.
: > Like "Stones" in England!
: >
<snip>
: > The point was that the "British Thinking" is over stated in
grand
: > terms and about manure!
: I still don't see it :)
:
: > I see that implied humor does not play well on the news group
: > unless you add :)>) to every instance! So the reader knows to
: > expect some obscure humor or innuendo!
:
: Implied humor worked fine for me in all the posts.
:
: As a user of "stones" I find it kind of hard to measure volume
with it.

If you agree that "stones" are a legitimate unit of measure, you
got it. I did not suggest that you could convert Cubic measure to
stones, rather that all are legitimate units!

I find it interesting that many people read into the posts much
which is not stated in the post nor even implied!
 
"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:QRxuc.2319$MJ5.1603@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
X-No-Archive: yes
"Mjolinor" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : > : "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: > : > : > "A prime example of true British Thinking!"
:
: > : > : > Cubic meters? How about cubic "cubits?"
: > : > : That one went over my head
: > : > A Cubit is about 18 inches, so a cubic Cubit would be
about a
: > : > quarter the volume of a cubic meter. (See conversions)
Not
: > : > likely a single ox would produce a large volume of Methane
gas
: > : > what you could meter in cu Meters!
: > :
: > : > Looses a lot in translation!
: > :
: > : It certainly does because that one went over my head as
well.
: > :
: > : yes I would have thought that as it was cubic meters
initially
: > : then it would be more correct to quote a cubit to be
slightly
: > : over 457 mm. I suspect the volume would be the same whether
: > : measured in cubic meters or cubic cubits or maybe some other
: > : antiquated units like cubic inches, cubic feet or maybe
: > : cubic furlongs is to your taste. :)
:
: > A meter is 39.3700787 inch so 18 about inches is close enough
for
: > government work!
: > Cubic Chains "Or" Fathoms, I use them all! They are all
valid.
: > Like "Stones" in England!
:
snip
: > The point was that the "British Thinking" is over stated in
grand
: > terms and about manure!
: I still don't see it :)
:
: > I see that implied humor does not play well on the news group
: > unless you add :)>) to every instance! So the reader knows to
: > expect some obscure humor or innuendo!
:
: Implied humor worked fine for me in all the posts.
:
: As a user of "stones" I find it kind of hard to measure volume
with it.

If you agree that "stones" are a legitimate unit of measure, you
got it. I did not suggest that you could convert Cubic measure to
stones, rather that all are legitimate units!

I find it interesting that many people read into the posts much
which is not stated in the post nor even implied!


Well, I know there's more than 8 cubic cubits in a stere.
Click to expand...

Cheers!
Rich
 
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAA58A.2868@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40B968B1.55B9@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

Anyway, the truck featured a Cummins 6 cylinder diesel engine
similar to the GMC 671 series diesel engine. It had similar
displacement, (about 71 cu inches per cylinder), and 6 cylinders.
Of course the Cummins did not have a supercharger like the GMC, but
since the GMC is a 2 cycle diesel, it has to have a supercharger.
Anyway the engine was idling and when I applied 12 volts to the
rotor of the alternator with it's output shunted directly to ground,
the engine stalled and stopped almost as if one had shut off the
fuel. Yes, the fuel shutoff valve was bypassed just to make sure
there was no doubt that this was NOT a rigged demo.
--------------------
Why is this surprising?? You just invented an electric brake!


If you want another unbelieveable true story, let me tell you about
the time I fired up a GMC engine in a International truck and it
started running backwards. Smoke was pouring out the intake and it
lacked all manner of power. Reverse was forward and forward gear
was reverse. Once I figured out what was going on, I shut it off,
restarted and everything was fine.

r
-------------------
How was it running backwards? The 4-stroke cycle doesn't permit this!
Sounds like an urban legend. Do you mean the starter turned it
backwards, why was the bettery reversed?

-Steve

It is not an urban legend. I was there. I started it, I tried to
drive it. The year was circa 1975. It was a cold day with snow on
the ground.
The foremans last name was Fang. Had efficiency experts come there
once. They worked for a company called Proudfoot. No urban legend
here.

All of the GMC engines that I have ever worked with are 2 cycle
engines. That includes their very large locomotive and marine engines.
(Yes I worked for Electro-motive for a while as a Locomotive
Electrician) That also includes their 53 series engine which boasts 53
cubic inches displacement per cylinder. That little workhorse is
pretty amazing. That particular engine was used in a piece of equiment
commonly called a Straddle-Buggy. Made by Hi-Jack? Corp who has
offices in Hazel Crest IL. The tires used on that bit of equiment were
used commercial aircraft tires. I digress, but GM's supercharged and
turbocharged (yes, both at once) 6 and 8 cylinder models are rather
special too.

