Can an electronics student join?

[Clifford Heath]

On 18/07/14 10:56, RobertMacy wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:08:13 -0700, Chris <chris.863@live.com> wrote:
...snip...
Also prepare for lots of spam now that you used a real (apparently)
email address on your post. These groups are trawled by bots for email
addys...

you may notice my email address, somehow google doesn't let/put much
spam to this address, ...yet.

Google have always had a full-time team of people watching its spam
filters, which also have a lot of built-in AI. I don't think there's a
better spam filter available anywhere on the market.

 

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:57:55 PM UTC+1, michaelco...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone. I am an electronics student and in the process of learning, and I was wondering if I could join this group? I am thinking it would be a good way to learn more from others with more experience and maybe help me if I have a problem in school that I can't get answered easily. LOL. I wanted to pop in and ask before I joined.
Thanks,
Michael

This ng is a good way to learn. Ask, try things and suggest things. Build lots of stuff too. If your budget isn't generous, lots of bits can be had from electronic scrap. Why pay?

Read the cluster of sci.electronics newsgroups, they all have something to offer, though s.e.repair can get stupid on occasion.

Phil Allison seems to have decided everyone in the world is worth hating. Just ignore it. Take it as a lesson not to go down that path.

Build, build, build. I did, and by the time I left uni the difference between me and the folks that didn't do that was, what's the word, very evident.

And finally, understand that engineering is ultimately about money. Its all about how can we achieve this AND do it for less than the competition. Its not about all the bs people say it is to get folks' approval, its about money.

There are 2 goals in engineering: better and cheaper. Cheaper takes precendence 99% of the time. The adverts, packaging, sales talk and politician spew are 99% bullshit. Or is it 100.


NT

 

[MK]

On 18/07/2014 01:33, Tim Williams wrote:

"Chris" <chris.863@live.com> wrote in message
news:d3551c22-b755-4664-8f96-db85f5761620@googlegroups.com...
Just send the $40 registration fee to John Larkin.

I'll join you up for $35.00 ;-)

I'll do it for $50.00. Accept no substitute for quality enginnering.

Tim

I'll do it for $100 today or $10 when I get round to it (or tomorrow,
but wrong for $25)

Michael Kellett

 

>"Isn't there a newsgroup just for flaming? "

That would be a fairly accurate description of alt.revisionism.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 13:19:37 +0800, Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 19:36:12 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"This goddammed delusional narcissist again! "

You say that like it's a bad thing. I am used to it. If you think people
are bad here, try alt.revisionism.

Isn't there a newsgroup just for flaming?

Other than SED?

We do discuss beer now and then.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

On Friday, July 18, 2014 5:26:09 PM UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 02:31:13 -0700 (PDT), meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:57:55 PM UTC+1, michaelco...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone. I am an electronics student and in the process of learning, and I was wondering if I could join this group? I am thinking it would be a good way to learn more from others with more experience and maybe help me if I have a problem in school that I can't get answered easily. LOL. I wanted to pop in and ask before I joined.
Thanks,
Michael

This ng is a good way to learn. Ask, try things and suggest things. Build lots of stuff too. If your budget isn't generous, lots of bits can be had from electronic scrap. Why pay?

Read the cluster of sci.electronics newsgroups, they all have something to offer, though s.e.repair can get stupid on occasion.

Phil Allison seems to have decided everyone in the world is worth hating.. Just ignore it. Take it as a lesson not to go down that path.

He does get a little cranky now and then. Maybe it's the weather.

I think its his view on the world.

Build, build, build. I did, and by the time I left uni the difference between me and the folks that didn't do that was, what's the word, very evident.
yes! See below.

And finally, understand that engineering is ultimately about money. Its all about how can we achieve this AND do it for less than the competition. Its not about all the bs people say it is to get folks' approval, its about money.

For some people, it's about building beautiful things that work, and letting
somebody else (employers, customers) pay for it.

Yes... I was aware when writing it there are exceptions. 99% of the time its money though, so a strong eye on the bottom line is a real asset.

There are 2 goals in engineering: better and cheaper. Cheaper takes precendence 99% of the time. The adverts, packaging, sales talk and politician spew are 99% bullshit. Or is it 100.

