Can a 12VDC 500ma wall wart trickle charge a car battery?...

[Phil Allison]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
=================

Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out over 12
volts. It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.

** Un-regulated ( transformer) AC to DC adaptors were banned in many places a few year ago.

The only kind allowed now are SMPS with self shut down when unloaded.

( AC to AC adaptors and special multi- voltage ones are excepted )




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
=================

Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out over 12
volts. It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.

** Un-regulated ( transformer) AC to DC adaptors were banned in many places a few year ago.

The only kind allowed now are SMPS with self shut down when unloaded.

( AC to AC adaptors and special multi- voltage ones are excepted )




...... Phil

 

[Rob]

John <john@nospam.invalid> wrote:

Can a 12VDC 500ma wall wart trickle charge a car battery or must the voltage
to charge a car battery be greater than 12VDC (like 14 or 15 volts?).

It will depend on: is it an antique wall wart from the junk box (with
an iron core transformer, a rectifier and an electrolytic) or a modern
switchmode wall wart?

The latter will do absolutely nothing. The former may work, depending
on the parameters.

 

[Rob]

John <john@nospam.invalid> wrote:

Can a 12VDC 500ma wall wart trickle charge a car battery or must the voltage
to charge a car battery be greater than 12VDC (like 14 or 15 volts?).

It will depend on: is it an antique wall wart from the junk box (with
an iron core transformer, a rectifier and an electrolytic) or a modern
switchmode wall wart?

The latter will do absolutely nothing. The former may work, depending
on the parameters.

 

[amdx]

On 8/1/2021 8:17 PM, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

On 2/08/2021 6:29 am, amdx wrote:
On 8/1/2021 12:36 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <se6li2$is8$1@gioia.aioe.org>, john@nospam.invalid says...
Can a 12VDC 500ma wall wart trickle charge a car battery or must
the voltage
to charge a car battery be greater than 12VDC (like 14 or 15 volts?).

Can a well regulated 12VDC still charge (over a long time) a car
battery?

Or must it be over 13.5 volts to (eventually) accomplish full
charging?


Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out
over 12
volts.  It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.

A well regulated 12 volt supply will not charge a car battery as it
12.6
volts when charged.

It will take a higher voltage than 13 volts to charge a car battery.

Unless precautions are taken just hooking a power supply to a car
battery could damage the power supply especially if it is a regulated
one.


I did a short search hoping to find what current flows during trickle
charge. I was surprised to see 1 to 3 amps.

  This is supposed to match the self discharge rate.

Going by that, I doubt you could damage your battery with a 500ma
wall wart.

There are different types of wall warts, regulated and unregulated.
What kind do you have?

If you have an unregulated type, measure the unloaded

voltage. say it is 15V and, guessing here, it is 12V when delivering
500ma. So it has an output impedance of 6 ohms.

If it delivered 100ma the voltage would be 14.4 Volts. 15V - (6Ω x
0.1A)= 14.4V

To be safe I would float it at 13.6 meaning add in series a resistor.
15V - 13.6V = 1.4V  then 1.4V / 0.1A = 14 Ω

you already have 6Ω internal so add 8Ω more.  Now you have 15V -(14Ω
x 0.1V) = 13.6V  The max it will deliver at

13.6V is 100ma. this will rise to 14.86 at 10ma. But if the Self
discharge rate is higher (as suggested) your charge voltage will
never get that high.

  If you want to learn something do this, if you just want to keep
the battery charged go to Harbor Freight.

                                         Mikek

If you have an unregulated style, I\'d experiment, if not spend $9 at
Harbor Freight and get one.

                                                          Mikek



What size battery needs 1 to 3amps for trickle charge ?
The average unit only needs around 300mA to maintain charge.

I thought the 1 to 3 amps was high myself.

I got that from here;

https://batterymanguide.com/will-a-trickle-charger-charge-a-dead-battery/

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2013/09/06/tech-101-maintaining-and-charging-a-battery

The trickle charger produces a constant small amp charge, usually 2 amps
or less, that keeps the battery fully charged while at rest.

I had one other 1 to 3 amp reference, but can\'t find it now. Anyway, I
thought it would be less current.

Here\'s a site that may be helpful to the OP.

                                   Mikek




--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Peter W.]

> You mean a usable tool or device at a low price.

I don\'t, no.

