Best Soldering Iron for SMT Work?

[Doug White]

I've used Metcal MX-500's at work for about 12 years now, and really love
them. I'm looking to do more electronics work at home when I retire
soon, and need to replace my ancient Weller WTCP station. It works
great, but isn't really suited to fine SMT devices. The dual ports on
the Metcal also make it easy to switch back & forth from a fine tip to
something a bit more brute force. I do a lot of RF work, with heavy
ground planes, and the Metcal works fantastic for that sort of mixed
application. I've used a variety on irons in the past, from Ungar's to
Antex, PACE & Weller. Nothing I've tried compares to the Metcal.

I figure I can get a Metcal on eBay for a reasonable price if I'm
patient. However, it occured to me that they've been around for at least
12 years, and there _might_ just be something better out by now. I know
Metcal also has a new design out with a display. It apparently has more
power, but I think it works with the same tips.

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit of
investment.

Is Metcal still the best out there, or has Hakko or somebody else got a
decent competing product?

Thanks!

Doug White

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu>
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit of
investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem. It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money. If your price ceiling is about $200, you're below
the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations, which can
cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories. For cheap, I suggest:
<http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543>

This is what you get for about $200:
<http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg>
<http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766>

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these. I've played
with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to see if
it's junk or quality. The availablity of nozzles, replacement parts,
and repair items is reassuring.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Sansui Samari]

On Feb 14, 2:56 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

I've used Metcal MX-500's at work for about 12 years now, and really love
them.  I'm looking to do more electronics work at home when I retire
soon, and need to replace my ancient Weller WTCP station.  It works
great, but isn't really suited to fine SMT devices.  The dual ports on
the Metcal also make it easy to switch back & forth from a fine tip to
something a bit more brute force.  I do a lot of RF work, with heavy
ground planes, and the Metcal works fantastic for that sort of mixed
application.  I've used a variety on irons in the past, from Ungar's to
Antex, PACE & Weller.  Nothing I've tried compares to the Metcal.

I figure I can get a Metcal on eBay for a reasonable price if I'm
patient.  However, it occured to me that they've been around for at least
12 years, and there _might_ just be something better out by now.  I know
Metcal also has a new design out with a display.  It apparently has more
power, but I think it works with the same tips.

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.  
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit of
investment.

Is Metcal still the best out there, or has Hakko or somebody else got a
decent competing product?

Thanks!

Doug White

I thinks it's largely a personal choice. I haven't found anything
that I like as well as my old hexacon therm-o-trac (http://
www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html). It's small enough that it isn't
in my way, rugged enough that I can solder large heavy ground planes,
and with delicate enough temperature control, that I can do fine smt
work. You have to unscrew a retainer to change the tip. I used to
use a small pair of pliers to change tips in a hurry. I think I
bought it for 10 bucks when the company I worked at went down the
tubes.
We had a bunch of different wellers, and metcals at the board
shop. I don't think anyone really liked the wellers. A lot of the
solderers doing the smt really liked metcals, but it never felt like
they kept the temp right to me, and the cords always seemed to be
knotted up in everything.

 

[Doug White]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit
of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem. It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money. If your price ceiling is about $200, you're below
the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations, which can
cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories. For cheap, I suggest:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these. I've played
with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to see if
it's junk or quality. The availablity of nozzles, replacement parts,
and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't the
issue. As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick. As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do. Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down. I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil. A lot will depend on how circuit work I end
up doing. I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

Doug White

 

[Doug White]

Sansui Samari <jimjam1942@gmail.com> wrote in
news:f4fc237e-e532-4e78-a996-a405fe16efe9@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com:

On Feb 14, 2:56 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
I've used Metcal MX-500's at work for about 12 years now, and really
love them.  I'm looking to do more electronics work at home when I
retire soon, and need to replace my ancient Weller WTCP station.  It
works great, but isn't really suited to fine SMT devices.  The dual
ports on the Metcal also make it easy to switch back & forth from a
fine tip to something a bit more brute force.  I do a lot of RF work,
with heavy ground planes, and the Metcal works fantastic for that
sort of mixed application.  I've used a variety on irons in the past,
from Ungar's to Antex, PACE & Weller.  Nothing I've tried compares to
the Metcal.