If the OP is pre-college age, a ton of analog build-build will create good
qualtitative instincts. Then, when he gets hit with the college EE courses, a
heap of deliberately abstracted circuit theory and signals-and-systems math,
bells may ring for him that the other student miss. That's what happened to me.
The other guys kept taking notes and solving equations, but the math behind the
familiar circuits was a revelation to me.
Avoid a lot of coding. Everybody is doing that.

Yes, analogue is the area to go into now. Its an easy choice. The fashion is to think analogue is fast becoming obsolete, but its not and there's no likelihood of it doing so any decade soon. The result is a shortage of analog folks ahead. But if your skills/interests lie elsewhere, so be it.


NT

 

[amdx]

On 7/17/2014 7:06 PM, Joerg wrote:

krw@attt.bizz wrote:


I've interviewed many engineers. Among the freshly minted ones the
absolute best impression was when people dumped a bunch of circuit
boards on the table and explained what each does, and how. One client's
VP of Engineering saw me coming out of an interview after just 15
minutes or so. She wanted to know why I broke it off. "Oh no, this it
_the_ guy, do not even let him get back to his car without an offer
letter in his hand". That was probably around five years ago, he got
hired and is still there.

I applied for a mechanical/electronic assembly position, and for my
interview I took an antenna phasing unit that I built at the kitchen
table/workshop. It was one of my nicer in presentation projects that I
ever built at home. (is that cheating It just happened to fit in
perfectly with the type of work I would be doing. During the interview
the interviewer pointed out that I didn't need to use nylon screws to
hold the toroid inductors, I said I used them instead of iron out of an
abundance of caution. I got the job and had the "abundance of caution"
line fed back to me from him many times over the years. Don't know if he
realized it.
Mikek


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:56:06 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:08:13 -0700, Chris <chris.863@live.com> wrote:

...snip...
Also prepare for lots of spam now that you used a real (apparently)
email address on your post. These groups are trawled by bots for email
addys...

Chris.

you may notice my email address, somehow google doesn't let/put much spam
to this address, ...yet.

None of the spammers bother with newsgroups any more.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[Charles Edmondson]

In article <62a9873b-405e-4c04-bdc8-0fd0c2028ed2@googlegroups.com>,
meow2222@care2.com says...

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:57:55 PM UTC+1, michaelco...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone. I am an electronics student and in the process of learning, and I was wondering if I could join this group? I am thinking it would be a good way to learn more from others with more experience and maybe help me if I have a problem in school that I can't get answered easily. LOL. I wanted to pop in and ask before I joined.
Thanks,
Michael

This ng is a good way to learn. Ask, try things and suggest things. Build lots of stuff too. If your budget isn't generous, lots of bits can be had from electronic scrap. Why pay?

Read the cluster of sci.electronics newsgroups, they all have something to offer, though s.e.repair can get stupid on occasion.

Phil Allison seems to have decided everyone in the world is worth hating. Just ignore it. Take it as a lesson not to go down that path.

Build, build, build. I did, and by the time I left uni the difference between me and the folks that didn't do that was, what's the word, very evident.

And finally, understand that engineering is ultimately about money. Its all about how can we achieve this AND do it for less than the competition. Its not about all the bs people say it is to get folks' approval, its about money.

There are 2 goals in engineering: better and cheaper. Cheaper takes precendence 99% of the time. The adverts, packaging, sales talk and politician spew are 99% bullshit. Or is it 100.


NT

Also, if you want to get things sent to you, start a business. Really!
It doesn't have to make money, but if you go to a lot of manufacturers
and ask for samples, then say you are a student, many will just hang up
on you. Start a small business, say 'Mike's Electronics' and you have a
lot better chance. Read Circuit Cellar, enter contests, apply for free
evaluation boards. Before you know it, you can shout BS on your
professors... ;-)

Charlie

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 02:31:13 -0700 (PDT), meow2222@care2.com wrote:

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:57:55 PM UTC+1, michaelco...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone. I am an electronics student and in the process of learning, and I was wondering if I could join this group? I am thinking it would be a good way to learn more from others with more experience and maybe help me if I have a problem in school that I can't get answered easily. LOL. I wanted to pop in and ask before I joined.
Thanks,
Michael

This ng is a good way to learn. Ask, try things and suggest things. Build lots of stuff too. If your budget isn't generous, lots of bits can be had from electronic scrap. Why pay?

