Audio cassette alignment revisited

OK, it is working now.

Once you record a square wave successfully, and it comes back square, play it in different decks to make sure they put out a mostly square wave. Do all of this with the Dolby turned off, or with HX only. If oyu have a deck withHX and theothers without, use the HX one to record always, even oi the head is more worn it will make a better recording. Of course I recommend dubbing everything that is non-replaceable, but that is your perogative.

The first thing I would recommend is to post the model numbers of all these things. We might be able to get the service manuals online from like HIFIengine or HIFImanuals. These will allow us to identify the parts that will age, like electrolytics and tantalum caps. the small poly ones and all that will either uisually be shorted, open or something, and it will be noticable and most likely in one channel.

Assuming tape head wear is not really bad, the channels should be equal. when the heads start losing it, usually the left goes first being the edge track. Hopefull your decks have (working) pad pushers and use regulated tape tension to maintain head to tape contact.

I would record the square waves and see which ones record the best and which ones play back the best. Are any of these things three head ? Evne in the high end units, not all are. And hopefully they are not autoreverse.

There are mainly only so many alignments to do and not all exist on all machines. You have playback EQ, this may be separate for 70 and 120 uS, depends. that's something we want to know. When it comes to record there may be another for metal tape if equipped.

Then comes Dolby calibration. Dolby calibrated at the factory is almost never right because they use the absolutely best type of tape for their unit of course, to get the best specs. If you plan on dubbing the material out to another format like CD or FLAC on the computer, you might want to calibrate the Dolby for the source tape used. The only other good way to ake the noise reduction work right is to have an outboard Dolby decoder, though if the deck has output level controls that PRECEDE the Dolby decoder, you're in luck and don''t have to go through all that.

This is why we need the prints for these things. There are different ways to proceed, depending on not only which adjustments are provided, but also the exact architechture of the machine.

We coid just wing it, but you indicated you want to be sure and not guess. To do that we need to establish a reference and to do that we need to know what COULD be wrong electronically.

As such I highly recommend we get the prints, in fact if you have them you could scan them and upload them to one of those cloud things like dropbox por photobucket. In fact if they are clear scans they might be better than what is available out there. I have seen some terrible ones.

When you get into recording though, tha tis a whole new ballgame. Underbias will cause a loss of a certain range of frequncies, probably around 2Khz to 5Khz or so. Overbias will lose the real high end, even worse. both conditions cause odd order distortion. Too much bias will cause compression of the peaks wheras too little bias will cause expansion of the peaks.. Either is a nonlinearity and results in high harmonic distortion. This can only be removed with big buck digital sound equipment which I doubt any of us has.

Really, give me the model numbers. We can go from there after you run some square wave tests. If these decks have continuously variable bias, you might just be able to make a good enough test tape. The square wave will tell you the general response quite accurately, and don't be disappointed if it shows what looks like ringing. that is characteristic of the system.

what causes that is that the response is not flat, and I mean not like anythning else that is unflat. It is not simply a rolloff usually. When they say +-3dB, it could mean +2Db at 2,100Hz, -2.5Db at 3,000Hz, 0Db at 5,000Hzz, +2,8Db at 8,000Hz, -2Db at 9,300Hz, and so forth. They ALL do that. (of course that's not really worse than most speakers)

If they don't you have some DAMN GOOD decks there.

The square wave tels all, except distortion. For that we will have to find a way to mix two frequencies, just like they to run an intermodulation distortion test. When it comes to tape recording, the cause for both THD and IM distortion are the same so the results are the same.

The reason a square wave test should work at least halfway decently is that it is extermely unlikely that faults could be in both the record and play and null out and resut in a good recording. the odds are astronomical against. So that is one of the facts we use to try to determine some sort of reference.

We can do this, remember those signs that say :

:We the unwilling,
Led by the unknowing,
Have been doing so much,
With so little,
For so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing" ?

That's me. I can align the record section of a VCR without freq. counters or any of that stuff. I'll reveal how on request, I remember a bunch of those early Funais came in with the controls all whacked out by the customer. I was the one to get them done without ordering a shit ton of equipment.

This is no different. In the meantime if we ruin into any real difficulty I think I might be able to pump some info or maybe even something resembling a test tape on one of the purely audio forums.