The engine in question was a GMC engine. A series 871 if memory serves
me right. If it wasn't a 871 it was a 671. (we had 1671 series as
well..16 cylinders at 71 cubic inches per cylinder. See Euclid R-50.)
What happened was that the starter was not engaged for the proper
length of time and the resultant "kickback" had enough energy to start
the engine rotating and firing backwards. This mode of operation is
not recommended due to the lack of oil pressure. Yes, I noticed that
there was no oil pressure on the gauge, but since so many things didn't
work when it was unknowingly run backwards, I figured that is why it
was brought to the shop. It wasn't until I tried to move it and the
vehicle travelled the opposite direction of what was clearly marked on
the transmission shift pattern plate, that I realized what had
happened. That was a few careers ago. Many things have changed since
then.
------------------
How does that occur even with the 2-stroke cycle, doesn't it require
that leave valves run backasswards? Or what kind of valve is that
silly thing, is this like those Detroit's that are 2-stroke?

-Steve
Click to expand...
Steve,

I am not sure what your question is about valves. The exhaust valves are
just like any other engine valve operated from a camshaft.

Detroit Diesel is a 2 cycle diesel engine. Detroit Diesel is a division
of General Motors. Hence the nick names of GMC Diesel and Jimmy Diesel.
There are a few others but can't remember what they are. The GMC engines
are designed to be worked hard. If you baby them, there will be all
manner of issues like oil consumption, fuel dilution, etc. There are many
divisions of GM Corp.


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.
 
"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:QRxuc.2319$MJ5.1603@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
X-No-Archive: yes
"Mjolinor" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : > : "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: > : > : > "A prime example of true British Thinking!"
:
: > : > : > Cubic meters? How about cubic "cubits?"
: > : > : That one went over my head
: > : > A Cubit is about 18 inches, so a cubic Cubit would be
about a
: > : > quarter the volume of a cubic meter. (See conversions)
Not
: > : > likely a single ox would produce a large volume of Methane
gas
: > : > what you could meter in cu Meters!
: > :
: > : > Looses a lot in translation!
: > :
: > : It certainly does because that one went over my head as
well.
: > :
: > : yes I would have thought that as it was cubic meters
initially
: > : then it would be more correct to quote a cubit to be
slightly
: > : over 457 mm. I suspect the volume would be the same whether
: > : measured in cubic meters or cubic cubits or maybe some other
: > : antiquated units like cubic inches, cubic feet or maybe
: > : cubic furlongs is to your taste. :)
:
: > A meter is 39.3700787 inch so 18 about inches is close enough
for
: > government work!
: > Cubic Chains "Or" Fathoms, I use them all! They are all
valid.
: > Like "Stones" in England!
:
snip
: > The point was that the "British Thinking" is over stated in
grand
: > terms and about manure!
: I still don't see it :)
:
: > I see that implied humor does not play well on the news group
: > unless you add :)>) to every instance! So the reader knows to
: > expect some obscure humor or innuendo!
:
: Implied humor worked fine for me in all the posts.
:
: As a user of "stones" I find it kind of hard to measure volume
with it.

If you agree that "stones" are a legitimate unit of measure, you
got it. I did not suggest that you could convert Cubic measure to
stones, rather that all are legitimate units!

I find it interesting that many people read into the posts much
which is not stated in the post nor even implied!


Well if they didn't there would be no expansion of the threads and the
Click to expand...
humour would be non-existant.
 
Rich.Andrews wrote:
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAA58A.2868@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40B968B1.55B9@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

Anyway, the truck featured a Cummins 6 cylinder diesel engine
similar to the GMC 671 series diesel engine. It had similar
displacement, (about 71 cu inches per cylinder), and 6 cylinders.
Of course the Cummins did not have a supercharger like the GMC, but
since the GMC is a 2 cycle diesel, it has to have a supercharger.
Anyway the engine was idling and when I applied 12 volts to the
rotor of the alternator with it's output shunted directly to ground,
the engine stalled and stopped almost as if one had shut off the
fuel. Yes, the fuel shutoff valve was bypassed just to make sure
there was no doubt that this was NOT a rigged demo.
--------------------
Why is this surprising?? You just invented an electric brake!


If you want another unbelieveable true story, let me tell you about
the time I fired up a GMC engine in a International truck and it
started running backwards. Smoke was pouring out the intake and it
lacked all manner of power. Reverse was forward and forward gear
was reverse. Once I figured out what was going on, I shut it off,
restarted and everything was fine.

r
-------------------
How was it running backwards? The 4-stroke cycle doesn't permit this!
Sounds like an urban legend. Do you mean the starter turned it
backwards, why was the bettery reversed?

-Steve

It is not an urban legend. I was there. I started it, I tried to
drive it. The year was circa 1975. It was a cold day with snow on
the ground.
The foremans last name was Fang. Had efficiency experts come there
once. They worked for a company called Proudfoot. No urban legend
here.