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-in-linesman-pliers-63820.html

The former keeps a small town in western Pennsylvania vibrant with hundreds of well-paying jobs. The steel is sourced from the US and the profits remain in the US.
The latter keeps a sweatshop in China working with hundreds of poorly paying jobs. The steel is sourced from China, and the profits remain in China.
Yes, there is a cost difference. The first time one cuts a \'live wire\' with either tool, the result of that cost difference will be instantly manifest.. Bit of advice - do not try that with the HF option.

Tools have a purpose, true. And often the need drives the choices, true. But:

One choice provides my neighbor with a job so that he/she may support a family and maintain a life. The other does not. If I am not conscious of the difference between the two options, and should it come to pass that my neighbor\'s choices and options put me out of a job, then I have no grounds for complaints. If I am conscious of the differences, then my neighbor and I have an obligation to support each other to our mutual benefit.

Sometimes, there is no choice, and sometimes one is forced to purchase from China, or similar Pacific Rim sources. LCD screens (invented in Pittsburgh, PA, USA) come to mind. And many similar items. But where there is a choice, at the very least, make that choice with full awareness of the consequences.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[amdx]

On 8/2/2021 11:21 AM, Peter W. wrote:

You mean a usable tool or device at a low price.
I don\'t, no.

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-in-linesman-pliers-63820.html

The former keeps a small town in western Pennsylvania vibrant with hundreds of well-paying jobs. The steel is sourced from the US and the profits remain in the US.
The latter keeps a sweatshop in China working with hundreds of poorly paying jobs. The steel is sourced from China, and the profits remain in China.
Yes, there is a cost difference. The first time one cuts a \'live wire\' with either tool, the result of that cost difference will be instantly manifest. Bit of advice - do not try that with the HF option.

Tools have a purpose, true. And often the need drives the choices, true. But:

One choice provides my neighbor with a job so that he/she may support a family and maintain a life. The other does not. If I am not conscious of the difference between the two options, and should it come to pass that my neighbor\'s choices and options put me out of a job, then I have no grounds for complaints. If I am conscious of the differences, then my neighbor and I have an obligation to support each other to our mutual benefit.

Sometimes, there is no choice, and sometimes one is forced to purchase from China, or similar Pacific Rim sources. LCD screens (invented in Pittsburgh, PA, USA) come to mind. And many similar items. But where there is a choice, at the very least, make that choice with full awareness of the consequences.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

While I do agree on the buy American sentiment, it\'s not all that easy
to find an American made tool. And as you see, there is a 3x premium to
get that.

I was against import fees, but if we could use them to slow down China,
I\'m all for them, but I\'m afraid we are 20 years late to that party.

                                             Mikek


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:27:45 +0200, John <john@nospam.invalid> wrote:

Can a 12VDC 500ma wall wart trickle charge a car battery or must the voltage
to charge a car battery be greater than 12VDC (like 14 or 15 volts?).

Can a well regulated 12VDC still charge (over a long time) a car battery?

Or must it be over 13.5 volts to (eventually) accomplish full charging?

Lots of things wrong here:
1. Common flooded car batteries will not charge using a small trickle
charge. You can use a trickle charge to maintain the charge level of
an already charged battery, but you cannot take (for example) a half
charged battery and bring it to full charge with a trickle charger.
2. The charge voltage on a common flooded car battery is about 14.5V
and varies with temperature, battery condition, battery age, etc.
<https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid>
3. A linear 12VDC/500ma might have a no-load output voltage of
perhaps 15V, but under full 500ma load, will probably drop below 12V
making battery charging problematic. A switching type power supply
has a built in voltage regulator and will produce 12.0V at any load
below 500ma making battery charging impossible.
4. A power supply that produces 13.5V will not charge a battery with
a no load voltage of 13.6V (fully charged). You need a voltage
difference to produce charging current.
5. Today\'s overpriced car batteries cost about $100. Would you
really risk trashing a $100 battery because you don\'t want to use a
proper battery charger? I wouldn\'t. Unfortunately, a charger with a
fancy label is not a guarantee of quality. All these chargers were
defective in some manner. They also killed two rather expensive
stationary batteries at a radio site:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/dead-battery-chargers.jpg>
Spend some time and do some reading on chargers.
6. If you\'re looking for a \"battery maintainer\", I suggest you check
what is being offered for boating. They tend to be better built, be
better designed, and unfortunately cost most, than the common
automotive and home user variety. RV and recreational maintainers are
in between.
<https://www.westmarine.com/mounted-battery-chargers>
<https://www.westmarine.com/portable-chargers>
If you don\'t like the prices, remind yourself what a new battery might
cost if your charger tries to kill it.

