Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery li

F

felix_unger

Guest
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
"When tolerance becomes a one-way street it leads to cultural suicide" -Col. Allen West
http://thereligionofpeace.com
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/
http://pamelageller.com/
coming to a street near you!.. http://ausnet.info/islam/lakemba.html
Brigitte Gabriel's answer to 'peaceful' moslems.. http://tinyurl.com/brigitteGab
"No need for concern. Only 5-10% of muslims are extremists. In 1940 only 7% of Germans were Nazis. How did that turn out?"
"ISIS's actions represent no faith, least of all the Muslim faith"
-Barack Obama, idiotic President of the USA https://
www.youtube.com/watch?t=56&v=QxzOVSMUrGM
 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html



I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA

states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery. Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I don't
know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Don’t see why it would be detrimental unless it causes the battery
to leak.
 
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html

I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

<https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA>

states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
about 1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of
the patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops to
1V will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further, if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator
to provide a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to
provide a constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as
the regulator dissipates more energy as heat.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I
don't know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Sylvia.
 
On 2/06/2015 3:52 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html




I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA


states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops
to about 1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of
the patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further, if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear
regulator to provide a constant internal voltage, then adding the
Batteriser to provide a constant 1.5V input will just run the battery
down faster as the regulator dissipates more energy as heat.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I
don't know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Don’t see why it would be detrimental unless it causes the battery
to leak.

For the reason I gave, and because, as even the inventor concedes, it's
not 100% efficient.

Sylvia.
 
On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 13:47:08 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html

I put non rechargable batteries in battery chargers and I get more life out
of them.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct56tuFl9kjU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 3:52 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html




I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA


states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops
to about 1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of
the patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further, if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear
regulator to provide a constant internal voltage, then adding the
Batteriser to provide a constant 1.5V input will just run the battery
down faster as the regulator dissipates more energy as heat.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I
don't know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Don’t see why it would be detrimental unless it causes the battery
to leak.

For the reason I gave,

That isn't detrimental.

> and because, as even the inventor concedes, it's not 100% efficient.

Doesn’t need to be when it sees the device use
the battery for longer than it would without it.
 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html



I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA

states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery. Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific equipment.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I don't
know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Can you give an example of a case that it can be detrimental?
 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct56tuFl9kjU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 3:52 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html




I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA


states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops
to about 1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of
the patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further, if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear
regulator to provide a constant internal voltage, then adding the
Batteriser to provide a constant 1.5V input will just run the battery
down faster as the regulator dissipates more energy as heat.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I
don't know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Don't see why it would be detrimental unless it causes the battery
to leak.

For the reason I gave, and because, as even the inventor concedes, it's
not 100% efficient.

Depends what you meant by "100% efficient". The product claims to increase
the life(or usage) of the battey a factor of eight for the consumer
electronic and other devices that demand the 1.5V or near there.
 
On 3/06/2015 9:41 AM, felix_unger wrote:
On 02-June-2015 7:12 PM, SolomonW wrote:
On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 13:47:08 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html

I put non rechargable batteries in battery chargers and I get more
life out
of them.

that can cause them to overheat and catch fire, or so it's said

Be careful with button cells, I learned that they can indeed explode.
 
"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message
news:1bxbfomak61yh.1p2pncno39u03$.dlg@40tude.net...
On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 13:47:08 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html

I put non rechargable batteries in battery chargers and I get more life
out
of them.

bad idea. a minor chemical explosion and the desctruction of the charger may
happen.
 
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html



I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA

states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery. Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V per
cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the voltage
back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the pump
circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, but also wastes energy in
the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I don't
know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Can you give an example of a case that it can be detrimental?

See above.

Sylvia.
 
On 3/06/2015 11:40 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct56tuFl9kjU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 3:52 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html




I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA


states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops
to about 1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of
the patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further, if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear
regulator to provide a constant internal voltage, then adding the
Batteriser to provide a constant 1.5V input will just run the battery
down faster as the regulator dissipates more energy as heat.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I
don't know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Don't see why it would be detrimental unless it causes the battery
to leak.

For the reason I gave, and because, as even the inventor concedes, it's
not 100% efficient.

Depends what you meant by "100% efficient". The product claims to increase
the life(or usage) of the battey a factor of eight for the consumer
electronic and other devices that demand the 1.5V or near there.
I'm using the conventional meaning of efficiency in the context of dc-dc
converters - which is the ratio of output power to input power.

I question how many devices will actually cease to operate at 1.4V or
1.35V per cell.

Sylvia.
 
On 02-June-2015 7:12 PM, SolomonW wrote:
On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 13:47:08 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html
I put non rechargable batteries in battery chargers and I get more life out
of them.

that can cause them to overheat and catch fire, or so it's said

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
"When tolerance becomes a one-way street it leads to cultural suicide" -Col. Allen West
http://thereligionofpeace.com
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/
http://pamelageller.com/
coming to a street near you!.. http://ausnet.info/islam/lakemba.html
Brigitte Gabriel's answer to 'peaceful' moslems.. http://tinyurl.com/brigitteGab
"No need for concern. Only 5-10% of muslims are extremists. In 1940 only 7% of Germans were Nazis. How did that turn out?"
"ISIS's actions represent no faith, least of all the Muslim faith"
-Barack Obama, idiotic President of the USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=56&v=QxzOVSMUrGM
 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html



I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA

states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7 of
the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops to
1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up
voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V per
cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the voltage
back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the pump
circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,

Yes.

but also wastes energy in
> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all they need.

