Are Non-Polarized Caps (in speaker crossovers) Electrolytics

[Phil Allison]

Phil Allison wrote:

------------------

pf...@aol.com wrote:

-
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_2016_09/57cf896d9937f_AR4xxo.jpg.3825ebd29785aceb6ff415ce4b6b4d7b.jpg

This is a crossover from an AR4x speaker, contemporary to the A25, and
also well respected. But from a manufacturer that did not do things
in the cheapest possible way. Note the inductor, and non-electrolytic cap.



** AR normally built their speakers in the CHEAPEST way possible.

That white cap in you pic is clearly non original ...

** The pic IS of a **REBUILT** AR4X crossover.


http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/profile/101828-jkent/content/&type=forums_topic_post&page=12

Wot a stinking fake.


...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

GS wrote:

------------------------

The Peter Wieck liar posted:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_2016_09/57cf896d9937f_AR4xxo.jpg.3825ebd29785aceb6ff415ce4b6b4d7b.jpg

This is a crossover from an AR4x speaker, contemporary to the A25, and
also well respected. But from a manufacturer that did not do things in
the cheapest possible way. Note the inductor, and non-electrolytic cap.


Some simple caps change crossover points with variable attenuator in
series. So you get level and phase change at the same. Not great idea.

** The pic quoted by "pf" is of a RE-BUILT AR4X crossover.

The Zen cap is not standard in any version nor is the L pad.

AR normally used a simple, WW pot, which is pretty darn slack.

IME, AR were seriously into cheapness.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

GS wrote:

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Sometimes you need really big values. I have measured many electrolytics
that are very close to marked value, at least ones in good shape.

** If the large value electro is wired in parallel with the woofer, it does little harm. Non linear distortion products do not transfer to the mid or treble drivers.

FYI:

My last project involved completely stripping and re-engineering an old pair of AR2Axs - the cabs were in good nick and cost me $100.

I fitted Peerless, 10 inch woofers ( 830668 ) with a 12dB/oct filters that used non-polar electros and a 2mH air inductor.

The mids were 4inch Peerless ( PL11MH09-08 ) with 12dB/oct filters at 450 Hz and 3kHz, using only 250VAC rated film caps and air inductors. I installed a thick walled, cardboard tube from back to front to give this driver its own, 2 litre enclosure - stuffed with absorbent wadding.

The tweeters were 4ohm PAE 1 inch soft domes ( PAE 25TG18) with an 18dB/oct filter using 250AV caps and air inductor.

I spent considerable time doing tests with an AKG CK2 condenser mic using 1/3oct pink noise and 4 cycle tone bursts.

There are a couple of 5 watt WW resistors involved, no variable attenuators and the final touch was to install Speakon connectors.

On good programme, they leave any AR I have listened to for dead.


..... Phil

 

[Ian Field]

<pfjw@aol.com> wrote in message
news:605c7eab-c468-46cc-88d9-44ddf8c43aa9@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:36:42 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

Depends what you paid for it - audiophools would go into shock at the
thought of NP electrolytics in speaker crossovers.

Anything decent will have some kind of metalised film caps - and you
don't
necessarily have to pay audiophool prices to get it.

Audiophools go into shock easily. Keep in mind how delicate a proposition
it must be to maintain their faith.

Many "decent" speakers have one/the-other/both inside. It is largely about
real-estate and price-point as well as how critical the value might be.
For critical and highly 'designed' applications, film caps are the only
way to fly. For things that are less critical, an electrolytic might do
just fine.

Allegedly; there's something about contact potentials with electrolytics.

If its real - there wouldn't be much mystery about it causing distortion.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 5:16:03 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

yes. OTOH they're inside a closed cabinet.

Just a basic, but relevant point - Dynaco cabinets of that vintage are not sealed.

And, yes, when speakers rely on mechanical vs. soldered connections, they become weak points. AR (et.al.) pots. Dynaco rotary switches. Internal banana connections (yes, they exist). And more.

As a hobbyist with a 40+ year immersion in the hobby, and in a region where all sorts of things are thick on the ground and having lived within 100 miles of a dozen major audio manufacturers, I have seen *lots* of strange stuff. Most recently (May 12th), a Dynaco ST70 and a pair of MkIIIs marked by, and from a Hammond organ. Go figure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 20:55:21 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 5:16:03 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote:

yes. OTOH they're inside a closed cabinet.


Just a basic, but relevant point - Dynaco cabinets of that vintage are not sealed.

And, yes, when speakers rely on mechanical vs. soldered connections, they become weak points. AR (et.al.) pots. Dynaco rotary switches. Internal banana connections (yes, they exist). And more.

As a hobbyist with a 40+ year immersion in the hobby, and in a region where all sorts of things are thick on the ground and having lived within 100 miles of a dozen major audio manufacturers, I have seen *lots* of strange stuff. Most recently (May 12th), a Dynaco ST70 and a pair of MkIIIs marked by, and from a Hammond organ. Go figure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hmm, I thought of crimps as pretty reliable.


NT

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <9468542c-342a-45eb-9641-8fc5a755bc5a@googlegroups.com>,
tabbypurr@gmail.com says...

On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 20:55:21 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 5:16:03 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote:

yes. OTOH they're inside a closed cabinet.


Just a basic, but relevant point - Dynaco cabinets of that vintage are not sealed.

And, yes, when speakers rely on mechanical vs. soldered connections, they become weak points. AR (et.al.) pots. Dynaco rotary switches. Internal banana connections (yes, they exist). And more.

As a hobbyist with a 40+ year immersion in the hobby, and in a region where all sorts of things are thick on the ground and having lived within 100 miles of a dozen major audio manufacturers, I have seen *lots* of strange stuff. Most recently (May 12th), a Dynaco ST70 and a pair of MkIIIs marked by, and from a Hammond organ. Go figure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hmm, I thought of crimps as pretty reliable.


NT

Crimps are very good when done correctly. I think what the OP is
referring to is speakers connected with things like the push on
connectors and phono plugs. Not realaly a good hard mashed together
type of connector,but one that slides off and on.