I knda like doing shit like this, ust because you "can't" haha.
 
On 03/19/2014 01:05 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
On 03/19/2014 06:29 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

By "a standard tape", I meant a reference calibration tape, such as one
from MRL.

What standard? We frequently exceeded 250 nW/m or whatever.
For a while MRL had no alignment tape for higher saturation
operation.

I'm talking about playback frequency response, which as what the OP was
actually interested in.

It doesn't matter what the reference fluxivity is. You can set playback
/level/ wherever you want it.

What reference fluxivity should I use?

The "reference fluxivity" section of a Calibration Tape is normally used
to set the reproducer gain on a tape recorder with a vu meter so that
the output level reads 0 dB. The reference fluxivity you should use
depends on:
your program level meter (whether a standard vu meter, a standard peak
program meter, or something non-standard);
the kind of blank tape you'll be using;
whether you'll be using a noise reduction system (e.g., Dolby, dBX); and
whether you desire "tape compression."

For some specific recommendations, see the literature from the
manufacturer of the tape you'll be using, and also see MRL's Choosing
and Using MRL Calibration Tapes...., Sec. 1.2.6 and Table 2 (pages 4
and 5).

Common usages are 200 nanowebers per meter [nWb/m] for older and
consumer-type tapes; 250 nWb/m for general studio usage; and 500 nWb/m
with the highest output mastering tapes when "tape compression" is desired.
If you have a Calibration Tape that is not at the reference fluxivity
that you want, but is otherwise correct, you can easily use it to set
your reproducer for a different reference fluxivity by the method shown
in Choosing and Using..., Sec. 2.3.1 "Shifting the Reference Fluxivity".

Which test signals should I use?

Multifrequency Calibration Tapes

These tapes are the "old traditional alignment tapes" sold by Ampex and
others since 1948. They have 18 or 20 shorter tones -- 1 kHz level set,
8- and 16-kHz azimuth set and preliminary frequency response, and 13
frequencies from 32 Hz to 20 kHz. for frequency response. The 13
frequency response tones measure the response over the entire audio
spectrum, and are necessary for diagnosis and repair of reproducers with
poor frequency response. They are also needed to set up a reproducer
when the equalization is not already known to be adjusted close to
optimum. An example would be calibrating a newly-purchased machine for
the first time. Though more expensive, multifrequency tapes are the most
generally useful.
Once a reproducer is set up with a Multifrequency Calibration Tape,
routine checks at 1 kHz and 10 kHz are usually adequate, and those tapes
are shorter, and therefore both less expensive to purchase, and quicker
to use.
 
On 03/19/2014 01:05 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
On 03/19/2014 06:29 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

By "a standard tape", I meant a reference calibration tape, such as one
from MRL.

What standard? We frequently exceeded 250 nW/m or whatever.
For a while MRL had no alignment tape for higher saturation
operation.

I'm talking about playback frequency response, which as what the OP was
actually interested in.

It doesn't matter what the reference fluxivity is. You can set playback
/level/ wherever you want it.

The OP was talking about a standard calibration tape for Philips Cassette.

Step 2: What kind of tape are you recording on? There's three common
"operating levels" (see below for definitions) of recording tape our MRL
tapes will cover: +3 dB, +6 dB, and +9 dB. Ampex/Q 406, 407, 408, 480,
and 478 are +3dB and use 250 nWb/m calibration tapes. RMGI Emtec SM911,
LPR35, & Ampex/Q 456 and 457 are +6 dB and use 355 nWb/m calibration
tapes. Also, the very high output tapes like RMGI Emtec SM900, Ampex/Q
GP9 are +9 dB tapes and can also use the 355 nWb/m tapes by setting the
operating level on playback to a -3 VU on the meters. Why not have a +9
or a 520 nWb/m calibration tape? Most users of tape use either RMGI
Emtec SM911, RMGI Emtec SM900, AMPEX/Q 456 or AMPEX/Q GP9 (and soon the
ATR Magnetics tapes). The 350 nWb/m tapes will cover both with a -3VU
output adjustment for the +9 tapes.
Step 3: How many adjustments to your deck are you going to do?
Usually, the main adjustments are the "operating level" and the azimuth
adjustment to the heads. The next in line adjustment would be the low
frequency equalization. Beyond that, MRL offers calibration tapes that
offer complete octaves of frequencies over the whole spectrum of hearing.