Read the cluster of sci.electronics newsgroups, they all have something to offer, though s.e.repair can get stupid on occasion.

Phil Allison seems to have decided everyone in the world is worth hating. Just ignore it. Take it as a lesson not to go down that path.

He does get a little cranky now and then. Maybe it's the weather.

Build, build, build. I did, and by the time I left uni the difference between me and the folks that didn't do that was, what's the word, very evident.

yes! See below.

And finally, understand that engineering is ultimately about money. Its all about how can we achieve this AND do it for less than the competition. Its not about all the bs people say it is to get folks' approval, its about money.

For some people, it's about building beautiful things that work, and letting
somebody else (employers, customers) pay for it.

There are 2 goals in engineering: better and cheaper. Cheaper takes precendence 99% of the time. The adverts, packaging, sales talk and politician spew are 99% bullshit. Or is it 100.


NT

If the OP is pre-college age, a ton of analog build-build will create good
qualtitative instincts. Then, when he gets hit with the college EE courses, a
heap of deliberately abstracted circuit theory and signals-and-systems math,
bells may ring for him that the other student miss. That's what happened to me.
The other guys kept taking notes and solving equations, but the math behind the
familiar circuits was a revelation to me.

Avoid a lot of coding. Everybody is doing that.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[Joerg]

amdx wrote:

On 7/17/2014 7:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
krw@attt.bizz wrote:


I've interviewed many engineers. Among the freshly minted ones the
absolute best impression was when people dumped a bunch of circuit
boards on the table and explained what each does, and how. One client's
VP of Engineering saw me coming out of an interview after just 15
minutes or so. She wanted to know why I broke it off. "Oh no, this it
_the_ guy, do not even let him get back to his car without an offer
letter in his hand". That was probably around five years ago, he got
hired and is still there.


I applied for a mechanical/electronic assembly position, and for my
interview I took an antenna phasing unit that I built at the kitchen
table/workshop. It was one of my nicer in presentation projects that I
ever built at home. (is that cheating It just happened to fit in
perfectly with the type of work I would be doing. During the interview
the interviewer pointed out that I didn't need to use nylon screws to
hold the toroid inductors, I said I used them instead of iron out of an
abundance of caution. I got the job and had the "abundance of caution"
line fed back to me from him many times over the years. Don't know if he
realized it.
Mikek

That abundance of caution is a good thing. I know a guy who almost lost
his ring finger when accidentally shorting out something like that. I
guess the wedding band is one of the risks of being married

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

rickman wrote:

On 7/17/2014 8:06 PM, Joerg wrote:

When I showed up for my first interviews I brought a thick binder with
all my project documentation and photos in there. Couldn't bring much
gear because it was way too big and heavy. Folks at the university said
that would be ridiculous and hiring managers wouldn't take me serious.
Little did they know. It's too long ago but I believe out of six
interviews I got six offers. A few months later I gave one of the hiring
managers who interviewed me a ride home because his car had a problem.
"Hey, George, can we go by your house? I want to see that monster amp
you talked about back in summer."

I'm not sure 100% offer rate is much of an indicator. But I guess it
does indicate that you get the offers which means you can cull the
employers.

I used to get 100% offer rate. The headhunters always wanted me to
either accept or turn down an offer quickly without more interviews, but
I wanted to see what else was out there. But now that I am over 50...
well over 50 it is actually hard to get an interview much less an offer.
Age discrimination is real... very real. Fortunately I am not in need
of a job.

I am finding the opposite. Once I approached 50 the number of headhunter
calls increased but because I was already self-employed I had to turn
them all down. From my resume which is on the Internet it is very easy
to gauge my age. The usual, army service, year of degree, etc. when they
look for consultants it becomes even more pronounced, they ideally want
someone who has seen it all and that requires having a few decades of
engineering under the belt.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 19:36:12 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"This goddammed delusional narcissist again! "

You say that like it's a bad thing. I am used to it. If you think people are bad here, try alt.revisionism.

That's where Blobbs was born.

