AoE x-Chapters - 1x.1 Wire-&-Connectors

[Phil Hobbs]

On 8/7/19 6:28 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 17:43:13 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 8/7/19 2:09 PM, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 03:49:45 UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
klaus.kragelund@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c330dff-88c9-49c8-bec7-791abba79a50@googlegroups.com...
Avoid SMD connectors, they rip off the traces of the PCB


Sorta. I don't have a problem with SMTs for board-to-board and
light internal cabling. The key enabler being that it's not
fiddled with by the user, and that it's not bearing a lot of force
especially during vibration

Your perspective may be skewed even further in the direction of
super high reliability, like, multiple decades. The above is
adequate for ~1 decade automotive customers. Consumer junk of
course uses SMT-exposed-to-user connectors all the time, and barely
get a year.

So, some discussion on reliability versus technology versus
application might be worthwhile. There can be no one answer!


For high quality connections, use pressfit, which also removes
the leaded wave solder process


Heh... if the pins mate properly; Joerg has a story about that.


Speaking of... come to think of it, they're usually tin plated
pins, aren't they? In a ENIG hole, say? Isn't that prone to
fretting?


It's a cold weld joint. No fretting possible, and you are right, it
is a plated hole


IIRC some years ago there was a big fad about how you mustn't mate tin
and gold connectors. How did that come out, anyway?


The kids look weird.

Coming from SF, that must mean >2 heads or something.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[George Herold]

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 1:29:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 8/7/19 9:36 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:38:31 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/6/19 10:02 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 9:58:20 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/5/19 8:50 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 2:23:12 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/5/19 8:32 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts things off, by
dealing with wire and connectors. Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1




Wow, an embarrassment of riches today.

One other thing about Teflon wire is that it's a royal pain to strip
using dikes.
Huh, Phil, I've been meaning to ask this for a while... but it
seems to me you need a good pair of dikes, with sharp holes for each
wire size. I've got these "paladin" strippers.. but I think someone
bought them out.
Can I send you some good strippers for your Birthday? :^)

I'll be 60 late next month, so a few strippers would be apropos--just
don't tell my wife. Maybe they could jump out of a cake.

I generally use Xcelite flush cutters, which are far better than the
usual axe-blade dikes. I also have the usual spade lug crimper / bolt
cutter/ wire stripper tools. I don't like the big clunky strippers that
mechanically sense the insulation and adjust their blades accordingly--I
just want insulation to do as it's damn well told, and Teflon doesn't,
in so many, many ways.

Well I've got a pair of these,
https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-PA1118-GripP-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHHDQ
(I guess Grennlee bought Paladin tools) If you don't have something like that
then that's what's coming for your B-day. I see Amazon has a deal on two pairs,
(different wire sizes.) I don't think I can make 'em jump out of a cake. :^)

George h.

Very kind of you, but I'd never use them. (The ones that come out of
the cake though...nah, I'd never use those either.)

OK, just trying to help you find the right tool.
After a while pounding nails with the crescent* hammer gets old.

George h.
*Gessh googling there are a bunch of crescent wrenches with built in hammers...
who knew.

Big clunky strippers and crimp tools are great for making cables. I'm
usually building protos, so I really need something small so I can
solder one end of the wire, gauge the length, cut, strip, and solder the
other end without changing tools, which slows me down. Hence the
Xcelite Model 170D flush cutters.

Huh, right. I use to do that solder one end, cut to length and strip,
and solder*. Then I borrowed the good wire strippers from production.
They are to clunky to fit in tight... but for longer less important
power/ control leads, I lay down, cut to length.
Then pull away and strip the ends off. If you had to do that when
working with teflon, it wouldn't take that much longer.

I'm sending strippers for your B-day... well because even if
you don't use them. You still did get strippers and you're
only 60 for once, and it's only ~$20.

My four main layout tools.. not counting soldering iron,
Thin wire cutters... thin is nice for snipping out mistakes.
Tweezers and needle nose pliers for bending leads, wires,
and holding stuff in place for the soldering iron.
And the above wire strippers. Unless I clean up, those tools
are always on my bench.

George H.
*or just melt away some of the plastic with the non-solder
part of the iron. Ahh, the smell of plastic in the morning. :^)

It's super easy with irradiated PVC, harder with Kynar, and impossible
with Teflon.

Cheers

Phil

(All of whose wrenches can also be hammers.)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 8/7/19 8:29 PM, George Herold wrote:

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 1:29:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/7/19 9:36 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:38:31 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/6/19 10:02 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 9:58:20 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/5/19 8:50 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 2:23:12 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/5/19 8:32 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts things off, by
dealing with wire and connectors. Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1




Wow, an embarrassment of riches today.

One other thing about Teflon wire is that it's a royal pain to strip
using dikes.
Huh, Phil, I've been meaning to ask this for a while... but it
seems to me you need a good pair of dikes, with sharp holes for each
wire size. I've got these "paladin" strippers.. but I think someone
bought them out.
Can I send you some good strippers for your Birthday? :^)

I'll be 60 late next month, so a few strippers would be apropos--just
don't tell my wife. Maybe they could jump out of a cake.

