Beogram 4000 TT schematic.

[Mr.T]

"Gordon" <gor2005@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:d5t7dt$7i6$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...

Ask anyone who has tried to get something repaired in recent times and you
can sit back and let the horror stories roll and that includes so called
authorised repairers.
I for one would rather take my out of warranty equipment to someone
genuine
as Patric appears to be than to one of those 'authorised' places.

I quite agree with you, but only if the said repairer has some idea what he
is doing. In this case Patrick has taken on a repair where he has no
knowledge of the product, and apparently has no circuit. His attempts to fix
it may be well meaning, but he is just as likely to damage something.
(for example, cartridges are very expensive, and can be damaged easily if
the arm lift solenoid doesn't operate properly.)

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:t4u481dl0joooqr7g839tgbu5f7b3bblal@4ax.com...

If the unit is indeed 33 years old, I wonder how many of the service
techs working in the industry today would be familiar with it, or with
turntables of any kind. I suspect most of the experienced techs would
either be retired, or running their own businesses.

Agreed, except that reputable companies keep records.
Even new staff can access service manuals and lists of known problems, or
special service precautions.

Furthermore, I
would expect that the only advantage in taking the TT to an authorised
service centre would be that they would have unfettered access to
schematics and spares, if they still exist.

Agreed, both of which Patrick is lacking.

MrT.

 

[Patrick Turner]

I don't need to waste any time replying in detail to
Mr T's blatherations, which mainly set out to discredit me.

He missed the part where I said I thought I would be compelled to get a
workshop manual
and schematic after spending more time yesterday on the POS B&O.

However, after an hour today I discovered more about what was wrong, and
about what
would never have appeared in the manual, since it involved
a very slightly broken plastic part.
Then there were some more obvious simple adjustments.

Once I fabricated a metal reinforcing bracket to beef up the plastic part
and adjust a position of a solenoid, and an adjust screw to minimise the
lateral play
of the arm cariage, the chattering stop/start action of the carriage ceased
and the item now runs flawlessly, nothing gets hot, and I was able to play
several records ok.
I think B&O have an inherent design problem with the 4000.
The solenoid controlling the arm lift/set down motion pushes against a lever
which
stays against the threaded rod which is rotated to draw the carriage across
the record.
Clearly whoever designed it this way made a blue for not allowing enough
space
to prevent the solenoid shaft and lever striking the threaded rod and
bouncing a bit,
enough to make the solenoid act like a buzzer if the adjustments of solenoid
position
and threaded rod position are at extremes of their travel.
Basically,things are too crammed in, and I wouldn't have been the first
to find this problem. Anyway, the item is fixed now.

I might add I don't have a schematic and manual to use when playing chess
in my local group of players; sometimes you just gotta come up
with a solution without any aid.

The B&O cart has rather dull HF imho.
The Denon 103 MC in a Thorens TD160 is far better.

( Never did I say I had a Decca.)

Patrick Turner.



"Mr.T" wrote:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:t4u481dl0joooqr7g839tgbu5f7b3bblal@4ax.com...
If the unit is indeed 33 years old, I wonder how many of the service
techs working in the industry today would be familiar with it, or with
turntables of any kind. I suspect most of the experienced techs would
either be retired, or running their own businesses.

Agreed, except that reputable companies keep records.
Even new staff can access service manuals and lists of known problems, or
special service precautions.

Furthermore, I
would expect that the only advantage in taking the TT to an authorised
service centre would be that they would have unfettered access to
schematics and spares, if they still exist.

Agreed, both of which Patrick is lacking.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4284609A.28892B4F@turneraudio.com.au...

<Snip Patrick admitting it's not so complicated after all, a person with no
experience can even fix one without a service manual.

The B&O cart has rather dull HF imho.

If it's 30 years old I'm *NOT SURPRISED* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the MMC20CL I used was not the original, but did have an almost flat
response to 40 kHz, and came with an individually tested B&K plot to prove
it.
Any dullness when new would be due to poor load matching, the records
played, or Patrick's hearing.
(No longer made though unfortunately, so Patrick will never know)
Also I would bet money that it did less damage to a record than any moving
coil cartridge!
(Always my number one priority with vinyl, my Thorens has a Shure V15VMR)

MrT.

 

[Patrick Turner]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4284609A.28892B4F@turneraudio.com.au...

Snip Patrick admitting it's not so complicated after all, a person with no
experience can even fix one without a service manual.

The B&O cart has rather dull HF imho.