I figure I can get a Metcal on eBay for a reasonable price if I'm
patient.  However, it occured to me that they've been around for at
least 12 years, and there _might_ just be something better out by
now.  I know Metcal also has a new design out with a display.  It
apparently has more power, but I think it works with the same tips.

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.
  That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a
bit of investment.

Is Metcal still the best out there, or has Hakko or somebody else got
a decent competing product?

Thanks!

Doug White

I thinks it's largely a personal choice. I haven't found anything
that I like as well as my old hexacon therm-o-trac (http://www.
hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html). It's small enough that it isn't
in my way, rugged enough that I can solder large heavy ground planes,
and with delicate enough temperature control, that I can do fine smt
work. You have to unscrew a retainer to change the tip. I used to
use a small pair of pliers to change tips in a hurry. I think I
bought it for 10 bucks when the company I worked at went down the
tubes.
We had a bunch of different wellers, and metcals at the board
shop. I don't think anyone really liked the wellers. A lot of the
solderers doing the smt really liked metcals, but it never felt like
they kept the temp right to me, and the cords always seemed to be
knotted up in everything.

The cords can be a bit tangly, but I think it's because they are longer
than some, as well as limp & flexible. I've gotten used to them.

Doug White

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:39:52 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu>
wrote:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't the
issue.

Figure again. It's not the hot air station that will empty your bank
account. It's the accessories such as tips, filters, tips, and pump
parts. You're highly likely to end up with a desoldering station
that's missing these items, or has been used enough to require a pump
rebuild or new heater element. Caveat emptor. For a tool that gets
used so often, I would buy new.

Here's another one that I've been looking at:
<http://hackaday.com/2009/02/20/tools-aoyue-968-3-in-1-soldering-and-rework-station/>
<http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=76>
also for about $200.

As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick.

Like this?
<http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101>
I still do it that way when I don't want to wait for my Pace
desoldering station to warm up. I've done it like that since I first
learned which end of the soldering iron to grab. It works, but once I
tried using hot air, desoldering tweezers, and vacuum pickup tools, I
was permanently spoiled.

As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do.

I do plenty of RF also. Fixing cell phones (a masochistic and largely
wasted exercise) really can't be done with solder wick, solder sucker,
and big tip soldering iron.

Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down.

Ummm... you also have to clean up the mess you made on the board.
Replacement is comparatively easy. I use a drop of super-glue to hold
the part in place. When I hit it with the iron, it doesn't move. If
I slop some on the pad, the heat from the iron just vaporizes the
super-glue into a toxic cloud of eye irritating smog. (Hint: get your
head out of the way or using a smog sucker hose on the iron).

I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil. A lot will depend on how circuit work I end
up doing. I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

It's a good plan except that both of the hot air stations I mentioned
also include a soldering iron or gun.

Incidentally, most of my assortment of irons are Weller. That's not
because I like them. It's because I picked up a huge pile of broken
Weller irons and stations and have been slowly raising them from the
dead. I once joked that it was a lifetime supply, and may have been
right.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Sansui Samari]

On Feb 14, 6:39 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote innews:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:



On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.  
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit
of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem.  It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money.  If your price ceiling is about $200, you're below
the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations, which can
cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories.  For cheap, I suggest:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these.  I've played
with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to see if
it's junk or quality.  The availablity of nozzles, replacement parts,
and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't the
issue.  As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick.  As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do.  Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down.  I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil.  A lot will depend on how circuit work I end
up doing.  I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

Doug White

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hexacon-Soldering-Tip-for-2300-Chisel-1-4-quot-J802X_W0QQitemZ200430997117QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2eaa9e4e7d

For $16, it would be worth the risk, if you didn't like. I love the
things though. I think the older ones were a bit better though.

