Antenna rotator question

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 3 May 2017 11:52:37 -0700 (PDT), "Ron D."
<ron.dozier@gmail.com> wrote:

>So, rotators are really foreign to Samsung.

Yep. I fired up my Samsung P2570HD TV and got an unpleasant surprise:
<https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001335>
When I scanned for active channels, it didn't find any channels. I
tried it several times, on several antennas, and got the same results.
No channels. Since the HDMI, composite, VGA, and DVI inputs all work
normally, my guess(tm) is the tuner is blown.

Looking at the available scan settings, it gets even stranger. I can
add a channel manually, but there doesn't seem to be any way to remove
a channel. Of course, since I can't test it, I'm sure about this.
Offhand, I would say you're correct, that Samsung doesn't make it easy
to use a rotator or multiple antennas.

That tuner is just plain weird because I need the physical channel
re-scan for virtual channels and it only reports the center frequency.
In the ATSC specs there is a center frequency field and sometimes
it's wrong.

Is the virtual channel number correct? Does it even have a virtual
channel number?

>The $1000 tuner can;t do Daylight Savings Time properly,

The US congress critters tweaked the beginning and end of DST in order
to somehow save energy in 2007. Many devices didn't clean up their
DST act for many years after that.

nor can it do the EPG properly. Incidentally, this
http://auroramultimedia.com/products/vtune-pro-4k/ is the high
end tuner. It has other quirks too.

If it does IPTV, it must surely do NTP (network time protocol) which
includes proper DST shifts. I don't think there's a single device
available that does EPG (electronic program guide) without bugs, added
monthly costs, or both. However, don't blame the guide vendor.
Stations often change their programming at the last moment for odd
reasons (sponsor pressure, current events, ongoing disaster coverage,
etc).

I think a big issue for them is cable cards fell out of favor or
don't exist anymore.

It didn't "fall out of favor". It was massacred by the cable
companies, who preferred to rake in the cash from equipment leases
than to allow the GUM (great unwashed masses) to own their own
equipment. Never mind that the FCC ordered the availability of user
owned cable equipment. Comcast also made it look like a frontal
attack on Tivo, who is the major beneficiary in CableCard based
installations. Incidentally, Comast raised the price of them allowing
a CableCard from about $2/month to $10 or $15/month (I couldn't find
the exact price) so as to be equal with the cost of leasing a set top
box. So much for affordable.

It's grand scheme of things is to put the output on an IPTV/RF
modulator so I can watch on my laptop. I just haven't got there yet.

RF Modulator? That's rather low quality video if fed from composite
video. What most users want is the ability to record HD programming
without DRM issues. A CableCard in a tuner can do that if digitized
video can be delivered via ethernet (thus avoiding the encrypted HDMI
problem). No, I won't tell you how to do it.

As another ASIDE (sorry), I want a way to take analog L/R and
upconvert to AC3 5.1 in a "Audio Only" TV mode over HDMI, so I
can put an AM/FM tuner on an ATSC channel.

Why bother? Most OTA radio stations also stream over the internet.
Just point your web browsers to the stations URL and you have
streaming AM/FM audio on the laptop. However, if you do find a
station that does NOT stream, just plug an RTL2832U plus R820T2 SDR
receiver dongle into a USB port, run one of a dozen receiver control
programs, and you have an AM/FM/ham/WX/scanner/whatever receiver.
<https://learn.adafruit.com/getting-started-with-rtl-sdr-and-sdr-sharp/sdr-number-fm-radio>

Sigh. Topic drift at it's best.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Ron D.]

Offhand, I would say you're correct, that Samsung doesn't make it easy
to use a rotator or multiple antennas.

Oops, for your Samsung.

Is the virtual channel number correct? Does it even have a virtual
channel number?

Virtual is fine. In the details (MENU) In the DTV signal strength have:

freq: off air 57.00 MHz
Power level and s/n with weak Normal type things. ss in dbm and s/n in db

In Manual scan, I'm asked to enter the "Channel Number" which is the physical one.

DST: It had already changed this year at 10 PM, not 2 AM.

EPG: My Bad, the remote labels it as such. It would be what's gonna happen on the current channel. That's totally part of the ATSC signal. It messes up a few hours before midnight. It's like 11:37 pm and it has programs that start at 12:30. After midnight it gets lots more. Another $50 government box works.

It's not the Master EPG programming schedule for all channels.

cable card- Yep.

RF Modulator? Sort of. One of these: http://english.dsdvb.com/Upload/files/Encoder%20Modulator/NDS3542A/3EEECN_20150304024149.pdf

4 channels of 4K HD video on 4 RF channels and 4 IP TV channels. Right now my wired Ethernet is too slow and wireless is even slower. I have not tried to see the RF output but I did measure a decent BER and signal strength on a test instrument w/o video)

Streaming: two-foldRF Modulator?