It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.

So my take on this is that it can probably work, but that it will not
deliver anything like the benefits claimed, and in some (how many, I
don't
know) cases, it will actually be detrimental.

Can you give an example of a case that it can be detrimental?

See above.

Which mangles the story.
 
On 2/6/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html
I would take the 800% claim with large pinch of salt. You might get
some extended life, particularly on devices which shut down at 1.3-1.4
volts.

Then there are still problems with fitting, particularly in cameras (
not that many of the current ones use AA cells ). Many cameras I have
had, the battery is already a very close fit in the holders, another 0.1
mm would be a jam fit.

Interesting that a company called Kentl make rechargeable Lithium
batteries with a similar idea built in. Gives a constant 1.5 volt
output from the nominal 3.6 volt cell, so its a drop-in replacement for
alkaline cells, without going down to the 1.2 volts of NiMH, which can
be a problem in many devices. To me that sounds like a better option.

One thing I did find though, is they dont like high ( something over 0.5
amp ) drain current. Probably the same applies to the Batteriser.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.
 
On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html




I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA


states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up
voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the
pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,

Yes.

but also wastes energy in
the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all they
need.

It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.

Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any
higher voltage wastes energy, unless the device contrives to draw a
lower current at the higher voltage (which typically implies some kind
of non-linear regulator).

Sylvia.
 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html




I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA


states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up
voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the
pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,

Yes.

but also wastes energy in
the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all they
need.

It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.

Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any higher
voltage wastes energy,

No it does not.

> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher voltage

Nope, think of a constant current device.

> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator).

No reason why it can't just connect the battery
directly to the load while ever the voltage is high
enough and put it thru a step up regulator when
the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains
in the battery out of the battery.
 
On 4/06/2015 4:14 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html





I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA



states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do. Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up
voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the
pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,

Yes.

but also wastes energy in
the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all they
need.

It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.

Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any
higher voltage wastes energy, unless the device contrives to draw a
lower current at the higher voltage (which typically implies some kind
of non-linear regulator).

Sylvia.

Boost converters are LEAST efficient at lower input voltages. As the
voltage increases they get more efficient. Basic switch-mode stuff.
 
On 4/06/2015 1:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html





I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA



states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do.
Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up
voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the
pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,

Yes.

but also wastes energy in
the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all they
need.

It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.

Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any
higher voltage wastes energy,

No it does not.

unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher voltage

Nope, think of a constant current device.

(which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator).

No reason why it can't just connect the battery
directly to the load while ever the voltage is high
enough and put it thru a step up regulator when
the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains
in the battery out of the battery.

Boost converters automatically do that. In fact a boost-only converter
cannot output a lower voltage than it's input. SEPIC converters are
different, of course.


 
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net...
On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net...
On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html






I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of
salt, at
least
understood for exactly what they are.

The patent

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA




states

"Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such
as AA
batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
drops
by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops
to
about
1.4V or 1.35V."

Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
of the
patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do.
Not
that the majority do, nor that most do.

By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage
drops
to 1V
will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
Further,
if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
provide
a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to
provide a
constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
regulator
dissipates more energy as heat.

That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step
up
voltage
regulator circuittry.
Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
equipment.

It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a
matter of
what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in
the
pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,

Yes.

but also wastes energy in
the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.

Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all
they
need.

It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.

Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any
higher voltage wastes energy,

No it does not.

unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher
voltage

Nope, think of a constant current device.

A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the applied
voltage.

But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device.

You raised constant current devices.

Only to rub your nose in that error of yours.

(which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator).

No reason why it can't just connect the battery
directly to the load while ever the voltage is high
enough and put it thru a step up regulator when
the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains
in the battery out of the battery.

Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself
wasting energy?

One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that
applys the battery directly to what its powering
while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and
then switches the step up regulator in when the
battery voltage drops below the voltage at which
the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage.

And the relay coil is powered how?

Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay
or use the normally closed terminals when the relay
is not powered to connect the battery directly to the
load when the battery voltage is high enough.

In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily high
voltage to a device is wasteful of energy.

But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery
can be directly connected to the load when it
is producing sufficient voltage to power the load.

The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient.

It can work that out from when the load no longer
runs when the battery voltage is low enough. In
other words it can wait for the load to drop out
as the battery voltage drops, and then energise
the relay so the boost regulator is in the circuit
and then remember that voltage and come in
when the voltage has not dropped quite so far
with the next battery. In other words it can learn
the dropout voltage for itself.

The proposed implementation just maintains a voltage similar to the
voltage on a fresh cell,

Not necessarily, it can just maintain a voltage just a bit
higher than the voltage at which the load drops out.

and is wasting energy thereby to the extent that voltage is higher than
necessary.

Not when its not.
 

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