Operating Levels: (See also "What Tape Should I Use?" in our archives
section
Open reel recorders record at different "operating" levels depending on
the deck's design and the tape you are recording on. The "maximum"
operating level means this is the setting that will read "0 VU" on your
meters with respect to .776 V or NAB 0 VU. AMPEX/Q 407 is a +3 dB tape
for instance which means that when your deck is calibrated for a +3 dB
tape that "0" on your VU meters is actually +3 dB with reference to the
NAB "0".

What do you gain with elevated levels? By being able to record "louder"
or "hotter" on the tape the residual noise level on the tape drops with
respect to where your recording levels are set. To explain this, think
of it this way. If your recordings are recorded hotter you will have to
turn down your sound system's volume control compared to a recording not
recorded at a hotter level. By turning down the volume control you will
get the same music sound volume but the noise floor is reduced.

The noise floor becomes very critical in multi track situations where
all the tracks of music and residual tape hiss are mixed together. In
this situation, the noise floor becomes much more of a critical issue
than simply copying a two track master tape, for instance.

Most consumer decks are set to a specific operating level. There were no
+9 dB tapes around at the time, and these decks mostly can not take
advantage of the increased recording volume. But you can gain even more
headroom with these tapes. RMGI Emtec SM900 saturates at roughly +18.5
dB over a +9 dB operating level. If your deck is set to a +3 dB
operating level like many consumer decks are, you'll gain an additional
6dB headroom by not recording as hot.

Just because a tape has a +9 dB or +6 dB operating level doesn't mean
you have to record at that level. It's a recommended setting, not a
must. When buying a calibration tape, buy one according to your deck's
settings. You might be able to boost your settings by +3 dB but +6 dB
would be a stretch unless you have a studio quality recorder.
 
"dave" wrote in message
news:HN2dnT1CX-YGsrHOnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> What reference fluxivity should I use?

I believe it's 200nW/m for cassette, 250nW/m for open-reel. I once aligned a
ReVox consumer deck for Scotch ultra-high-output tape, and set it at least 6dB
higher. Otherwise, the meter would have banging at peak output.

The level for cassette is not really negotiable, because it's supposed to
represent Dolby level.
 
The OP wanted to know the tape's /playback/ response. Recording test tones
isn't going to tell you how flat the /playback/ response is. For that, you
need a high-quality reference tape.

One of the problems with cassette reference tapes (as opposed to open-reel) is
that the wavelengths are so short, the tape's HF output will slowly decline,
as the tape self-erases. If you want an accurate measurement, you're going to
need a recently manufactured tape from a reliable supplier (such as MRL).
These are not cheap.

If you have a Nakamichi, there's another problem. Nakamichi's playback heads
supposedly had lower losses and correspondingly greater HF output. Rather than
adjusting the standard playback curve to compensate, Nakamichi took advantage
of the higher output and used less recording pre-emphasis, to increase HF
headroom.

The OP is worrying about something that isn't of great importance. If the
heads are in good condition, then the response should be pretty much what is
was when the deck was manufactured. And you're not going to have much
component-value drift in a solid-state recorder.
 
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message news:lghdkf$anr$1@dont-email.me...

The level for cassette is not really negotiable, because
it's supposed to represent Dolby level.

Whoops! True, but... There were cassette decks in which Dolby level -- on the
meter -- was 2 or 3dB above 0VU.
 
On 03/21/2014 07:06 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message news:lghdkf$anr$1@dont-email.me...

The level for cassette is not really negotiable, because
it's supposed to represent Dolby level.

Whoops! True, but... There were cassette decks in which Dolby level --
on the meter -- was 2 or 3dB above 0VU.

dolby Type B or C. Standard or metal oxide. Metal was more Nanowebers
 
On 03/21/2014 07:33 AM, dave wrote:
On 03/21/2014 07:06 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
news:lghdkf$anr$1@dont-email.me...

The level for cassette is not really negotiable, because
it's supposed to represent Dolby level.

Whoops! True, but... There were cassette decks in which Dolby level --
on the meter -- was 2 or 3dB above 0VU.



dolby Type B or C. Standard or metal oxide. Metal was more Nanowebers

HX was when I started using VHS HiFi for archives.
 