Good luck.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:27:45 +0200, John <john@nospam.invalid> wrote:

Can a 12VDC 500ma wall wart trickle charge a car battery or must the voltage
to charge a car battery be greater than 12VDC (like 14 or 15 volts?).

Can a well regulated 12VDC still charge (over a long time) a car battery?

Or must it be over 13.5 volts to (eventually) accomplish full charging?

Lots of things wrong here:
1. Common flooded car batteries will not charge using a small trickle
charge. You can use a trickle charge to maintain the charge level of
an already charged battery, but you cannot take (for example) a half
charged battery and bring it to full charge with a trickle charger.
2. The charge voltage on a common flooded car battery is about 14.5V
and varies with temperature, battery condition, battery age, etc.
<https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid>
3. A linear 12VDC/500ma might have a no-load output voltage of
perhaps 15V, but under full 500ma load, will probably drop below 12V
making battery charging problematic. A switching type power supply
has a built in voltage regulator and will produce 12.0V at any load
below 500ma making battery charging impossible.
4. A power supply that produces 13.5V will not charge a battery with
a no load voltage of 13.6V (fully charged). You need a voltage
difference to produce charging current.
5. Today\'s overpriced car batteries cost about $100. Would you
really risk trashing a $100 battery because you don\'t want to use a
proper battery charger? I wouldn\'t. Unfortunately, a charger with a
fancy label is not a guarantee of quality. All these chargers were
defective in some manner. They also killed two rather expensive
stationary batteries at a radio site:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/dead-battery-chargers.jpg>
Spend some time and do some reading on chargers.
6. If you\'re looking for a \"battery maintainer\", I suggest you check
what is being offered for boating. They tend to be better built, be
better designed, and unfortunately cost most, than the common
automotive and home user variety. RV and recreational maintainers are
in between.
<https://www.westmarine.com/mounted-battery-chargers>
<https://www.westmarine.com/portable-chargers>
If you don\'t like the prices, remind yourself what a new battery might
cost if your charger tries to kill it.

Good luck.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Peter W.]

I was against import fees, but if we could use them to slow down China,
I\'m all for them, but I\'m afraid we are 20 years late to that party.

Import fees are also known as Tariffs - and you see how well that worked out.

> it\'s not all that easy to find an American made tool.

Agreed. But the internet is your friend.

https://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/products-made-in-the-usa

https://www.protoolreviews.com/what-tools-are-made-in-the-usa/

https://www.toolbarn.com/usa-made-tools/

Are three sources of many.

I guess my gripe is that that as a nation, we are racing for the bottom with our education, our environment, our civil discourse and many other aspects of being a first-world nation. We are now in a race to be the best-armed third-world nation on the planet....

You have seen this rant before:

Keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (63%).
Speaks one language – badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year.
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).

Worst of all: The Average American does not vote. 66.2% of registered voters voted in 2020, a record! However, only 66.7% of eligible voters were actually registered. That means that only 44.2% of eligible voters actually voted.

Pretty abysmal stats.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Peter W.]

I was against import fees, but if we could use them to slow down China,
I\'m all for them, but I\'m afraid we are 20 years late to that party.

Import fees are also known as Tariffs - and you see how well that worked out.

> it\'s not all that easy to find an American made tool.

Agreed. But the internet is your friend.

https://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/products-made-in-the-usa

https://www.protoolreviews.com/what-tools-are-made-in-the-usa/

https://www.toolbarn.com/usa-made-tools/

Are three sources of many.

I guess my gripe is that that as a nation, we are racing for the bottom with our education, our environment, our civil discourse and many other aspects of being a first-world nation. We are now in a race to be the best-armed third-world nation on the planet....

You have seen this rant before:

Keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (63%).
Speaks one language – badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year.
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).

Worst of all: The Average American does not vote. 66.2% of registered voters voted in 2020, a record! However, only 66.7% of eligible voters were actually registered. That means that only 44.2% of eligible voters actually voted.

Pretty abysmal stats.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <uo8ggg5e5fqegsktti0p55ot56ir2o2ndm@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...