All of the GMC engines that I have ever worked with are 2 cycle
engines. That includes their very large locomotive and marine engines.
(Yes I worked for Electro-motive for a while as a Locomotive
Electrician) That also includes their 53 series engine which boasts 53
cubic inches displacement per cylinder. That little workhorse is
pretty amazing. That particular engine was used in a piece of equiment
commonly called a Straddle-Buggy. Made by Hi-Jack? Corp who has
offices in Hazel Crest IL. The tires used on that bit of equiment were
used commercial aircraft tires. I digress, but GM's supercharged and
turbocharged (yes, both at once) 6 and 8 cylinder models are rather
special too.

The engine in question was a GMC engine. A series 871 if memory serves
me right. If it wasn't a 871 it was a 671. (we had 1671 series as
well..16 cylinders at 71 cubic inches per cylinder. See Euclid R-50.)
What happened was that the starter was not engaged for the proper
length of time and the resultant "kickback" had enough energy to start
the engine rotating and firing backwards. This mode of operation is
not recommended due to the lack of oil pressure. Yes, I noticed that
there was no oil pressure on the gauge, but since so many things didn't
work when it was unknowingly run backwards, I figured that is why it
was brought to the shop. It wasn't until I tried to move it and the
vehicle travelled the opposite direction of what was clearly marked on
the transmission shift pattern plate, that I realized what had
happened. That was a few careers ago. Many things have changed since
then.
------------------
How does that occur even with the 2-stroke cycle, doesn't it require
that leave valves run backasswards? Or what kind of valve is that
silly thing, is this like those Detroit's that are 2-stroke?

-Steve

Steve,

I am not sure what your question is about valves. The exhaust valves are
just like any other engine valve operated from a camshaft.

Detroit Diesel is a 2 cycle diesel engine. Detroit Diesel is a division
of General Motors. Hence the nick names of GMC Diesel and Jimmy Diesel.
There are a few others but can't remember what they are. The GMC engines
are designed to be worked hard. If you baby them, there will be all
manner of issues like oil consumption, fuel dilution, etc. There are many
divisions of GM Corp.
--------------------------
Click to expand...
Okay, I had heard the Detroit had leaf air-input valves like a silly
lawn mower. If it has regular valves, still, doesn't the valve timing
prevent it from running backwards?

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public
 
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40BAD4E9.F55@armory.com...
Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAA58A.2868@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40B968B1.55B9@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

Anyway, the truck featured a Cummins 6 cylinder diesel engine
similar to the GMC 671 series diesel engine. It had similar
displacement, (about 71 cu inches per cylinder), and 6 cylinders.
Of course the Cummins did not have a supercharger like the GMC,
but
since the GMC is a 2 cycle diesel, it has to have a supercharger.
Anyway the engine was idling and when I applied 12 volts to the
rotor of the alternator with it's output shunted directly to
ground,
the engine stalled and stopped almost as if one had shut off the
fuel. Yes, the fuel shutoff valve was bypassed just to make sure
there was no doubt that this was NOT a rigged demo.
--------------------
Why is this surprising?? You just invented an electric brake!


If you want another unbelieveable true story, let me tell you
about
the time I fired up a GMC engine in a International truck and it
started running backwards. Smoke was pouring out the intake and
it
lacked all manner of power. Reverse was forward and forward gear
was reverse. Once I figured out what was going on, I shut it off,
restarted and everything was fine.

r
-------------------
How was it running backwards? The 4-stroke cycle doesn't permit
this!
Sounds like an urban legend. Do you mean the starter turned it
backwards, why was the bettery reversed?

-Steve

It is not an urban legend. I was there. I started it, I tried to
drive it. The year was circa 1975. It was a cold day with snow on
the ground.
The foremans last name was Fang. Had efficiency experts come there
once. They worked for a company called Proudfoot. No urban legend
here.

All of the GMC engines that I have ever worked with are 2 cycle
engines. That includes their very large locomotive and marine
engines.
(Yes I worked for Electro-motive for a while as a Locomotive
Electrician) That also includes their 53 series engine which boasts
53
cubic inches displacement per cylinder. That little workhorse is
pretty amazing. That particular engine was used in a piece of
equiment
commonly called a Straddle-Buggy. Made by Hi-Jack? Corp who has
offices in Hazel Crest IL. The tires used on that bit of equiment
were
used commercial aircraft tires. I digress, but GM's supercharged and
turbocharged (yes, both at once) 6 and 8 cylinder models are rather
special too.

The engine in question was a GMC engine. A series 871 if memory
serves
me right. If it wasn't a 871 it was a 671. (we had 1671 series as
well..16 cylinders at 71 cubic inches per cylinder. See Euclid
R-50.)
What happened was that the starter was not engaged for the proper
length of time and the resultant "kickback" had enough energy to
start
the engine rotating and firing backwards. This mode of operation is
not recommended due to the lack of oil pressure. Yes, I noticed that
there was no oil pressure on the gauge, but since so many things
didn't
work when it was unknowingly run backwards, I figured that is why it
was brought to the shop. It wasn't until I tried to move it and the
vehicle travelled the opposite direction of what was clearly marked
on
the transmission shift pattern plate, that I realized what had
happened. That was a few careers ago. Many things have changed
since
then.
------------------
How does that occur even with the 2-stroke cycle, doesn't it require
that leave valves run backasswards? Or what kind of valve is that
silly thing, is this like those Detroit's that are 2-stroke?

