Captain Stupid strikes again...

  • Thread starter William Sommerwerck
  • Start date
"Arfa Daily"
However, laws are complex and arbitrary things, open to interpretation.
Toggle switches are about the simplest piece of hardware you could
imagine, whose functional definition and operating characteristics, are
not open to even the slightest 'interpretation' by anyone other than a
fool. I wonder whether this has come about as a result of some Chinese or
Korean linguistic 'mis-interpretation' ?
Click to expand...

** Imagine this conversation:

Chinese purchasing officer to C&K salesperson:

" OK so your SPDT switches are shown as ON in both positions -

so how do you switch them off ? "



.... Phil
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??


Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection" ?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is 'likely' to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other than two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not *quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa
Click to expand...

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.
 
"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Jerry Peters" <jerry@example.invalid> wrote in message news:l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??


Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra >>>> pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection" ?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is 'likely' >> to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other than >> two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly >> true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not >> *quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.


Ah, ok. They must be something special to your side of the pond (assuming
that's the left, of course ...) Can't say that I've ever seen a three
position wall switch for dimming, nor a four position one, here. I've
just checked a catalogue that sells electrical fittings, and nothing like that offered.

Arfa
Click to expand...

I had one three position diode light switch in the basement. The problem,
some people would not turn it fully off, and leave it in the center.

Greg
 
Jeff Liebermann har bragt dette til os:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.
Click to expand...

I find it fairly obvious.
What is the connections in the center position?
Answer: "It is OFF" -> A 3-position switch, center position OFF
Answer: "It is NONE" -> A 2-position switch, there is NO center
position

An X would be less obvious.
Answer: "It is X" -> I don't know / Crossed over / ????

At least you will only make this mistake once ;-)

Not to insult you, but are you self-taught, or have you formal
education in electronics, or some sort of apprenticeship? You should
have learned the meaning of switch-nomenclature there.

Leif

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
 
"Jerry Peters" <jerry@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??


Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra
pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection" ?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is 'likely'
to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other than
two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly
true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not
*quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. They must be something special to your side of the pond (assuming
that's the left, of course ...) Can't say that I've ever seen a three
position wall switch for dimming, nor a four position one, here. I've just
checked a catalogue that sells electrical fittings, and nothing like that
offered.

Arfa
 
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Jerry Peters
<jerry@example.invalid> wrote in Message id: <l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me>:

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.
Click to expand...

Odd, I have one of those in the bathroom, but the *center* position is
off. Probably from the 1930's or 1940's, but I'm just guessing. The house
originally built in 1850 is knob and tube wiring, much of it replaced with
Romex.
 
"Leif Neland" wrote in message news:mn.f9a67dda8e0c0029.130671@neland.dk...

Not to insult you, but are you self-taught, or have you formal education in
electronics, or some sort of apprenticeship? You
should have learned the meaning of switch-nomenclature there.
Click to expand...

No insult taken.

The problem is that the use of NONE appears to be new, something I wasn't
aware of, as I haven't bought switches in several years.

The implication of NONE is that there's a third position with no electrical
connection. Of course, that isn't it at all. Hence the confusion.
 
On 10/30/2013 01:19 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??


Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection" ?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is 'likely' to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other than two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not *quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.
Click to expand...
I was just wondering where the 4th contact would go on the 3 contact
light switch.
 
"JW" wrote in message news:eek:s747954tm4gkpj9374rd1v9ujhis3sbk0@4ax.com...
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Jerry Peters
<jerry@example.invalid> wrote in Message id: <l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me>:

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

Odd, I have one of those in the bathroom, but the *center* position is
off. Probably from the 1930's or 1940's, but I'm just guessing.
Click to expand...

So there are two ON positions and one OFF?
 
On 10/30/2013 07:11 PM, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Jerry Peters" <jerry@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf





ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions
- ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??


Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra
pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port
switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection"
?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is
'likely' to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other
than two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly
true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three
connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not
*quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.


Ah, ok. They must be something special to your side of the pond
(assuming that's the left, of course ...) Can't say that I've ever seen
a three position wall switch for dimming, nor a four position one, here.
I've just checked a catalogue that sells electrical fittings, and
nothing like that offered.

Arfa
Click to expand...

The imagination is a wonderful thing, but there are a lot of variations
on the wall mounted lamp dimmer, and 99% make my radios buzz.
 
In article <l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me>, Jerry Peters
<jerry@example.invalid> writes

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.
Click to expand...

