Building a treehouse in the redwood grove of a neighbor (pic

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:41:56 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

Oren wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:31:43 -0700:

Just curious. Is there a torque spec for those clamps? Or ...

I had forwarded this thread to the owner of the treehouse in the redwoods, who replied with the following ...
-----------

People worry too much.

I simply design for 10 times the expected load, and pay the premium.
Trying to finely engineer the solution where torque and special fasteners are important
is a way to save money, and I'd rather spend the money and not waste my time.
I've never seen a malleable cable clamp. Drop forged ones are cheap, and I use more than
normal anyway, not because I think they are needed, but because they help keep the cable
from slipping out of place on the wood block spacers.

The reason for keeping the U-bolt on the dead end of the cable is because the saddle has
a lot more surface area, and thus does not reduce the strength of the cable as much as the
U-bolt does. But they make dual-saddle cable clamps, for those who don't use the over-engineering
approach I do.

Each cable can support 7 tons, so the total weight of treehouse and occupants can be 14 tons.
(Although there will be other supports besides the cable -- one end will rest on the ground, and
another end will be anchored to the tree, and there may be other support cables used just to
make installation and leveling easier.)

If half of the weight is treehouse and the other half is people, we have 7 tons of treehouse
possible (although the actual treehouse will probably weigh less than 1.4 tons fully furnished),
and 7 tons of people (70 people, if they are all 200 pounds). I doubt we will ever have 70 people
in the treehouse -- they'd be shoulder-to-shoulder.

My point was, if the clamps call for a torque spec, and we now
understand they do - why not follow the details made by the
manufacturers? I'd just feel comfortable doing so. Your friend can do
as he pleases. I get the point of over building something. I've done
hear for a patio cover on my house.

Pick your poison

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm just the free help (we
all have Spanish nicknames when we do free labor. I'm "Rodruigo", and my
wife's nom-de-labor is "Marisol", for example).

I keep threatening that I'm gonna call OSHA on them if I fall or if they
don't provide cold soda (the free soda has been warm, to date).

It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!
--
"..,what is good is the front end if you don't have the back end"-- Kimberly Guilfoyle

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:15:51 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700:

It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!

I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental?

Crazy Uncle Joe Biden?

Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway?
The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards?

(I don't know these things.)

The Mexicans are offended. Ask one that knows some history or lack of.

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:20:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:20:20 -0700:

Your friend can do as he pleases.
I get the point of over building something.

The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not
me!

But you are one of the conspirators in negligence, unwittingly.
Neither can sue the clamp maker. (G)

 

[Danny D.]

Lew Hodgett wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:29:57 -0700:

> IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.

Times two cables, which is 5,600 pounds, at least.

 

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:41:56 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannydiamico@gmail.com> wrote:

Oren wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:31:43 -0700:

Just curious. Is there a torque spec for those clamps? Or ...

I had forwarded this thread to the owner of the treehouse in the redwoods, who replied with the following ...
-----------

People worry too much.

I simply design for 10 times the expected load, and pay the premium.
Trying to finely engineer the solution where torque and special fasteners are important
is a way to save money, and I'd rather spend the money and not waste my time.
I've never seen a malleable cable clamp. Drop forged ones are cheap, and I use more than
normal anyway, not because I think they are needed, but because they help keep the cable
from slipping out of place on the wood block spacers.

The reason for keeping the U-bolt on the dead end of the cable is because the saddle has
a lot more surface area, and thus does not reduce the strength of the cable as much as the
U-bolt does. But they make dual-saddle cable clamps, for those who don't use the over-engineering
approach I do.

Each cable can support 7 tons, so the total weight of treehouse and occupants can be 14 tons.
(Although there will be other supports besides the cable -- one end will rest on the ground, and
another end will be anchored to the tree, and there may be other support cables used just to
make installation and leveling easier.)

If half of the weight is treehouse and the other half is people, we have 7 tons of treehouse
possible (although the actual treehouse will probably weigh less than 1.4 tons fully furnished),
and 7 tons of people (70 people, if they are all 200 pounds). I doubt we will ever have 70 people
in the treehouse -- they'd be shoulder-to-shoulder.

I hear that about over engineering stuff. When I was getting ready to
pour the floor for my shop I calculated the concrete thickness for the
various machines and then though about what happens if I move a
machine and then what happens if I buy a heavier machine or one with a
smaller footprint and so on. Then I realized how pointless this was in
my situation, So I had the concrete poured to 7 inch minimum
thickness, had fiber put in the concrete, and I put rebar and wire
mesh in place before the pour. It's a good thing too because I later
bought a lathe that covers 10 square feet with the base and sits on 4
9 square inch pads and weighs 8000 lbs.
Eric

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
years.

Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"?
They love black beans and rice. They didn't seem to be offended.
--
Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon

 

[G. Ross]

Danny D. wrote:
8>< Snip

At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and
WiFi and a great open view of the mountains.

8>< Snip

You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the
beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this
would be a place to escape all that stuff.

--
 GW Ross 

 1st Law of Thermodynamics: Go to 
 class!! 