If it's 30 years old I'm *NOT SURPRISED* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many things from 30 years ago had excellent bw.

And the MMC20CL I used was not the original, but did have an almost flat
response to 40 kHz, and came with an individually tested B&K plot to prove
it.

The unit I have had a normal B&O cart, and the whole unit
was suitable to give quadrophonic sound.

Any dullness when new would be due to poor load matching, the records
played, or Patrick's hearing.
(No longer made though unfortunately, so Patrick will never know)
Also I would bet money that it did less damage to a record than any moving
coil cartridge!
(Always my number one priority with vinyl, my Thorens has a Shure V15VMR)

I used to have V15.
Denon MC was much better.

I am still seeking a scematic for the 4,000 TT,
to check my work, even though it now appears to work perfectly.

The client wanted me to fix it before taking it to Melbourne
when he leaves town, so there wasn't much time to
order a manual from OS and wait a month for it to arrive.

There is a B&O discussion group to which I have
subscribed, and gues what, another guy has the same trouble
with vibrating/chattering arm when stopping/starting.

Don't worry Mr T, I normally perform blameless
repair work on all items.

I must say your posts have not been of any real help.

Patrick Turner.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42863263.E0C2E28B@turneraudio.com.au...

The B&O cart has rather dull HF imho.
If it's 30 years old I'm *NOT SURPRISED* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many things from 30 years ago had excellent bw.

Sure did 30 years ago. Cartridge suspensions don't seem to last that long
though, unfortunately.

The unit I have had a normal B&O cart, and the whole unit
was suitable to give quadrophonic sound.

Any cartridge can manage SQ or QS. The standard cartridge was NOT CD4 rated
though, the MMC6000 was optional as was the decoder board.

I used to have V15.
Denon MC was much better.

In your opinion obviously. Not all V15's are the same BTW! They are all
kinder to vinyl records though.
The idea of a record sounding slightly better, but once only, didn't appeal
to me that much.
Fortunately vinyl problems are irrelevant since the invention of CD.

MrT.

 

[Gordon]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:42841556$0$10302$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Gordon" <gor2005@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:d5t7dt$7i6$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
Ask anyone who has tried to get something repaired in recent times and
you
can sit back and let the horror stories roll and that includes so called
authorised repairers.
I for one would rather take my out of warranty equipment to someone
genuine
as Patric appears to be than to one of those 'authorised' places.

I quite agree with you, but only if the said repairer has some idea what
he
is doing. In this case Patrick has taken on a repair where he has no
knowledge of the product, and apparently has no circuit. His attempts to
fix
it may be well meaning, but he is just as likely to damage something.
(for example, cartridges are very expensive, and can be damaged easily if
the arm lift solenoid doesn't operate properly.)

MrT.

Yes I know what you are getting at however it was my experience ,over the

20yrs or so I was in the hi-fi industry, that people like Patric with all
their general experience and a respect for other peoples equipment tend to
take more care with other peoples property than the big repair
organisations.
Gordon

 

[Mr.T]

"Gordon" <gor2005@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:d676u5$occ$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...

Yes I know what you are getting at however it was my experience ,over the
20yrs or so I was in the hi-fi industry, that people like Patric with all
their general experience and a respect for other peoples equipment tend
to
take more care with other peoples property than the big repair
organisations.

It's my experience that no generalisations can be drawn about repairers big
or small, cheap or expensive.
Most will try to cover up their mistakes IME, in any industry. Many will
even charge you for parts they have damaged by their incompetence.
Unless you know someone is indeed both capable and ethical, it's pretty much
pot luck.

From his posts, Patrick seems likely to be better than most as far as ethics
go.

MrT.

 

[Gordon]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:4287284e$0$10304$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Gordon" <gor2005@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:d676u5$occ$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
Yes I know what you are getting at however it was my experience ,over the
20yrs or so I was in the hi-fi industry, that people like Patric with all
their general experience and a respect for other peoples equipment tend
to
take more care with other peoples property than the big repair
organisations.

It's my experience that no generalisations can be drawn about repairers
big
or small, cheap or expensive.
Most will try to cover up their mistakes IME, in any industry. Many will
even charge you for parts they have damaged by their incompetence.
Unless you know someone is indeed both capable and ethical, it's pretty
much
pot luck.

From his posts, Patrick seems likely to be better than most as far as
ethics
go.

MrT.

Ye ,sounds fair enough to me but what is your experience in this area?

Gordon