-Steve

Steve,

I am not sure what your question is about valves. The exhaust valves
are
just like any other engine valve operated from a camshaft.

Detroit Diesel is a 2 cycle diesel engine. Detroit Diesel is a division
of General Motors. Hence the nick names of GMC Diesel and Jimmy Diesel.
There are a few others but can't remember what they are. The GMC
engines
are designed to be worked hard. If you baby them, there will be all
manner of issues like oil consumption, fuel dilution, etc. There are
many
divisions of GM Corp.
--------------------------
Okay, I had heard the Detroit had leaf air-input valves like a silly
lawn mower. If it has regular valves, still, doesn't the valve timing
prevent it from running backwards?

-Steve
Click to expand...
Not all designs of two stroke engine will run backwards but some will. I
don't know why they should spew smoke out the inlet though.

They will run backwards if forced because the valves are timed by the
movement of the piston not the rotation of the crankshaft. The piston goes
up and down the same irrespective of the rotation direction of the
crankshaft. The Villiers 11E two stroke engine used a reversing starter
motor to start the engine the other way round for reverse on the little blue
disabled vehicles you used to see around the UK.
 
Mjolinor wrote:
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40BAD4E9.F55@armory.com...
Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAA58A.2868@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40B968B1.55B9@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

Anyway, the truck featured a Cummins 6 cylinder diesel engine
similar to the GMC 671 series diesel engine. It had similar
displacement, (about 71 cu inches per cylinder), and 6 cylinders.
Of course the Cummins did not have a supercharger like the GMC,
but
since the GMC is a 2 cycle diesel, it has to have a supercharger.
Anyway the engine was idling and when I applied 12 volts to the
rotor of the alternator with it's output shunted directly to
ground,
the engine stalled and stopped almost as if one had shut off the
fuel. Yes, the fuel shutoff valve was bypassed just to make sure
there was no doubt that this was NOT a rigged demo.
--------------------
Why is this surprising?? You just invented an electric brake!


If you want another unbelieveable true story, let me tell you
about
the time I fired up a GMC engine in a International truck and it
started running backwards. Smoke was pouring out the intake and
it
lacked all manner of power. Reverse was forward and forward gear
was reverse. Once I figured out what was going on, I shut it off,
restarted and everything was fine.

r
-------------------
How was it running backwards? The 4-stroke cycle doesn't permit
this!
Sounds like an urban legend. Do you mean the starter turned it
backwards, why was the bettery reversed?

-Steve

It is not an urban legend. I was there. I started it, I tried to
drive it. The year was circa 1975. It was a cold day with snow on
the ground.
The foremans last name was Fang. Had efficiency experts come there
once. They worked for a company called Proudfoot. No urban legend
here.

All of the GMC engines that I have ever worked with are 2 cycle
engines. That includes their very large locomotive and marine
engines.
(Yes I worked for Electro-motive for a while as a Locomotive
Electrician) That also includes their 53 series engine which boasts
53
cubic inches displacement per cylinder. That little workhorse is
pretty amazing. That particular engine was used in a piece of
equiment
commonly called a Straddle-Buggy. Made by Hi-Jack? Corp who has
offices in Hazel Crest IL. The tires used on that bit of equiment
were
used commercial aircraft tires. I digress, but GM's supercharged and
turbocharged (yes, both at once) 6 and 8 cylinder models are rather
special too.

The engine in question was a GMC engine. A series 871 if memory
serves
me right. If it wasn't a 871 it was a 671. (we had 1671 series as
well..16 cylinders at 71 cubic inches per cylinder. See Euclid
R-50.)
What happened was that the starter was not engaged for the proper
length of time and the resultant "kickback" had enough energy to
start
the engine rotating and firing backwards. This mode of operation is
not recommended due to the lack of oil pressure. Yes, I noticed that
there was no oil pressure on the gauge, but since so many things
didn't
work when it was unknowingly run backwards, I figured that is why it
was brought to the shop. It wasn't until I tried to move it and the
vehicle travelled the opposite direction of what was clearly marked
on
the transmission shift pattern plate, that I realized what had
happened. That was a few careers ago. Many things have changed
since
then.
------------------
How does that occur even with the 2-stroke cycle, doesn't it require
that leave valves run backasswards? Or what kind of valve is that
silly thing, is this like those Detroit's that are 2-stroke?

-Steve

Steve,

I am not sure what your question is about valves. The exhaust valves
are
just like any other engine valve operated from a camshaft.

Detroit Diesel is a 2 cycle diesel engine. Detroit Diesel is a division
of General Motors. Hence the nick names of GMC Diesel and Jimmy Diesel.
There are a few others but can't remember what they are. The GMC
engines
are designed to be worked hard. If you baby them, there will be all
manner of issues like oil consumption, fuel dilution, etc. There are
many
divisions of GM Corp.
--------------------------
Okay, I had heard the Detroit had leaf air-input valves like a silly
lawn mower. If it has regular valves, still, doesn't the valve timing
prevent it from running backwards?

