Approach to Finding the Root Cause of Failures

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

No one can dispute that. God was created to be unprovable either way. But the existence of an all-powerful, omniscient being does create contradictions, not to mention the inherent contradiction of man having free will in a universe with such a being. But you can believe in God without believing man has free will.

--

Ricky C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 11:36:42 AM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Your position that intelligent design is irrational takes the agnostic position off the table.

Not really, two different issues, believing in God and believing God created man.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[David Brown]

On 05/04/2020 20:05, Ricky C wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 11:36:42 AM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Your position that intelligent design is irrational takes the agnostic position off the table.

Not really, two different issues, believing in God and believing God created man.

It's fine to say "I believe in God, and that he created evolution" -
that strikes me as a lot more flattering to him than suggesting he
created the flawed human race.

There is also the possibility that there was a designer, but that
he/she/it was not intelligent.

There are so many obvious and simple mistakes and bad designs in biology
that there clearly was no "intelligent designer" - or that he/she/it was
having a laugh. I mean, what designer could have put together the
mammalian brain but routed the recurrent laryngeal nerve on the wrong
side of the aortic arch? /That/ is simply not credible.

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Another un-provable possibility is that the concept of "god" is just another inherent property of matter, like density, color, mass, length, temperature, etc...

I recall Scott Adams (creator of the Dilbert cartoons) once wrote a book along those lines.

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 5:00:38 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Another un-provable possibility is that the concept of "god" is just another inherent property of matter, like density, color, mass, length, temperature, etc...

I recall Scott Adams (creator of the Dilbert cartoons) once wrote a book along those lines.

As long as it can not be proven or disproven, then it can't possibly have any impact on my life, so it can't matter to me.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

On 05/04/2020 20:05, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 11:36:42 AM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Your position that intelligent design is irrational takes the agnostic position off the table.

Not really, two different issues, believing in God and believing God created man.


It's fine to say "I believe in God, and that he created evolution" -
that strikes me as a lot more flattering to him than suggesting he
created the flawed human race.

Did you give that any thought at all? If there is a all knowing God, would he have set up evolution without knowing the sort of human race that would result??? Or are you suggesting he created evolution as a sort of experiment just to see what might happen? Again, why would he not know???

There is also the possibility that there was a designer, but that
he/she/it was not intelligent.

Huh? You mean a universe designed by something equivalent to humans???

There are so many obvious and simple mistakes and bad designs in biology
that there clearly was no "intelligent designer" - or that he/she/it was
having a laugh. I mean, what designer could have put together the
mammalian brain but routed the recurrent laryngeal nerve on the wrong
side of the aortic arch? /That/ is simply not credible.

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Arrrgggg!

--

Ricky C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1009574a-dbd6-4af6-b547-5650790ff92a@googlegroups.com:

Bill Slowman wrote:


-----------------------O

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way
or the other.



** There was an agnostic dyslexic who believed there was no Dog.



.... Phil

Is that Dogmic Karma or Karmic Dogma?

These are the times that try mens' holes.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 6/4/20 12:48 am, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Non-theists say that the word "God" is so ill-defined that question of
existence cannot be meaningfully asked, let alone answered.

It's just like asking whether unicorns exist. The idea of a unicorn is
the intersection of two categories (horse-like creatures, creatures with
a single horn), both of which contain concrete instances - but the
intersection contains no concrete instance. Therefore the word "unicorn"
applies only to the empty category formed by the intersection, and is
not made real by any instance. There can be no actual answer to any
question about a non-actual thing. "God" is like that.

CH

 

[Phil Allison]

Bill Slowman wrote:


-----------------------O

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

** There was an agnostic dyslexic who believed there was no Dog.



..... Phil

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:36:42 AM UTC-7, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Your position that intelligent design is irrational takes the agnostic position off the table.

No, it does not. It merely says that rationality (doing things for a reason)
does not support belief in intelligent design. That's why believers refer
to faith, as an impulse beyond/outside reason.

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:07 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Bill Slowman wrote:


-----------------------O

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.