I generally use Xcelite flush cutters, which are far better than the
usual axe-blade dikes. I also have the usual spade lug crimper / bolt
cutter/ wire stripper tools. I don't like the big clunky strippers that
mechanically sense the insulation and adjust their blades accordingly--I
just want insulation to do as it's damn well told, and Teflon doesn't,
in so many, many ways.

Well I've got a pair of these,
https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-PA1118-GripP-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHHDQ
(I guess Grennlee bought Paladin tools) If you don't have something like that
then that's what's coming for your B-day. I see Amazon has a deal on two pairs,
(different wire sizes.) I don't think I can make 'em jump out of a cake. :^)

George h.

Very kind of you, but I'd never use them. (The ones that come out of
the cake though...nah, I'd never use those either.)

OK, just trying to help you find the right tool.
After a while pounding nails with the crescent* hammer gets old.

George h.
*Gessh googling there are a bunch of crescent wrenches with built in hammers...
who knew.

Big clunky strippers and crimp tools are great for making cables. I'm
usually building protos, so I really need something small so I can
solder one end of the wire, gauge the length, cut, strip, and solder the
other end without changing tools, which slows me down. Hence the
Xcelite Model 170D flush cutters.
Huh, right. I use to do that solder one end, cut to length and strip,
and solder*. Then I borrowed the good wire strippers from production.
They are to clunky to fit in tight... but for longer less important
power/ control leads, I lay down, cut to length.
Then pull away and strip the ends off. If you had to do that when
working with teflon, it wouldn't take that much longer.

I'm sending strippers for your B-day... well because even if
you don't use them. You still did get strippers and you're
only 60 for once, and it's only ~$20.

My four main layout tools.. not counting soldering iron,
Thin wire cutters... thin is nice for snipping out mistakes.
Tweezers and needle nose pliers for bending leads, wires,
and holding stuff in place for the soldering iron.
And the above wire strippers. Unless I clean up, those tools
are always on my bench.

George H.

Well, thanks very much. I'll definitely try the wire strippers out.

[Anybody who wants to send the other sort, thanks but I'd rather stay
married.]

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts
things off, by dealing with wire and connectors.
Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1

Coax inner conductor is "usually stranded"? Well, maybe for some but
not for video types.

Fig 1x16 db values should be negative.

 

[Tim Williams]

"Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote in
message news:qig7r7$9qu$1@dont-email.me...

Winfield Hill wrote:
Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts
things off, by dealing with wire and connectors.
Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1

Coax inner conductor is "usually stranded"? Well, maybe for some but not
for video types.

There's a lot of RG58, RG174 and so on out there.

There's also a lot of heliax... depends who you ask...

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

 

[Tim Williams]

"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:bp8mkeh14if2qsvmvdde5t67chsg7vkc7m@4ax.com...

It controlled an exhaust fan on the roof, for the reflow oven room a
floor down. We could see 20 volt spikes on oscilloscopes in our lab,
which happened to be right below the monster.

It was installed by licensed union electricians and all the wiring was
in conduit.

See, this actually makes sense as an example of an offensive noise source.
You could've just opened with that.

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:18:46 -0400) it happened "Tom Del Rosso"
<fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote in
<qig7r7$9qu$1@dont-email.me>:

Winfield Hill wrote:
Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts
things off, by dealing with wire and connectors.
Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1

Coax inner conductor is "usually stranded"? Well, maybe for some but
not for video types.

And every household that has satellite uses F connectors, based on solid core,
for connection to the LNB, up to about 2 GHz.

 

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 12:19:47 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 19:39:56 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 08:24:32 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 18:21:57 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

That fancy approach works great until you find yourself working next to
a big VF motor drive.


It was impossible to do engineering in the same building with this one

https://www.dropbox.com/s/glsnthfa6bnluil/VFD.JPG?raw=1

until we hacked it in and out, which took a few iterations.

Let me guess, it is a VFD for an air conditioning fan which spews
interference all over the HF bad, especially if installed against
instructions. No point of having an HF antenna on the same roof.

It controlled an exhaust fan on the roof, for the reflow oven room a
floor down. We could see 20 volt spikes on oscilloscopes in our lab,
which happened to be right below the monster.

It was installed by licensed union electricians and all the wiring was
in conduit.

Is that corrugated conduit metallic and if so, is the conduit grounded
at least from one end ?

Are there filter capacitors in the aluminum box to the right ? At
least there seems to be parallel connections to the output. Is the
filter now an LC filter or just some series inductance ?

It seems that also other small VFD manufacturer seem to leave out all
filtering For that reason some manufacturer specify in their
installation guide that shielded motor cables must be used. When using
ordinary wiring instead, the system radiated as hell :-(.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:29:41 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 12:19:47 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 19:39:56 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 08:24:32 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 18:21:57 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

That fancy approach works great until you find yourself working next to
a big VF motor drive.


