Breadboarding

E

Eeyore

Guest
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham
 
a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161CA-ND
Click to expand...
Not terribly convenient for the UK sadly. That's the sort of thing but you
could get individual IC package 'stick ons' and strips for interconnections
etc.

Graham
 
Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham

Make a layout on Eagle or your fav' tool, and get it fabricated at a
Click to expand...
fast-turn PCB house. If you're charging a reasonable rate you'll spend
less than two hours (and probably one) for a small hand full of 2-sided
boards, and you'll save more time than that by not having to fiddle with
a new technology or agonize over whether those stick down strips (or
whatever) are really doing their job.

And you'll have a much closer model to the real thing.

If you were in the US I'd send you to PCB Express
(http://www.pcbexpress.com/).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
On Sep 22, 1:36 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham
Click to expand...
surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161CA-ND
 
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:36:09 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham
Click to expand...
If you're in a hurry, build it live-bug on a piece of copperclad.

Things like this can help:

http://www.beldynsys.com/singledual.htm


But it's usually easier to do a quick-turn PCB.


John
 
Eeyore wrote:

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.
Click to expand...
I was right about wainwright but was getting too many hits to filter. Then I
recalled (from 28 years ago !) that the product was called "mini mounts" and
google this time got it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=ena&rls=en&hs=C5r&q=%22mini-mount%22+wainwright&btnG=Search

I don't recall it being German and I can't find a site selling any. I'm sure
there was a company in Bristol UK that sold them but maybe they've fallen
out of favour ? They were very popular for RF work in particular.

Graham
 
John Larkin wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

If you're in a hurry, build it live-bug on a piece of copperclad.

Things like this can help:

http://www.beldynsys.com/singledual.htm

But it's usually easier to do a quick-turn PCB.
Click to expand...
Can't disagree there but this is so few components !

If the timescale allows, we might be able to tack it on to another couple of
boards we'll be doing.

I did recall the product name in the end and google found it. Interesting but
brief comments from Bob Pease at the bottom of this link from there.
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=6105

Graham
 
John Larkin wrote:

Things like this can help:

http://www.beldynsys.com/singledual.htm
Click to expand...
Similar kind of thing. Except I only need a handful !

Graham
 
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
Similar kind of thing. Except I only need a handful !
Click to expand...
Next time someone tells me I'm wasting my time making my own boards,
I'm going to point them at this thread :)

Last time this came up, it got me thinking. I can etch on 8 mil FR4,
and double-stick tape that to an unetched copper clad board, to get
what I think you're asking for. But, not being an RF expert, I have
no idea how well it would "work". I think it would be worth the
effort to find out if this is a viable RF prototyping platform, just
to satisfy my curiosity, if you can send me a PDF of a SS layout (no
vias ;). Contact me off-list if you're interested.

DJ
 
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:25:23 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in
practice as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show
mine working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick
on a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161CA-ND

Not terribly convenient for the UK sadly. That's the sort of thing but you
could get individual IC package 'stick ons' and strips for
interconnections etc.
Click to expand...
How about pad-per-hole perfboard (preferably with ground plane on the
other side) and either fine wire or copper tape?

Have Fun!
Rich
 
DJ Delorie wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
Similar kind of thing. Except I only need a handful !

Next time someone tells me I'm wasting my time making my own boards,
I'm going to point them at this thread :)

Last time this came up, it got me thinking. I can etch on 8 mil FR4,
and double-stick tape that to an unetched copper clad board, to get
what I think you're asking for. But, not being an RF expert, I have
no idea how well it would "work". I think it would be worth the
effort to find out if this is a viable RF prototyping platform, just
to satisfy my curiosity, if you can send me a PDF of a SS layout (no
vias ;). Contact me off-list if you're interested.
Click to expand...
I only wish I could send you a Wainwright 'Mini-Mount' catalogue. I bet I
have one somewhere here in the archive.

It's just such a breeze to use. It could be a useful side income for
anyone.

Graham
 
Rich Grise wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in
practice as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show
mine working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick
on a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161CA-ND

Not terribly convenient for the UK sadly. That's the sort of thing but you
could get individual IC package 'stick ons' and strips for
interconnections etc.