-J

 

[Sansui Samari]

On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 14, 6:39 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:



Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote innews:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.  
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit
of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem.  It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money.  If your price ceiling is about $200, you're below
the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations, which can
cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories.  For cheap, I suggest:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these.  I've played
with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to see if
it's junk or quality.  The availablity of nozzles, replacement parts,
and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't the
issue.  As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick.  As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do.  Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down.  I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil.  A lot will depend on how circuit work I end
up doing.  I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

Doug White

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hexacon-Soldering-Tip-for-2300-Chisel-1-4-quot-J8...

For $16, it would be worth the risk, if you didn't like.  I love the
things though.  I think the older ones were a bit better though.

-J

Nevermind, that's just a tip.... Good thing they show the whole
iron. Jerks.

 

[Sansui Samari]

On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 14, 6:39 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:



Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote innews:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.  
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit
of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem.  It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money.  If your price ceiling is about $200, you're below
the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations, which can
cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories.  For cheap, I suggest:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these.  I've played
with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to see if
it's junk or quality.  The availablity of nozzles, replacement parts,
and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't the
issue.  As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick.  As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do.  Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down.  I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil.  A lot will depend on how circuit work I end
up doing.  I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

Doug White

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hexacon-Soldering-Tip-for-2300-Chisel-1-4-quot-J8...

For $16, it would be worth the risk, if you didn't like.  I love the
things though.  I think the older ones were a bit better though.

-J

Nevermind, that's just a tip.... Good thing they show the whole
iron. Jerks.

 

[Sansui Samari]

On Feb 14, 6:45 pm, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Feb 14, 6:39 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote innews:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup..  
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a bit
of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem.  It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money.  If your price ceiling is about $200, you're below
the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations, which can
cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories.  For cheap, I suggest:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these.  I've played
with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to see if
it's junk or quality.  The availablity of nozzles, replacement parts,
and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't the
issue.  As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick.  As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do.  Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down.  I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil.  A lot will depend on how circuit work I end
up doing.  I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

Doug White

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hexacon-Soldering-Tip-for-2300-Chisel-1-4-quot-J8...

For $16, it would be worth the risk, if you didn't like.  I love the
things though.  I think the older ones were a bit better though.

-J

Nevermind, that's just a tip....  Good thing they show the whole
iron.  Jerks.

Aha... there it is -
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hexacon-Therm-O-Trac-Model-1002-Soldering-Station_W0QQitemZ380013357693QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item587a8faa7d

Now that I've muddled the whole post up...

 

[Jim Yanik]

Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9D1FDC61689D6gwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.50:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a
bit of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem. It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money. If your price ceiling is about $200, you're
below the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations,
which can cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories. For cheap, I
suggest: <http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these. I've
played with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to
see if it's junk or quality. The availablity of nozzles, replacement
parts, and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't
the issue. As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the
Metcal, liquid flux and solderwick. As I said, I mostly work on RF
stuff, and I typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way
the digital types do. Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I
still need to get a replacement soldered down. I figured once I got a
decent iron, I'd look into a hot air pencil. A lot will depend on how
circuit work I end up doing. I will be assembling more than repairing
(I hope).

Doug White

you shouldn't use solderwick(or solderpullts) on SMT boards,you'll lift the
pads.
too much dwell time,applies too much heat to the tiny pads.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Jim Yanik]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:ipdhn5518mor4eaki5ofk2hb59rlgdjqqp@4ax.com:

Ummm... you also have to clean up the mess you made on the board.
Replacement is comparatively easy. I use a drop of super-glue to hold
the part in place. When I hit it with the iron, it doesn't move. If
I slop some on the pad, the heat from the iron just vaporizes the
super-glue into a toxic cloud of eye irritating smog. (Hint: get your
head out of the way or using a smog sucker hose on the iron).

small tip;
I use a small fan to blow gently across my work,directing unhealthy vapors
away from me.I bought a small fan from Wal-Mart for less than $10.You can
get clip-on or one with a base. Or,like I used to do,wire a power cord and
switch to a 120VAC "whisper fan" from an old instrument.(cooling fan,very
quiet)I even use one for chopping onions in the kitchen; No tears!