-Steve

Not all designs of two stroke engine will run backwards but some will. I
don't know why they should spew smoke out the inlet though.

They will run backwards if forced because the valves are timed by the
movement of the piston not the rotation of the crankshaft.
----------------
Click to expand...
How in the world is THAT achieved?? Valves are timed by the crankshaft!
They fire on the exhaust-intake stroke?? How do they get enough pressure
with those valves open?


The piston goes
up and down the same irrespective of the rotation direction of the
crankshaft.
------------------
Click to expand...
Yes, but the valves have to work the same.


The Villiers 11E two stroke engine used a reversing starter
motor to start the engine the other way round for reverse on the little blue
disabled vehicles you used to see around the UK.
----------------------
Click to expand...
Ah, I see, you just mean that it will "diesel" backwards a few turns
and that the injectors will also run backwards! That would explain it
somewhat, but I'm surprised you can actually get any power out of a
Detroit that way.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public
 
Ed Price wrote:

There has been much noise and warm air about micro generation techniques.
Little useful will come from this speculation before the OP states what kind
of load and duty cycle he needs.
Click to expand...
Indeed, this type of energy generation is more often used than for this
particular purpose. Thus, try to look elsewhere for solutions.

But a car alternator is a bad choice for reasons of efficiency, as they
are designed for lower efficiency at higher RPM to prevent overcurrent -
and for low cost. A permanent magnet motor will be a lot better.

And, solar will always give some power during daytime, even if there is
'no sunshine'.


Thomas
 
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40BAFF88.3B1E@armory.com...
Mjolinor wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40BAD4E9.F55@armory.com...
Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAA58A.2868@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40B968B1.55B9@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

Anyway, the truck featured a Cummins 6 cylinder diesel engine
similar to the GMC 671 series diesel engine. It had similar
displacement, (about 71 cu inches per cylinder), and 6
cylinders.
Of course the Cummins did not have a supercharger like the
GMC,
but
since the GMC is a 2 cycle diesel, it has to have a
supercharger.
Anyway the engine was idling and when I applied 12 volts to
the
rotor of the alternator with it's output shunted directly to
ground,
the engine stalled and stopped almost as if one had shut off
the
fuel. Yes, the fuel shutoff valve was bypassed just to make
sure
there was no doubt that this was NOT a rigged demo.
--------------------
Why is this surprising?? You just invented an electric brake!


If you want another unbelieveable true story, let me tell you
about
the time I fired up a GMC engine in a International truck and
it
started running backwards. Smoke was pouring out the intake
and
it
lacked all manner of power. Reverse was forward and forward
gear
was reverse. Once I figured out what was going on, I shut it
off,
restarted and everything was fine.

r
-------------------
How was it running backwards? The 4-stroke cycle doesn't permit
this!
Sounds like an urban legend. Do you mean the starter turned it
backwards, why was the bettery reversed?

-Steve

It is not an urban legend. I was there. I started it, I tried
to
drive it. The year was circa 1975. It was a cold day with snow
on
the ground.
The foremans last name was Fang. Had efficiency experts come
there
once. They worked for a company called Proudfoot. No urban
legend
here.

All of the GMC engines that I have ever worked with are 2 cycle
engines. That includes their very large locomotive and marine
engines.
(Yes I worked for Electro-motive for a while as a Locomotive
Electrician) That also includes their 53 series engine which
boasts
53
cubic inches displacement per cylinder. That little workhorse is
pretty amazing. That particular engine was used in a piece of
equiment
commonly called a Straddle-Buggy. Made by Hi-Jack? Corp who has
offices in Hazel Crest IL. The tires used on that bit of equiment
were
used commercial aircraft tires. I digress, but GM's supercharged
and
turbocharged (yes, both at once) 6 and 8 cylinder models are
rather
special too.

The engine in question was a GMC engine. A series 871 if memory
serves
me right. If it wasn't a 871 it was a 671. (we had 1671 series
as
well..16 cylinders at 71 cubic inches per cylinder. See Euclid
R-50.)
What happened was that the starter was not engaged for the proper
length of time and the resultant "kickback" had enough energy to
start
the engine rotating and firing backwards. This mode of operation
is
not recommended due to the lack of oil pressure. Yes, I noticed
that
there was no oil pressure on the gauge, but since so many things
didn't
work when it was unknowingly run backwards, I figured that is why
it
was brought to the shop. It wasn't until I tried to move it and
the
vehicle travelled the opposite direction of what was clearly
marked
on
the transmission shift pattern plate, that I realized what had
happened. That was a few careers ago. Many things have changed
since
then.
------------------
How does that occur even with the 2-stroke cycle, doesn't it
require
that leave valves run backasswards? Or what kind of valve is that
silly thing, is this like those Detroit's that are 2-stroke?

