Bonus for engineers, is that done?

[Klaus Kragelund]

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

 

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 1:48:23 PM UTC-10, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

Not cash. That is for sales people. Engineers get stock options
with a 5 year vesting period.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 00.48.23 UTC+1 skrev Klaus Kragelund:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

I don't know if it is quite the same I've been in a big company where there was an annual bonus depending on he companys result and distributed depending on the annual evaluation you effort that year and a scale of how important you were
for the company

Sorta related I believe, a some (former) MĂŚrsk employees have won large sums
for inventing things that made MĂŚrsk large amounts of money

it is in the law that an employer gets inventions you make related to your job but if it is very valuable you must be compensated

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 16:11:28 -0800 (PST), omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 1:48:23 PM UTC-10, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

Not cash. That is for sales people. Engineers get stock options
with a 5 year vesting period.

We have two cash bonuses per year: one Christmas bonus, same amount to
all employees, and one fiscal year-end bonus, with scaling according
to salary and estimated performance/value.

Company 401K contributions are some per cent of salary, but that's all
controlled by law.

We don't bonus engineers, or anyone else, for specific project
savings. They are supposed to do that.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 22/01/2020 10:48 am, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

<cynic-mode>

Bonuses are decided by managers. Unless the managers have an engineering
background, they will assume that anything done by an engineer was easy,
and could have been done by any other engineer. Consequently, the issue
of bonuses will not arise.

Since the non-payment of bonuses to engineers will increase the
profitability of a department, the manager in charge may get a bonus as
a result.

Sylvia.

</cynic-mode>

 

[Chris Jones]

On 22/01/2020 10:48, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

When Intersil was trying to recruit me, the recruiting company mentioned
some sort of scheme wherein, if I remember rightly, chip designers could
get some sort of bonus or royalty percentage if they developed a
profitable product. I don't know how true it was because I didn't go to
work there.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 03.05.48 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 7:37:52 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 00.48.23 UTC+1 skrev Klaus Kragelund:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?


I don't know if it is quite the same I've been in a big company where there was an annual bonus depending on he companys result and distributed depending on the annual evaluation you effort that year and a scale of how important you were
for the company

That sounds rather like communism. JL's company appears to be more like feudalism. The consultant is capitalism.

how you figure? sounds like JL's company does basically the same

Sorta related I believe, a some (former) MĂŚrsk employees have won large sums
for inventing things that made MĂŚrsk large amounts of money

it is in the law that an employer gets inventions you make related to your job but if it is very valuable you must be compensated

For various values of "very valuable" and "compensated"... determined by whom?

if you can't get to an agreement eventually the courts

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 7:37:52 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 00.48.23 UTC+1 skrev Klaus Kragelund:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?


I don't know if it is quite the same I've been in a big company where there was an annual bonus depending on he companys result and distributed depending on the annual evaluation you effort that year and a scale of how important you were
for the company

That sounds rather like communism. JL's company appears to be more like feudalism. The consultant is capitalism.

Sorta related I believe, a some (former) MĂŚrsk employees have won large sums
for inventing things that made MĂŚrsk large amounts of money

it is in the law that an employer gets inventions you make related to your job but if it is very valuable you must be compensated

For various values of "very valuable" and "compensated"... determined by whom?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

We don't bonus engineers, or anyone else, for specific
project savings. They are supposed to do that.

What does that mean? An exceptional accomplishment,
evaluated in terms of project savings, instead of in
terms of expanded sales?


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 9:17:22 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 03.05.48 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 7:37:52 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 00.48.23 UTC+1 skrev Klaus Kragelund:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?


I don't know if it is quite the same I've been in a big company where there was an annual bonus depending on he companys result and distributed depending on the annual evaluation you effort that year and a scale of how important you were
for the company

That sounds rather like communism. JL's company appears to be more like feudalism. The consultant is capitalism.


how you figure? sounds like JL's company does basically the same

While he pays bonuses, they are at the discretion of the feudal lord. Who sets the "evaluation"...? It's not tied to specific performance. Actually I think I skimmed your post too quickly. It seems similar to JL's, but I don't know your company in any detail. I see that fonz.dk doesn't seem to be a web site.