It was impossible to do engineering in the same building with this one

https://www.dropbox.com/s/glsnthfa6bnluil/VFD.JPG?raw=1

until we hacked it in and out, which took a few iterations.

Let me guess, it is a VFD for an air conditioning fan which spews
interference all over the HF bad, especially if installed against
instructions. No point of having an HF antenna on the same roof.

It controlled an exhaust fan on the roof, for the reflow oven room a
floor down. We could see 20 volt spikes on oscilloscopes in our lab,
which happened to be right below the monster.

It was installed by licensed union electricians and all the wiring was
in conduit.

Is that corrugated conduit metallic and if so, is the conduit grounded
at least from one end ?

Both ends, naturally.

Are there filter capacitors in the aluminum box to the right ? At
least there seems to be parallel connections to the output. Is the
filter now an LC filter or just some series inductance ?

The shiny box is a commercial AC line filter on the input side. We had
to add the toroids to the outputs.

It seems that also other small VFD manufacturer seem to leave out all
filtering For that reason some manufacturer specify in their
installation guide that shielded motor cables must be used. When using
ordinary wiring instead, the system radiated as hell :-(.

Yup.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

p. 12. In German, "Litz" and "Litzendraht" begin with capital letters because all nouns do.

 

[Reinhard Zwirner]

mc@uga.edu schrieb:
> p. 12. In German, "Litz" and "Litzendraht" begin with capital letters because all nouns do.

But then it should also read "Litze", because "Litz" isn't a German word.

HTH

Reinhard

 

[Winfield Hill]

Reinhard Zwirner wrote...

mc@uga.edu schrieb:
p. 12. In German, "Litz" and "Litzendraht" begin
with capital letters because all nouns do.

But then it should also read "Litze", because "Litz"
isn't a German word.

If we were to use the German word, we'd put it in
italics, and capitalize it. But they've also become
English words, and are found in our dictionaries.
But we should have capitalized the italicized German
in footnote 22, where we translated its meaning.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[rangerssuck]

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 10:20:18 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts
things off, by dealing with wire and connectors.
Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1


--
Thanks,
- Win

Would be good to have a mention of the evils of tinning stranded wire on vibrating equipment. The wire then loses its flexibility and breaks. A common (but really bad) practice is soldering crimped connectors. In my mechanic days, I fixed a lot of problems by cutting off the tinned area of the (now broken) wire and crimping on a new connector with proper insulation strain relief. I think there is a publication from AMP (now Tyco or whoever) describing this problem.

 

[amdx]

On 8/7/2019 8:36 AM, George Herold wrote:

On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:38:31 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/6/19 10:02 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 9:58:20 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/5/19 8:50 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 2:23:12 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/5/19 8:32 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Here's a DRAFT copy of x-Chapter 1x.1, which starts things off, by
dealing with wire and connectors. Comments and corrections please.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz335xwvl5v8gie/1x.1_Wire-%26-Connectors_DRAFT.pdf?dl=1




Wow, an embarrassment of riches today.

One other thing about Teflon wire is that it's a royal pain to strip
using dikes.
Huh, Phil, I've been meaning to ask this for a while... but it
seems to me you need a good pair of dikes, with sharp holes for each
wire size. I've got these "paladin" strippers.. but I think someone
bought them out.
Can I send you some good strippers for your Birthday? :^)

I'll be 60 late next month, so a few strippers would be apropos--just
don't tell my wife. Maybe they could jump out of a cake.

I generally use Xcelite flush cutters, which are far better than the
usual axe-blade dikes. I also have the usual spade lug crimper / bolt
cutter/ wire stripper tools. I don't like the big clunky strippers that
mechanically sense the insulation and adjust their blades accordingly--I
just want insulation to do as it's damn well told, and Teflon doesn't,
in so many, many ways.

Well I've got a pair of these,
https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-PA1118-GripP-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHHDQ
(I guess Grennlee bought Paladin tools) If you don't have something like that
then that's what's coming for your B-day. I see Amazon has a deal on two pairs,
(different wire sizes.) I don't think I can make 'em jump out of a cake. :^)

George h.

Very kind of you, but I'd never use them. (The ones that come out of
the cake though...nah, I'd never use those either.)

OK, just trying to help you find the right tool.
After a while pounding nails with the crescent* hammer gets old.

George h.
*Gessh googling there are a bunch of crescent wrenches with built in hammers...
who knew.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

These are the best copper wire varnish strippers I have.
I have had them sense the early 80's, they do work with plastic
insulation, but are best at scraping off Polyurethane/Polyamide and the
higher temp resins from solid copper wire.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8kmol7wjb8k8vq/wirestripperinhand.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrw74t82jeqdr7l/WireStripper.jpg?dl=0

Notice one blade broke about 15 years ago and I just use tape to keep
it in place.
Mikek