APC UPS won't talk to me

N

notme

Guest
[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.

Loop-back test of the serial adapter confirms data is going out and coming
back, being displayed in a terminal program. (Local echo turned off.)

Serial cable (between adapter & UPS) is the correct APC p/n (with unique pin
assignments) for this application and model of UPS. Confirmed this with APC
tech support.

Tried power-cycling the UPS, and connecting the serial cable before & after.
No joy.

What options are left? This is a new (well, New, Old Stock) UPS and has not
seen any use before I powered it up last week.

Ideas?

Mac PowerBook; OS X 10.4.11
APC Backup-Pro 650 (model BP650S); APC serial cable #940-0095B
No-name USB-Serial adapter w/1.2.1r2 Prolific OS X driver

Thanks.
 
In article
<0001HW.C68D4EA00032B730B08A39AF@news.eternal-september.org>,
notme <notme@notme.org> wrote:

[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.

Loop-back test of the serial adapter confirms data is going out and coming
back, being displayed in a terminal program. (Local echo turned off.)

Serial cable (between adapter & UPS) is the correct APC p/n (with unique pin
assignments) for this application and model of UPS. Confirmed this with APC
tech support.

Tried power-cycling the UPS, and connecting the serial cable before & after.
No joy.

What options are left? This is a new (well, New, Old Stock) UPS and has not
seen any use before I powered it up last week.

Ideas?

Mac PowerBook; OS X 10.4.11
APC Backup-Pro 650 (model BP650S); APC serial cable #940-0095B
No-name USB-Serial adapter w/1.2.1r2 Prolific OS X driver

Thanks.
Click to expand...
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BP650S&CF
ID=20442563&CFTOKEN=64258989

says this product is discontinued. It also says there's a DB-9 RS-232
port for signaling a power outage. Usually these sorts of signals tell
the attached system to "power down gracefully" with the aid of software
running on the system. Solaris used to use Powerchute with APC backups
to do this sort of shutdown. According to the Wikipedia page, the
RS-232 pin-outs are non-standard and proprietary to APC. APC makes a
version of Powerchute for MacOS X:

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/JMIS-6KSRLT_R0_EN.pdf

If you're up to "rolling your own", then that leaves you to reverse
engineer the interface, then write a program that, when installed, runs
on bootup (rather than just when someone logs in) and listens to the
USB-Serial adapter for a signal that the power has gone out, then runs a
graceful shutdown script.

Seems like a lot to go through for a laptop. If this was going on a
server system, I could see where this would be nice hackware project.
Don't know what APC would do to you if they found you reverse
engineering their product, but that's your problem.

Have fun.

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by ignored]
 
notme wrote:
[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.

Loop-back test of the serial adapter confirms data is going out and coming
back, being displayed in a terminal program. (Local echo turned off.)

Serial cable (between adapter & UPS) is the correct APC p/n (with unique pin
assignments) for this application and model of UPS. Confirmed this with APC
tech support.

Tried power-cycling the UPS, and connecting the serial cable before & after.
No joy.

What options are left? This is a new (well, New, Old Stock) UPS and has not
seen any use before I powered it up last week.

Ideas?

Mac PowerBook; OS X 10.4.11
APC Backup-Pro 650 (model BP650S); APC serial cable #940-0095B
No-name USB-Serial adapter w/1.2.1r2 Prolific OS X driver

Thanks.

So you know the cable is OK via APC support .AND. that loopback works OK.
Click to expand...
Loopback working OK also indicates that at least that part of the
converter is working properly.
So, take a small step of faith and assume the whole converter can
work OK (ie: nothing wrong with it).
Therefore, it is the software: either the USB driver (most likely) or
the application.
 
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BP650S&CF
ID=20442563&CFTOKEN=64258989

says this product is discontinued.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know. "Discontinued" does not mean obsolete. New models are introduced
every month so as to keep that cash rollin' in. The "old" models still
provide a service. (In my case for $0.)

APC makes a version of Powerchute for MacOS X:

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/JMIS-6KSRLT_R0_EN.pdf
Click to expand...
According to e-mail correspondence with APC tech support, there is no
Powerchute version compatible with the BP650S UPS model. They recommend using
the built-in UPS monitoring features in Mac OS X.

If you're up to "rolling your own", then that leaves you to reverse
engineer the interface, then write a program that, when installed, runs
on bootup (rather than just when someone logs in) and listens to the
USB-Serial adapter for a signal that the power has gone out, then runs a
graceful shutdown script.
Click to expand...
Not worth it, if that's the answer.

I hope someone chimes in this discussion that they experienced this issue and
found a way to make it work with the built-in OS's UPS monitoring features...

Thanks.
 
So you know the cable is OK via APC support .AND. that loopback works OK.
Loopback working OK also indicates that at least that part of the
converter is working properly.
So, take a small step of faith and assume the whole converter can
work OK (ie: nothing wrong with it).
Therefore, it is the software: either the USB driver (most likely)
Click to expand...
If data is going out and coming in, that means the USB driver works. Yes?

or the application.
Click to expand...
It's not a stand-alone app. It's part of the System Preferences of Mac OS X.