** There was an agnostic dyslexic who believed there was no Dog.

You got that wrong. The agnostic dyslexic stayed awake at night wondering if there really was a Dog. If he didn't believe he would be an atheist dyslexic and that doesn't have the 'g' in it which helps the humor.

Humorous letters are 'g', 'k', 'p' and lets not forget the sometimes funny 'x' and 'z'.

Gadzooks! A gherkin kerfuffle in Punxsutawney!

Even got the 'x' and 'z' in that one!

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 9:22:44 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 6/4/20 12:48 am, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Non-theists say that the word "God" is so ill-defined that question of
existence cannot be meaningfully asked, let alone answered.

It's just like asking whether unicorns exist. The idea of a unicorn is
the intersection of two categories (horse-like creatures, creatures with
a single horn), both of which contain concrete instances - but the
intersection contains no concrete instance. Therefore the word "unicorn"
applies only to the empty category formed by the intersection, and is
not made real by any instance. There can be no actual answer to any
question about a non-actual thing. "God" is like that.

You just answered the question of whether unicorns exist. You said there are no members of the set of horses with horns which means there are no unicorns. So you can say it is invalid to ask how big a unicorn is, or how fast it is or what color it is, but you justified the question of whether they exist by answering it.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 11:22:37 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

On 6/4/20 12:48 am, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Non-theists say that the word "God" is so ill-defined that question of
existence cannot be meaningfully asked, let alone answered.

Intelligent design doesn't require a God, just some intelligence.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 1:36:42 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.

None of us were. Don't you understand anything about evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one way or the other.

Your position that intelligent design is irrational takes the agnostic position off the table.

You've never been told about the laryngeal nerve in the giraffe?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laryngeal_nerve

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[David Brown]

On 06/04/2020 01:37, Ricky C wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 05/04/2020 20:05, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 11:36:42 AM UTC-4,
blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman
wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:58:11 PM UTC+10,
blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Bill
Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 1:10:57 PM UTC+10, mpm
wrote:
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:40:43 AM UTC-4, Bill
Sloman wrote:

If we'd been intelligently designed we might have
been faster to notice where we were screwing it up.

Sloman finally admits he's not intelligently designed.


None of us were. Don't you understand anything about
evolution?

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God

Agnostics merely say that there's no convincing evidence one
way or the other.

Your position that intelligent design is irrational takes the
agnostic position off the table.

Not really, two different issues, believing in God and believing
God created man.


It's fine to say "I believe in God, and that he created evolution"
- that strikes me as a lot more flattering to him than suggesting
he created the flawed human race.

Did you give that any thought at all? If there is a all knowing God,
would he have set up evolution without knowing the sort of human race
that would result??? Or are you suggesting he created evolution as a
sort of experiment just to see what might happen? Again, why would
he not know???

Let's be clear here - this is all highly speculative, totally
unprovable, and with no evidence whatsoever. And personally I don't
think there was any kind god involved anywhere.

But if we assume - as many people believe - that there /is/ a god, and
that he (as it is in most religions) somehow created the world and
humans. Either he did that in recent times, all ready-made with people
all across the world suddenly popping into existence along with fake
dinosaur bones and fake evidence for evolution and the physical
development of the earth over 4.5 billion years, or he set the whole
universe in motion at the big bang in a way that would allow stars and
planets to form and life to evolve. Since then, he's been nudging
things a bit along the way (if god doesn't nudge things, what would be
the point of praying?).

There is also the possibility that there was a designer, but that
he/she/it was not intelligent.

Huh? You mean a universe designed by something equivalent to
humans???

Or like the Magratheans. (I didn't say it was a likely theory, I said
it was a possible interpretation of what Bill wrote.)

There are so many obvious and simple mistakes and bad designs in
biology that there clearly was no "intelligent designer" - or that
he/she/it was having a laugh. I mean, what designer could have put
together the mammalian brain but routed the recurrent laryngeal
nerve on the wrong side of the aortic arch? /That/ is simply not
credible.

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Arrrgggg!