5. Today\'s overpriced car batteries cost about $100. Would you
really risk trashing a $100 battery because you don\'t want to use a
proper battery charger? I wouldn\'t. Unfortunately, a charger with a
fancy label is not a guarantee of quality. All these chargers were
defective in some manner. They also killed two rather expensive
stationary batteries at a radio site:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/dead-battery-chargers.jpg
Spend some time and do some reading on chargers.
6. If you\'re looking for a \"battery maintainer\", I suggest you check
what is being offered for boating. They tend to be better built, be
better designed, and unfortunately cost most, than the common
automotive and home user variety. RV and recreational maintainers are
in between.
https://www.westmarine.com/mounted-battery-chargers
https://www.westmarine.com/portable-chargers
If you don\'t like the prices, remind yourself what a new battery might
cost if your charger tries to kill it.

Yes, even high dollar charges do not guarenee they will not fry a
battery.

At work we had some stand by pumps for fire protection. The batteries
to start the Diesel engines were under constant charge by some very high
dollar chargers. We would only get about 3 months of service out of the
batteries. The engines (we had 2) were started for about an hour every
week as a test. I don\'t think they were ever used because of a fire.

We even had a battery charger company service man to come by about 3 or
4 times because the chargers were cooking the batteries.
The batteries were the old lead acid type and were checked for water and
specific gravity every week.

If not for the voltage of them, we probably would have been better off
with the $ 10 Harbor Freight Battery maintainer.

I bought one of those to put on my 3.5 kw portable generator and hook it
up for a day or so every month. The battery is no where near the size
of a car battery.

Been working ok for the last 2 years.

For my lawn tractor that is not used from about November to March I have
one of the solar cell battery maintainers as there is no power in the
shed for it. Seems to keep the battery charged.

 

[Chris Jones]

On 02/08/2021 12:57, Phil Allison wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:
=================

Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out over 12
volts. It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.


** Un-regulated ( transformer) AC to DC adaptors were banned in many places a few year ago.

Theoretically they are not banned, but to be allowed, they would have to
have very low standby consumption which might make them uneconomical to
manufacture.

I have seen a few sold recently in Australia, but have not investigated
whether they really have very low standby consumption or are just
non-compliant.

 

[amdx]

On 8/2/2021 12:44 PM, Peter W. wrote:

I was against import fees, but if we could use them to slow down China,
I\'m all for them, but I\'m afraid we are 20 years late to that party.
Import fees are also known as Tariffs - and you see how well that worked out.

Yes, tarriff\'s are what I meant, we should never had made China as well
off as they are, over the long term I think we have lost that war.

It is a funny thing that we all have a higher standard of living because
of Chinese imports, but it can not last over the long term.

it\'s not all that easy to find an American made tool.
Agreed. But the internet is your friend.

https://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/products-made-in-the-usa

https://www.protoolreviews.com/what-tools-are-made-in-the-usa/

https://www.toolbarn.com/usa-made-tools/

Are three sources of many.

I guess my gripe is that that as a nation, we are racing for the bottom with our education, our environment, our civil discourse and many other aspects of being a first-world nation. We are now in a race to be the best-armed third-world nation on the planet....

You have seen this rant before:

Keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (63%).
Speaks one language – badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year.

Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).

   OK, that one just floors me! That must be brainwashing that won\'t
succumb to knowledge.

Worst of all: The Average American does not vote. 66.2% of registered voters voted in 2020, a record! However, only 66.7% of eligible voters were actually registered. That means that only 44.2% of eligible voters actually voted.

Pretty abysmal stats.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 3/8/21 2:53 am, amdx wrote:

On 8/2/2021 11:21 AM, Peter W. wrote:
You mean a usable tool or device at a low price.
I don\'t, no.

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5


https://www.harborfreight.com/9-in-linesman-pliers-63820.html

The former keeps a small town in western Pennsylvania vibrant with
hundreds of well-paying jobs. The steel is sourced from the US and the
profits remain in the US.
The latter keeps a sweatshop in China working with hundreds of poorly
paying jobs. The steel is sourced from China, and the profits remain
in China.
Yes, there is a cost difference. The first time one cuts a \'live wire\'
with either tool, the result of that cost difference will be instantly
manifest. Bit of advice - do not try that with the HF option.

