Captain Stupid strikes again...

[William Sommerwerck]

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON.

Duh...


"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right questions."
-- Edwin Land

 

[gregz]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON.

Duh...


"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right questions."
-- Edwin Land

How about on-on-on .

What does It use ?

I have a tendency to want to eliminate any controls, especially pots, yuk.

After assembling, then dissembling cabinets many times while testing
values, I started to mount the crossover on the outside for one of a kind
speakers !

Greg

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"gregz" wrote in message
news:799530162404612625.061677zekor-comcast.net@news.eternal-september.org...

> How about on-on-on?

That would be a DP3T.

> What does It use?

DPDT, ON-OFF-ON.

> I have a tendency to want to eliminate any controls, especially pots, yuk.

It has no pots. The switch controls the tweeter level.

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwerck"

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON.

Duh...

** The use of "none" in the descriptions of toggle switches seems to be a
new thing.

Google tells me that several makers are doing it but not when it was they
conspired to do so.

My Farnell catalogue (about 2 years old) has no such "none" sense in it.




.... Phil

 

[dave]

On 10/27/2013 08:16 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"William Sommerwerck"

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON.

Duh...


** The use of "none" in the descriptions of toggle switches seems to be a
new thing.

Google tells me that several makers are doing it but not when it was they
conspired to do so.

My Farnell catalogue (about 2 years old) has no such "none" sense in it.




... Phil

2 states v 3 states, no?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bd638dFkch0U1@mid.individual.net...
"William Sommerwerck"

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and
ON-OFF-ON. Duh...

The use of "none" in the descriptions of toggle switches seems to be a new
thing.
Google tells me that several makers are doing it but not when it was they
conspired to do so.
My Farnell catalogue (about 2 years old) has no such "none" sense in it.

I discovered my seeming ignorance when I read a catalog page that treated all
double-throw switches as if they had /three/ positions. Those /without/ a
center position received the NONE description.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"dave" wrote in message
news:ObSdnaTmo5XDx_PPnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> 2 states v 3 states, no?

No. Two positions versus three positions for a double-throw toggle.

NONE is for a two-position switch, OFF is for a "double-throw" switch with a
center position in which nothing is connected.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 06:38:23 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON.

Duh...

Huh? Assuming a 3 position switch, and that it is impossible to have
a make before break feature in a 3 position switch, the two
designations are identical. What am I missing here?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
newsl4t69tr5hgifucos7vuhg59bll7m7oljn@4ax.com...

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 06:38:23 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the
process, I discovered I didn't know the difference between
ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON. Duh...

Huh? Assuming a 3 position switch, and that it is impossible to
have a make before break feature in a 3 position switch, the two
designations are identical. What am I missing here?

You're missing the fact that ON-NONE-ON is a two-position switch. When I read
the spec sheet, and saw that ON-NONE-ON was two-position, and ON-OFF-ON was
three-position, for the same switch series, the light finally went on.

I can refer you to spec sheets, if you like.

 

[Leif Neland]

Jeff Liebermann forklarede:

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 06:38:23 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and ON-OFF-ON.

Duh...

Huh? Assuming a 3 position switch, and that it is impossible to have
a make before break feature in a 3 position switch,

Why would that be impossible? If the switch have 1 input and 3 outputs.

Leif

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

 

[John Robertson]

On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

>"Why change what properly describes the poles and action of
toggles switches, and what everyone has perfectly understood for probably a
hundred years ? ...."

You just don't get it. They must now "interpret" things like the Law and Constitution so everything is up for redefinition. Yes, that means you are all right and the world is all wrong.

Glad to be of help.

 

[Pilgrim]

In article <l4lunm$hua$1@dont-email.me>,
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bd638dFkch0U1@mid.individual.net...
"William Sommerwerck"

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process, I
discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and
ON-OFF-ON. Duh...

The use of "none" in the descriptions of toggle switches seems to be a new
thing.
Google tells me that several makers are doing it but not when it was they
conspired to do so.
My Farnell catalogue (about 2 years old) has no such "none" sense in it.

I discovered my seeming ignorance when I read a catalog page that treated all
double-throw switches as if they had /three/ positions. Those /without/ a
center position received the NONE description.

Have any of you ever run across what looks like a double pole double
throw that is actually a one pole three position?