We've all been there, and made things with lots of very clever bits
interspersed with the occasional cockup.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 2:23:32 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

On 06/04/2020 01:37, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

It's fine to say "I believe in God, and that he created evolution"
- that strikes me as a lot more flattering to him than suggesting
he created the flawed human race.

Did you give that any thought at all? If there is a all knowing God,
would he have set up evolution without knowing the sort of human race
that would result??? Or are you suggesting he created evolution as a
sort of experiment just to see what might happen? Again, why would
he not know???


Let's be clear here - this is all highly speculative, totally
unprovable, and with no evidence whatsoever. And personally I don't
think there was any kind god involved anywhere.

But if we assume - as many people believe - that there /is/ a god, and
that he (as it is in most religions) somehow created the world and
humans. Either he did that in recent times, all ready-made with people
all across the world suddenly popping into existence along with fake
dinosaur bones and fake evidence for evolution and the physical
development of the earth over 4.5 billion years, or he set the whole
universe in motion at the big bang in a way that would allow stars and
planets to form and life to evolve. Since then, he's been nudging
things a bit along the way (if god doesn't nudge things, what would be
the point of praying?).

That's the contradiction. What is a godly nudge vs. controlling the universe? Which is it?

There is also the possibility that there was a designer, but that
he/she/it was not intelligent.

Huh? You mean a universe designed by something equivalent to
humans???


Or like the Magratheans. (I didn't say it was a likely theory, I said
it was a possible interpretation of what Bill wrote.)

They didn't create the universe, they just took control of the galaxy.

There are so many obvious and simple mistakes and bad designs in
biology that there clearly was no "intelligent designer" - or that
he/she/it was having a laugh. I mean, what designer could have put
together the mammalian brain but routed the recurrent laryngeal
nerve on the wrong side of the aortic arch? /That/ is simply not
credible.

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Arrrgggg!


We've all been there, and made things with lots of very clever bits
interspersed with the occasional cockup.

No, that was my pirate voice "arrrggg!"

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 7:00:38 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Another un-provable possibility is that the concept of "god" is just another inherent property of matter, like density, color, mass, length, temperature, etc...

You can measure them, but not "god", whatever that might be.

If you find a lot of people bowing down to a lump of rock, you might infer the existence of a high concentration of god in that rock, but a more sophisticated measuring system would find a high concentration of god-botherers in the immediate vicinity.

> I recall Scott Adams (creator of the Dilbert cartoons) once wrote a book along those lines.

But you can't find a link to it, because nobody bothered to publish it?

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[David Brown]

On 06/04/2020 08:54, Ricky C wrote:

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 2:23:32 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 06/04/2020 01:37, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

It's fine to say "I believe in God, and that he created evolution"
- that strikes me as a lot more flattering to him than suggesting
he created the flawed human race.

Did you give that any thought at all? If there is a all knowing God,
would he have set up evolution without knowing the sort of human race
that would result??? Or are you suggesting he created evolution as a
sort of experiment just to see what might happen? Again, why would
he not know???


Let's be clear here - this is all highly speculative, totally
unprovable, and with no evidence whatsoever. And personally I don't
think there was any kind god involved anywhere.

But if we assume - as many people believe - that there /is/ a god, and
that he (as it is in most religions) somehow created the world and
humans. Either he did that in recent times, all ready-made with people
all across the world suddenly popping into existence along with fake
dinosaur bones and fake evidence for evolution and the physical
development of the earth over 4.5 billion years, or he set the whole
universe in motion at the big bang in a way that would allow stars and
planets to form and life to evolve. Since then, he's been nudging
things a bit along the way (if god doesn't nudge things, what would be
the point of praying?).

That's the contradiction. What is a godly nudge vs. controlling the universe? Which is it?

This is not exactly a contradiction - it is a matter of levels.
Micromanaging versus small nudges and hints. There are all sorts of
contradictions in many people's beliefs and religions, such as a belief
that the world is all controlled according to some divine plan, yet god
can be persuaded by prayer. But if you believe that there is detailed
plan, perhaps just a vague strategy or goal, then the contradiction
disappears. It's like playing a simulation game where you tweak
parameters a bit underway to get the effects you want.