And Googling a bit, I've seen no evidence that the UPS monitoring feature has
been an issue with other models of UPS.

So, I suspect it's a non-standard spec of the APC UPS communication spec for
this model. Worst case.

N.
 
In article
<0001HW.C68D61EA00373CAEB08A39AF@news.eternal-september.org>,
notme <notme@notme.org> wrote:

So you know the cable is OK via APC support .AND. that loopback works OK.
Loopback working OK also indicates that at least that part of the
converter is working properly.
So, take a small step of faith and assume the whole converter can
work OK (ie: nothing wrong with it).
Therefore, it is the software: either the USB driver (most likely)

If data is going out and coming in, that means the USB driver works. Yes?

or the application.

It's not a stand-alone app. It's part of the System Preferences of Mac OS X.

And Googling a bit, I've seen no evidence that the UPS monitoring feature has
been an issue with other models of UPS.

So, I suspect it's a non-standard spec of the APC UPS communication spec for
this model. Worst case.

N.
Click to expand...
That's what the Wikipedia article on Powerchute said. The serial
pinouts are non-standard and the signals coming out are proprietary.

Start by buying a break-out box to test the signals in the RS-232
interface to see what they do when the power is cut. Then see what the
USB converter does with that. If it doesn't see anything, you'll have
to craft your own converter.

Given you're lack of maker-ethic (e.g. you won't "figure it out for
yourself"), my guess is you'll have to either pay someone else to do it
or wait until someone with identical UPS and Macintosh get it running or
retire the unit to paperweight duty until your wife says to clean up
your mess. Either way, unless you figure it out and get it working,
it's not going to be doing much of anything right now.

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by ignored]
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:17:52 -0700, notme wrote:

[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.

Ideas?
Click to expand...
UPSes don't normally speak serial. More often, they simply connect two
pins together, treating the serial port as a general-purpose I/O port.
This won't work with a USB-to-serial converter, as there is no serial data
to convert.
 
"notme" <notme@notme.org> schreef in bericht
news:0001HW.C68D4EA00032B730B08A39AF@news.eternal-september.org...
[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when
the
UPS communicates its presence.

Loop-back test of the serial adapter confirms data is going out and coming
back, being displayed in a terminal program. (Local echo turned off.)

Serial cable (between adapter & UPS) is the correct APC p/n (with unique
pin
assignments) for this application and model of UPS. Confirmed this with
APC
tech support.

Tried power-cycling the UPS, and connecting the serial cable before &
after.
No joy.

What options are left? This is a new (well, New, Old Stock) UPS and has
not
seen any use before I powered it up last week.

Ideas?

Mac PowerBook; OS X 10.4.11
APC Backup-Pro 650 (model BP650S); APC serial cable #940-0095B
No-name USB-Serial adapter w/1.2.1r2 Prolific OS X driver

Thanks.
Click to expand...
FAIK APC UPS communication should be started by sending a question mark to
it.

petrus bitbyter
 
APC used to have an adapter cable. My guess is that a "standard"
USB-to-RS-232 cable is not likely to work.

As another person said, I don't see the point for a notebook, even a desktop
replacement. I assume the Mac has some system for automatic shutdown as the
batteries are drained. (Windows does.) So, simply set it and the computer
will shut down gracefully is power is lost.
 
In article <4a683f3f$0$10060$e4fe514c@dreader13.news.xs4all.nl>, "petrus bitbyter" <pieterkraltlaatditweg@enditookhccnet.nl> writes:
"notme" <notme@notme.org> schreef in bericht
news:0001HW.C68D4EA00032B730B08A39AF@news.eternal-september.org...
[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when
the
UPS communicates its presence.

Loop-back test of the serial adapter confirms data is going out and coming
back, being displayed in a terminal program. (Local echo turned off.)

Serial cable (between adapter & UPS) is the correct APC p/n (with unique
pin
assignments) for this application and model of UPS. Confirmed this with
APC
tech support.

Tried power-cycling the UPS, and connecting the serial cable before &
after.
No joy.

What options are left? This is a new (well, New, Old Stock) UPS and has
not
seen any use before I powered it up last week.

Ideas?

Mac PowerBook; OS X 10.4.11
APC Backup-Pro 650 (model BP650S); APC serial cable #940-0095B
No-name USB-Serial adapter w/1.2.1r2 Prolific OS X driver

Thanks.


FAIK APC UPS communication should be started by sending a question mark to
it.
Click to expand...
try: Y

But the BackUPS don't use APC's Smart protocol.

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

http://www.quirkfactory.com/popart/asskey/eqn2.png

"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:17:52 -0700, notme <notme@notme.org>wrote:

[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.

Loop-back test of the serial adapter confirms data is going out and coming
back, being displayed in a terminal program. (Local echo turned off.)

Serial cable (between adapter & UPS) is the correct APC p/n (with unique pin
assignments) for this application and model of UPS. Confirmed this with APC
tech support.

Tried power-cycling the UPS, and connecting the serial cable before & after.
No joy.

What options are left? This is a new (well, New, Old Stock) UPS and has not
seen any use before I powered it up last week.

Ideas?