 

[Joerg]

haiticare2011@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:46:46 AM UTC-4, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:12:34 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

michaelcovington670@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone. I am an electronics student and in the process of
learning, and I was wondering if I could join this group? I am
thinking it would be a good way to learn more from others with more
experience and maybe help me if I have a problem in school that I
can't get answered easily. LOL. I wanted to pop in and ask before I
joined.
No need to join. There is no formal membership in Usenet, no initiation
rituals, hazing, or any of that.
But ... for more basic questions there is sci.electronics.basics and
also people really do not like it when students try to get their
homework solved here. However, if you've made a serious effort and can't
figure something out or if you get stuck with a hardware project, by all
means ask.
And build stuff. It's super important for a career in electronics.
Companies want people who can make things happen. Nothing beats a
well-working prototype and good presentable documentation.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/


This touches on a bit of interview strategy. The reason the interviewers like

to see built stuff is because they have problems. They have to hire someone to

solve those problems. If it's engineering, they need someone who can build

something.

So in general, I believe it's a very good strategy to find out exactly what the

hiring manager needs, and present a solution to her. The more concrete the

better.

That sort of insight needs to trickle down to universities but AFAICS it
mostly doesn't.

This seems so obvious, but you'd be surprised...

Oh, and another "obvious" thing is managers with problems like to talk about
them, because they are often obsessed with them.

They should be, because it's usually affecting the bottomline of their
company in a not so good way. When I discuss a consulting relationship
with a new client their problem at hand is usually all we talk about.
That can occasionally result in them not needing me anymore like it did
in one case earlier this year. I suggested that we should look at a very
different way of building their system and this caused a big "Shazam!
Really?" light to turn on at the company. The new architecture made
their problem go away and moved almost the whole project into software
(which isn't my field) so they didn't need me anymore.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 09:35:57 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

rickman wrote:
On 7/17/2014 8:06 PM, Joerg wrote:

When I showed up for my first interviews I brought a thick binder with
all my project documentation and photos in there. Couldn't bring much
gear because it was way too big and heavy. Folks at the university said
that would be ridiculous and hiring managers wouldn't take me serious.
Little did they know. It's too long ago but I believe out of six
interviews I got six offers. A few months later I gave one of the hiring
managers who interviewed me a ride home because his car had a problem.
"Hey, George, can we go by your house? I want to see that monster amp
you talked about back in summer."

I'm not sure 100% offer rate is much of an indicator. But I guess it
does indicate that you get the offers which means you can cull the
employers.

I used to get 100% offer rate. The headhunters always wanted me to
either accept or turn down an offer quickly without more interviews, but
I wanted to see what else was out there. But now that I am over 50...
well over 50 it is actually hard to get an interview much less an offer.
Age discrimination is real... very real. Fortunately I am not in need
of a job.


I am finding the opposite. Once I approached 50 the number of headhunter
calls increased but because I was already self-employed I had to turn
them all down. From my resume which is on the Internet it is very easy
to gauge my age. The usual, army service, year of degree, etc. when they
look for consultants it becomes even more pronounced, they ideally want
someone who has seen it all and that requires having a few decades of
engineering under the belt.

I've found it goes both ways but more in line with what you're saying,
the cost of an experienced engineer isn't all that much more than a
younger one. The salaries are compressed, these days, so that isn't a
big deal. Overhead (space, lights, management, etc.) is the same.
There is a little health care difference but for the little difference
you get the experience. Some companies see it as a good deal,
particularly since the colleges are more interested in teaching script
kiddies than hardware design.

 

[rickman]

On 7/18/2014 12:35 PM, Joerg wrote:

rickman wrote:
On 7/17/2014 8:06 PM, Joerg wrote:

When I showed up for my first interviews I brought a thick binder with
all my project documentation and photos in there. Couldn't bring much
gear because it was way too big and heavy. Folks at the university said
that would be ridiculous and hiring managers wouldn't take me serious.
Little did they know. It's too long ago but I believe out of six
interviews I got six offers. A few months later I gave one of the hiring
managers who interviewed me a ride home because his car had a problem.
"Hey, George, can we go by your house? I want to see that monster amp
you talked about back in summer."

I'm not sure 100% offer rate is much of an indicator. But I guess it
does indicate that you get the offers which means you can cull the
employers.

I used to get 100% offer rate. The headhunters always wanted me to
either accept or turn down an offer quickly without more interviews, but
I wanted to see what else was out there. But now that I am over 50...
well over 50 it is actually hard to get an interview much less an offer.
Age discrimination is real... very real. Fortunately I am not in need
of a job.


