Anyone feel the Planet Cooling?

[Phil Allison]

Hi,

with aviation at a near standstill, vastly reduced road traffic, retail businesses & whole industries in hibernation - CO2 production has dropped amazingly.

The Chinese contribution to CO2 and particulate air pollution has similarly dropped and may stay that way for years.

Debts owed to China will likely go unpaid, export products go un-purchased and more foreign manufacturing enterprises based in China pulled out etc.

Foreign investments by Chinese corporations will be halted and maybe Chinese military expansion too.

It's an ill wind ....

BTW:

If some Chinese workers say that are staving, then let them eat bats.....


..... Phil ;-)

 

[bitrex]

On 4/18/2020 9:00 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

Hi,

with aviation at a near standstill, vastly reduced road traffic, retail businesses & whole industries in hibernation - CO2 production has dropped amazingly.

The Chinese contribution to CO2 and particulate air pollution has similarly dropped and may stay that way for years.

Debts owed to China will likely go unpaid, export products go un-purchased and more foreign manufacturing enterprises based in China pulled out etc.

Foreign investments by Chinese corporations will be halted and maybe Chinese military expansion too.

It's an ill wind ....

BTW:

If some Chinese workers say that are staving, then let them eat bats.....


.... Phil ;-)

Yeah it snowed here late last night about two inches worth, very unusual
for late April in New England.

Power cut out briefly, came back on for a minute, then there was the
brightest turquoise transformer-fail flash I ever seen lit up the sky
somewhere out west of here, and a distant buzz and "Ka-chunk!" noise.
Power went down again for a few minutes. Then back up again and seemed
fine after that.

Not much snow fell this winter otherwise unusually warm and light winter
season. maybe they got complacent on the winter maintenance.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:04:32 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Folks are talking about liquidating Chinese overseas investments for
reparation.

That might not be the best move. China might retaliate by dumping
Treasuries.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-18 21:00, Phil Allison wrote:

Hi,

with aviation at a near standstill, vastly reduced road traffic,
retail businesses & whole industries in hibernation - CO2 production
has dropped amazingly.

The Chinese contribution to CO2 and particulate air pollution has
similarly dropped and may stay that way for years.

Debts owed to China will likely go unpaid, export products go
un-purchased and more foreign manufacturing enterprises based in
China pulled out etc.

Foreign investments by Chinese corporations will be halted and maybe
Chinese military expansion too.

It's an ill wind ....

BTW:

If some Chinese workers say that are staving, then let them eat
bats.....


..... Phil ;-)

Folks are talking about liquidating Chinese overseas investments for
reparation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

Cursitor Doom <cd@not4mail.com> wrote in news:r7hudf$al9$1@dont-
email.me:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:04:32 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Folks are talking about liquidating Chinese overseas investments
for
reparation.

That might not be the best move. China might retaliate by dumping
Treasuries.

Or by witholding trade of rare earth minerals and metals and
procesed chemical compounds they normally trade in.

TrumpTaintedŠ groupies are loving this China blame narrative
because they are warmongering low lifes.

We can slowly pull investments and back away without them becoming
alarmed so much.

If we bring chip fab houses back to the US, however, you can count
on your electronic product prices going up. I mean complex items,
not an LED light bulb.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-19 12:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:04:32 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Folks are talking about liquidating Chinese overseas investments for
reparation.

That might not be the best move. China might retaliate by dumping
Treasuries.

Revoking their Treasuries is also under discussion. You can't get
anywhere near proportionate amounts without doing that.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:07:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Revoking their Treasuries is also under discussion. You can't get
anywhere near proportionate amounts without doing that.

If I understand you correctly, that would be de facto *default* - however
you want to dress it up. A very dangerous course of action indeed and
highly likely to push up borrowing rates for the US at a time when it's
already very heavily leveraged.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-19 14:13, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:07:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Revoking their Treasuries is also under discussion. You can't get
anywhere near proportionate amounts without doing that.

If I understand you correctly, that would be de facto *default* - however
you want to dress it up. A very dangerous course of action indeed and
highly likely to push up borrowing rates for the US at a time when it's
already very heavily leveraged.

Although reality is not a social construction, fiat money definitely is.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:20:14 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

> Although reality is not a social construction, fiat money definitely is.

So you're saying you're happy for the US to default on its sovereign
debt?? Think about the massive implications, Phil.

 

Although reality is not a social construction, fiat money definitely is.

So you're saying you're happy for the US to default on its sovereign
debt?? Think about the massive implications, Phil

I'm not advocating anything myself. However, the national debt is now entirely theoretical--it can't ever be repaid.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:39:15 -0700, pcdhobbs wrote:

I'm not advocating anything myself. However, the national debt is now
entirely theoretical--it can't ever be repaid.

Exactly. And defaulting on a substantial part of it on the pretext of
taking 'compensation' from China would be seen by the investment
community for exactly what it really is. Other countries will start to
shun US paper with a substantial risk a dollar collapse to go with it.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-19 18:00, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:39:15 -0700, pcdhobbs wrote:

I'm not advocating anything myself. However, the national debt is now
entirely theoretical--it can't ever be repaid.

Exactly. And defaulting on a substantial part of it on the pretext of
taking 'compensation' from China would be seen by the investment
community for exactly what it really is. Other countries will start to
shun US paper with a substantial risk a dollar collapse to go with it.