1 T 2T T T T T
l /l /l /
l / l / l /
3 T/ 4T T/ l T/ T
l l l
l l l
5T 6T T T T T

fig 1 fig 2 fig 3

In all figures the hash marks between 3T and 2T represent an outside
shorting connection. The small case l's represent the "wiper" positions.
If you take 4T as the output and 1T,5T and 6T as inputs[or vise versa].
The Sw becomes a 1 pole 3 pos sw.

CP

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:l4lunm$hua$1@dont-email.me...

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bd638dFkch0U1@mid.individual.net...
"William Sommerwerck"

I've been selecting parts to upgrade a pair of Advents. In the process,
I discovered I didn't know the difference between ON-NONE-ON and
ON-OFF-ON. Duh...

The use of "none" in the descriptions of toggle switches seems to be a
new thing.
Google tells me that several makers are doing it but not when it was they
conspired to do so.
My Farnell catalogue (about 2 years old) has no such "none" sense in it.

I discovered my seeming ignorance when I read a catalog page that treated
all double-throw switches as if they had /three/ positions. Those
/without/ a center position received the NONE description.

I have not come across this, and it seems to me to be about the most
stupidly dopey change of spec for a component that could possibly have been
brought in. Why change what properly describes the poles and action of
toggles switches, and what everyone has perfectly understood for probably a
hundred years ?

Arfa

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:57:55 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf

Sigh. Got it. All the desktop publishing computer jocky that created
the data sheet could have done was to put a big "X" in place of the
"NONE", or possibly left the box blank, and there would not be any
confusion. Extra credit if they had added a column with the number of
positions. In any case, it's not very clear as the designation SPDT
could be 2 or 3 positions. Usually, it's marked SPDT center off, from
which the designer is expected to deduce that this is a 3 position
switch. Argh.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

wrote in message news:bfe7ae2b-aaaf-47c8-a564-8aca1a80cab9@googlegroups.com...

"Why change what properly describes the poles and action of
toggles switches, and what everyone has perfectly understood
for probably a hundred years? ...."

Agreed. I think most people understand that ON-ON describes a double-throw
switch with two positions, while ON-OFF-ON describes a double-throw switch
with three positions.

You just don't get it. They must now "interpret" things like the Law
and Constitution so everything is up for redefinition. Yes, that means
you are all right and the world is all wrong.

Courts have been interpreting the meaning and application of laws for hundreds
of years. This necessarily carries with it the interpretation of
constitutions.

 

[dave]

On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:

On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#

A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port
switch can be.)

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:l4octu$bn1$1@dont-email.me...

wrote in message
news:bfe7ae2b-aaaf-47c8-a564-8aca1a80cab9@googlegroups.com...

"Why change what properly describes the poles and action of
toggles switches, and what everyone has perfectly understood
for probably a hundred years? ...."

Agreed. I think most people understand that ON-ON describes a double-throw
switch with two positions, while ON-OFF-ON describes a double-throw switch
with three positions.

You just don't get it. They must now "interpret" things like the Law
and Constitution so everything is up for redefinition. Yes, that means
you are all right and the world is all wrong.

Courts have been interpreting the meaning and application of laws for
hundreds of years. This necessarily carries with it the interpretation of
constitutions.

However, laws are complex and arbitrary things, open to interpretation.
Toggle switches are about the simplest piece of hardware you could imagine,
whose functional definition and operating characteristics, are not open to
even the slightest 'interpretation' by anyone other than a fool. I wonder
whether this has come about as a result of some Chinese or Korean linguistic
'mis-interpretation' ?

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3YWdnY3Hqq-dUPLPnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

On 10/28/2013 02:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
On 10/28/2013 12:57 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
If anyone is still confused, look at page 2 of this document.

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/EATON_COMMERCIAL_CONTROLS/70155763.pdf




ON - None - ON simply means the DPDT switch only has TWO positions - ON
& ON with no center spot (OFF). Consider it ON (A circuit) and ON (B
circuit) relative to the commons.

Wouldn't that be 'or' rather than 'and' ??

Think of a 3-Way switch as used in house wiring - but with an extra pole
- then it is obvious.

John :-#)#


A "3 Way" switch in the wall is an SPDT (the only thing a 3 port switch
can be.)

Neither of those statements make any electrical sense to me at all. By
"three port" do you mean (more conventionally) "three connection" ?? If
so, then yes, if it's a wall switch, then the only thing it is 'likely' to
be is SPDT, as I have never seen a wall switch with anything other than two
positions. However, in the case of a toggle switch, it's not strictly true,
as there are versions with a centre "off" position, and three connections
also, which is how this thread came about. The "DT" bit is then not *quite*
the case. It then becomes SPDTCO ...

Arfa