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:38:51 -0400, "G. Ross" <gwr95@comwest.net>
wrote:

You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the
beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this
would be a place to escape all that stuff.

The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further?

 

[Lew Hodgett]

"Danny D." wrote:


> Only that each cable supports 14,000 pounds!
----------------------------------------------
In days of yore I worked as a design engineer for heavy duty
steel mill and foundry equipment, but that was then and this is now.

For designs involving steel cable and human safety, the basic
safety factor applied was 5.

IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.

Dynamic loading would apply another 50% derate.

IOW, 2,800*50% = 1,400 pounds for dynamic loads.

Based on the posts I have seen, your group needs some
serious help before people get hurt or worse.

Lew Hodgett, PE Retired

 

[josephkk]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:34:27 -0700, Dan Coby <adcoby@earthlink.net> wrote:

On 9/28/2014 9:50 AM, Danny D. wrote:
... snip


On the big tree, 125 feet away, we will add a wraparound additional
steel cable, so that the middle also has two cables.

... snip


Any other tips are welcome, as we're just now at the stage where
we have the ability to build the 125 foot long bridge starting
about 15 feet up in a pine, and then going straight across a
steep slope through the set of two redwoods, and then on to the
really big redwood 125 feet down the slope.

The treehouse will be in the middle of the bridge.


Are you saying that the tree house will be in the middle of a 125 foot
suspension bridge. How much will the tree house weigh when fully loaded
and do you have any idea of the forces that may be in the cables?


Dan

You better check it. Wind loads can exceed the dead loads by many times.
Wind loads may be the real issue.

?-)

 

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 7:42 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

thickness, had fiber put in the concrete, and I put rebar and wire
mesh in place before the pour. It's a good thing too because I later
bought a lathe that covers 10 square feet with the base and sits on 4
9 square inch pads and weighs 8000 lbs.
Eric

Sounds like my elementary school lunch room
monitor woman. We used to call her Bubbles.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

 

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 7:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:

The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not
me!

Does PRC have more attorneys, or Mexicans?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

 

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 7:15 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway?
The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards?

(I don't know these things.)

I think everyone's offended, now days.
And you hurt my feelings by writing
that.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

 

[John Robertson]

On 09/29/2014, 8:37 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:29:57 -0700:

IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.

Times two cables, which is 5,600 pounds, at least.

My last comments - this is not looking so good..

Bending a cable around a support weakens the cable - there is a formula
for that:

http://unirope.com/products/slings/wire-rope-slings/rigging-guidelines/dd-ratio-and-the-effect-on-sling-capacity/

So that derates the cable strength from 10% to 60% depending on the
curve. Note too that they are using wooden standoff/chocks to hold the
wire, I hope they chamfered a notch - but in any case the load is not
consistent on the tree, rather it is concentrated on only a few of those
wooden chocks. This is a derating aspect too.

Looking at picture:

https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/15188634078_2b3de04150_c.jpg

It looks like the cable does a bit of a sharp bend where it leaves the
standoff...this is potentially a real problem - kinks are possible. The
pinching of the cable at the clamps also derates the cable strength...

Wire Rope is certainly varied in structure. However I do keep seeing the
1:5 load factor (1/5 of rating) in various Wire Rope 101 pamphlets...

It does appear that the folks selling wire rope are only too happy to
advise in its use - your friends would be advised to show them the
proposal for comment before they put too much weight on these wire ropes.

John

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[John Robertson]

On 09/29/2014, 5:38 PM, G. Ross wrote:

Danny D. wrote:
8>< Snip

At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and
WiFi and a great open view of the mountains.


8>< Snip

You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer.
Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be
a place to escape all that stuff.

Hmm, well with two separate cables your power requirements are fine,
just run them on 24VAC @ 50A (120VAC @ 10A equivalent) and then use step
up transformer or AC to DC regulators to power everything in the tree
house. No unsightly wires!

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:35:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:

beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this
would be a place to escape all that stuff.

The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further?

With your antenna that high, can't you pirate a
signal from a neighbor?

Who manages the network?

 

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 8:49 PM, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:38:51 -0400, "G. Ross" <gwr95@comwest.net
wrote:

You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the
beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this
would be a place to escape all that stuff.

The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further?

With your antenna that high, can't you pirate a
signal from a neighbor?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

 

[Grant Edwards]

On 2014-09-30, Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
years.

Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"?

That's generally considered offensive, racist, and ignorant.

> They love black beans and rice. They didn't seem to be offended.

Perhaps they have better manners.

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! This PORCUPINE knows
at his ZIPCODE ... And he has
gmail.com "VISA"!!

 

[Mike Marlow]

Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2014-09-30, Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
years.

Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"?

That's generally considered offensive, racist, and ignorant.

No - that's considered a Politcally Correct way of thinking. It's neither
ignorant, nor is it offensive, unless someone like yourself decides to
declare it so. But - your declaration does not make it reality. I would
argue that regardless of the PC community, things like this are not at all
"generally considered" to be the way you view them.


--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net