Sorta related I believe, a some (former) MĂŚrsk employees have won large sums
for inventing things that made MĂŚrsk large amounts of money

it is in the law that an employer gets inventions you make related to your job but if it is very valuable you must be compensated

For various values of "very valuable" and "compensated"... determined by whom?

if you can't get to an agreement eventually the courts

So this is actually a law? I would expect there to be some manner of guidelines. What would the court use as a compass?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On 21 Jan 2020 18:04:09 -0800, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

We don't bonus engineers, or anyone else, for specific
project savings. They are supposed to do that.

What does that mean? An exceptional accomplishment,
evaluated in terms of project savings, instead of in
terms of expanded sales?

All employees get roughly the same FY-end percentage bonus, with some
modest tweaks for exceptionally high (or low) contributors. I'm
personally on the low end of the range.

We don't have project-specific bonuses.

I guess we could have negative bonuses, some punishment, if some
product doesn't sell, or if we have to fix something expensive.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 10:48:23 AM UTC+11, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

The problem with engineers is that they aren't competing with the other engineers in the same company, but all the engineers working for the companies that compete with their company.

If they come up with a profitable innovation before any of the competitors, their company gets a short term boost, until the competition works out what they've done and copies it (or if it's covered by a patent, works out a way to get the same benefit with a different innovation).

Companies that have tried to compensate the inventor or the development department with some kind of royalty on every product sold find that they have to re-negotaite the deal after a few years because it ends up paying out too much money.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Klaus Kragelund]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 3:04:24 AM UTC+1, Winfield Hill wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

We don't bonus engineers, or anyone else, for specific
project savings. They are supposed to do that.

What does that mean? An exceptional accomplishment,
evaluated in terms of project savings, instead of in
terms of expanded sales?

Sales people often have a contract that pays 10% incentive of the sales profit, so potential huge pay outs

Engineers are suckers, get's nothing for boosted sales

Cheers

Klaus

 

[Klaus Kragelund]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:37:52 AM UTC+1, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 00.48.23 UTC+1 skrev Klaus Kragelund:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?


I don't know if it is quite the same I've been in a big company where there was an annual bonus depending on he companys result and distributed depending on the annual evaluation you effort that year and a scale of how important you were
for the company

Sorta related I believe, a some (former) MĂŚrsk employees have won large sums
for inventing things that made MĂŚrsk large amounts of money

I read this one before, he got 700.000 USD in compensation:

https://ing.dk/artikel/kostbar-retssag-894


> it is in the law that an employer gets inventions you make related to your job but if it is very valuable you must be compensated

At our firm we get a bonus related to general performance and company EBIT etc. But it is quite low and not something we are in full control of

Cheers

Klaus

 

[Klaus Kragelund]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:36:45 AM UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 16:11:28 -0800 (PST), omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 1:48:23 PM UTC-10, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

Not cash. That is for sales people. Engineers get stock options
with a 5 year vesting period.

We have two cash bonuses per year: one Christmas bonus, same amount to
all employees, and one fiscal year-end bonus, with scaling according
to salary and estimated performance/value.

Company 401K contributions are some per cent of salary, but that's all
controlled by law.

We don't bonus engineers, or anyone else, for specific project
savings. They are supposed to do that.

But that does not get your employees to go the extra mile

Cheers

Klaus

 

[Martin Brown]

On 21/01/2020 23:48, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

It will depend on your contract and how generous or otherwise your
employer is. Unless it is in your contract of employment then the answer
is usually no. Although there have been a few hard fought cases in the
UK where someone made a massively profitable technical breakthrough and
then had to fight for decades to get any reward for their efforts.

This was the most high profile case in the UK only last year (scientist
rather than engineer but same principle) - Unilever vs Shanks.

https://www.marks-clerk.com/Home/Knowledge-News/Articles/Shanks-v-Unilever,-Inventor-of-Diabetes-Testing-Sy.aspx

AFAIK he is the only one to have won such a case and had to take it to
the supreme court to do so. All the others have given up in disgust.

By comparison the guy who invented the synthesis route for paraquat for
ICI in the 60's was very fairly treated by his more benevolent employer
(back then all UK employers were more benevolent than they are today).