Be able to watch ATSC TV on the laptop (Slingbox like

AM/FM or anything L/R to HDMI ATSC Audio only in AC3 or Dolby Digital.

The smart TV does have a web browser, but you can't tell the TV to just do audio. You end up with a web browser screen with audio. For video the Samsung won't do Flash. ATSC TV's with converter boxes are everywhere in the house.
My elderly Mom likes AM radio and can't yet operate the TV that detailed. She can't at this point watch youtube on the TV to watch the Sunday Mass.

Like I said, the TV is really dumb. A wireless USB keyboard won't work on youtube. Well,the arrows work, but the characters don't. They blame the app maker - i.e. Google for this. Nearly useless or DUMB!

 

Jeff Liebermann wrote: "
The US congress critters tweaked the beginning and end of DST in order
to somehow save energy in 2007. Many devices didn't clean up their
DST act for many years after that. "


Most of Congress probably believes
Daylight Saving adds daylight! Remmber:
they don't read what they pass.

DST actually increases overall energy
consumption, but lazy people like it
because it delays sunrise and they can
stay up later and sleep in.

 

[None]

< thekma @ drooling . retard . com > wrote in message
news:a04fdc1d-ff0f-4341-a950-e9251414ffde@googlegroups.com...
> DST

Theckmaaaaah the village idiot starts flogging a dead hobbyhorse
again! (not even in season ...)

actually increases overall energy
consumption,

retarded phony info that theckmah plucked from his festering rectum

but lazy people like it
because it delays sunrise and they can
stay up later and sleep in.

The brain damage is obvious. Understanding daylight saving time
involves understanding simple numbers, but when it comes to simple
numbers, Theckkkahhhmaaammmaaaah is a simpleton retard.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 7 May 2017 03:48:18 -0700 (PDT), thekmanrocks@gmail.com wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote: "
The US congress critters tweaked the beginning and end of DST in order
to somehow save energy in 2007. Many devices didn't clean up their
DST act for many years after that. "

Most of Congress probably believes
Daylight Saving adds daylight! Remmber:
they don't read what they pass.

Maybe, but most voters also don't read the various initiatives and
referendums on which they vote. Worse, few voters could recite the
names of their local government representatives, as well as whom and
what they represent and advocate. It's the blind leading the blind.

So, why does representative government still work? Because elected
representatives have staff to read through the various measures and
deal with the constituency. Afterwards, they provide a very
simplified summary for the representative to read and digest.

DST actually increases overall energy
consumption, but lazy people like it
because it delays sunrise and they can
stay up later and sleep in.

There have been various research projects, few of which seem to be
objective and unbiased. One of the more comical that I read was a
survey of families paid to change their clocks according to the old
DST system, and then comparing energy consumption only in the
approximately two months that were involved in the change. If I find
a link, I'll post it. The results were almost random, but that was
apparently fixed by carefully cherry picking the data from those who
most closely followed the test guidelines. Some tests and surveys:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#Energy_use>
I think this might be it:
"The United States Department of Energy (DOE) concluded in
a 2008 report that the 2007 United States extension of DST
saved 0.5% of electricity usage during the extended period.
[90] This report analyzed only the extension, not the full
eight months of DST, and did not examine the use of heating
fuels."

Perhaps we can escape the horrors of DST by getting away from the
rigid 8 hr work day, and replacing it with a 6 hr winter work day, and
a 12 hr summer work day, when there are more hours of sunlight.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

Jeff Liebermann wrote: "
"The United States Department of Energy (DOE) concluded in
a 2008 report that the 2007 United States extension of DST
saved 0.5""

The DOE can publish any conclusions that
the utilties find favor with.

"Perhaps we can escape the horrors of DST by getting away from the
rigid 8 hr work day, and replacing it with a 6 hr winter work day, and
a 12 hr summer work day, when there are more hours of sunlight. "


Perhaps we can escape the horrors
of DST by shifting business hours
earlier in the day. '9 to 5' makes a
nice song on the radio, but it wastes
a lot of early morning daylight. I
personally would quickly embrace
an 8-4 first shift, so the workday
is rarely ever impinged upon by
darkness.

Getting folks to go to bed before
midnight is another challenge,
however.

 

[rickman]

On 5/1/2017 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 01:42:17 -0700 (PDT), stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

My point was he might be able to use multiple antennas with diplexers
and get one overall feed that could be treated like the cable company
- all channels available all the time with no adjusting.
G˛

Nope. A few problems:

1. A diplexer splits the frequencies between VHF and UHF channels. If
one antenna is VHF and the other is UHF, it will work, but only if the
stations in one direction are all VHF and the other direction are UHF.
Methinks that's unlikely to happen.