Only if they aren't doing the same thing themselves. Nobody paid back
money owed to Tsarist Russia after 1917, for instance.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:20:10 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Only if they aren't doing the same thing themselves. Nobody paid back
money owed to Tsarist Russia after 1917, for instance.

But there *are* other countries doing the same thing, so a dollar
collapse would most likely just be the first in a row of falling dominos.
~This is a favourite topic of the regulars over at Zerohedge. They call
it the "Great Reset" and a pretty far-sighted bunch of observers they
are, too.

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:07:49 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-04-19 12:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:04:32 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Folks are talking about liquidating Chinese overseas investments for
reparation.

That might not be the best move. China might retaliate by dumping
Treasuries.


Revoking their Treasuries is also under discussion. You can't get
anywhere near proportionate amounts without doing that.

I like the way you say that. "Under discussion" by whom???

Yeah, we are discussing it. lol

Do that and no one will ever buy a US treasury again. But at least we will be starting from a very low debt point. Trouble is we are still running a massive deficit even before the economy tanked and trillions of bailouts were issued. That means we still need to up and up our borrowing, meaning we would be fucking ourselves very earnestly.

Yeah, let's discuss this.

Any other bright ideas? At least let's get out from under the virus before we cut off our supply of PPE and virtually everything else.


--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:20:24 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-04-19 14:13, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:07:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Revoking their Treasuries is also under discussion. You can't get
anywhere near proportionate amounts without doing that.

If I understand you correctly, that would be de facto *default* - however
you want to dress it up. A very dangerous course of action indeed and
highly likely to push up borrowing rates for the US at a time when it's
already very heavily leveraged.


Although reality is not a social construction, fiat money definitely is.

I understand you so much better now.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 12:04:37 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-04-18 21:00, Phil Allison wrote:

Hi,

with aviation at a near standstill, vastly reduced road traffic,
retail businesses & whole industries in hibernation - CO2 production
has dropped amazingly.

The Chinese contribution to CO2 and particulate air pollution has
similarly dropped and may stay that way for years.

Debts owed to China will likely go unpaid, export products go
un-purchased and more foreign manufacturing enterprises based in
China pulled out etc.

Foreign investments by Chinese corporations will be halted and maybe
Chinese military expansion too.

It's an ill wind ....

BTW:

If some Chinese workers say that are staving, then let them eat
bats.....


..... Phil ;-)

Folks are talking about liquidating Chinese overseas investments for
reparation.

Talk is cheap.

Do you want the Chinese to liquidate US holdings in China? They are pretty sizable these days.

Anymore, pointing a gun at the head of the Chinese needs to take into account that our heads are right next to them. If you think closing businesses in the US for a couple of months creates a depression, wait until you cut all trade with China. That will blow us away for decades. In fact, it would likely mark the end of the US as a world economic power.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 5:39:19 PM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com wrote:

Although reality is not a social construction, fiat money definitely is.

So you're saying you're happy for the US to default on its sovereign
debt?? Think about the massive implications, Phil

I'm not advocating anything myself. However, the national debt is now entirely theoretical--it can't ever be repaid.

That's not true. If it were true it would mean we have a limited time to our economy crashing. Well, maybe it is true. I don't care much about the economy. As long as the banks don't fail I'm good.

Do you have your bug out bag ready?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-19 19:28, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:20:10 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Only if they aren't doing the same thing themselves. Nobody paid back
money owed to Tsarist Russia after 1917, for instance.

But there *are* other countries doing the same thing, so a dollar
collapse would most likely just be the first in a row of falling dominos.
~This is a favourite topic of the regulars over at Zerohedge. They call
it the "Great Reset" and a pretty far-sighted bunch of observers they
are, too.

What I mean is that if everybody punishes China, it won't be the same as
a default.

Modern monetary theory (MMT) is completely topsy-turvy in classical
econonics terms.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 9:59:39 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-04-19 19:28, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:20:10 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Only if they aren't doing the same thing themselves. Nobody paid back
money owed to Tsarist Russia after 1917, for instance.

But there *are* other countries doing the same thing, so a dollar
collapse would most likely just be the first in a row of falling dominos.
~This is a favourite topic of the regulars over at Zerohedge. They call
it the "Great Reset" and a pretty far-sighted bunch of observers they
are, too.


What I mean is that if everybody punishes China, it won't be the same as
a default.

That's possible. But no government is talking about "punishing" China. NONE. This is just a tempest in a teacup started to sell news.

Are you really so gullible as to believe governments are behind this?

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[George Herold]

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 9:00:22 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Hi,

with aviation at a near standstill, vastly reduced road traffic, retail businesses & whole industries in hibernation - CO2 production has dropped amazingly.

I do notice the lack of contrails. (Well when I can see the sky.)
I think the contrails lead to a net cooling... there might be
some better data on that once planes start flying again.

George H.

The Chinese contribution to CO2 and particulate air pollution has similarly dropped and may stay that way for years.

Debts owed to China will likely go unpaid, export products go un-purchased and more foreign manufacturing enterprises based in China pulled out etc.

Foreign investments by Chinese corporations will be halted and maybe Chinese military expansion too.

It's an ill wind ....

BTW:

If some Chinese workers say that are staving, then let them eat bats.....


.... Phil ;-)