Tools have a purpose, true. And often the need drives the choices,
true. But:

One choice provides my neighbor with a job so that he/she may support
a family and maintain a life. The other does not. If I am not
conscious of the difference between the two options, and should it
come to pass that my neighbor\'s choices and options put me out of a
job, then I have no grounds for complaints. If I am conscious of the
differences, then my neighbor and I have an obligation to support each
other to our mutual benefit.

Sometimes, there is no choice, and sometimes one is forced to purchase
from China, or similar Pacific Rim sources. LCD screens (invented in
Pittsburgh, PA, USA) come to mind. And many similar items. But where
there is a choice, at the very least, make that choice with full
awareness of the consequences.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

While I do agree on the buy American sentiment, it\'s not all that easy
to find an American made tool. And as you see, there is a 3x premium to
get that.

I was against import fees, but if we could use them to slow down China,
I\'m all for them, but I\'m afraid we are 20 years late to that party.

It\'s a no-brainer to pay 3x premium for a product that will be easier to
use, do better work, and last 3x longer.

Sadly however that is not the case. The multiplier is often 10x, and the
product is not better than (say) a Japanese product at only 3x.

America and Australia both have \"buy local-product\" campaigns. What we
need instead is a \"sell local-product\" campaign, to push manufacturers
to make globally-competitive products at a good price-point. When
Australia finally started making cars that filled a niche and were
competitive on price and quality - the niche started to evaporate,
government support was exhausted, and the manufacturers decided to move
manufacturing elsewhere. Same goes for electronics, whitegoods. and many
other products. Managers in multi-national owners buy into the mantra
that all manufacture should be offshored to Asia, so they do that, and
wonder why their brand reputation collapses over the next few years.
It\'s crazy.

Both countries (and probably many others) need to aggressively
*on-shore* manufacturing, if only to reduce sovereign risk. The focus
must be to produce products that are globally competitive on quality and
price - i.e. manufactures must be assisted to address a global market.

The \"buy A\" campaigns are like Ford executives calling an all-staff
meeting and telling everyone they should buy a Ford, to keep the company
afloat so they can continue to pay salaries... while continuing to make
cars that no-one else wants to buy. It\'s crazy and inadequate thinking.
Meet the competitive global market or change business.

.... and tax the crap out of imported products that are underpriced only
due to the value of labour, life and the environment being undervalued
in Asia. Not protectionism, just fair competition.

CH.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 3/8/21 3:21 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Lots of things wrong here:
1. Common flooded car batteries will not charge using a small trickle
charge. You can use a trickle charge to maintain the charge level of
an already charged battery, but you cannot take (for example) a half
charged battery and bring it to full charge with a trickle charger.

Why is that Jeff? Surely any charger that exceeds the self-discharge
current will eventually charge the battery?

 

[Phil Allison]

Chris Jones wrote:
================

Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out over 12
volts. It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.


** Un-regulated ( transformer) AC to DC adaptors were banned in many places a few year ago.
Theoretically they are not banned, but to be allowed, they would have to
have very low standby consumption which might make them uneconomical to
manufacture.

I have seen a few sold recently in Australia, but have not investigated
whether they really have very low standby consumption or are just
non-compliant.

** Yep - I know all about the MEPS regulations.
My colleague Rod Elliott attended one of the \" stake holder\" meetings in Sydney.

As with the case of incandescent light bulbs, the rule was made ( exquisitely) to exclude them and transformer external adapters. Initially it affected all such, including AC- AC types - but was amended under protest that there was NO alternative.

Now, it is possible to make a low standby, AC -DC adapter with an iron transformer.

1. Double the usual primary turns to lower I mag.
2. Use a toroidal core.

The first will mean the VA rating is halved and regulation is poor.
Using larger core does not help - cot is involves doubling Imag.

The second is out of the question since it is not possible to make a regular toroidal that complies with the safety standards.
External adapters are \"prescribed items \" that must pass lab testing for user safety under all overload, spike voltage and overheating scenarios. The extremely close proximity of primary and secondary windings does not permit this.

The JOKE is that SMPS adapters are inherently unsafe - though technically complying with the existing rules.
Liquid ingress, the failure ( leaking) of an electro cap or the often fake Y-cap fails and bridges isolation.

MEPS enthusiasts were not interested in facts, user safety was not their problem.

Cos they were saving the planet.....

...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

Chris Jones wrote:
================

Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out over 12
volts. It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.