2. If you replace the diplexer with a combiner/splitter, you
theoretically can get both VHF and UHF signals from both antennas at
the same time without switching. I think that's what you're
suggesting. However, that doesn't work because the same signals are
picked up by both antenna at the same time. If the signal are in
phase, then the signals combine and you get good reception. If
they're 180 degrees out of phase, you get cancellation and no signal.
However, that's an over-simplification. What really happens is that
the signal is 6 MHz wide and the phase cancellation varies with
frequency. Some of the 6 MHz wide frequency range gets added, but
other frequencies in this range get cancelled. The result is a very
rocky and erratic frequency response which makes an ugly mess of the
signal. Bad idea.

Phase issues are easy to deal with. Co-locate the antennas so the
signals are in phase and use the same length of cable between each
antenna and the combiner. Now all frequencies are always in phase. A
short run to the mast mounted amp and you are done.

3. You can make it work with two antennas in two directions using a
coax switch. Only one antenna is connected at a time so there is no
interaction. You might need two coax cables from the mast to the TV
where the switch is located. Or, you can setup a remote antenna
switch. Or, you can setup a cross-over switch and two receivers,
where you can record on one receiver/antenna combination, while
viewing on the other.

--

Rick C

 

[Ron D.]

I don't like the new DST schedule because it gets dark when it's time to do yard work during the weekday.

 

Ron D wrote: "
8:04 PMRon D.
I don't like the new DST schedule because it gets dark when it's time to do yard work during
the weekday. "

?

DST in United States runs from second
Sunday in March to first Sunday in
November. Clocks are +1 hour during
that entire period. 'Noon' is at 1pm
(by the clock) during that period.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 17:04:46 -0700 (PDT), "Ron D."
<ron.dozier@gmail.com> wrote:

>I don't like the new DST schedule because it gets dark when it's time to do yard work during the weekday.

At this time, sunset on the left coast is at about 8PM.
<https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/santa-cruz>
You do yard work at that 8PM? If you must mow in the dark, just add
headlights to your lawn mower.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Tim R]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:04:51 PM UTC-4, Ron D. wrote:
> I don't like the new DST schedule because it gets dark when it's time to do yard work during the weekday.

Remember, the moon is much more useful than the sun.

The moon gives light in the night, when it's actually needed.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 4:18:06 PM UTC-4, Tim R wrote:

Remember, the moon is much more useful than the sun.

The moon gives light in the night, when it's actually needed.

It is this sort of reasoning that explains the American Political System.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Ron D.]

it's the fall change back that bothers me, not the summer one, but now it doesn't matter because 5:30 PM doesn't mean what it used to. "Home from work and it's dark".

 

Ron D:

So you don't like Standard time, when 12pm
corresponds with noon. Ok, well see about
getting up earlier, and if your job offers an
earlier shift, like 8-4 or something. I am
the only person in America I know who
wouldn't mind 4:30 sunrises where I live,
in June! I would actually be up at that
time, doing errands around the house.
I'm normally in bed by 8 anyway, which
it actually is right now - even though the
clocks all say 9pm.

 

[None]

< theckkkmaah @ retard . shortbus . edu > took a steaming dump>
> So you don't like Standard time, <FLUUUUUUSH>

Theckhhhmah, you retarded dumbfuck! You're one of usenet's village
idiots, and you just cannot stop flogging the rotted corpse of your
DST hobbyhorse (that's DST; look it up if you have to). But it's dead.
It's bleeding demised.

Maybe you can get a grownup to adjust your clocks twice a year, if
you're just too stupid to do it yourself. You keep telling people when
they should wake up and when they should go to sleep. Maybe you should
just worry about your own pathetic life, and stop being so fucking
lazy. Nobody wants to live their lives according to some retarded
schedule dreamed up by a microcephalic dumbfuck like you. Just live on
TDT (Theckmahhh Dumbfuck Time), that's fine, as long as you're ready
and wearing your hockey helmet when the short bus comes to take you to
your job at the hire-the-retard used crap store.

SFH, LB, FCKWAFA AOCADFR. RLB? LB???

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I don't think there's a single device available that does EPG
(electronic program guide) without bugs, added monthly costs, or
both. However, don't blame the guide vendor. Stations often change
their programming at the last moment for odd reasons (sponsor
pressure, current events, ongoing disaster coverage, etc).

The original EPG was a service provided by United Video
Cablevision's microwave division. Their computers were in Tulsa OK, and
they were linked to their WGN uplink in Chicago by a pair of leased
phone lines. One pair fed the data North to Chicago, while the second
echoed it back to their PDP -11 computers in Tulsa OK. It was
transmitted on a subcarrier along with WGN to CATV headends across the
country. The demod and processor was a 6502 based rack mounted computer
that put out NTSC color video. I got into a very heated argument with
the head of our Microwave division, as I told him how to uplink the
signal from the computer site, but leave it on the WGN transponder. He
told me it was impossible, so I told him that if he couldn't do it, he
should quit his job. Two months later, they announced the change, and
that HIS idea was saving the company over $15K per month for the leased
lines.


--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)