I am finding the opposite. Once I approached 50 the number of headhunter
calls increased but because I was already self-employed I had to turn
them all down. From my resume which is on the Internet it is very easy
to gauge my age. The usual, army service, year of degree, etc. when they
look for consultants it becomes even more pronounced, they ideally want
someone who has seen it all and that requires having a few decades of
engineering under the belt.

Oh, there is no shortage of headhunter calls. lol That is a universal
constant even more-so than the speed of light.

--

Rick

 

[amdx]

On 7/18/2014 11:31 AM, Joerg wrote:

amdx wrote:
On 7/17/2014 7:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
krw@attt.bizz wrote:


I've interviewed many engineers. Among the freshly minted ones the
absolute best impression was when people dumped a bunch of circuit
boards on the table and explained what each does, and how. One client's
VP of Engineering saw me coming out of an interview after just 15
minutes or so. She wanted to know why I broke it off. "Oh no, this it
_the_ guy, do not even let him get back to his car without an offer
letter in his hand". That was probably around five years ago, he got
hired and is still there.


I applied for a mechanical/electronic assembly position, and for my
interview I took an antenna phasing unit that I built at the kitchen
table/workshop. It was one of my nicer in presentation projects that I
ever built at home. (is that cheating It just happened to fit in
perfectly with the type of work I would be doing. During the interview
the interviewer pointed out that I didn't need to use nylon screws to
hold the toroid inductors, I said I used them instead of iron out of an
abundance of caution. I got the job and had the "abundance of caution"
line fed back to me from him many times over the years. Don't know if he
realized it.
Mikek


That abundance of caution is a good thing. I know a guy who almost lost
his ring finger when accidentally shorting out something like that. I
guess the wedding band is one of the risks of being married

I quit wearing mine many, many years ago, just because of the
conduction possibility. The wife was not pleased, she showed me!
A couple years later she stopped wearing hers. Somewhat different
though, I don't wear any jewelery, not even a watch. She wears all
kinds. Going on 34 years, I guess she's going to keep me.
Mikek

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[amdx]

On 7/17/2014 9:11 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:41:32 PM UTC-4, k...@attt.bizz wrote:

You bet! I was working with ...

This goddammed delusional narcissist again!

You any kin to Phil the Aussie?
Mikek

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http://www.avast.com

 

[amdx]

On 7/18/2014 12:19 AM, Reinhardt Behm wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 19:36:12 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"This goddammed delusional narcissist again!"

You say that like it's a bad thing. I am used to it. If you think people
are bad here, try alt.revisionism.

Isn't there a newsgroup just for flaming?

Other than SED?

Try rec.boats, much worse than here.
They also have a knee jerk liberal that hates any conservative thought.
Lots of name calling from him.
Mikek




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http://www.avast.com

 

[Joerg]

rickman wrote:

On 7/18/2014 12:35 PM, Joerg wrote:
rickman wrote:
On 7/17/2014 8:06 PM, Joerg wrote:

When I showed up for my first interviews I brought a thick binder with
all my project documentation and photos in there. Couldn't bring much
gear because it was way too big and heavy. Folks at the university said
that would be ridiculous and hiring managers wouldn't take me serious.
Little did they know. It's too long ago but I believe out of six
interviews I got six offers. A few months later I gave one of the
hiring
managers who interviewed me a ride home because his car had a problem.
"Hey, George, can we go by your house? I want to see that monster amp
you talked about back in summer."

I'm not sure 100% offer rate is much of an indicator. But I guess it
does indicate that you get the offers which means you can cull the
employers.

I used to get 100% offer rate. The headhunters always wanted me to
either accept or turn down an offer quickly without more interviews, but
I wanted to see what else was out there. But now that I am over 50...
well over 50 it is actually hard to get an interview much less an offer.
Age discrimination is real... very real. Fortunately I am not in need
of a job.


I am finding the opposite. Once I approached 50 the number of headhunter
calls increased but because I was already self-employed I had to turn
them all down. From my resume which is on the Internet it is very easy
to gauge my age. The usual, army service, year of degree, etc. when they
look for consultants it becomes even more pronounced, they ideally want
someone who has seen it all and that requires having a few decades of
engineering under the belt.

Oh, there is no shortage of headhunter calls. lol That is a universal
constant even more-so than the speed of light.

Those were real jobs and we talked about them in some detail. In the
area of analog companies are sometimes desparate.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/