Dolby HX decreases the bias dynamically during times with alot of (mainly) high frequency content. This helped avoid tape saturation and allowed recording at significantly higher levels, or at normal levels with significantly less distortion.

the first units I noticed it on were Harmon Kardons I think which actually had a switch to disable it, and you could record at +6Db or so and see a big difference oin the playback level, though of course you had to switch the switch while recording. the results were VERY noticable and later HX equipped units omitted the switch because nobody would wnat to turn it off.
 
"dave" wrote in message
news:bridnaJhE-gG0LHOnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> Dolby Type B or C. Standard or metal oxide. Metal was more Nanowebers

The reference level remains the same, regardless.
 
"dave" wrote in message
news:bridnd1hE-iv07HOnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> HX was when I started using VHS HiFi for archives.

HX was not a noise-reduction system (though it was controlled by the Dolby B
level-sense circuitry).
 
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:08:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"dave" wrote in message
news:HN2dnT1CX-YGsrHOnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

What reference fluxivity should I use?

I believe it's 200nW/m for cassette, 250nW/m for open-reel. I once aligned a
ReVox consumer deck for Scotch ultra-high-output tape, and set it at least 6dB
higher. Otherwise, the meter would have banging at peak output.

The level for cassette is not really negotiable, because it's supposed to
represent Dolby level.

I has been fun reading this thread. My personal issue is where to get an
open reel (1/4 inch wide tape, 7-inch max reel size) setup and calibration
tape for my old Ampex AX-300 semi-pro tape deck.

?-)
 
>" has been fun reading this thread. My personal issue is where to get an
open reel (1/4 inch wide tape, 7-inch max reel size) setup and calibration
tape for my old Ampex AX-300 semi-pro tape deck. "

They have them all over the place on the planet Meezar 5. Twelve bucks.

T
 
OK, now who ever used Dolby A ?

That's right, since there is a B is implies there was an A. There was, it was used on a porfessional level. It was also level sensitive of course.
 
On 03/21/2014 07:56 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"dave" wrote in message
news:bridnaJhE-gG0LHOnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Dolby Type B or C. Standard or metal oxide. Metal was more Nanowebers

The reference level remains the same, regardless.

B has a reference level, Does C? Or is C more like DBX? I know there was
a switch for Metal Oxide.
 
On 03/21/2014 07:57 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"dave" wrote in message
news:bridnd1hE-iv07HOnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@earthlink.com...

HX was when I started using VHS HiFi for archives.

HX was not a noise-reduction system (though it was controlled by the
Dolby B level-sense circuitry).

Variable bias. It's all coming back to me. Useless knowledge from
another dimension..
 
On 03/21/2014 10:10 PM, josephkk wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:08:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"dave" wrote in message
news:HN2dnT1CX-YGsrHOnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

What reference fluxivity should I use?

I believe it's 200nW/m for cassette, 250nW/m for open-reel. I once aligned a
ReVox consumer deck for Scotch ultra-high-output tape, and set it at least 6dB
higher. Otherwise, the meter would have banging at peak output.

The level for cassette is not really negotiable, because it's supposed to
represent Dolby level.

I has been fun reading this thread. My personal issue is where to get an
open reel (1/4 inch wide tape, 7-inch max reel size) setup and calibration
tape for my old Ampex AX-300 semi-pro tape deck.

?-)

MRL seems to be offered by several vendors. They can cost in the
hundreds. Do you have all the fish scales required for mechanical
alignment? We used the 10 kHz tone on the beginning of NPR tapes for
azimuth reference. Are you using stock electronics on the 300?
 
"dave" wrote in message
news:AcednfR6gatoFbDOnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> B has a reference level. Does C? Or is C more like dbx?

All Dolby NR systems are level-sensitive. dbx is not.
 
jurb6006@gmail.com har bragt dette til os:
OK, now who ever used Dolby A ?

That's right, since there is a B is implies there was an A. There was, it was
used on a porfessional level. It was also level sensitive of course.

Not necessarily.

dBaseII was dominating the database market at one time.
There never were a dBaseI.
Also, the company was called Ashton-Tate, but while there were a Tate,
there never were an Ashton.

But anyway, Dolby A was/is? used professionally, eg. in recording
studios.

Leif

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
 

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