-Steve

Steve,

I am not sure what your question is about valves. The exhaust
valves
are
just like any other engine valve operated from a camshaft.

Detroit Diesel is a 2 cycle diesel engine. Detroit Diesel is a
division
of General Motors. Hence the nick names of GMC Diesel and Jimmy
Diesel.
There are a few others but can't remember what they are. The GMC
engines
are designed to be worked hard. If you baby them, there will be all
manner of issues like oil consumption, fuel dilution, etc. There
are
many
divisions of GM Corp.
--------------------------
Okay, I had heard the Detroit had leaf air-input valves like a silly
lawn mower. If it has regular valves, still, doesn't the valve timing
prevent it from running backwards?

-Steve

Not all designs of two stroke engine will run backwards but some will. I
don't know why they should spew smoke out the inlet though.

They will run backwards if forced because the valves are timed by the
movement of the piston not the rotation of the crankshaft.
----------------
How in the world is THAT achieved?? Valves are timed by the crankshaft!
They fire on the exhaust-intake stroke?? How do they get enough pressure
with those valves open?


The piston goes
up and down the same irrespective of the rotation direction of the
crankshaft.
------------------
Yes, but the valves have to work the same.


The Villiers 11E two stroke engine used a reversing starter
motor to start the engine the other way round for reverse on the little
blue
disabled vehicles you used to see around the UK.
----------------------
Ah, I see, you just mean that it will "diesel" backwards a few turns
and that the injectors will also run backwards! That would explain it
somewhat, but I'm surprised you can actually get any power out of a
Detroit that way.

-Steve
Click to expand...
The valves on a two stroke angine are not allways controlled by the
crankshaft. They are in some engines but in some engines the valves are
opened and closed as the piston moved past an opening in the side of the
cylinder. They tend not to be called "valves" but are more normally known as
"ports" but the job they do is to allow fuel air mix into the combustion
chamber and to allow burnt gases out of the exhaust. Because the opening and
closing of these "valves" is related to piston, not crankshaft, the engine
doesn't mind which way it goes and it has to be started in the right
direction.
 
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAFF88.3B1E@armory.com:

Mjolinor wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40BAD4E9.F55@armory.com...
Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40BAA58A.2868@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in
news:40B968B1.55B9@armory.com:

Rich.Andrews wrote:

Anyway, the truck featured a Cummins 6 cylinder diesel engine
similar to the GMC 671 series diesel engine. It had similar
displacement, (about 71 cu inches per cylinder), and 6
cylinders. Of course the Cummins did not have a supercharger
like the GMC,
but
since the GMC is a 2 cycle diesel, it has to have a
supercharger. Anyway the engine was idling and when I applied
12 volts to the rotor of the alternator with it's output
shunted directly to
ground,
the engine stalled and stopped almost as if one had shut off
the fuel. Yes, the fuel shutoff valve was bypassed just to
make sure there was no doubt that this was NOT a rigged demo.
--------------------
Why is this surprising?? You just invented an electric brake!


If you want another unbelieveable true story, let me tell you
about
the time I fired up a GMC engine in a International truck and
it started running backwards. Smoke was pouring out the
intake and
it
lacked all manner of power. Reverse was forward and forward
gear was reverse. Once I figured out what was going on, I
shut it off, restarted and everything was fine.

r
-------------------
How was it running backwards? The 4-stroke cycle doesn't
permit
this!
Sounds like an urban legend. Do you mean the starter turned it
backwards, why was the bettery reversed?

-Steve

It is not an urban legend. I was there. I started it, I tried
to drive it. The year was circa 1975. It was a cold day with
snow on the ground.
The foremans last name was Fang. Had efficiency experts come
there once. They worked for a company called Proudfoot. No
urban legend here.

All of the GMC engines that I have ever worked with are 2 cycle
engines. That includes their very large locomotive and marine
engines.
(Yes I worked for Electro-motive for a while as a Locomotive
Electrician) That also includes their 53 series engine which
boasts
53
cubic inches displacement per cylinder. That little workhorse
is pretty amazing. That particular engine was used in a piece
of
equiment
commonly called a Straddle-Buggy. Made by Hi-Jack? Corp who has
offices in Hazel Crest IL. The tires used on that bit of
equiment
were
used commercial aircraft tires. I digress, but GM's
supercharged and turbocharged (yes, both at once) 6 and 8
cylinder models are rather special too.

The engine in question was a GMC engine. A series 871 if memory
serves
me right. If it wasn't a 871 it was a 671. (we had 1671 series
as well..16 cylinders at 71 cubic inches per cylinder. See
Euclid
R-50.)
What happened was that the starter was not engaged for the
proper length of time and the resultant "kickback" had enough
energy to
start
the engine rotating and firing backwards. This mode of
operation is not recommended due to the lack of oil pressure.
Yes, I noticed that there was no oil pressure on the gauge, but
since so many things
didn't
work when it was unknowingly run backwards, I figured that is
why it was brought to the shop. It wasn't until I tried to move
it and the vehicle travelled the opposite direction of what was
clearly marked
on
the transmission shift pattern plate, that I realized what had
happened. That was a few careers ago. Many things have changed
since
then.
------------------
How does that occur even with the 2-stroke cycle, doesn't it
require that leave valves run backasswards? Or what kind of valve
is that silly thing, is this like those Detroit's that are
2-stroke?