I figured once I got a decent iron, I'd
look into a hot air pencil. A lot will depend on how circuit work I
end up doing. I will be assembling more than repairing (I hope).

It's a good plan except that both of the hot air stations I mentioned
also include a soldering iron or gun.

Incidentally, most of my assortment of irons are Weller. That's not
because I like them. It's because I picked up a huge pile of broken
Weller irons and stations and have been slowly raising them from the
dead. I once joked that it was a lifetime supply, and may have been
right.

I've used the Pace vacuum desoldering system,too,while at TEK.
Not inexpensive,though.
And I still preferred my Antex 15w iron with a filed-down non-clad tip for
soldering the small SMD stuff. The smaller SMD Pace tips (iron-clad)rotted
out too quickly.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:46:36 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

I use a small fan to blow gently across my work,directing unhealthy vapors
away from me.

Duz that really work with small components? I tried a recycled CPU
fan with an alligator clip for mounting and found that even the
slightest breeze causes difficulties soldering or desoldering. My
home workshop does have a heater so I use a small electric heater and
fan. When soldering, I have to turn it off.

Also, I wasn't joking about the toxic smog from soldering super-glue.
The stuff really reeks and seems highly irritating. Fortunately, I
don't use much when soldering. Gently blowing it around the shop
seems like an invitation to accidentally stick my head into one of the
floating clouds of burnt super-glue. Without a fan, at least I know
where not to put my head.

I bought a small fan from Wal-Mart for less than $10.You can
get clip-on or one with a base. Or,like I used to do,wire a power cord and
switch to a 120VAC "whisper fan" from an old instrument.(cooling fan,very
quiet)I even use one for chopping onions in the kitchen; No tears!

Methinks tears from cutting onions is a basic ingredient of much of my
cooking. Crying is part of the recipe.

I've used the Pace vacuum desoldering system,too,while at TEK.

I found an old Pace something desoldering station for peanuts at a
thrift shop. They didn't know what it was. Works really nice.
However, it's not a hot air desoldering system and is therefore fairly
useless for SMT parts.

Not inexpensive,though.

No kidding. I replaced a few parts and had sticker shock. I now use
vinyl hoses, fuel filters, and brazing tip cleaners, instead of the
official Pace equivalents.

And I still preferred my Antex 15w iron with a filed-down non-clad tip for
soldering the small SMD stuff. The smaller SMD Pace tips (iron-clad)rotted
out too quickly.

I once tried to re-plate my collection of burned out tips. I also
made some from scratch. The core metal is copper. On top of that is
a layer of iron, then nickel, and finally solder plate. First, filing
and an acid cleaning bath. I then slowly electroplated some iron, in
a ferrous chloride plus calcium chloride bath, onto what was left of
the tip. Electroless nickel dip followed. I also tried some
electroless silver. I then masked off the tip, and hard black chromed
the rest of the tip. It worked but wasn't worth the cost and effort.
A new tip was considerably cheaper. The tip life appeared to be
dependent on the thickness of the nickel or silver layer. Electroless
plating just doesn't apply a thick enough layer. Silver seemed to
last a bit longer. I was thinking of trying again, this time plating
the nickel or silver layer.

I'm not sure if the Pace tips are copper-nickel-iron, or the more
common copper-iron-nickel. They may even be solid iron with no
plating, which would certainly oxidize and pit rapidly. That might
explain the short observed lifetime. I would check my Pace, but I
only have the thru-hole desoldering tip.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Rich Webb]

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:29:13 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:46:36 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

I use a small fan to blow gently across my work,directing unhealthy vapors
away from me.