> A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

The first company I worked for I was on the bonus scheme because what I
did for them seriously affected the profitability of the company. The
downside was that there was no paid overtime and sometimes you had to
just keep working until the job was done.

> I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

It does in some high tech industries - usually in smaller companies.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 6:48:23 PM UTC-5, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

I do not think I have ever received a bonus ( maybe gift cards or something nominal) that was outside the scope of bonuses that everyone else in the company received. Corporations are faced with the dilemma that 80% of the work is done by good, but not exceptional people. The other 20% is done by people who all think they individually are doing most of that extra 20%. Giving out individual bonuses (outside of management where everyone expects that and nobody actually knows who is getting the bonuses or how much) tends to just destroy morale. Companies cannot survive by singling out "rock stars" and rewarding them financially. It makes for one very happy person and hundreds of resentful people.

 

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 03:17:37 -0800 (PST), blocher@columbus.rr.com
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 6:48:23 PM UTC-5, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

I do not think I have ever received a bonus ( maybe gift cards or something nominal) that was outside the scope of bonuses that everyone else in the company received. Corporations are faced with the dilemma that 80% of the work is done by good, but not exceptional people. The other 20% is done by people who all think they individually are doing most of that extra 20%. Giving out individual bonuses (outside of management where everyone expects that and nobody actually knows who is getting the bonuses or how much) tends to just destroy morale. Companies cannot survive by singling out "rock stars" and rewarding them financially. It makes for one very happy person and hundreds of resentful people.

Look up Price's Law. I understand it's been verified in organizations
of various sizes.

I know of one large and successful semiconductor company where the
large majority of employees are useless or less. Managers are worse.

I agree that we should not make superstars of anyone, especially
engineers. If specially rewarded, it should be done quietly.

The most effective reward is probably salary. If you give them a
megabuck bonus, they will likely quit and become a surfer or
something.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 01:32:53 -0800 (PST), Klaus Kragelund
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:36:45 AM UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 16:11:28 -0800 (PST), omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 1:48:23 PM UTC-10, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?

Regards

Klaus

Not cash. That is for sales people. Engineers get stock options
with a 5 year vesting period.

We have two cash bonuses per year: one Christmas bonus, same amount to
all employees, and one fiscal year-end bonus, with scaling according
to salary and estimated performance/value.

Company 401K contributions are some per cent of salary, but that's all
controlled by law.

We don't bonus engineers, or anyone else, for specific project
savings. They are supposed to do that.

But that does not get your employees to go the extra mile

Cheers

Klaus

Except that we do.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 03.29.39 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 9:17:22 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 03.05.48 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 7:37:52 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 00.48.23 UTC+1 skrev Klaus Kragelund:
Let’s say you’re a standard paid engineer

Let’s say you put in an extraordinarily effort and saves your company +20 million dollars per year

A sales guy would be getting an enormous bonus, but are there any examples of engineers getting a percentage of the savings?

I know consulting firm do it like no cure no pay, but does it happen for employed engineers?


I don't know if it is quite the same I've been in a big company where there was an annual bonus depending on he companys result and distributed depending on the annual evaluation you effort that year and a scale of how important you were
for the company

That sounds rather like communism. JL's company appears to be more like feudalism. The consultant is capitalism.


how you figure? sounds like JL's company does basically the same

While he pays bonuses, they are at the discretion of the feudal lord. Who sets the "evaluation"...? It's not tied to specific performance. Actually I think I skimmed your post too quickly. It seems similar to JL's, but I don't know your company in any detail. I see that fonz.dk doesn't seem to be a web site.

not my company, a big international company I used to work for

Sorta related I believe, a some (former) MĂŚrsk employees have won large sums
for inventing things that made MĂŚrsk large amounts of money

it is in the law that an employer gets inventions you make related to your job but if it is very valuable you must be compensated

For various values of "very valuable" and "compensated"... determined by whom?

if you can't get to an agreement eventually the courts

So this is actually a law? I would expect there to be some manner of guidelines. What would the court use as a compass?

something patentable that is worth more than is to be expected from your
job and salary