-Steve

Steve,

I am not sure what your question is about valves. The exhaust
valves
are
just like any other engine valve operated from a camshaft.

Detroit Diesel is a 2 cycle diesel engine. Detroit Diesel is a
division of General Motors. Hence the nick names of GMC Diesel and
Jimmy Diesel. There are a few others but can't remember what they
are. The GMC
engines
are designed to be worked hard. If you baby them, there will be
all manner of issues like oil consumption, fuel dilution, etc.
There are
many
divisions of GM Corp.
--------------------------
Okay, I had heard the Detroit had leaf air-input valves like a silly
lawn mower. If it has regular valves, still, doesn't the valve timing
prevent it from running backwards?

-Steve

Not all designs of two stroke engine will run backwards but some will.
I don't know why they should spew smoke out the inlet though.

They will run backwards if forced because the valves are timed by the
movement of the piston not the rotation of the crankshaft.
----------------
How in the world is THAT achieved?? Valves are timed by the crankshaft!
They fire on the exhaust-intake stroke?? How do they get enough pressure
with those valves open?


The piston goes
up and down the same irrespective of the rotation direction of the
crankshaft.
------------------
Yes, but the valves have to work the same.


The Villiers 11E two stroke engine used a reversing starter
motor to start the engine the other way round for reverse on the little
blue disabled vehicles you used to see around the UK.
----------------------
Ah, I see, you just mean that it will "diesel" backwards a few turns
and that the injectors will also run backwards! That would explain it
somewhat, but I'm surprised you can actually get any power out of a
Detroit that way.

-Steve
Click to expand...
Steve,

Power is greatly diminished for a variety of reasons when the engine is
running backwards. The injectors running backwards? Many injectors are
operated by a cam and pushrod.

Here is a diagram that shows the 2 cycle diesel engine in action.

http://www.marinediesels.co.uk/

r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.
 
"Robin" <Robin@HimalayanHandicraft.org> wrote in message
news:af190b62.0405282214.1c145968@posting.google.com...
Hello All,

I do some volunteer work that provides rural villagers in Nepal with
WiFi communication (See http://NepalWireless.net if you are
interested). As part of this work, we need to develop a human powered
generator to charge our solar batteries when there is no sun for
months on end. Is a car alternator and a bicycle a possibility? How
much current/voltage does a typical alternator produce and what RPM is
necessary? These are both readily available in Nepal, so they would
be idea. Thanks very much.

Robin Shields
Click to expand...
Stepper motoors can be used as well They act loke altenators. Another idea
is to wind power I have seen this down with vertical wings on a frame that
could drive the alternator?
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message news:0bzuc.12368:
snip
Click to expand...
: Well, I know there's more than 8 cubic cubits in a stere.
: Cheers! Rich
:


1 stere = 6.9444444 cubic cubit [ancient egypt]
 
Power is greatly diminished for a variety of reasons when the engine is
running backwards. The injectors running backwards? Many injectors are
operated by a cam and pushrod.

Here is a diagram that shows the 2 cycle diesel engine in action.

http://www.marinediesels.co.uk/
Click to expand...
That moving diagram is wrong. An engine like that wouldn't run unless there
is a supercharger on it providing greater than atmoshperic pressure in the
crankcase. The primary inlet should be closed by some means as the piston
starts to descend.
 
"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:T5Kuc.2505$zP2.1833@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message news:0bzuc.12368:

snip
: Well, I know there's more than 8 cubic cubits in a stere.
: Cheers! Rich
:


1 stere = 6.9444444 cubic cubit [ancient egypt]


According to my crossword puzzle dictionary, a stere is equal to one
Click to expand...
cubic meter. Since a meter is 39.37 inches, and a cubit is 18, well,
just off the top of your head: one cube just over a yard, and one
cube 1/2 yard on an edge, that's a volume of 1 cu. yd+ vs.
(1/2)*(1/2)*(1/2), or 1/8 cu. yd. Ergo, more than 8 cubic cubits in
a stere. I guess I was talking about the modern stere, or something.

Thanks!
Rich
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:9CKuc.15443$oh7.14817@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:T5Kuc.2505$zP2.1833@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...

