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Looks to me like you objected to the statement that water is a very poor
conductor of heat.
** ROTFL !!I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
You don't think it's plausible?"Jordan"
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
** ROTFL !!
A fool informs another fool = fact.
Wot a hoot.
... Phil
"Jordan"
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
** ROTFL !!
A fool informs another fool = fact.
Wot a hoot.
You don't think it's plausible?
When the warm fluid rises, colder fluid has to descend, otherwise you'dOn 24/08/12 19:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 6:46 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 12:46, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 11:12 AM, Jordan wrote:
That is, if a clock makes it come on at night time only, when
demand is
low, you'd miss on the occasional top up through the day (during brief
periods when demand is also low). I think that's the advantage of
signalled systems - otherwise we'd all just have clocks?
There's no top-up on the tariff I'm on. In any case, as I understand
it,
top-ups require a separate element, higher up in the storage tank,
which
mine doesn't have.
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
But the effect of doing that is to cause convection that mixes the
remaining hot water with the cold water, which is undesirable except
when restoring the temperature of all the water to "hot". Unless the
latter is achieved, users will find that the water is tepid.
The boost systems use a separate element higher up in the tank. The idea
is that it only produces convection above it, and so has less water to
heat back to "hot".
Sylvia.
OK, I'll have to accept that might happen. I didn't think it'd stir
things up that much, thinking just that warmer fluids rise.
A boost element is placed at the top to provide usable hot water asOn 24/08/2012 7:49 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 19:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 6:46 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 12:46, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 11:12 AM, Jordan wrote:
That is, if a clock makes it come on at night time only, when
demand is
low, you'd miss on the occasional top up through the day (during
brief
periods when demand is also low). I think that's the advantage of
signalled systems - otherwise we'd all just have clocks?
There's no top-up on the tariff I'm on. In any case, as I understand
it,
top-ups require a separate element, higher up in the storage tank,
which
mine doesn't have.
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
But the effect of doing that is to cause convection that mixes the
remaining hot water with the cold water, which is undesirable except
when restoring the temperature of all the water to "hot". Unless the
latter is achieved, users will find that the water is tepid.
The boost systems use a separate element higher up in the tank. The idea
is that it only produces convection above it, and so has less water to
heat back to "hot".
Sylvia.
OK, I'll have to accept that might happen. I didn't think it'd stir
things up that much, thinking just that warmer fluids rise.
When the warm fluid rises, colder fluid has to descend, otherwise you'd
end up with cavities in the fluid, which isn't going to happen.
Sylvia.
Why do you expect thermal convection to mix the cold and hot water?On 24/08/2012 6:46 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 12:46, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 11:12 AM, Jordan wrote:
That is, if a clock makes it come on at night time only, when demand is
low, you'd miss on the occasional top up through the day (during brief
periods when demand is also low). I think that's the advantage of
signalled systems - otherwise we'd all just have clocks?
There's no top-up on the tariff I'm on. In any case, as I understand it,
top-ups require a separate element, higher up in the storage tank, which
mine doesn't have.
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
But the effect of doing that is to cause convection that mixes the
remaining hot water with the cold water, which is undesirable except
when restoring the temperature of all the water to "hot". Unless the
latter is achieved, users will find that the water is tepid.
the element will heat all thwe water above it, if you want to heatThe boost systems use a separate element higher up in the tank. The idea
is that it only produces convection above it, and so has less water to
heat back to "hot".
Sylvia.
A combination of different pressures resulting from the reduction inOn 24/08/12 22:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 7:49 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 19:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 6:46 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 12:46, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 11:12 AM, Jordan wrote:
That is, if a clock makes it come on at night time only, when
demand is
low, you'd miss on the occasional top up through the day (during
brief
periods when demand is also low). I think that's the advantage of
signalled systems - otherwise we'd all just have clocks?
There's no top-up on the tariff I'm on. In any case, as I understand
it,
top-ups require a separate element, higher up in the storage tank,
which
mine doesn't have.