How about pad-per-hole perfboard (preferably with ground plane on the
other side) and either fine wire or copper tape?
Click to expand...
Never seen one with ground plane on one side.

Graham
 
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:26:39 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

I was right about wainwright but was getting too many hits to filter. Then I
recalled (from 28 years ago !) that the product was called "mini mounts" and
google this time got it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=ena&rls=en&hs=C5r&q=%22mini-mount%22+wainwright&btnG=Search

I don't recall it being German and I can't find a site selling any. I'm sure
there was a company in Bristol UK that sold them but maybe they've fallen
out of favour ? They were very popular for RF work in particular.
Click to expand...
Also look at http://www.schmartboard.com/. Reasonable prices and their
newer boards use what they call "EZ technology" -- basically the
solder pads are recessed below the board surface. Carried by some
distributers over on this side of the pond; not sure about y'all tho.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
 
Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.
Click to expand...
So, who is responsible for seing to it that the production version of
this gizmo will actually work?

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
The world is coming to an end ... SAVE YOUR BUFFERS!!!
 
Tim Wescott wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham

Make a layout on Eagle or your fav' tool, and get it fabricated at a
fast-turn PCB house. If you're charging a reasonable rate you'll spend
less than two hours (and probably one) for a small hand full of 2-sided
boards, and you'll save more time than that by not having to fiddle with
a new technology or agonize over whether those stick down strips (or
whatever) are really doing their job.

And you'll have a much closer model to the real thing.

If you were in the US I'd send you to PCB Express
(http://www.pcbexpress.com/).
Click to expand...
How do they compare to expresspcb, whom I have used ?

Graham
 
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

So, who is responsible for seing to it that the production version of
this gizmo will actually work?
Click to expand...
The ultimate client. They just want a circuit.

Graham
 
On 22 Sep 2008 17:14:36 -0400, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
Similar kind of thing. Except I only need a handful !

Next time someone tells me I'm wasting my time making my own boards,
I'm going to point them at this thread :)

Last time this came up, it got me thinking. I can etch on 8 mil FR4,
and double-stick tape that to an unetched copper clad board, to get
what I think you're asking for. But, not being an RF expert, I have
no idea how well it would "work". I think it would be worth the
effort to find out if this is a viable RF prototyping platform, just
to satisfy my curiosity, if you can send me a PDF of a SS layout (no
vias ;). Contact me off-list if you're interested.

DJ
Click to expand...

You can get down to about 100 ps, 3 GHz or so, with Xacto knives and
copperclad. Kapton tape can be really helpful... stick down a small
square, notch out some ground windows, and solder the parts on top.

ftp://66.117.156.8/BB_fast.JPG


John
 
Eeyore wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

So, who is responsible for seing to it that the production version of
this gizmo will actually work?

The ultimate client. They just want a circuit.
Click to expand...
I used to love that sort of thing when I was back at Boeing. The H/W
contractor would build something and 'throw it over the wall'. If
anything didn't work, they'd just say, "You can fix it in the software".

;-)

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
From the moment I picked your book up until I put it down I was
convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it.
-- Groucho Marx, from "The Book of Insults"
 
Perhaps you could just buy thin copper tape and cut out the shapes you
need?
 
On Sep 23, 9:14 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in
practice as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show
mine working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick
on a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161...

Not terribly convenient for the UK sadly. That's the sort of thing but you
could get individual IC package 'stick ons' and strips for
interconnections etc.

How about pad-per-hole perfboard (preferably with ground plane on the
other side) and either fine wire or copper tape?

Never seen one with ground plane on one side.
Click to expand...
Farnell used to stock a prototyping board with a "collander ground
plane" on one side.

C.I.F. stills seems to make something like this

http://www.cif.fr/new/produits_aff.php3?cat=1&scat=1&sscat=3&p=169

as the AL 201 at the bottom of the list.

Farenell stocks it under order code 1201481. I'm fairly sure that this
isn't the part I used but it does seem to be the same kind of
prototyping board.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top