We call those intermediate switches in the UK (in the context of
premises wiring).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch

scroll down to the "Contact terminology" table.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
dave <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 10/30/2013 01:19 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??


Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection" ?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is 'likely' to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other than two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not *quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa

There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

There are also "4-way" switches available for controlling a light from
more than 2 locations.

I was just wondering where the 4th contact would go on the 3 contact
light switch.
Click to expand...

The two ends, use 3-way switches, the 4-way switches go in series in
the 2 "hot" conductors between the 3-ways. The 4-way switch just
exchanges the 2 poles. Say you have inputs 1 & 2 and outputs A & B,
the two positions are Position 1: 1->A, 2->B Position 2: 1->B, 2->A.
 
JW <none@dev.null> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Jerry Peters
jerry@example.invalid> wrote in Message id: <l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me>:


There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

Odd, I have one of those in the bathroom, but the *center* position is
off. Probably from the 1930's or 1940's, but I'm just guessing. The house
originally built in 1850 is knob and tube wiring, much of it replaced with
Romex.
Click to expand...

You may be right, perhaps it was center off. I replaced it for my dad
with a regular toggle type dimmer at least 10 years ago. That's the
only one I've ever seen, the house was built in 1984-85.
 
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 07:02:00 +0100, Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk>
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann har bragt dette til os:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.

I find it fairly obvious.
What is the connections in the center position?
Answer: "It is OFF" -> A 3-position switch, center position OFF
Answer: "It is NONE" -> A 2-position switch, there is NO center
position

An X would be less obvious.
Answer: "It is X" -> I don't know / Crossed over / ????
Click to expand...

Ok, something other than an "X" such as a blank box on the data sheet.
In my warped mind, "NONE" means "no connection" or "not connected"
which sorta implies that there is a terminal or position present.
Perhaps organizing the data sheet by the number of positions, instead
of the number of poles, might have been useful.

>At least you will only make this mistake once ;-)

I never make the same mistake twice. It takes about 5 or 10 times for
me to get the clue.

Not to insult you, but are you self-taught, or have you formal
education in electronics, or some sort of apprenticeship? You should
have learned the meaning of switch-nomenclature there.
Click to expand...

BSEE 1971 from Cal Poly, Pomona.
I think there's somewhat of a resume on LinkedIn:
<http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=2037517>
The education part got truncated when LinkedIn morphed into looking
like Facebook. Add CSU Northridge add Santa Monica City College. None
of my post employement consulting jobs are listed. For additional
entertainment, search for my name in Google Groups:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!search/Jeff$20Liebermann>
Hmmm... 82541 postings. However, you are correct about being
self-taught. Most of what I learned that was useful was post
graduation, when I discovered that I really didn't know everything. I
read, design, built, and of course, repair.

Should it really require a formal education in electronics to decode a
toggle switch data sheet? I don't think so.

Rhetorical question: What's the schematic symbol for a center off
switch? I couldn't find anything definitive:
<http://www.edrawsoft.com/switch-symbols.php>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
Jeff Liebermann skrev:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 07:02:00 +0100, Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann har bragt dette til os:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.

I find it fairly obvious.
What is the connections in the center position?
Answer: "It is OFF" -> A 3-position switch, center position OFF
Answer: "It is NONE" -> A 2-position switch, there is NO center
position

An X would be less obvious.
Answer: "It is X" -> I don't know / Crossed over / ????

Ok, something other than an "X" such as a blank box on the data sheet.
In my warped mind, "NONE" means "no connection" or "not connected"
which sorta implies that there is a terminal or position present.
Perhaps organizing the data sheet by the number of positions, instead
of the number of poles, might have been useful.
Click to expand...

No connection is NC

Rhetorical question: What's the schematic symbol for a center off
switch? I couldn't find anything definitive:
http://www.edrawsoft.com/switch-symbols.php
Click to expand...

I'd make the viper of the switch rest on a non-connected dot or circle.

Leif

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
 
On 10/31/2013 11:51 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 07:02:00 +0100, Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann har bragt dette til os:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.

I find it fairly obvious.
What is the connections in the center position?
Answer: "It is OFF" -> A 3-position switch, center position OFF
Answer: "It is NONE" -> A 2-position switch, there is NO center
position

An X would be less obvious.
Answer: "It is X" -> I don't know / Crossed over / ????