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element
might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
But the effect of doing that is to cause convection that mixes the
remaining hot water with the cold water, which is undesirable except
when restoring the temperature of all the water to "hot". Unless the
latter is achieved, users will find that the water is tepid.
The boost systems use a separate element higher up in the tank. The
idea
is that it only produces convection above it, and so has less water to
heat back to "hot".
Sylvia.
OK, I'll have to accept that might happen. I didn't think it'd stir
things up that much, thinking just that warmer fluids rise.
When the warm fluid rises, colder fluid has to descend, otherwise you'd
end up with cavities in the fluid, which isn't going to happen.
Sylvia.
A boost element is placed at the top to provide usable hot water as
quickly as possible, not to avoid a paradoxical cooling effect.
What is your view on the mechanism that brings about mixing of hot &
colder water?
It's far from obvious that the mixing is that fast. Anyway, even theOn 2012-08-24, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 24/08/2012 6:46 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 24/08/12 12:46, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 24/08/2012 11:12 AM, Jordan wrote:
That is, if a clock makes it come on at night time only, when demand is
low, you'd miss on the occasional top up through the day (during brief
periods when demand is also low). I think that's the advantage of
signalled systems - otherwise we'd all just have clocks?
There's no top-up on the tariff I'm on. In any case, as I understand it,
top-ups require a separate element, higher up in the storage tank, which
mine doesn't have.
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
But the effect of doing that is to cause convection that mixes the
remaining hot water with the cold water, which is undesirable except
when restoring the temperature of all the water to "hot". Unless the
latter is achieved, users will find that the water is tepid.
Why do you expect thermal convection to mix the cold and hot water?
What could cause the hot water to move down and mix with the cold water?
as the element heeat the cold water gets warm and rises it soon mixes
with the cold water above the element and produces a slower less
heated current, this continues, you won't ge whole tank circulation
currents until the whole tank is essentially at the same temperature.
Possibly more to do with the latent heat of evaporation than conduction"Sylvia Else"
Storage hot-water systems rely on the fact that water is a very poor
conductor of heat,
** That ( oft heard) comment always grates heavily with me - cos water sure
ain't no thermal insulator !!
Nothing cools something down faster that dumping it into cold water or
pouring cold water all over it - fire brigades have relied on this fact
for quite a while now ....
I contacted my provider:"Jordan"
Phil Allison wrote:
"Jordan"
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
** ROTFL !!
A fool informs another fool = fact.
Wot a hoot.
You don't think it's plausible?
** Syliva pretty much nailed it.
Your turn..............
LOL !
... Phil
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element
might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
** ROTFL !!
A fool informs another fool = fact.
Wot a hoot.
You don't think it's plausible?
There is a option to change to Off Peak 2 which also heats between
approximately 11pm to 7am plus you receive a 5 Hour boost during the day.
I am indeed foolish to attempt sensible conversation with you."Jordan"
Phil Allison wrote:
I don't mean a separate boost element, just that the main element
might
come on at any time there is adequate power available.
A plumber told me, and it sounds plausible.
** ROTFL !!
A fool informs another fool = fact.
Wot a hoot.
You don't think it's plausible?
There is a option to change to Off Peak 2 which also heats between
approximately 11pm to 7am plus you receive a 5 Hour boost during the day.
** 5 hours is long enough to heat an entire tank from cold - not some "
brief period " or " top up" as you falsely alluded to. Plus it is not
"occasional".
Quote from you on the 24th:
" ... you'd miss on the occasional top up through the day (during brief
periods when demand is also low). "
Piss off, fool.
..... Phil
Ausgrid fitted the timeswitch today.We've had a couple of problems with our off-peak hot water recently, and
last night, at 2:45 am (don't ask!), I noticed that the switch was still
off. So I called Ausgrid's emergency number, and they organised for
someone to come out this morning, which they did, at about 6:15 am.