Duz that really work with small components? I tried a recycled CPU
fan with an alligator clip for mounting and found that even the
slightest breeze causes difficulties soldering or desoldering. My
home workshop does have a heater so I use a small electric heater and
fan. When soldering, I have to turn it off.

Also, I wasn't joking about the toxic smog from soldering super-glue.
The stuff really reeks and seems highly irritating. Fortunately, I
don't use much when soldering. Gently blowing it around the shop
seems like an invitation to accidentally stick my head into one of the
floating clouds of burnt super-glue. Without a fan, at least I know
where not to put my head.

Get one of these http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/426dlx.html
and position it, as shown, just behind your work area. I've been using
the stand-alone model (sans iron) for years and love it. Or, rig your
surplus CPU blower so that it takes a suction on, rather than blows
over, where you're working.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Jim Yanik]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:89vhn5tkl27h1f187oshrf250cvt5dtkq6@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:46:36 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

I use a small fan to blow gently across my work,directing unhealthy
vapors away from me.

Duz that really work with small components? I tried a recycled CPU
fan with an alligator clip for mounting and found that even the
slightest breeze causes difficulties soldering or desoldering. My
home workshop does have a heater so I use a small electric heater and
fan. When soldering, I have to turn it off.

the fans I've used were no problem.I didn't keep it close,it was about 20"
away,and only gave a slight breeze(on Low). the "whisper fan"(4.7" muffin
fan,low CFM) was very good for that,but it was salvaged from an old TEK
scope,and I had to kluge a mounting for it. a CPU fan would be rather
annoyingly noisy,too.

Also, I wasn't joking about the toxic smog from soldering super-glue.
The stuff really reeks and seems highly irritating. Fortunately, I
don't use much when soldering. Gently blowing it around the shop
seems like an invitation to accidentally stick my head into one of the
floating clouds of burnt super-glue. Without a fan, at least I know
where not to put my head.

Well,my fan worked well with the fumes from soldering,I can't see it being
any different with cyano fumes.

I bought a small fan from Wal-Mart for less than $10.You can
get clip-on or one with a base. Or,like I used to do,wire a power cord
and switch to a 120VAC "whisper fan" from an old instrument.(cooling
fan,very quiet)I even use one for chopping onions in the kitchen; No
tears!

Methinks tears from cutting onions is a basic ingredient of much of my
cooking. Crying is part of the recipe.

NAH.
tears make it hard to use the knives without nicking myself.... ;-)

I've used the Pace vacuum desoldering system,too,while at TEK.

I found an old Pace something desoldering station for peanuts at a
thrift shop. They didn't know what it was. Works really nice.
However, it's not a hot air desoldering system and is therefore fairly
useless for SMT parts.

Not inexpensive,though.

No kidding. I replaced a few parts and had sticker shock. I now use
vinyl hoses, fuel filters, and brazing tip cleaners, instead of the
official Pace equivalents.

And I still preferred my Antex 15w iron with a filed-down non-clad tip
for soldering the small SMD stuff. The smaller SMD Pace tips
(iron-clad)rotted out too quickly.

I once tried to re-plate my collection of burned out tips. I also
made some from scratch. The core metal is copper. On top of that is
a layer of iron, then nickel, and finally solder plate. First, filing
and an acid cleaning bath. I then slowly electroplated some iron, in
a ferrous chloride plus calcium chloride bath, onto what was left of
the tip. Electroless nickel dip followed. I also tried some
electroless silver. I then masked off the tip, and hard black chromed
the rest of the tip. It worked but wasn't worth the cost and effort.

Yeah,that IS a lot of effort.

A new tip was considerably cheaper. The tip life appeared to be
dependent on the thickness of the nickel or silver layer. Electroless
plating just doesn't apply a thick enough layer. Silver seemed to
last a bit longer. I was thinking of trying again, this time plating
the nickel or silver layer.