** Un-regulated ( transformer) AC to DC adaptors were banned in many places a few year ago.
Theoretically they are not banned, but to be allowed, they would have to
have very low standby consumption which might make them uneconomical to
manufacture.

I have seen a few sold recently in Australia, but have not investigated
whether they really have very low standby consumption or are just
non-compliant.

** Yep - I know all about the MEPS regulations.
My colleague Rod Elliott attended one of the \" stake holder\" meetings in Sydney.

As with the case of incandescent light bulbs, the rule was made ( exquisitely) to exclude them and transformer external adapters. Initially it affected all such, including AC- AC types - but was amended under protest that there was NO alternative.

Now, it is possible to make a low standby, AC -DC adapter with an iron transformer.

1. Double the usual primary turns to lower I mag.
2. Use a toroidal core.

The first will mean the VA rating is halved and regulation is poor.
Using larger core does not help - cot is involves doubling Imag.

The second is out of the question since it is not possible to make a regular toroidal that complies with the safety standards.
External adapters are \"prescribed items \" that must pass lab testing for user safety under all overload, spike voltage and overheating scenarios. The extremely close proximity of primary and secondary windings does not permit this.

The JOKE is that SMPS adapters are inherently unsafe - though technically complying with the existing rules.
Liquid ingress, the failure ( leaking) of an electro cap or the often fake Y-cap fails and bridges isolation.

MEPS enthusiasts were not interested in facts, user safety was not their problem.

Cos they were saving the planet.....

...... Phil

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:44:14 -0700 (PDT), \"Peter W.\"
<peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:

it\'s not all that easy to find an American made tool.

Agreed. But the internet is your friend.
https://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/products-made-in-the-usa
https://www.protoolreviews.com/what-tools-are-made-in-the-usa/
https://www.toolbarn.com/usa-made-tools/
Are three sources of many.

Careful. \"Made in the USA\" is actually \"Select Products Made in the
USA with Global Materials\". That\'s exactly what the DeWalt page
shows. It\'s much the same with most other large tool vendors. The
standard joke is that the tools are made in China or elsewhere, but
the stick on labels are attached in the USA. Some of the former large
warehouses have been converted into \"factories\" where the \"production
line\" adds labels, assembles kits, adds legal documents, and stuffs
them in cardboard boxes. A major clue is that these \"factories\" have
very few employees compared to the square footage.

\"New Craftsman Texas Factory Updates! (#ChromingSoon #MadeInUSA*)\"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc2wM6EV2K8> (13:23)

Note: DeWalt, Craftsman, and many others are owned by Stanley Black &
Decker. More:
<https://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/>
<https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/43632/>
<https://pressurewashr.com/tool-industry-behemoths/>

The video lists two companies that really do make everything in the
USA.
<https://www.tekton.com/about-us>
<http://www.wrighttool.com/frequently-asked-question.html>
S-K Tool is mostly made in USA, but was recently sold to Chinese
investors:
<https://sktools.com/made-in-usa.html>
<https://toolguyd.com/greatstar-aquires-sk-hand-tool-from-ideal-industries/>

\"What Tools Are Made in the USA?\"
<https://www.protoolreviews.com/what-tools-are-made-in-the-usa/>
Note that most of the companies listed include the \"from global
materials\" qualifier in the article.

So, are there any real \"Made in USA\" tool companies? Hard to say was
long as the FTC tolerates the \"Select Products Made in the USA with
Global Materials\" baloney and deceptive advertising.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Rob]

Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

On 02/08/2021 12:57, Phil Allison wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:
=================

Unless they are regulated many of the 12 volt wall warts put out over 12
volts. It may not charge a car battery very much if it is one of the
unregulated ones ,but will maintain the charge.


** Un-regulated ( transformer) AC to DC adaptors were banned in many places a few year ago.

Theoretically they are not banned, but to be allowed, they would have to
have very low standby consumption which might make them uneconomical to
manufacture.

I have seen a few sold recently in Australia, but have not investigated
whether they really have very low standby consumption or are just
non-compliant.

Usually such regulations cover the use of an adapter as part of a system,
e.g. a phone charger or a newly designed device with 12V power wall wart,
but it does not preclude the sale of the separate component e.g. to use
it as a service part for older equipment, or the sale of old stock.

So it is likely still legal to sell old style wall warts which could be
used in this application, you just won\'t find them packaged with your
new toys anymore.