Anyway, the guy simply bridged the switch, and attached a note saying
that it needed to be replaced by a time clock because of "ongoing signal
issues".
"Ongoing?"
Can they tell that there's a signal issue when the switching signal
isn't being sent? Is there a constant pilot signal?
Or did Ausgrid already know that a problem was likely, and just waited
for me to complain?
Sylvia.
I decided to do the right thing, and informed Energy Australia, viaOn 23/08/2012 10:13 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
We've had a couple of problems with our off-peak hot water recently, and
last night, at 2:45 am (don't ask!), I noticed that the switch was still
off. So I called Ausgrid's emergency number, and they organised for
someone to come out this morning, which they did, at about 6:15 am.
Anyway, the guy simply bridged the switch, and attached a note saying
that it needed to be replaced by a time clock because of "ongoing signal
issues".
"Ongoing?"
Can they tell that there's a signal issue when the switching signal
isn't being sent? Is there a constant pilot signal?
Or did Ausgrid already know that a problem was likely, and just waited
for me to complain?
Sylvia.
Ausgrid fitted the timeswitch today.
At 11am it's letting the water heater run, which it shouldn't. So it's
been programmed wrongly. How hard can it be?
Sylvia.
On 7/09/2012 11:11 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 23/08/2012 10:13 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
We've had a couple of problems with our off-peak hot water recently, and
last night, at 2:45 am (don't ask!), I noticed that the switch was still
off. So I called Ausgrid's emergency number, and they organised for
someone to come out this morning, which they did, at about 6:15 am.
Anyway, the guy simply bridged the switch, and attached a note saying
that it needed to be replaced by a time clock because of "ongoing signal
issues".
"Ongoing?"
Can they tell that there's a signal issue when the switching signal
isn't being sent? Is there a constant pilot signal?
Or did Ausgrid already know that a problem was likely, and just waited
for me to complain?
Sylvia.
Ausgrid fitted the timeswitch today.
At 11am it's letting the water heater run, which it shouldn't. So it's
been programmed wrongly. How hard can it be?
Sylvia.
I decided to do the right thing, and informed Energy Australia, via
their web contact page. I got a response today.
-------------
Thank you for your enquiry.
The information you have provided is not sufficient for us to process
your enquiry.
Please provide:
Your account number and/or address of property
Your full name
Date of birth
Home phone number
Mobile phone number:"
-------------
I did give them the address. Oh well, they've been informed. It's not my
problem anymore.
Sylvia.
As long as you have hot water at op rates don't worry about their stupidity
Indeed.Sylvia Else wrote:
On 7/09/2012 11:11 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 23/08/2012 10:13 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
We've had a couple of problems with our off-peak hot water recently,
and
last night, at 2:45 am (don't ask!), I noticed that the switch was
still
off. So I called Ausgrid's emergency number, and they organised for
someone to come out this morning, which they did, at about 6:15 am.
Anyway, the guy simply bridged the switch, and attached a note saying
that it needed to be replaced by a time clock because of "ongoing
signal
issues".
"Ongoing?"
Can they tell that there's a signal issue when the switching signal
isn't being sent? Is there a constant pilot signal?
Or did Ausgrid already know that a problem was likely, and just waited
for me to complain?
Sylvia.
Ausgrid fitted the timeswitch today.
At 11am it's letting the water heater run, which it shouldn't. So it's
been programmed wrongly. How hard can it be?
Sylvia.
I decided to do the right thing, and informed Energy Australia, via
their web contact page. I got a response today.
-------------
Thank you for your enquiry.
The information you have provided is not sufficient for us to process
your enquiry.
Please provide:
Your account number and/or address of property
Your full name
Date of birth
Home phone number
Mobile phone number:"
-------------
I did give them the address. Oh well, they've been informed. It's not my
problem anymore.
Sylvia.
As long as you have hot water at op rates don't worry about their stupidity