I'm not sure if the Pace tips are copper-nickel-iron, or the more
common copper-iron-nickel. They may even be solid iron with no
plating, which would certainly oxidize and pit rapidly. That might
explain the short observed lifetime. I would check my Pace, but I
only have the thru-hole desoldering tip.

the PACE SMT tips I had at TEK were iron-clad,except for the really
expensive IC removal tips. Not usually a problem except on the tiny
tips.they would quickly lose their "wettability" and be terrible for
soldering fine pitch leads.At least with the plain copper Antex tips,I
could refile and retin them until they were too short.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Doug White]

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9D1FF0535ED04jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44:

Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9D1FDC61689D6gwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.50:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good setup.
That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've ever
struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's worth a
bit of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem. It's unsoldering that drives me
to spend the money. If your price ceiling is about $200, you're
below the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations,
which can cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories. For cheap, I
suggest: <http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these. I've
played with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to
see if it's junk or quality. The availablity of nozzles,
replacement parts, and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price isn't
the issue. As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the
Metcal, liquid flux and solderwick. As I said, I mostly work on RF
stuff, and I typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the
way the digital types do. Besides, once I have something unsoldered,
I still need to get a replacement soldered down. I figured once I
got a decent iron, I'd look into a hot air pencil. A lot will depend
on how circuit work I end up doing. I will be assembling more than
repairing (I hope).

Doug White


you shouldn't use solderwick(or solderpullts) on SMT boards,you'll
lift the pads.
too much dwell time,applies too much heat to the tiny pads.

You certainly have to be careful. Solderpullets are a menace because of
the recoil. The biggest problem I've had is with specialize RF material.
The copper adhesion is usually much worse than FR-4, and it toasts
easily. I probably won't be working with that stuff much at home.

Doug White

 

[Doug White]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:ipdhn5518mor4eaki5ofk2hb59rlgdjqqp@4ax.com:

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:39:52 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu
wrote:
snip
As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with the Metcal,
liquid flux and solderwick.

Like this?
http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101
I still do it that way when I don't want to wait for my Pace
desoldering station to warm up. I've done it like that since I first
learned which end of the soldering iron to grab. It works, but once I
tried using hot air, desoldering tweezers, and vacuum pickup tools, I
was permanently spoiled.

As I said, I mostly work on RF stuff, and I
typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with the way the digital
types do.

I do plenty of RF also. Fixing cell phones (a masochistic and largely
wasted exercise) really can't be done with solder wick, solder sucker,
and big tip soldering iron.

Besides, once I have something unsoldered, I still need to get
a replacement soldered down.

Ummm... you also have to clean up the mess you made on the board.
Replacement is comparatively easy. I use a drop of super-glue to hold
the part in place. When I hit it with the iron, it doesn't move. If
I slop some on the pad, the heat from the iron just vaporizes the
super-glue into a toxic cloud of eye irritating smog. (Hint: get your
head out of the way or using a smog sucker hose on the iron).

I usually use a tiny dab of flux, which holds the part in place. I also
have a "part holder" I built that I may put into production for sale when
I retire. It uses an orange stick with a bit of pivoting weight to hold
parts down. The orange stick can be whittled into any shape that suits,
and when it gets toasted, you just replace it.

The flux fumes can also be obnoxious, but no near as bad as super-glue.
I find a fan blowing away from me helps without causing enough of a draft
to affect my soldering.

Pace must have improved their stuff. We bought a full setup in the mid-
80's, and it was a pain in the neck to use. It collected dust within 6
months.

Doug White

 

[Doug White]

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9D20612558A32jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:89vhn5tkl27h1f187oshrf250cvt5dtkq6@4ax.com:
snip
I once tried to re-plate my collection of burned out tips. I also
made some from scratch. The core metal is copper. On top of that is
a layer of iron, then nickel, and finally solder plate. First,
filing and an acid cleaning bath. I then slowly electroplated some
iron, in a ferrous chloride plus calcium chloride bath, onto what was
left of the tip. Electroless nickel dip followed. I also tried some
electroless silver. I then masked off the tip, and hard black
chromed the rest of the tip. It worked but wasn't worth the cost and
effort.