Ok, something other than an "X" such as a blank box on the data sheet.
In my warped mind, "NONE" means "no connection" or "not connected"
which sorta implies that there is a terminal or position present.
Perhaps organizing the data sheet by the number of positions, instead
of the number of poles, might have been useful.

At least you will only make this mistake once ;-)

I never make the same mistake twice. It takes about 5 or 10 times for
me to get the clue.

Not to insult you, but are you self-taught, or have you formal
education in electronics, or some sort of apprenticeship? You should
have learned the meaning of switch-nomenclature there.

BSEE 1971 from Cal Poly, Pomona.
I think there's somewhat of a resume on LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=2037517
The education part got truncated when LinkedIn morphed into looking
like Facebook. Add CSU Northridge add Santa Monica City College. None
of my post employement consulting jobs are listed. For additional
entertainment, search for my name in Google Groups:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!search/Jeff$20Liebermann
Hmmm... 82541 postings. However, you are correct about being
self-taught. Most of what I learned that was useful was post
graduation, when I discovered that I really didn't know everything. I
read, design, built, and of course, repair.

Should it really require a formal education in electronics to decode a
toggle switch data sheet? I don't think so.

Rhetorical question: What's the schematic symbol for a center off
switch? I couldn't find anything definitive:
http://www.edrawsoft.com/switch-symbols.php
Click to expand...

Would "n/a" have worked for you?
 
On 10/31/2013 12:15 PM, Leif Neland wrote:
Jeff Liebermann skrev:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 07:02:00 +0100, Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann har bragt dette til os:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf


Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.

I find it fairly obvious.
What is the connections in the center position?
Answer: "It is OFF" -> A 3-position switch, center position OFF
Answer: "It is NONE" -> A 2-position switch, there is NO center position

An X would be less obvious.
Answer: "It is X" -> I don't know / Crossed over / ????

Ok, something other than an "X" such as a blank box on the data sheet.
In my warped mind, "NONE" means "no connection" or "not connected"
which sorta implies that there is a terminal or position present.
Perhaps organizing the data sheet by the number of positions, instead
of the number of poles, might have been useful.

No connection is NC


Rhetorical question: What's the schematic symbol for a center off
switch? I couldn't find anything definitive:
http://www.edrawsoft.com/switch-symbols.php

I'd make the viper of the switch rest on a non-connected dot or circle.

Leif
Click to expand...

It's damn near impossible to get a rattler to do tricks.
 
JW <none@dev.null> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Jerry Peters
jerry@example.invalid> wrote in Message id: <l4rpl7$48n$1@dont-email.me>:


There are 3 position wall switches available. The middle position puts
a diode in series to dim the lights, full-on bypasses the diode. My
parents had one of these switches in their dining room, until the
diode opened, when it was replaced with a regular dimmer.

Odd, I have one of those in the bathroom, but the *center* position is
off. Probably from the 1930's or 1940's, but I'm just guessing. The house
originally built in 1850 is knob and tube wiring, much of it replaced with
Romex.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it, it may have been center off. Oh boy, knob and tube.
I'm trying to deal with that right now.

Greg
 
"Leif Neland" <leif@neland.dk> wrote in message
news:mn.f9a67dda8e0c0029.130671@neland.dk...
Jeff Liebermann har bragt dette til os:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.

I find it fairly obvious.
What is the connections in the center position?
Answer: "It is OFF" -> A 3-position switch, center position OFF
Answer: "It is NONE" -> A 2-position switch, there is NO center position

An X would be less obvious.
Answer: "It is X" -> I don't know / Crossed over / ????

At least you will only make this mistake once ;-)

Not to insult you, but are you self-taught, or have you formal education
in electronics, or some sort of apprenticeship? You should have learned
the meaning of switch-nomenclature there.

Leif
Click to expand...

We all learnt the meaning of switch nomenclature at college, and that wasn't
it ...

Arfa
 
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:dk1679198u4i5vdnkamqmps0scn5h3leiu@4ax.com...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 20:15:57 +0100, Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk
wrote:

No connection is NC

True. Unfortunately, this doesn't solve any of the problems and
questions I mentioned.

Rhetorical question: What's the schematic symbol for a center off
switch? I couldn't find anything definitive:
http://www.edrawsoft.com/switch-symbols.php

I'd make the viper of the switch rest on a non-connected dot or circle.

I was hoping to find something in IEC 60617 or ANSI Y32.16 specs.

Incidentally, the proper designation seems to be SPCO (single pole
center off)
Click to expand...

SPCO can also stand for Single Pole Change Over ... :-(

Arfa
 
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