Mac PowerBook; OS X 10.4.11
APC Backup-Pro 650 (model BP650S); APC serial cable #940-0095B
No-name USB-Serial adapter w/1.2.1r2 Prolific OS X driver

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Why would you want to monitor a UPS with a laptop? That connection
between PC and UPS is designed to monitor the UPS's performance
(depending on the UPS model) and for the UPS to signal the PC to shut
down before the battery level is depleated. You already have that
capability in your laptop.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:12:01 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in article <h49gje$n5c$1@news.eternal-september.org>):

APC used to have an adapter cable. My guess is that a "standard"
USB-to-RS-232 cable is not likely to work.
Click to expand...
I hope that's not so.

In my communications with APC tech support they have not yet mentioned this
requirement in my setup. Not that they're infallible, but I'd think that they
would point out this obvious mistake in reply to my first e-mail describing
my setup.

As another person said, I don't see the point for a notebook, even a desktop
replacement. I assume the Mac has some system for automatic shutdown as the
batteries are drained. (Windows does.) So, simply set it and the computer
will shut down gracefully is power is lost.
Click to expand...
The laptop is just a convenient test mule. The system that will benefit from
the UPS' communication (hopefully) is a desktop system..
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:52:56 -0700, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote
(in article <00A8EEF3.0E2607B9@SendSpamHere.ORG>):

try: Y

But the BackUPS don't use APC's Smart protocol.
Click to expand...
If I had an APC Smart-UPS with both RS232 and a Smart Slot, the serial port
on the Smart-UPS would have a better chance of working with my USB-serial
adapter?

Thanks.
 
APC used to have an adapter cable. My guess is that a "standard"
USB-to-RS-232 cable is not likely to work.

In my communications with APC tech support they have not yet mentioned
this requirement in my setup. Not that they're infallible, but I'd think
that they
would point out this obvious mistake in reply to my first e-mail
describing
my setup.
Click to expand...
Well, they did it to me. I was told I needed a special cable, but it didn't
work. Turned out that when I directly connected the standard cable to the
computer (running W2K), the machine immediately recognized the UPC.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:45:10 -0700, petrus bitbyter wrote
(in article <4a683f3f$0$10060$e4fe514c@dreader13.news.xs4all.nl>):

FAIK APC UPS communication should be started by sending a question mark to
it.

petrus bitbyter
Click to expand...
For troubleshooting purposes, what settings should the terminal program use?
- VT100 or PC-ANSI?
- High bit stripped?
- Drop DTR on exit?
- Auto line-feed?

Thanks.
 
In article <pan.2009.07.23.10.43.30.391000@nowhere.com>,
Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:17:52 -0700, notme wrote:

[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.

Ideas?

UPSes don't normally speak serial. More often, they simply connect two
pins together, treating the serial port as a general-purpose I/O port.
This won't work with a USB-to-serial converter, as there is no serial data
to convert.
Click to expand...
Depends on if the converter supports the handshake lines. Some of
them do.
--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:07:40 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in article <h49ud9$f7e$1@news.eternal-september.org>):

Well, they did it to me. I was told I needed a special cable, but it didn't
work. Turned out that when I directly connected the standard cable to the
computer (running W2K), the machine immediately recognized the UPC.
Click to expand...
I tried both (with & without special cable). No joy.

Thanks.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:07:40 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in article <h49ud9$f7e$1@news.eternal-september.org>):

Well, they did it to me. I was told I needed a special cable, but it didn't
work. Turned out that when I directly connected the standard cable to the
computer (running W2K), the machine immediately recognized the UPC.
Click to expand...
APC Tech Support's final solution: Plug the UPS into a PC and see if it
recognizes it.

Being a Mac guy, don't know much about the Win world. Is there UPS
communication & recognition features built into Win XP? Or do I need to have
APC management software installed?

Thanks.
 
Being a Mac guy, don't know much about the Win world. Is there
UPS communication & recognition features built into Win XP?
Or do I need to have APC management software installed?
Click to expand...
If it's in W2K, it should also be in XP.

The supplied cable has a J connector on one end, USB on the other. A few
seconds after both ends are plugged in, the OS recognizes that a UPS
(strictly speaking, an SPS) is connected and opens the Power Options
Properties tab. Couldn't be simpler.

There is no need to use APC's PowerChute, unless it has a specific feature
no in the Windows OS.
 
In article <0001HW.C68D4EA00032B730B08A39AF@news.eternal-september.org>,
notme@notme.org says...
[Re-posted with new subject and more appropriate NG's)

Using a USB-to-Serial adapter to connect a laptop to APC UPS' RS232 serial
port.

No signs of communication from the UPS. The laptop's OS has an
auto-recognition feature that enables built-in power-down options if/when the
UPS communicates its presence.
Click to expand...
To add in: Many of the basic APC UPS's don't use true serial
communications. They just use some of the control lines to signify power
out, low battery, and to signal the UPS to do a shutdown. I don't know
if it will work correctly through a USB-to-serial adapter.

My work computer has a BP650M with a self-made cable. It's just a
standard 9-pin serial cable, but the UPS end is slightly rewired, and I
think there is also a resistor. It's just using the stock Win2K support.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
 
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