Yeah,that IS a lot of effort.

A new tip was considerably cheaper. The tip life appeared to be
dependent on the thickness of the nickel or silver layer.
Electroless plating just doesn't apply a thick enough layer. Silver
seemed to last a bit longer. I was thinking of trying again, this
time plating the nickel or silver layer.

I'm not sure if the Pace tips are copper-nickel-iron, or the more
common copper-iron-nickel. They may even be solid iron with no
plating, which would certainly oxidize and pit rapidly. That might
explain the short observed lifetime. I would check my Pace, but I
only have the thru-hole desoldering tip.

the PACE SMT tips I had at TEK were iron-clad,except for the really
expensive IC removal tips. Not usually a problem except on the tiny
tips.they would quickly lose their "wettability" and be terrible for
soldering fine pitch leads.At least with the plain copper Antex tips,I
could refile and retin them until they were too short.

I'd forgotten about tip problems. I just don't seem to have them with
the Metcals. I think I've only worn out one. The only other tips I've
replaced in 12 years are fine point ones that some gorilla "borrowed" &
bent. I also like the ability to "hot swap" a tip to a differeent shape
in about 5 seconds. My recollection is that the Antex tips could do
that, but some of the others (Weller & Pace) require unscrewing things,
which gets more exciting when they are hot.

Doug White

 

[Jim Yanik]

Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9D20705D9338Agwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.7:

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9D1FF0535ED04jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44:

Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9D1FDC61689D6gwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.50:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:eebhn552053e437mtfgu4rivife2l7p0ho@4ax.com:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:56:39 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu
wrote:

I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really good
setup. That probably sounds absurd to a lot of folks, but if you've
ever struggled soldering something, & then tried a Metcal, it's
worth a bit of investment.

Soldering is usually not a problem. It's unsoldering that drives
me to spend the money. If your price ceiling is about $200, you're
below the level of Hakko or Weller hot air desoldering stations,
which can cost $500 to $1000 and up with accessories. For cheap, I
suggest: <http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/7543

This is what you get for about $200:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9766.jpg
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766

However, I can't claim much experience with one of these. I've
played with an older model, liked it, but have not torn it apart to
see if it's junk or quality. The availablity of nozzles,
replacement parts, and repair items is reassuring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm figuring on picking up a used system on eBay, so list price
isn't the issue. As for desoldering, I've had pretty good luck with
the Metcal, liquid flux and solderwick. As I said, I mostly work on
RF stuff, and I typically don't have a zillion leads to deal with
the way the digital types do. Besides, once I have something
unsoldered, I still need to get a replacement soldered down. I
figured once I got a decent iron, I'd look into a hot air pencil. A
lot will depend on how circuit work I end up doing. I will be
assembling more than repairing (I hope).

Doug White


you shouldn't use solderwick(or solderpullts) on SMT boards,you'll
lift the pads.
too much dwell time,applies too much heat to the tiny pads.

You certainly have to be careful. Solderpullets are a menace because
of the recoil.

I've never had any recoil problems. I have two of the deluxe models.

The biggest problem I've had is with specialize RF
material. The copper adhesion is usually much worse than FR-4, and it
toasts easily. I probably won't be working with that stuff much at
home.

Doug White

the main problem shared by both wick and soldapullts is that you have to
keep the IRON on the pad too long.(dwell time)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Jim Yanik]

Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9D2071C907019gwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.50:

Pace must have improved their stuff. We bought a full setup in the
mid- 80's, and it was a pain in the neck to use. It collected dust
within 6 months.

Doug White

Yes,Pace has improved their product.
The Pace gear I used back in the late 90's at TEK was reasonably easy to
use.One big improvement was making the desoldering tips much longer,so they
would not have solder buildup in the heating element itself,at the
reservoir end of the tip. No need to use a foot pedal,either.
I had two different Pace setups,one older,one newer.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com