There is also the possibility that there was a designer, but that
he/she/it was not intelligent.

Huh? You mean a universe designed by something equivalent to
humans???


Or like the Magratheans. (I didn't say it was a likely theory, I said
it was a possible interpretation of what Bill wrote.)

They didn't create the universe, they just took control of the galaxy.

More accurately, they made some of the planets in the galaxy. But I
said /like/ the Magratheans, not identical to them. However, if it were
a cooperative effort then perhaps it was one of the better designers who
figured out the regenerative abilities of the axolotl, while the
back-to-front retina was an intern prank.

There are so many obvious and simple mistakes and bad designs in
biology that there clearly was no "intelligent designer" - or that
he/she/it was having a laugh. I mean, what designer could have put
together the mammalian brain but routed the recurrent laryngeal
nerve on the wrong side of the aortic arch? /That/ is simply not
credible.

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Arrrgggg!


We've all been there, and made things with lots of very clever bits
interspersed with the occasional cockup.

No, that was my pirate voice "arrrggg!"

That works too.

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 9:25:41 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

On 06/04/2020 08:54, Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 2:23:32 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 06/04/2020 01:37, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

It's fine to say "I believe in God, and that he created evolution"
- that strikes me as a lot more flattering to him than suggesting
he created the flawed human race.

Did you give that any thought at all? If there is a all knowing God,
would he have set up evolution without knowing the sort of human race
that would result??? Or are you suggesting he created evolution as a
sort of experiment just to see what might happen? Again, why would
he not know???


Let's be clear here - this is all highly speculative, totally
unprovable, and with no evidence whatsoever. And personally I don't
think there was any kind god involved anywhere.

But if we assume - as many people believe - that there /is/ a god, and
that he (as it is in most religions) somehow created the world and
humans. Either he did that in recent times, all ready-made with people
all across the world suddenly popping into existence along with fake
dinosaur bones and fake evidence for evolution and the physical
development of the earth over 4.5 billion years, or he set the whole
universe in motion at the big bang in a way that would allow stars and
planets to form and life to evolve. Since then, he's been nudging
things a bit along the way (if god doesn't nudge things, what would be
the point of praying?).

That's the contradiction. What is a godly nudge vs. controlling the universe? Which is it?


This is not exactly a contradiction - it is a matter of levels.
Micromanaging versus small nudges and hints. There are all sorts of
contradictions in many people's beliefs and religions, such as a belief
that the world is all controlled according to some divine plan, yet god
can be persuaded by prayer. But if you believe that there is detailed
plan, perhaps just a vague strategy or goal, then the contradiction
disappears. It's like playing a simulation game where you tweak
parameters a bit underway to get the effects you want.

You are making my case for me. Either God is all powerful, all knowing and has a plan for the universe or not. If He nudges the universe, that is controlling it.

It is a binary choice.

There is also the possibility that there was a designer, but that
he/she/it was not intelligent.

Huh? You mean a universe designed by something equivalent to
humans???


Or like the Magratheans. (I didn't say it was a likely theory, I said
it was a possible interpretation of what Bill wrote.)

They didn't create the universe, they just took control of the galaxy.


More accurately, they made some of the planets in the galaxy. But I
said /like/ the Magratheans, not identical to them. However, if it were
a cooperative effort then perhaps it was one of the better designers who
figured out the regenerative abilities of the axolotl, while the
back-to-front retina was an intern prank.


There are so many obvious and simple mistakes and bad designs in
biology that there clearly was no "intelligent designer" - or that
he/she/it was having a laugh. I mean, what designer could have put
together the mammalian brain but routed the recurrent laryngeal
nerve on the wrong side of the aortic arch? /That/ is simply not
credible.

Perhaps some parts of biology were created by the Flying Spaghetti
Monster after a particularly heavy session at the beer fountain?

Arrrgggg!


We've all been there, and made things with lots of very clever bits
interspersed with the occasional cockup.

No, that was my pirate voice "arrrggg!"


That works too.

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209