"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message news:0bzuc.12368:

snip
: Well, I know there's more than 8 cubic cubits in a stere.
: Cheers! Rich
:


1 stere = 6.9444444 cubic cubit [ancient egypt]


According to my crossword puzzle dictionary, a stere is equal to one
cubic meter. Since a meter is 39.37 inches, and a cubit is 18, well,
just off the top of your head: one cube just over a yard, and one
cube 1/2 yard on an edge, that's a volume of 1 cu. yd+ vs.
(1/2)*(1/2)*(1/2), or 1/8 cu. yd. Ergo, more than 8 cubic cubits in
a stere. I guess I was talking about the modern stere, or something.

Thanks!
Rich


I thought a stere was an American bovine
Click to expand...
 
In article <1ELuc.1485$Zo1.256@newsfe6-gui.server.ntli.net>,
"Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com> wrote:


I thought a stere was an American bovine
Click to expand...
Close...
An American bovine that has had its testicles removed and replaced with
a minor spelling problem. :)

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
I respond to Email as quick as humanly possible. If you Email me and get no
response, see <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> Short
form: I'm trashing EVERYTHING that doesn't contain a password in the subject.
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:9CKuc.15443$oh7.14817@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
: "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
: news:T5Kuc.2505$zP2.1833@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
: >
: > "Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:0bzuc.12368:
: > >
: > <snip>
: > : Well, I know there's more than 8 cubic cubits in a stere.
: > : Cheers! Rich
: > :
: >
: >
: > 1 stere = 6.9444444 cubic cubit [ancient egypt]
: >
: >
: According to my crossword puzzle dictionary, a stere is equal to
one
: cubic meter. Since a meter is 39.37 inches, and a cubit is 18,
well,
: just off the top of your head: one cube just over a yard, and
one
: cube 1/2 yard on an edge, that's a volume of 1 cu. yd+ vs.
: (1/2)*(1/2)*(1/2), or 1/8 cu. yd. Ergo, more than 8 cubic cubits
in
: a stere. I guess I was talking about the modern stere, or
something.
:
: Thanks!
: Rich


Your right, the modern cubit is 18 inches, just pulling your leg!
 
Scott Wiper wrote:

Stepper motoors can be used as well They act loke altenators. Another idea
is to wind power I have seen this down with vertical wings on a frame that
could drive the alternator?
Click to expand...
Stepper motors have very low efficiency. I would look at a permanent
magnet based washing machine motor.


Thomas
 
I assume you use the SFF system of units Stone-Furlong- Fortnight :) which
is quite legitimate. :)
Don Kelly
dhky@peeshaw.ca
remove the urine to answer
--

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:QRxuc.2319$MJ5.1603@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
X-No-Archive: yes
"Mjolinor" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : > "Mjolinor" wrote
: > : > : "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: > : > : > "A prime example of true British Thinking!"
:
: > : > : > Cubic meters? How about cubic "cubits?"
: > : > : That one went over my head
: > : > A Cubit is about 18 inches, so a cubic Cubit would be
about a
: > : > quarter the volume of a cubic meter. (See conversions)
Not
: > : > likely a single ox would produce a large volume of Methane
gas
: > : > what you could meter in cu Meters!
: > :
: > : > Looses a lot in translation!
: > :
: > : It certainly does because that one went over my head as
well.
: > :
: > : yes I would have thought that as it was cubic meters
initially
: > : then it would be more correct to quote a cubit to be
slightly
: > : over 457 mm. I suspect the volume would be the same whether
: > : measured in cubic meters or cubic cubits or maybe some other
: > : antiquated units like cubic inches, cubic feet or maybe
: > : cubic furlongs is to your taste. :)
:
: > A meter is 39.3700787 inch so 18 about inches is close enough
for
: > government work!
: > Cubic Chains "Or" Fathoms, I use them all! They are all
valid.
: > Like "Stones" in England!
:
snip
: > The point was that the "British Thinking" is over stated in
grand
: > terms and about manure!
: I still don't see it :)
:
: > I see that implied humor does not play well on the news group
: > unless you add :)>) to every instance! So the reader knows to
: > expect some obscure humor or innuendo!
:
: Implied humor worked fine for me in all the posts.
:
: As a user of "stones" I find it kind of hard to measure volume
with it.

If you agree that "stones" are a legitimate unit of measure, you
got it. I did not suggest that you could convert Cubic measure to
stones, rather that all are legitimate units!

I find it interesting that many people read into the posts much
which is not stated in the post nor even implied!
Click to expand...
 
"Zak" <jute@zak.invalid> wrote in message
news:mKMuc.944$9n5.403@amstwist00...
Scott Wiper wrote:

Stepper motors can be used as well They act lot like altenators. Another
idea
is to wind power I have seen this down with vertical wings on a frame
that
could drive the alternator?

Stepper motors have very low efficiency. I would look at a permanent
magnet based washing machine motor.

Thomas
Click to expand...
Point taken... They are just to low current.

But back to the vertical areofoils on a rotating frame. These can generate
several horse power with wind from any direction and should be governed
because they can get up to very high speeds.

This type of windmill acts like heleicopter rotors blades when the pitch
them for auto rotation when they stop the engine or it fails. In this case
they are vertical and pitched to rotate in a circle even in light winds.
 
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